National Slave Rememberance Day
"I have found that, to make a contented slave, it is necessary to make
a thoughtless one. It is necessary to darken his moral and mental
vision, and, as far as possible, to annihilate the power of reason. He
must be able to detect no inconsistencies in slavery; he must be made to
feel that slavery is right; and he can be brought to that only when he
ceases to be a man."
Frederick Douglass
Okay, there I was, driving down Six-and-a-half Station Road, less than a mile from where I live, listening to some satellite radio station, when I heard an ad that almost made me lose control of the vehicle. Some unnamed, idiotic right wing group (they're all pretty idiotic - just in case you've never noticed) wants me to contact my local representative in the congress (that would be Sean Patrick Maloney) and DEMAND that he passes a law that designates the third Tuesday of every November as - I'm not kidding - NATIONAL ENTREPRENEURS DAY!!! So help me Mitch Miller, these jackasses want to set aside a national holiday that honors the sacrifice made by Donald Trump.
Why November - a month that already has Veterans Day and Thanksgiving? Why not make it in August, June or April - three neglected months of the year that have no holidays whatsoever? Could the reason be that November the first is the birthday of Charles Koch? I wonder. The ad on the radio that almost caused me to hit a herd of innocent deer that were grazing in a field to my right, instructed me to remember the people "who built" this grand and glorious land of ours.
Come again?
If we're going to honor the people "who built" America, let's get it right, shall we? Tell you what; the next time you're walking past the White House or the Capital in Washington, ask yourself the following question:
Who built that?
Both of those buildings were built by human beings who were being held in bondage - slaves.
I've got a dandy idea: How 'bout a national holiday to coincide with the weekend closest to August 16 (my birthday but that's only coincidental - HONEST!) that would have us take pause and pay tribute to the people who really built America. The plutocracy does not need their own special day of remembrance. Every single day is a jolly holiday for those who don't need to work. Think about it!
National Billionaires Day is a mind-bogglingly stupid idea. National Slave Remembrance Day is an idea long overdue. This ain't rocket science, kids.
People who have more money than they know what to do with don't need to be honored for having the talent (or the luck) to make all that cash. How do you think Donald Trump became as rich as he is? Certainly brilliance had nothing to do with it. Have you ever seen the guy being interviewed? The Donald is an idiot. How was he able to accumulate his wealth? He inherited it from his father. Why should we honor Donald Trump in the same way we used to honor George Washington and Abraham Lincoln? (It's now called "Presidents Day" in honor of all presidents. That would include George W. Bush).
National Slave Remembrance Day is not only an idea whose time has come, it's positively shameful that it hasn't been established as a national holiday as of yet. Am I the first person to come up with the idea? I couldn't be! Only a century-and-a-half separates us from the time when human beings were treated like cattle in "the land of the free". In terms of the history of the human race, a hundred and fifty years is but a millisecond. On the day that I was born there were about one-hundred people still living who were born into slavery. The last veteran of the Civil War passed away a year after I was born - and I'm not that old....WELL I"M NOT!!!
Oh the sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home
'Tis summer and the darkies are gay....
Stephen Foster
It's not quite like it was in the movies, folks. Hatttie McDaniel was an actress (and a damned good one). She was not a historian. The image of slap-happy, banjo-playin' ol' Uncle Tom - shufflin' along 'n' yacking it up 'n' chompin' on that watermelon - is a fantasy straight out of the mind and morals of Cliven Bundy. Just to refresh your memory, he is the Nevada rancher who recently made the incredible statement that "Negroes" were better off as slaves. A lot of people who call themselves "conservatives" have the silliest notions when it comes to African Americans. Have you ever noticed that?
So what do you think? This coming August 16 - and every August the sixteenth from here to eternity - shall be recognized as "National Slave Remembrance Day". And if the right wing crazies freak out about the idea (as surely they will), we must explain that it'll be a good deal for them in two ways:
First (and foremost): they'll have yet another thing they'll be able to bitch and moan about and....
Second: We'll all have another excuse to have a barbeque and get rip-roaring drunk! WHOOPEE!
I'm telling you, it's a win/win situation!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
AFTERTHOUGHT:
One of my bragging rights is that I once met Maya Angelou. God rest her soul. There will never be another one like her.
SUGGESTED READING:
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
by Maya Angelou
Weep no more, my lady.
Frederick Douglass
 |
| Frederick Douglass |
Why November - a month that already has Veterans Day and Thanksgiving? Why not make it in August, June or April - three neglected months of the year that have no holidays whatsoever? Could the reason be that November the first is the birthday of Charles Koch? I wonder. The ad on the radio that almost caused me to hit a herd of innocent deer that were grazing in a field to my right, instructed me to remember the people "who built" this grand and glorious land of ours.
Come again?
If we're going to honor the people "who built" America, let's get it right, shall we? Tell you what; the next time you're walking past the White House or the Capital in Washington, ask yourself the following question:
Who built that?
Both of those buildings were built by human beings who were being held in bondage - slaves.
National Billionaires Day is a mind-bogglingly stupid idea. National Slave Remembrance Day is an idea long overdue. This ain't rocket science, kids.
 |
| Donald's bad hair life |
National Slave Remembrance Day is not only an idea whose time has come, it's positively shameful that it hasn't been established as a national holiday as of yet. Am I the first person to come up with the idea? I couldn't be! Only a century-and-a-half separates us from the time when human beings were treated like cattle in "the land of the free". In terms of the history of the human race, a hundred and fifty years is but a millisecond. On the day that I was born there were about one-hundred people still living who were born into slavery. The last veteran of the Civil War passed away a year after I was born - and I'm not that old....WELL I"M NOT!!!
Oh the sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home
'Tis summer and the darkies are gay....
Stephen Foster
So what do you think? This coming August 16 - and every August the sixteenth from here to eternity - shall be recognized as "National Slave Remembrance Day". And if the right wing crazies freak out about the idea (as surely they will), we must explain that it'll be a good deal for them in two ways:
First (and foremost): they'll have yet another thing they'll be able to bitch and moan about and....
Second: We'll all have another excuse to have a barbeque and get rip-roaring drunk! WHOOPEE!
I'm telling you, it's a win/win situation!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
AFTERTHOUGHT:One of my bragging rights is that I once met Maya Angelou. God rest her soul. There will never be another one like her.
SUGGESTED READING:
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
by Maya Angelou
Weep no more, my lady.
posted by Tom Degan @ 4:27 AM
80 comments
80 Comments:
It's a magnificent idea. Surely people like Stevie Wonder, among many others, could and would get behind it, too.
Far, far too few Americans recognize slavery for what it was and did in this country. Too few know about it, even fewer acknowledge it. Fantastic idea. Let's get this started somehow.
Mo Rage
the blog
Who'd argue with that? Any attempt to even remotely hint at justifying the slave trade is asinine.
Amazing Grace is a wonderful movie - one of my favorites. I highly recommend it. Though not directly about the American slave trade, certainly a tribute to a good man who fought against one of the worst injustices ever perpetrated by mankind. Historically, it has some flaws, but not too bad, and artistically well done. Wilberforce is a personal hero of mine.
Tom,
You're really reaching on this one. Playing the anti-capitalist, race card in order to duck the VA and prisoner exchange failures? Sure sounds like it.
I would suggest you take Mozart's advice and "stop whining"! Save whining for after the NOV election.
I wouldn't expect a show of collective conscience from our mammon-worshiping culture. An outsider could easily assume judging from our corporate media schlock and Con-servative power-elites that our god is wealth, and our prophets are the wealthy. There's reason why the Kochs and Wall Street are more represented in government than 99% of Americans.
Here’s an interesting study that the Radical Right Bubble Cult will ignore:
Testing Theories of American Politics:
Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
Despite the seemingly strong empirical support in previous studies for theories of majoritarian democracy, our analyses suggest that majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts… When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy."
Susie Q,
"Acting like a third grade asshole" has been our mammon-serving Chuckie the Troll's continuing MO. He cannot change, and that is a good thing for our reference purposes. His character, or lack thereof, illustrates the core of radical Right con-servatism, as noted by the above observation.
I think I touched a nerve.
I think I touched a nerve.
No, you didn't, but isn't that the mission of trolls?
You were asked a question. "Why don't you start your own blog?"
Trolls don't answer questions, do they?
Wow, I knew Chuckie was an asshat, but....wow.
Well you have to admit Tom's topic (an ad heard on satellite radio) is not exactly front page news, but the VA scandal is.
Didn't President Obama in a speech recently encourage Americans to work hard and didn't he just praise ENTREPRENEURS?
I look at my post as doing liberals a service by allowing them to vent their frustration and rage from the current administrations failures
Susie Q am I on topic enough for you now?.
Chucky, can't you get past your latest made up scandal for 5 minutes? Jeez, man...
Besides, the VA has been a mess since it started, and it's not like Bush didn't dump about 10,000 new customers on them all at once. Stop BLAMING Obama for everything, you look like an idiot.
Exactly, Mozart, the VA has been a mess since the beginning. That's why we expect government-run healthcare to be a success. I understand the thought-process now...
Harley,
That's why we expect government-run healthcare to be a success
Sarcasm noted. Also note the real successes.
Please don't ignore the millions of vets who have greatly benefited by the VA, and still need it.
It HAS been a successful program and it is wanted, OK?
We know you guys on the Right are obsessed by, and choose to focus on, the negative issues, but show some perspective.
Don't ignore the fact your corporate-run healthcare dropped all those people due to prior conditions. Not a peep of outrage for that form the Right. Why is that? "You're on your own" is their attitude.
Most Americans, even the ones who hate Obama and the rest of his agenda, appreciate Obamacare for addressing that problem. Do you, like the Kochs, want to throw away ALL government involvement in health care?
We the people want it. The same is true for Medicare, Medicaid, and unemployment compensation. MOST Americans like and want these public programs and safety nets, no matter what other ideological beliefs they may have.
Cutting the VA and other govt healthcare programs is not the answer is it? Or do you believe the magical god "free market" will take care of the sick and injured? The Kochs and the Right would rather the sick and injured be "on their own".
Fixing and funding are the solutions. But that requires good faith efforts and compromise.
And we all know compromise, as well as public health programs, are obscenities to the far Right.
That is the real problem, and no good will come of it.
Mozart, you are correct.
We can't blame Obama for anything, after all, we knew had had no experience when we hired him.
86% of US troops wounded in Afghanistan were wounded under Obama in his 6 years as Commander and Chief vs Bush in 8 years.
"Chucky, can't you get past your latest made up scandal for 5 minutes?" Mozart
PHOENIX (AP) — In a new revelation in the growing VA scandal, the organization’s acting head says that an additional 18 veterans whose names were kept off an official electronic Veterans Affairs appointment list have died.
Acting VA Secretary Sloan Gibson said Thursday that he would ask the inspector general to see if there is any indication those deaths were related to long wait times. If so, they would reach out to those veterans’ families.
“I will come personally and apologize to the survivors,” Gibson said.
Why would Gibson apologize for my "made up scandal"?
86% of US troops wounded in Afghanistan were wounded under Obama in his 6 years as Commander and Chief vs Bush in 8 years.
Since Chuckie likes stats, let’s compare the tallies from the two wars Bush started.
Bush’s war of choice for political gain and crony profit in Iraq:
4,486 Dead by 2012
32,223 Wounded by 2011
This blood is entirely on the Bush/ Cheney gang of liars and traitors.
Afghanistan:
2,324 Dead by June 2014
17,674 Wounded by June 2014
These wasted lives are on both Bush and Obama’s hands.
Only in the demented and delusional minds of the radical Right can Obama be entirely to blame for the problems of an over-loaded and underfunded VA.
But there's nothing they like more than to "blame the black guy".
Not that I'm saying they're racists. Nosiree. They just like to give the White guy a pass.
That's all, really. Amirite?
"Bush’s war of choice for political gain and crony profit in Iraq"
Support this claim, if you can.
DD -
Yes, I was mainly yanking Mozart's chain, but...
Here's the thing. Neither government nor private enterprise is going to be perfect. My general tendency is to prefer the private sector running the show with the right amount of regulation/oversight/enforcement by gov't. The government has an abysmal track record of managing... well, much of anything efficiently. In fact, they don't do a great job at oversight, either. That doesn't mean they don't have a role - certainly they do. We don't have EPA, for example, going into the pollution control business... That's all. But, until business and government are decoupled, it isn't really worth discussing as it's an academic exercise in futility...
Harley,
until business and government are decoupled
Won't happen. Big Business has and will continue to dominate our government.
Note example below.
Chuckie,
Support this claim, if you can.
Dare to read the truth if you can.
Why the war in Iraq was fought for Big Oil
Before the 2003 invasion, Iraq's domestic oil industry was fully nationalized and closed to Western oil companies. A decade of war later, it is largely privatized and utterly dominated by foreign firms.
From ExxonMobil and Chevron to BP and Shell, the West's largest oil companies have set up shop in Iraq. So have a slew of American oil service companies, including Halliburton, the Texas-based firm Dick Cheney ran before becoming George W. Bush's running mate in 2000.
"Of course it's about oil; we can't really deny that," said Gen. John Abizaid, former head of U.S. Central Command and Military Operations in Iraq, in 2007. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan agreed, writing in his memoir, "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil." Then-Sen. and now Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the same in 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are."
For the first time in about 30 years, Western oil companies are exploring for and producing oil in Iraq from some of the world's largest oil fields and reaping enormous profit.
These outcomes were by design, the result of a decade of U.S. government and oil company pressure. In 1998,Kenneth Derr, then CEO of Chevron, said, "Iraq possesses huge reserves of oil and gas-reserves I'd love Chevron to have access to." Today it does.
In 2000, Big Oil, including Exxon, Chevron, BP and Shell, spent more money to get fellow oilmen Bush and Cheney into office than they had spent on any previous election. Just over a week into Bush's first term, their efforts paid off when the National Energy Policy Development Group, chaired by Cheney, was formed, bringing the administration and the oil companies together to plot our collective energy future. In March, the task force reviewed lists and maps outlining Iraq's entire oil productive capacity.
Planning for a military invasion was soon under way.
At the same time, representatives from ExxonMobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Halliburton, among others, met with Cheney's staff in January 2003 to discuss plans for Iraq's postwar industry. For the next decade, former and current executives of western oil companies acted first as administrators of Iraq's oil ministry and then as "advisers" to the Iraqi government.
Did you read this? Clear enough?
Now read this:
“One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief. My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it. If I have a chance to invade…, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency.” – George W. Bush 1999
Claim supported. Mission accomplished. Chuckie still in denial.
The photography in your post inspired me. We should also have a National Bad Hair Day to honor powerful despots and idiots around the world who bad hair: Donald Trump, Kim Jong Un,and without ever having laid eyes on him, betcha Chuckie Morre is an eyesore, too.
On National Bad Hair Day America would close down and do no work to symbolize the uselessness of people like Trump. There would be a Shave Your Head parade. People would demonstrate their festive participation by wearing hair nets.
Also, people like Chuckie would get giant hair balls shoved down their throats and then have catnip toys thrown at them.
Oh, and on that day the sale of pocket combs would be outlawed.
Yours crankily,
The New YOrk Crank
Thanks for the enlightenment Dave.
Now about the topic at hand, IE Tom's post.
What is Tom's point other than to rant against the same targets of his unhappiness?
I'm not blaming or not blaming anyone, anything based on their race. That's simply false and nothing more than you playing the race card. Remember:
"We can't blame Obama for anything, after all, we knew he had no experience when we hired him."
Does that sound like I'm blaming the "black guy"?
"We can't blame Obama for anything, after all, we knew he had no experience when we hired him."
Does that sound like I'm blaming the "black guy"?
Yes, how much Presidential or national security experience did Bush Jr have when he started two disastrous wars he couldn't finish?
Give the white guy a pass, right?
So did you read the support for my claim?
"Support this claim, if you can."
Dave, you did a masterful job of supporting the claim that the Bush admin took us to war for profit, a crime of high treason if there ever was one.
I find Chucks response patronizing and condescending at the same time, and how the hell does he trivialize treason?
I find it fascinating that you are able to out debate him and he seems unconscious of it!
Mr. Hanson, would you care to address this, my last post to you, that you have not answered?
"Look at all the drug ads on TV." James Hansen
What does the govt have to do with ads run on t.v.?
"If you would like to see less lawbreakers in this country all you have to do is get rid of stupid laws." James Hansen
Can we use that logic for current gun laws and regulations?
Would I be correct in saying you believe the solution to the problem of laws being broken is to do away with the laws? Tell me what that would look like from your view point."
I find it fascinating that I am able to out debate you and you seem unconscious of it!
Dave,
There are other reasons why we went to war against Iraq.
1. 9/11 and the 1991 Gulf War. The Bush administration made the argument that in the post-9/11 climate there should be a belated reckoning with Saddam Hussein. He had continued to sponsor terrorism, had over the years invaded or attacked four of his neighbors, and had killed tens of thousands of his own people. He was surely more a threat to the region and to his own people than either Bashar Assad or Moammar Qaddafi was eight years later.
2. Afghanistan. A second reason was the rapid victory in the war in Afghanistan immediately following 9/11. Scholars and pundits had warned of disaster on the eve of the October 2001 invasion. Even if it was successful in destroying the rule of the Taliban, any chance of postwar stability was declared impossible, given the “graveyard of empires” reputation of that part of the world. But the unforeseen eight-week war that with ease removed the Taliban, and the nonviolent manner in which the pro-Western Hamid Karzai later assumed power, misled the administration and the country into thinking Iraq would be a far less challenging prospect — especially given Iraq’s humiliating defeat in 1991, which had contrasted sharply with the Soviet failure in Afghanistan.
3. Everyone on board. A third reason was the overwhelming bipartisan support in Congress, in the media, and among the public — for reasons well beyond WMD. In October 2002, both houses of Congress passed 23 writs justifying the removal of Saddam, an update of Bill Clinton’s 1998 Iraq Liberation Act. Senators Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Harry Reid were among those who not only enthusiastically called for Saddam’s removal, but also warned of intelligence estimates of Saddam’s WMD arsenals. Pundits on both sides, from Thomas Friedman to George Will, likewise supported the invasion, which on the eve of the war enjoyed over 70 percent approval from the American people. Bush, in that regard, had achieved what Clinton had not on the eve of the Serbian War — he had obtained a joint resolution of support from Congress before attacking, and had taken nearly a year in concerted (though failed) attempts to win U.N. approval for Saddam’s removal.
Continued
4. WMD. A fourth reason was the specter of WMD. The Bush administration apparently believed that, without the worry over WMD, the other writs would not generate enough public urgency for preemption, and thus it would not have invaded Iraq. Note that when Barack Obama talks of “red lines” and “game changers” in Syria that might justify U.S. preemptive action, he is not referring to 70,000 dead, the horrific human-rights record of Bashar Assad, Syria’s past effort to become nuclear, or even the plight of millions of Syrian refugees, but the supposition that Syria is planning to use chemical or biological weapons — a crime Saddam had often committed against his own people, and one that inflames public opinion in the West.
5. Nation-building. A fifth reason was the notion of reformulating Iraq, so that instead of being the problem in the region it would become a solution. Since the 1991 war had not ended well, because of a failure to finish off the regime and stay on, and since the aid to the insurgents against the Soviets in Afghanistan had been followed by U.S. neglect and in time the rise of the Taliban, so, in reaction, this time the U.S. was determined to stay. We forget now the liberal consensus that the rise of the Taliban and the survival of Saddam were supposed reflections of past U.S. callousness — something not to be repeated in Iraq.
6. Oil! Sixth and last was the issue of oil. Had Iraq been Rwanda, the Bush administration would not have invaded. The key here, however, is to remember the war was not a matter of “blood for oil,” given that the Bush administration had no intention of taking Iraqi oil — a fact proven by the transparent and non-U.S. postwar development of the Iraqi oil and gas fields.
Instead, oil was an issue because Iraq’s oil revenues meant that Saddam would always have the resources to foment trouble in the region, would always be difficult to remove through internal opposition, and would always use petrodollar influence to undermine U.N. resolutions, seek to spike world oil prices, or distort Western solidarity, as the French collusion with Saddam attested. Imagine North Korea with Iraq’s gas and oil reserves: The problem it poses for its neighbors would be greatly amplified and far more likely addressed. Had Iraq simply been a resource-poor Yemen or Jordan, or landlocked without key access to the Persian Gulf, the U.S. probably would not have invaded
This comment has been removed by the author.
James:
I find it fascinating that you are able to out debate him and he seems unconscious of it!
Yeah, Chuckie pays no attention to the fact I shred his cult beliefs with sharp-edged reality. As the loyal authoritarian follower troll, he marches on without concern for truth.
Chuckie:
Mr. Hanson, would you care to address this, my last post to you, that you have not answered?
Note the utter obliviousness to his hypocrisy and double standards again. YOU have to answer his questions, HE never answers questions.
Isn’t he special?
Hey, Chuckie,
We know your language and writing skills are inadequate to have written that post. What Right Wing propagandist are you plagiarizing this time?
Dave you really are grasping at straws. I did answer Mr.Hansen's questions in Tom's earlier post. And I did respond to your thoughts about the Iraq war being fought over oil. I thanked you for them, even thought Mr. Hansen found displeasure with my response. Then I offered for your consideration other alternative reason for the war. See, this is how an adult discussion is held. YOU present your views, I present mine. I'm called names and told to shut the fuck up. I ask if I've touched a nerve, you call me a troll.
Isn't liberal debate grand and uplifting to human spirit?
Am I asking too much for Hansen to be held to the same standard to which you hold me?
And Dave, I'll answer you question about GWB experience, he was a Gov of a State, longer that our current President served in the Senate, GWB ran a business, hire people, paid people, provided for their healthcare and retirement, while our current President never worked a day in his life for a private business. GWB served in the military, while our current President was smoking pot. GWB fought his personal demons with alcohol and drugs, while our current President turns his back on our drug laws. We knew our current President had ZERO administrative experience on any level, we voted him in twice. You can't blame Obama for not having experience when we are the ones who put him in office knowing that.
Now about Tom's post,
I really wonder what is going to happen if it is every widely found out that our Civil War was fought for the most part over the issue of slavery and that the anti-slavery side won?
And that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed because of GOP votes?
Maybe Tom's on to something, lets have a "Slavery Appreciation Day" (SAD). Say July 5th, right after Independence Day! Maybe we can compare the conditions of those who lived in slavery to their heir's living conditions today? To celebrate SAD, we could put all white rich men (anyone making over $150,000 a year, but of course only on the private sector) in chains for 24 hours, work their butts off picking some plant from the fields, make them sleep on dirt floors, eat crappy food, and teach them to sing great gospel hymns.
I'd like to see a statistic comparing the source of income of the heirs of former saves to the source of income of Africans who later immigrated here, not brought here as slaves. Would you mind looking that up for me Dave, since looking up statistics seem to be your thing.
The we can have a "Hate the Rich Day" every April 16th, to celebrate the wealth the government has taken from anyone who does not receive income tax credits.
How about a Blame the White Guy Day? Think that would be a hit Dave? But should it be limited to just a day? Is a week enough or would a month be better. However long it would be, during that time, all rich Christian, heterosexual men would be required to wear a gold cross on the right sleeve of their shirt, or coat. The tattoos would come later.
The billionaire industrialist Koch brothers, known best for shepherding big money to conservative causes and candidates, have given a $25 million grant to the United Negro College Fund, the organization announced Friday.
The money will come from Koch Industries Inc. and the Charles Koch Foundation, which are headed by the brothers. Most of the money ($18.5 million) will go toward a scholarship program. The other $6.5 million is provided for general support to historically black colleges and universities and the UNCF, with $4 million set aside for loan assistance.
The UNCF is the nation’s largest minority education group.
“I taught constitutional law for ten years, I take the Constitution very seriously. The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse when I’m President” Senator Obama
Chuckie, Bush "served" in the Texas Guard where he later went AWOL. Not exactly a heroic carreer. He also smoked his share of pot and also used cocaine. His problems with alcohol are widely known, as is the fact that he failed at every business he was put in charge of. You BLAME the VA issues on Obama yet give Bush, hell REAGAN a pass! Obamacare is a great success in spite of every effort from the right to make sure it wasn't. As for those killed in Afghanistan, I'll refer you to who started that useless war in the first place.
As I noted and asked: “We know your language and writing skills are inadequate to have written that post. What Right Wing propagandist are you plagiarizing this time?”
Well?
Not disclosing the source, or claiming the words as your own, is dishonest. Is this your one sided moral relativism at work?
Then I offered for your consideration other alternative reason for the war. See, this is how an adult discussion is held. YOU present your views, I present mine.
This is lie. You plagiarized someone else’s words. And you cowardly dodge my simple question. (You excel at this) You have some nerve calling it a “debate” when you don’t know the first thing about what a debate is. You unilaterally define terms. You falsely present words that are NOT your own. And you don’t answer questions.
If this was a debate, you have lost on those grounds alone. You may as well have quoted Dick Cheney as your source for Bush/Cheney honesty. I bet it irks you that a Bush quote was used to support my claim.
OK, you gave “ other reasons” (not your own )for the war in Iraq. Good. That means the reasons I stated still stand.
If I were to debate the actual author of those words, I would begin by identifying him as the war-mongering, neo-con revisionist, loyal Bush supporter that he is.
From Wiki:
In 2007, he was awarded the National Humanities Medal by President George W. Bush. He was a strong defender of George W. Bush and his policies, especially the Iraq war. He was also a vocal supporter of Bush's Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Hanson wrote of Rumsfeld that he was: "a rare sort of secretary of the caliber of George Marshall" and a "proud and honest-speaking visionary" whose "hard work and insight are bringing us ever closer to victory".
He has argued that the US should take a much more confrontational stance towards Iran, advocating unilateral responses to the country. On the Hugh Hewitt show in August 2007, Hanson stated: "We really need to start doing some things beyond talking, and if that is going into Iranian airspace, or buzzing Iranians, or even starting to forget where the border is and taking out some of these training camps, we need to do that and send a message, because they’re a paper tiger. They really are”.
Now to those “other reasons”
1. “9/11 and the 1991 Gulf War. “
Bush demanded that Richard Clarke connect 9-11 to Saddam. There was no connection. Bush lied about Saddam having ties to, and aiding, al-Qaeda.
2. “Afghanistan. A second reason was the rapid victory in the war in Afghanistan immediately following 9/11.”
Oh, really? Don’t you think it odd that more Americans were killed after, rather than before, such a “victory” in Afghanistan, and the declaration of “mission accomplished” in Iraq?
3. “Everyone on board. …had he had no public support, or had he been opposed by the liberal press, he probably would not have invaded Iraq.”
I like this one. War is justified because most of us want it. How sane. He said support for the invasion “enjoyed over 70 percent approval from the American people”.
Impressive, right? And why did we want war again? That support was won by propaganda and lies. Much of which was unquestioned and parroted by the corporate media. Liberal voices in corporate media, like Phil Donahue’s, were silenced.
Let me show you how well the brainwashing worked:
Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
Posted 9/6/2003 8:10 AM
WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.
Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.
4.” WMD.”
Yes, we know about all those stockpiles of WMD’s that Liar Rummy assured us with, “We know where they are”.
5. “Nation-building.”
Right, The reason this lame excuse was never offered to the public was Bush ran for president saying he was opposed to nation-building. Another lie.
6. “Oil!“
Isn't it funny how this is last on the list?
Mozart,
I have not given Reagan or the Bush's a pass on anything. I focus on the here and now of a man who ran on hope and change, claiming if elected he would fix the problems he claimed he was inheriting. After 6 years it is painfully clear that Obama was unprepared and unequipped to fulfill his promises. I blame the voters for putting him in that position, as we knew his record before we voted for him. He can not be blamed for his lack of experience, it's our fault, we elected him. Period.
Further I do not need to focus on Reagan or Bush as that is the total consuming defensive reaction to any criticism or failure of Obama, blame Bush or Reagan by liberals. You do it for me. In my post I stated that GWB addictions were well know, no one is hiding them, just as his recovery is not hidden. On the issue of drug usage, problems, recovery and elections I would ask you to examine the history of Mayor Marion Barry of Washington DC for a comparison.
Your claim that Bush failed at every "business he was put in charge of" lacks supporting evidence. It's not true. Just the same as your claim that GWB went AWOL from the Air National Guard, both are based on wishful assumptions and lack solid proof to support.
I have no problem arguing the case for or against the War on Terror in Afghanistan and Iraq and the events leading up to the war if you are willing to discuss our STILL having troops in the Balkans put there by Clinton to fight without Congressional approval.
With 86% of the wounded in Afghanistan occurring during the 6 years of Obama vs the 8 years of GWB you want to pin the VA problems on someone else. BTW, wasn't it an Obama claim that we should have been fighting in Afghanistan?
Now about the subject of Tom's rant, can you tell me what is his point?
Dave,,
What is the point of Tom's rant?
What's that, Chuckie? You're asking me a question???
LOL!!
I still can't believe those stupid Republicans voted to investigate Benghazi! What morons!
This is the United States of AmeriKa! The most powerful country on Earth should not waste its time investigating silly, inconsequential things like murdered ambassadors, terrorist attacks, or presidential lies or cover-ups. DUDES, that was like two years ago!
We Democrats believe in investigating the Important Stuff: like traffic jams in New Jersey and rodeo clowns in Missouri. Traffic jams and racist rodeo clowns make a difference! Dead Americans? "What difference at this point does it make?"
This is why I always vote Democrat, because they care about the important stuff.
4,486 Dead Americans in Iraq? "What difference at this point does it make?"
Right, Chuckie Alinsky?
32,223 Wounded Americans in Iraq? "What difference at this point does it make?"
Right, Chuckie Alinsky?
I say let's investigate the lies and liars for war in Iraq as well as Benghazi. Fair enough, Chuckie Alinsky??
What's that you say??
"What difference at this point does it make?
I focus on the here and now
Is Benghazi "here and now"?
"What difference at this point does it make?"
So answer the question if it is so important...
LOL!!
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...
It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security.
This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction."
Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York)
Addressing the US Senate
October 10, 2002
How does that make Hillary sound liberal? LOL!
More proof Hillary is just another corporatist neocon.
If someone is attempting to imply that I am a supporter of Hillary Clinton, they obviously have not read a damned word I've written.
Tom,
The troll obviously has not read a damned word any of us has written. If he did, he'd hang his head in shame and beg forgiveness for his arrogance and wooden-headed ignorance.
Tom,
How about a rant about the Bowe Bergdahl trade?
The only way I would have been for the Bowe Bergdahl trade would have been if Obama had been one of the five!
Or..if Harry were honest, "The only way I would have been for the Bowe Bergdahl trade would have been if Bush had done it".
LOL Dave,
Even Bush is not that dumb enough to trade a US deserter for 5 Taliban leaders!
Why was Bowe's homecoming parade cancelled? Did the Koch brothers or Rush somehow prevent it?
What a dud your Messiah turned out to be Dave.
Harry...Bush got us involved in this unending, unwinable, "kick the can down the road to pay for" war in the first place. Dumb? What say you. Taliban leaders? Who told you that? When you were serving your country, what were you told about leaving a brother soldier behind? You talk trash. You probably heard that war is hell. Well it is. Real war. Not the one you're fighting from your chair.
"Is Benghazi "here and now"?
Compared to the use of the 8 years of Reagan and Bush as a moral comparison to Obama's six years of predictable failure, it sure is a lot more "here and now"!
And yes Dave I'm asking you a question, since I've answered yours. I am only doing what Susie (potty mouth) Q had commanded us to do "stay on topic".
Chucky, can you define how Obama is a "failure"? Would you like a complete list of his SUCCESSES?
Amazing ho9w chucky and his ilk can tiurn even a blog about slavery into a whinefest over Obama.
YOU LOST THE ELECTION GET OVER IT ALREADY.
And if the GOP keeps up the way it has been going, you better get used to losing.
Mozart,
Where is your post about slavery?
Chuckie,
So what you mean by "here and now" is actually from January 20, 2009 to the present.
Yeah, we get it.
So how is Benghazi more "here and now" than the ongoing effects of Bush's catastrophic failed wars and financial collapse?
Apart from continuing Bush's surveillance state and war in Afghanistan, what has Obama done that has had more negative effects than war for political gain and crony profit and a financial collapse of '08? You know, just a little bit before your destruction-of-language version of "here and now".
No effects? Never happened?
Please enlighten us how Obama has failed worse than Bush's wars and financial collapse.
is Benghazi a greater national disaster than two failed wars? Is the ACA worse than financial meltdown and destruction of pensions?
Seems like that is what you're saying, right?
Chucky, I also noticed you avoided defining Obama's "failures".
Nice try at deflection there though..
Dave, Mozart,
What are your thoughts about the subject of this week's rant from Tom?
All of a sudden Chuckie wants to talk about slavery for some reason...
...so he can cowardly dodge my question, of course. I guess he agrees that the war in Iraq for Bush's political "Capital" and crony profit was a disaster for America well beyond anyhting Obama has done...but he can't admit it.
Once again he's been nailed.
Run, Chicken Chuckie, run.
Not really Dave, I simply do not agree with the case you have made to support your position about the War in Iraq. I posted mine position and you disagreed with mine. So end of the story. I asked if you would like to discuss the troops that are still in the Balkans, sent there by Clinton. No response. So who's the chicken?
I figure one of us has to be the adult or this conversation will turn into name calling and casting aspersions. I've chose to see that we will not agree on this issue, nor will we be able to convince the other to change their position.
For you however, that same statement can not be made.
I explained my views and am trying to talk about the subject of our past history of slavery. You and Mozart do not seem to want to.
When you're ready to join the adult discussion, let us know.
So end of the story.
Not really. In the here and now and for years to come, we're still paying for Bush's war for crony profit and political capital.
In the here and now and for years to come veterans are suffering from Bush overloading the VA.
In the here and now and for years to come, Americans are still suffering the consequences of the Bush financial collapse.
So who's the chicken?
Most would say the one who runs away from questions is the chicken.
So end of the story.
I posted mine position
You still won't confess to plagiarizing another man's words.
RRBC character, or lack thereof, in plain view.
"Conservatives without Conscience" by John Dean explains your authoritarian follower personality quite clearly.
Neither name calling nor aspersions, the personality assessment is evidence-backed and valid.
When you're ready to join the adult discussion, let us know Dave.
And we have learned that shameless plagiarizing qualifies as "adult discussion" by Chicken Chuckie's examples.
I guess that means poor Chuckie is the only "adult" here.
Classic right wing authoritarian personality.
He NEVER did tell us how Benghazi is worse than Bush's two failed wars and financial collapse.
Run, Chuckie, run.
Harry Chuckie asked, "Why was Bowe's homecoming parade cancelled? Did the Koch brothers or Rush somehow prevent it?"
Gee, maybe he and his fellow radical right authoritarians have something to do with it.
Parents of Bowe Bergdahl receive death threats
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/bowe-bergdahl-parents-death-threats?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=%2AMorning%20Brief&utm_campaign=2014_MorningBrief6.9.2014
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dav,
When you are ready to join the adult discussion, let us know.
I love the latest lesson on “adult” behavior.
This 11:15 message from “just the facts Chuckie” was deleted:
Dave,
When you're ready to join the adult discussion, let us know Dave.
Or better still,
When you are ready to be an adult and join the discussion, let us know.
=
Then at 11:16 we see this from regular Chuckie:
Dav,
When you are ready to join the adult discussion, let us know.
=
Amazing how two “adults” think exactly alike, isn’t it?
Someone seems to be confusing “adult” with “authoritarian”.
Great examples of the dishonest authoritarian personality.
Time for “Tyrone Chuckie” to make his appearance and join “Harry Chuckie”, “just the facts Chuckie”, and regular Chuckie…LOL!!
Perhaps with their combined wisdom, they can teach us all how to lie, deceive and plagiarize like good little authoritarians, er, I mean adults
Just don't call any, or all, of the Chuckies a troll, though. That wouldn't be "adult". LOL!!!!!
Chicken Chuckie seems to be cowering again.
But his "Second Amendment Remedy" fellow "patriots" and Bundy Militia nuts were certainly active.
Shooters identified in slaying of Metro Police officers, bystander
Hours after a man and woman killed two police officers at an east Las Vegas pizza restaurant and then gunned down another victim at a nearby Wal-Mart before killing themselves, a picture of the shooters began to emerge.
Residents at an apartment complex where it appeared the two lived together said they had a reputation for spouting racist, anti-government views, bragging about their gun collection and boasting that they’d spent time at Cliven Bundy’s ranch during a recent standoff there between armed militia members and federal government agents.
The Lafayette (Ind.) Journal and Courier newspaper identified the couple this morning as Jerad and Amanda Miller.
According to one police official and a witness, one of the shooters shouted, “This is a revolution” and “We're freedom fighters.”
The Bundy Militia nuts also had an affinity for the tea party’s Gadsden flag. Who's surprised?
According to Las Vegas Review-Journal
Witnesses told police one of the shooters yelled “This is the start of a revolution” before shooting the officers. Gillespie later said he could not confirm that.
The shooters then stripped the officers of their weapons and ammunition and badges, according to a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. They then covered the officers with something that featured the Gadsden flag, a yellow banner with a coiled snake above the words, “Don’t tread on Me.”
We can be sure these kooks have spewed the same damn "Obama's a Marxist!", "Socialist liberals", and the rest of the usual hateful bullshit as our little Chicken Chuckie loves to preach.
I hope my reality checks haven't sent poor Chuckie over the edge. We could easily picture him going on a similar rampage when his consuming hate takes hold of him.
Vermont’s Bernie Sanders, Chairman of the Senate Veterans Committee, simply denounced the falsified records and excessive wait times in Phoenix as aberrations within an otherwise well functioning system.
His assurances that the VA “provides very high quality health care — period” and that now-deposed VA Secretary Eric Shinseki “has done a very good job” have been likened to statements by Baghdad Bob, the Iraqi government spokesman who insisted that a great victory was at hand even as American tanks rolled through his city.
"I hope my reality checks haven't sent poor Chuckie over the edge. We could easily picture him going on a similar rampage when his consuming hate takes hold of him."
That's over the line.
I'm about done with this blog if it's going to be the DD vs. Chuck show endlessly for every thread...
If you say so Harley. He and his camp are defending the militia nuts. GOP candidates are talking about "second amendment remedies" and I'm the one over the line.
Yup. Gotcha.
How about Chicken Chuckie's other ID's he hides behind? Either I'm way outnumbered or he's playing dishonestly.
But I'm the one out of line. Sure. Got it.
You see it how you choose to see it.
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