America Held Hostage
The people just don't matter - TICK....
The people just don't matter - TICK....
The people just don't matter - TICK....
The people just don't matter - TICK....
I'm hesitant to use the "sounding like a broken record analogy". In this digital age it's not likely that anyone born after 1986 will get it. But it's irresistible and apropos: In a move that is as transparent as it is outrageous, our Republican representatives are so desperate to take back the White House and the senate in 2012, they are within twenty-six days of sending the American economy - along with the American people - into the abyss. They appear to be under the impression that the electorate is so pathetically stupid they'll be able to get away with this. I think they might be on to something.
As the late, lamented Molly Ivins once cheerfully pointed out, putting people who don't believe in government in charge of government is generally not a particularly nifty idea. The Tea Party types who now pollute the halls of congress are practically giddy with anticipation at the very idea that the government of the United States of America could come crashing down in complete and utter destruction within months of defaulting on its international debts. Not a particularly nifty idea indeed. I miss Molly Ivins like nobody's business.
"I don't want to abolish government, I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
-Grover Norquist
This is what they (or their ideological descendants) been have been dreaming of since the dawn of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal seventy-eight years ago. We're within weeks of seeing their dreams coming into fruition. And you wanna hear the knee-slapper? When the mountain comes crashing down, the FOX Noise crowd will blame the liberals for the carnage! Isn't that a scream? Although it didn't get a lot of coverage in the press, July 3 marked the fortieth anniversary of the passing of Jim Morrison. As he once sang: "People are strange". They really are.
Mr. Herbert Hoover says that now's the time to buy
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!
They are t
elling us that the second of August is D Day as far as America's debt is concerned. If the debt ceiling is not raised by then - regardless of the validity of that date - America will be sending a signal to the rest of the world that is liable to bring on an economic catastrophe, If that happens the "party of Abraham Lincoln" will be in the enviable position of being able to portray Barack Obama as the twenty-first century's version of Herbert Hoover. What they are trying to do here is hold America hostage. The only way they will agree to the raising of the debt ceiling will be for the president to cease any attempt at "the job-killing tax hikes" on the very people and corporations who are responsible for the mess we are in to begin with. I think Obama ought to call their bluff and let the cow chips fall where they may as it were.
The right wing has been in serious denial throughout its long and weird history (You may recall the "peculiar institution" of slavery). Modern times are no different for these freaks. Here's what they need to (but won't) understand: America's financial affairs are in shambles. There is only one way out of the hole we have dug for ourselves - and it's going to involve taxes: Decades of SERIOUS taxation. The people who benefited the most from the thirty-year financial drunk - the Plutocracy - will be the ones who will have to bear the burden of the shovel. And that will mean bringing the tax rates for the richest two-percent back to where they during the Eisenhower era when many of them were in a ninety percent bracket. That is the only way out. Deal with it.
When the Bush Tax Cuts were granted a decade ago, they told us that it would create oodles of jobs. That didn't happen. In fact, instead of "trickling down" to the rest of us, the uber rich hoarded money that should have been reinvested into America's infrastructure. "Trickle down"? "Pissed on" would be a better way of describing it. The middle class is being obliterated. Schools are closing in certain parts of the nation. The government of the state of Minnesota has shut down - a nasty harbinger of things to come. We have one of two choices: Either make a hard turn to the left, or get used to living in a country in ruins.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
AFTERTHOUGHT:
Please forgive the nine-day lag between this piece and the last one. My computer was hit by a really nasty virus that necessitated sending it out to be repaired. All is well.
And speaking of Molly Ivins, here is a link to the eulogy I wrote to her on the night she died:
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2007/01/molly-ivins.html
Hope you're sleeping well, Molly.
UPDATE 7/11/11:
Yesterday on NBC's Meet The Press I almost spit out my coffee when I witnessed (with my own eyes, mind you) Tim Pawlenty brag to David Gregory that he was the first governor in the history of Minnesota to shut that state's government down.
If you don't believe me I can't say that I blame you in the least. I scarcely believe it myself. Life is interesting.
ALSO: Michele Bachmann is now the frontrunner in the Iowa polls. This is the same woman who recently signed a pledge that made this quaint observation: Black children were better off as slaves than they presently are under the administration of Barack Obama. Isn't that lovely?
Do you need any further proof that the "base" of that party is dumber than dog shit? Case closed.
As the late, lamented Molly Ivins once cheerfully pointed out, putting people who don't believe in government in charge of government is generally not a particularly nifty idea. The Tea Party types who now pollute the halls of congress are practically giddy with anticipation at the very idea that the government of the United States of America could come crashing down in complete and utter destruction within months of defaulting on its international debts. Not a particularly nifty idea indeed. I miss Molly Ivins like nobody's business.
"I don't want to abolish government, I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
-Grover Norquist
This is what they (or their ideological descendants) been have been dreaming of since the dawn of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal seventy-eight years ago. We're within weeks of seeing their dreams coming into fruition. And you wanna hear the knee-slapper? When the mountain comes crashing down, the FOX Noise crowd will blame the liberals for the carnage! Isn't that a scream? Although it didn't get a lot of coverage in the press, July 3 marked the fortieth anniversary of the passing of Jim Morrison. As he once sang: "People are strange". They really are.
Mr. Herbert Hoover says that now's the time to buy
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!
They are t
elling us that the second of August is D Day as far as America's debt is concerned. If the debt ceiling is not raised by then - regardless of the validity of that date - America will be sending a signal to the rest of the world that is liable to bring on an economic catastrophe, If that happens the "party of Abraham Lincoln" will be in the enviable position of being able to portray Barack Obama as the twenty-first century's version of Herbert Hoover. What they are trying to do here is hold America hostage. The only way they will agree to the raising of the debt ceiling will be for the president to cease any attempt at "the job-killing tax hikes" on the very people and corporations who are responsible for the mess we are in to begin with. I think Obama ought to call their bluff and let the cow chips fall where they may as it were.
The right wing has been in serious denial throughout its long and weird history (You may recall the "peculiar institution" of slavery). Modern times are no different for these freaks. Here's what they need to (but won't) understand: America's financial affairs are in shambles. There is only one way out of the hole we have dug for ourselves - and it's going to involve taxes: Decades of SERIOUS taxation. The people who benefited the most from the thirty-year financial drunk - the Plutocracy - will be the ones who will have to bear the burden of the shovel. And that will mean bringing the tax rates for the richest two-percent back to where they during the Eisenhower era when many of them were in a ninety percent bracket. That is the only way out. Deal with it.
When the Bush Tax Cuts were granted a decade ago, they told us that it would create oodles of jobs. That didn't happen. In fact, instead of "trickling down" to the rest of us, the uber rich hoarded money that should have been reinvested into America's infrastructure. "Trickle down"? "Pissed on" would be a better way of describing it. The middle class is being obliterated. Schools are closing in certain parts of the nation. The government of the state of Minnesota has shut down - a nasty harbinger of things to come. We have one of two choices: Either make a hard turn to the left, or get used to living in a country in ruins.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
AFTERTHOUGHT:
Please forgive the nine-day lag between this piece and the last one. My computer was hit by a really nasty virus that necessitated sending it out to be repaired. All is well.
And speaking of Molly Ivins, here is a link to the eulogy I wrote to her on the night she died:
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2007/01/molly-ivins.html
Hope you're sleeping well, Molly.
UPDATE 7/11/11:
Yesterday on NBC's Meet The Press I almost spit out my coffee when I witnessed (with my own eyes, mind you) Tim Pawlenty brag to David Gregory that he was the first governor in the history of Minnesota to shut that state's government down.
If you don't believe me I can't say that I blame you in the least. I scarcely believe it myself. Life is interesting.
ALSO: Michele Bachmann is now the frontrunner in the Iowa polls. This is the same woman who recently signed a pledge that made this quaint observation: Black children were better off as slaves than they presently are under the administration of Barack Obama. Isn't that lovely?
Do you need any further proof that the "base" of that party is dumber than dog shit? Case closed.
posted by Tom Degan @ 4:02 AM
98 comments
98 Comments:
Tom, this is not by accident. This has been meticulously planned, in conjunction with all of their other shenanigans of the past few decades, to totally rob the American people of their commons, their national treasure, and ultimately their soul. Both parties are part-and-parcel of the corporate-state, but its evident that the Republican Party is the designated express train to their goal.
It's going to be an interesting next couple of years; a very tough next few years to weather.
Held hostage? Your true calling is comedy, seriously.
The US government is close to owing more money that the sum of every identifiable amount of economic activitity produced by the USA and its citizens in one year. It is on course to only go up from there. How will it all get paid off? A tax on someone's jet???
I am now completely convinced that President Teleprompter is a Republican. If you were a Republican strategist and your goal was to destroy the Democratic party for generations, what would you do or how would you do it. You could spend trillions advertising to no real effect. Or you could plant a saboteur in the Dem Party and advance him to the White House. Why else would you run McCain as a presidential candidate.
Anywho, Dems lost blue and purple governorships and senates seats and the house the last time around. The carnage will be greater in the senate this time. Barak Hussein Telepromter is gone in '12.
Hopefully then we can pass something like a balanced budget ammendment. Then you folks can bith and moan about spending money we actually have.
I thought there was only one Satan...why does the photo show three of him ??
Tom, well said. And thanks for keeping the memory of Molly Ivins alive. She was truly a delightful and insightful writer.
Re; Boltok's comment, We did have the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990. This was in place until Pres GW Bush and his Legislature of Lackeys screwed the pooch in giving away the budget surplus, cutting taxes and enacting loopholes to further lower taxes on the top 2% while eliminating loop holes for the middle class (effectively raising taxes for over 90% of the populace). If the Budget Enforcement Act had been left in place and the 2nd Iraq war had never happened we would not be in the straights we are in at this moment. If we had kept the tax rates as they were in 1998 (which were still lower than the rate in 1932), not given major corporations tax incentives to move their bases of operation to third world nations, taken action on the financial "geniuses" who screwed the nation, and taken the intelligence warnings from Israel seriously in the late spring and summer of 2001 we would be much closer to eliminating the nations entire debt.
I want me some of what boltok is smoking. His world is just so full of pretty colors and whimsical little magical beasts. Such a refreshing change from the real world....
Hey, boltok, quit bogarting and pass that joint down here!
~A~
Depression is when you are out of work.
A recession is when you neighbor's out of work.
Recovery is when Obama's out of work.
PS - Obama has never had a real job.
Show me one job that has been created due to increasing taxes. If we had more people working in the private sector there would be more revenue to operate government without increasing taxes. While at the same time reducing the need for higher spending on unemployment benefits.
How does increasing taxes increase jobs in the private sector?
Just the Fact[s?]!, you asked...
"Show me one job that has been created due to increasing taxes."
I'll show you thousands -- tens of thousands -- that were created due to just two government programs:
First, the Interstate Highway System; and secondly, NASA's Apollo program, and subsequent Shuttle program.
The number of jobs created, just due to the multiplier effect, was huge, not to mention the billions of dollars each contributed to GDP and taxable revenue.
Do you have any more questions?
Increasing taxes raises revenue which can be used for constructive social purposes instead of being used as charity for the Military Industrial Complex cronies who have buddies in D.C. The way to provide more jobs is to outlaw outsourcing ( or impose tariffs that are punitive for producing goods abroad and then shipping them back here for sale ) and force manufacturers to have a social conscience and employ AMERIKANS !! Then get rid of all the illegal immigrants who steal our jobs and lower our earning power. That will free up jobs for the people who actually have the right to live here. Keep production and services here and keep outsiders from stealing the few jobs that are here. That would be a start to getting more folks back working. The next step is to require that they are paid a living wage and not a pittance for their efforts. Then they just might have disposable income to stimulate the economy. DUH !!!
This comment has been removed by the author.
@ Ellis- true...the middle class has a larger marginal propensity to consume than the upper class...WE (at least I think that applies to most that comment here) are the one that actually stimulate the economy....not rich people....It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to offer relief to rich people and place to burden of this crisis on us...The outcome will be disastrous..
In you rush to reply you missed an important part of my question, "private sector jobs".
But let's run with your examples,
NASA, is it expanding it's job numbers or declining? Is this result have anything to do with taxes going up or down?
Interstate Highway System, so the workers on these projects get checks directly from the U.S. Govt? And after the highways are built, who pays for the repairs? The State govt or Federal?
How long does a job is it to built a highway? Aren't most of them all built? I thought our goal was to have less need for highways in our going green movement?
So after the highway is done, where does the worker go then for their job? To build highways that aren't needed?
How are Interstate Highway's funded, income tax, user tax (tolls) or gas tax? It's not income tax it's gas and as the price goes up, demand for gas drops. Increasing the tax on gas creates the same effect as the price at the well going up, demand drops.
EE, not sure how your statement fits in to my question about taxes and jobs but when I said I what you did I was labled a racist.
Here's your statment
" Then get rid of all the illegal immigrants who steal our jobs and lower our earning power. That will free up jobs for the people who actually have the right to live here."
Care to retract it?
But EE, the three guys on top that make you want to puke, do they agree or disagree with your position on immigration?
Don't puke man, you might get it on your doobie and that makes them hard to light.
Reread my statement, EE when I made it was I called a racist, will be interesting to see how you are treated. Just looking after you that's all.
JG said:
"I'll show you thousands -- tens of thousands -- that were created due to just two government programs:
First, the Interstate Highway System; and secondly, NASA's Apollo program, and subsequent Shuttle program. "
YOU FORGOT TO MENTION OTHER WONDERFUL PROGRAMS LIKE THE BIG DIG THAT WAS HOW MANY YEARS AND DOLLARS OVERBUDGET? LOL LOL LOL. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO GOT IT WHERE THE SUN DOESN'T SHINE BECAUSE OF THE BIG DIG ARE THE TAXPAYERS! LUCKILY FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THE PERCENTAGE OF TAXPAYERS KEEPS GOING DOWN AS THEY TURN THE US INTO A NANNY STATE!
THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED ON THE BIG DIG NOW WOULD LIKE A BIG HIGH SPEED RAIL TRAIN AT THE TAXPAYERS EXPENSE OF COURSE!
I just wanted to apologize to everyone on "The Rant" for blowing a lot of smoke up your ass about how I was going to bring "Hope And Change" to the US and world in my 2008 campaign. It looks like I am full of shit. At least I got a Nobel Peace prize for only how many days in office? I forget just like I forget how many states there are in the US sometimes.
I just would like people on "The Rant" to give me another chance in 2012! I promise, if you elect me again, to complete some of my promises in the 2008 election.
Tommy D, good job for not posting what a horrible dirt bag Andrew Weiner is because he is a Democrat and coming up with all the fabulous and phoney mud about the Republicans! Keep up the good work Tommy D!
Your Socialist in Charge,
Barry Obama
Ellis D., Esq. "Then get rid of all the illegal immigrants who steal our jobs and lower our earning power. That will free up jobs for the people who actually have the right to live here."
It's been tried. It turns out that even people on probation won't do fieldwork (if my math is correct, not even for fifteen bucks a hour, if they haul ass).
Just the Facts! " So after the highway is done, where does the worker go then for their job? To build highways that aren't needed?"
Infrastructure is the foundation for business. Try shipping anything anywhere without roads, rail, ports (both air and sea). Also, emergency services, education, telecommunications, the power grid...
A republic that isn't commited to infrastructure (and maintenance of same) is a banana republic.
Anonymous "LUCKILY FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THE PERCENTAGE OF TAXPAYERS KEEPS GOING DOWN AS THEY TURN THE US INTO A NANNY STATE!"
*cough*
Barry Obama "Tommy D, good job for not posting what a horrible dirt bag Andrew Weiner is because he is a Democrat and coming up with all the fabulous and phoney mud about the Republicans!"
Exactly. Talking dirty on the internet is far worse than forcing the state to cut services to the poor, the sick and the elderly (while ignoring subsidies to the wealthy and corporations); in effect, trying to balance the budget (during a recession!*) on the backs of the least of us. [insert suitable quote about "not learning from history"]
"Your Socialist in Charge..."
If only...
* The recession may be officially over, but I'm assuming all the economists who say so still have jobs.
ModusOperandi,
Why are you posting with a picture of a white man when you are a colored guy like me?
You lay down the bull almost as good as me!
Perhaps this will something to this conversation.
A cut and paste from: http://www.creditwritedowns.com/201
"During the Bush administration, when a budget surplus tuned to deficit and debt piled up, Republican leaders in Congress voted to raise the debt ceiling 5 times, increasing the limit nearly $4 trillion.
We’re talking about Speaker John Boehner, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl.
Combined, they voted 19 times for a debt ceiling increase without complaint or conditions.
June 2002: Congress approves a $450 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $6.4 trillion. McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor vote “yea”, Kyl votes “nay.”
May 2003: Congress approves a $900 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $7.384 trillion. All four approve.
November 2004: Congress approves an $800 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.1 trillion. All four approve.
March 2006: Congress approves a $781 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $8.965 trillion. All four approve.
September 2007: Congress approves an $850 billion increase, raising the debt limit to $9.815 trillion. All four approve."
Now look at the position this quartet has taken. Could it be . . . ?
"Infrastructure is the foundation for business"
Really, tell us how many coast to coast highways there are in Canada?
What you are saying is to return to the WPA of the New Deal. Great as long as you hold the wages of the workers low so the tax payers can afford to buy car to drive on the highway. Cant do that due to Unions demanding more for their members, so govt has to raise taxes to pay for infrastructure. What happens when the tax payers can no longer afford the taxes?
Remember the question was show a job private sector created by raising taxes.
Let's all take a moment and bask in the irony of Anonymous lambasting infrastructure while using the internet.
Just the Fact[s?]! incredibly asked...
"How does increasing taxes increase jobs in the private sector?"
Which I answered.
...which was, just as incredible, followed by...
"In you [sic] rush to reply you missed an important part of my question, 'private sector jobs'."
Who do you think built the interstate system? Contractors, right? Who ultimately hired the contractors to build the roads? Government, right? Obviously, if the federal government didn't fund it, the interstate system would have never been built by private industry. Therefore, private jobs would never have been created. That's a fact.
I don't know about you, Anonymous. As Modusoperandi has repeatedly said, you don't argue in good faith. I answered your question, in good faith, yet you continue to divert the conversation by bringing up every bit of inconsequential minutia that has nothing to do with anything.
Just admit you're wrong. I proved to you that private jobs have been created by government.
So if I understand you correctly, we would have no unemployment if everyone worked in some way for the govt?
And you missed the part of my post that told asked you after the highway is finished what then. And how about increasing wages?
And final question, could it be that some of the contractors are evil corporations?
If the answer to job creation is increasing taxes, show us were that has worked?
And MOE where in my post was I "lambasting infrastructure"? Are you just trying your favorite trick of deflection? Again.
Yellowstone,
The Republicand were wrong to raise the debt ceiling, just as Senator Obama was right in voting against raising the debt ceiling.
Just the Facts? "And you missed the part of my post that told asked you after the highway is finished what then. And how about increasing wages?"
Well, first you can take a shower before you leave the bright lights of L.A., on to Interstate 15 to your summer job at Lake Mead, while eating a California orange and mumbling to yourself how state-funded infrastructure isn't good for anything.
"And MOE where in my post was I 'lambasting infrastructure'?"
1. 2.
And you're Anonymous? Interesting.
GO JUG EARS!!!
Obamanomics has produced an increase of 360 jobs per state last month. Not 360,000 jobs per state, but 360 jobs per state. Given the economic freak show in the White House, 360 job per state should be considered an accomplishment.
With Timmmayyyy and Gooooooolsby jumping ship, the entire original team of economic fools will be gone.
I wonder what Jug Ears and his teleprompter will do next?
boltok, how many jobs has the House GOP created with the zero jobs bills they've put forward since they took the House?
I need a breath of fresh air so I am returning to the subject of Molly Ivins. She was my idol; her sense of humor will never be matched. She knew her politicians in the 'leggie' and pilloried them so effectively that you could hear them screaming for miles.
God, how I miss Molly. I wish I believed that I would go to heaven because if there is one, Molly is there.
'Horrific' Jobs Report Renews Fears of Double-Dip Recession
Friday, 8 Jul 2011
By Patti Domm
CNBC Executive News Editor
The U.S. economy added a paltry 18,000 jobs in June, and the unemployment rate climbed to 9.2 percent from 9.1 percent as laid off government workers continued to join the ranks of the unemployed. There were also 44,000 fewer jobs created than previously reported for April and May.
"Even the hours worked slipped. It's just a horrific report. Unemployment going up is not good," said Marc Chandler, Brown Brothers Harriman chief currency strategist.
To all you intellectually superior socialists/marxists here, HOW IS THE HOPE AND CHANGE WORKING OUT FOR YOU NOW?
Is it still Bush's fault?
What we have is another Jimmy Carter in office!
Modusoperandi, you asked...
"boltok, how many jobs has the House GOP created with the zero jobs bills they've put forward since they took the House?"
As you pointed out, the Tea Party-dominated GOP has created absolutely zero job creation legislation since taking office last winter, but leave it up to their entrepreneurial brethren at the gubernatorial ranks to take the bull by the horns.
I doubt whether a default will occur, considering that Obama (and every president) can simply declare any arbitrary debt ceiling as unconstitutional and be done with it.
The president holds the trump card. He knows it, and everyone knows it. Being a corporatist, and playing the role of the corporate-state's water boy, he's working hand-in-hand with the other wing of the corporate party to dismantle America -- piece-by-piece.
Prediction: A last minute agreement will be announced, amid the deceitful and misleading rhetoric from both sides of the aisle, as Medicare and Social Security will be compromised, while the DoD budget will be bigger and more robust than ever.
It's the continuing saga of the dismantling of America: one piece at a time.
There ought to be another face in the pic at the top of this post - that of Prez Barack Obama, to whom all critical remarks should also relate
I think Mr. Degan is giving Obama a bit of a "bye". Obama is as guilty as any Republican in this scenario - in fact how the heck does one tell the difference?
If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, does that mean for all of us or just some of us?
If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, how would you rate the 1st year of this administration when they had complete control of the House, Senate and White house?
If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, then why are there still unemployed?
At a cost of $275,000 per job created so far by the Stimulus Bill how can the govt afford to keep creating them?
The Federal Budget already consumes close to 25% of our GDP, how much more do you think it should consume?
Private Jets deprecation tax loop hole law the President was talking about, it wasn't the Republicans who passed this , it was the Democrats in their Stimulus Bill. No Republicans voted for it!
Republicans want to destroy and cut Medicare? The Obama Health Care bill took out $500 billion from Medicare. And no Republicans voted for it.
I'm amused at all the Righties' idiotic questions about jobs. Any sane person knows jobs have been disappearing since Bush and the Republicans gave it all away to his fellow aristocrats.
Where are all those jobs the tax cuts for the rich were supposed to bring??
Where are all the jobs and the prosperity from the deregulation of Wall Street??
How's our debt doing after the wars Bush started but didn't finish?
Crickets...
We won’t see them answer these questions because they are neo-fascists indoctrinated to blame the Jews,,,,er liberals, for all that is wrong.
Any sane person also knows Obama (the socialist to the brain dead) works for the same Big Money boys who own the entire Republican Party.
And any sane person knows it was millionaires, billionaires and their bought and paid for politicians that have screwed this country.
Only utter fools and Right Wing cultists think liberals were in charge doing all these things over the past decades.
Once again the Duke of Deflection, Dave Duyba, comes to rescue of the left's fear of answering questions or entering into a meaningful dialog, by deflection with questions of his own. DD is an example of most who support his views either afraid or too stoned to answer a few simple questions. Might cause him to think instead of vomiting the latest verbiage from moveon.org.
Sad, and sooo predictable. Or maybe he knows the answers and just doesn't want to face up to the failure of his beliefs.
DD said "Only utter fools and Right Wing cultists think liberals were in charge doing all these things over the past decades."
So the problem is he thinks what we have now is not liberal enough. He forgets the 40 plus years of Democrat control of the House.
I'd love for him to give an example of what he thinks (if he does at all think) would be liberal enough. An example of a liberal enough nation now operating. Not liberal enough, amazing, simply amazing.
Anybody else hear crickets?
DD said "Only utter fools and Right Wing cultists think liberals were in charge doing all these things over the past decades."
So the problem is he thinks what we have now is not liberal enough. He forgets the 40 plus years of Democrat control of the House.
I'd love for him to give an example of what he thinks (if he does at all think) would be liberal enough. An example of a liberal enough nation now operating. Not liberal enough, amazing, simply amazing.
Yup DD I sure do hear crickets and it comes from you for not being able to answer questions, Dear Duke of Deflection
If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, does that mean for all of us or just some of us?
If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, how would you rate the 1st year of this administration when they had complete control of the House, Senate and White house?
If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, then why are there still unemployed?
At a cost of $275,000 per job created so far by the Stimulus Bill how can the govt afford to keep creating them?
The Federal Budget already consumes close to 25% of our GDP, how much more do you think it should consume?
Private Jets deprecation tax loop hole law the President was talking about, it wasn't the Republicans who passed this , it was the Democrats in their Stimulus Bill. No Republicans voted for it!
Republicans want to destroy and cut Medicare? The Obama Health Care bill took out $500 billion from Medicare. And no Republicans voted for it.
Just in case you think readers wont recall what was posted, here's a refresher for them.
MO, JG;
Businesses and corporations, which JG detests, create jobs, not Wash. DC paperwork.
When the dems talked up recovery summer last year did they mean last summer, this summer, or some summer in the future.
Tick, tick, tick. Where has the democratic budget been the last few years? Where are the shovel ready jobs.
No worry, the Teleprompter said he is ready to roll up his sleeves. That is a good sign. It means he won't be wearing a golf shirt for a change.
These are certainly the people we have been waiting for.
From my favorite blog (sorry TD), a new method to reduce the deficit. Go government. I wonder if Warren Buffet or George Soros would chose to participate?
H.R.2411 -- Reduce America's Debt Now Act of 2011
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-boiling-frog-alert-congress-wants-automatic-wage-deductions-pay-down-debt
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:h2411:
Anonymous "If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs, does that mean for all of us or just some of us?"
I think we've had this conversation before. "Infrastructure". Don't worry, like everything else you repeatedly bring up, I'll remind you when you say it again.
"If it is the duty of govt. to create jobs..."
According to the GOP, pre-2010 election ("Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!") yes. Yes it is. According to them after that ("Deficit! Deficit! Deficit!"), no.
Discuss.
"...how would you rate the 1st year of this administration when they had complete control of the House, Senate and White house?"
Mediocre (otherwise known as "typically Democrat"). A compromised Stimulus and months of bickering over what turned out to be (in no small part thanks to GOP arguing in bad faith for something they most planned to vote for in the first place) a muddled Affordable Care Act. Bonus: a (surprise!) ineffectual Bank Reform that doesn't fix what broke the economy and won't even be enforced when the GOP is in charge.
"Republicans want to destroy and cut Medicare?"
Yes. See Ryan Plan, for the most recent example. If that's saving Medicare, then the fire department should be saving houses by burning them to the ground.
"The Obama Health Care bill took out $500 billion from Medicare."
Oh, zombie lies. You never die. He didn't take $500B out of Medicare. He brought in reforms to "bend the cost curve" for Medicare Advantage (the private/public offshoot of actual Medicare that was supposed to let the private market work the magic that it's supposed to be so capable of. In this case the magic turned out to be costing more than Medicare).
Analogy: It's not taking away your crutches, it's getting the price down on the crutches you do have.
"And no Republicans voted for it."
You're telling us that the Republicans voted against helping insure the uninsured? And they voted against something that tries to reduce the cost of healthcare? And in this program that they voted against were ideas that they would ordinarily be for; in some cases being ideas that they themselves had earlier put forward? And they said "No" to an Obama initiative? Shock! Horror!
Someone get me my fainting couch!
Hmm, "talked up recovery". Recovery from what? Oh, yes the Republican/Bush teleprompter economic collapse and recession.
I know, let's vote in Republicans who want to prove again how government does not work. They'll fix us up real good. Yes, sir.
I bet if only we give the rich more tax cuts, or how about let's not tax them at all, abolish the minimum wage, and give them the feudalism they really want? They already own most of the politicians, why not give it all to them?
Yup, yup, that'll fix us up real good.
Can't go wrong with Corporatocracy. Democracy is for losers.
boltok "MO, JG; Businesses and corporations, which JG detests, create jobs, not Wash. DC paperwork."
1. Profits are up (and have been for some time. Record profits in some cases)
2. Corporations are sitting on a couple trillion in cash.
3. Taxes are stable. And down.
Where are the jobs they're creating, boltok? What's your excuse for their failure? Obama not sucking up to them enough? Do they need more tax cuts (see point 1)?
What is Supply-side economics when there is no demand?
"...the Teleprompter..."
Repeatedly debunked. You, sir, are a waste of perfectly good calories.
Go away.
NYTimes (JG's paper) Reporter Question to David Mamet (who recently escaped the mental disorder of Liberalism):
Years ago, you described “American Buffalo” as being about “how we excuse all sorts of great and small betrayals and ethical compromises called business.” In this book, you defend enormous payouts to C.E.O.’s working for failing corporations. You seem to have changed radically.
David Mamet Answer:
I have. Here’s the question: Is it absurd for a company to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to a C.E.O. if the company is failing? The answer is that it may or may not be absurd, but it’s none of our goddamned business. Because as Milton Friedman said, the question is not what are the decisions but who makes the decisions. Because when the government starts deciding what’s absurd, you’re on the road to serfdom.
Dave Dubya, go take another hit off Ellis D's bong!
Yes, Liberalism is a mental disorder to greedheads, sociopaths and fascists.
Mamet likes money. So?
Here's what he also said:
Don’t you have to denounce your early, anticapitalistic work then?
Of course not. At that time in my life I didn’t have a penny, and I was glad to be working at entry-level jobs. Having lived for quite a while longer, I see life from a different perspective. What am I going to do, go on denouncing capitalism all my life?
Wow, rich men like capitalism.
No bong is as mind-numbing and soul-killing as that Koolade your cult drinks.
Have another swig and tell us something else as pointless.
Thank God Moe is here to spread more liberal lies, half truths and their version of wives tales or the brain dead Duke of Deflection would be beside himself worrying how to give a straight answer.
Fact is MOE and the rest of the libtards who post here claim the current brand of Democrats are not liberal enough for them, which gives them nice cover when someone asks them why liberal policy's continue to fail. IE: they simply say those are not liberal policy's. But then refuse to define what would be a liberal policy and launch into an attack on conservationism.
"Don't blame us for the mess, the problem is the the policy's are not liberal enough." is what MOE and the rest of the stooges use as cover from questions.
Nice triangulation, and deflection.
Anonymous "Thank God Moe is here to spread more liberal lies..."
{citation needed}
"...half truths..."
{citation needed}
"...and their version of wives tales..."
{citation needed}
"Fact is MOE and the rest of the libtards who post here claim the current brand of Democrats are not liberal enough for them..."
1. GOP rhetoric on the deficit,
2. Obama (and the Blue Dogs) rhetoric about the deficit.
Compare 1 and 2. What, you can't? Because they're roughly the same? ("Fiscally, government is like a family", "The Markets need confidence", "Reform entitlements now", etc). Golly. That can't be. That would make us correct!
People are realizing that wealth cannot be created by the "all knowing" central planners in Washington. The people have had enough and will make them extinct in 2012!
Its so easy for the Utopians to spend other people's money, but the money has run out and the people see that the central planners have no clothes!
It is time to get rid of these worthless blood sucking socialists in Washington! Power to the Tea Party!
Crickets are still chirping while we wait to see all those jobs from the aristocrats' tax breaks.
Jobs, jobs and more jobs are on their way. Yes, sir, especially now that Republicans control the House. That would mean they are in charge now, at least according to some chirping from the weeds, like the dems were in charge during Reagan, Bush, and Bush the Chickenhawk.
Where are those jobs, oh mighty Weeper of the House? Your crickets need you to answer for them.
The crickets you hear are are coming from the empty rooms that used to hold liberal brain trusts. You guys are fast becoming extinct.
The American voter is no longer falling for class warfare and promised to spread the wealth B.S. We don't beleive your view of the world much less America.
If your visions are so great share with us what you look upon as the perfect place to live. The fact that you don't is all that is needed to damn liberals as a failing style of government.
Remember, Man is not free unless government is limited.
Anonymous "The American voter is no longer falling for class warfare and promised to spread the wealth B.S."
"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." ~ Warren Buffett
Dave Dubya,
You dumb liberal sh*thead, all of Obama's "economic advisors" are "fleeing like rats when a flashlight is shined on them" as they see the Chosen one, Obama, has turned out to be another failure of central planning.
Go smoke some more refer and sing some 60s songs with Ellis D Dopehead.
So the problem is there are rich people? I get it, you libtards want govt to take the wealth from the rich because you are not smart enough to become wealthly on your own. Then you want that wealth to either be given to you in the form of income tax credits or a paycheck from the govt. for a "job" govt created just for you.
You know, spread the wealth around. Has it ever entered your drug addled mind that once you have taken the wealth from the rich two things will happen?
1. No one will want to work hard to become rich and you will no longer have their wealth to take to "spread around".
2. The rich will now be the political leaders, like what went on in the OLD USSR. But they wont cotton to spreading their wealth around.
Great, since no one can be rich, we all must be poor? There's something to look forward to!
And this shit cover you libtards are using that Obama and the democrats aren't liberal enough so don't blame us for their failure, is just a shame. Show us where the libtard plan is in place and is working, Greece?
The crickets you hear are coming from the empty space between your ears.
Liberalism, failing America since 1931!
Boltok, you claimed...
"...JG; Businesses and corporations, which JG detests..."" {{citation needed}}
I, a long admirer of yours, Tom, parted ways with you when you became so gung-ho over the Saviour Obama who had no track record to speak of and used lingo that had no substance beneath it.
I fear the worst is about to hit and we will all have to reinvent the world as we know it and get on our knees and plant just to feed ourselves. The greatest transfer of treasure and wealth in history has been finalized under the auspices of the Puppet Obama and to dream of taxing the rich is to blow smoke-rings after it.
We are all on our own.
XO
WWW
Here is an example of liberalism failing America, as it has since 1931.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi at the health summit: "It's about jobs. In it's life, it [the health bill] will create 4 million jobs -- 400,000 jobs almost immediately."
2/25/2010
Still waiting former Speaker Pelosi, still waiting.
WISEWEBWOMAN, Where have you been? So well stated.
Thank you!
Hi Tom,
Whatever party rules the military still gets the biggest budget in the whole world. All them soldiers etc are part of government, and all claiming from the public purse.
Eisenhower was eloquent in his critique:
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children..."
The problem lies not so much maybe with the sycophantic politicians, but with all the costume wearing,flag-waving, gun-toting , murderous and xenophobic Americans who take part in the shameless and empty-hearted fiasco of militarism.
Mohammed, you astutely perceived the underlying condition when you said...
"The problem lies not so much maybe with the sycophantic politicians, but with all the costume wearing,flag-waving, gun-toting , murderous and xenophobic Americans who take part in the shameless and empty-hearted fiasco of militarism."
Sir, I salute you! You've hit the nail on the proverbial head! (I guess you've figured out that there are several of "those types" trolling this blog, huh?)
Anonymous, erroneously claimed...
liberals on this site always "launch into an attack on conservationism." [dark font my own]
Liar! True liberals always support conservationism! As a matter of fact, "[i]n the 1930s, the dominant view was the conservationism of Theodore Roosevelt, endorsed by Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt, that led to the building of many large-scale dams and water projects, as well as the expansion of the National Forest System to buy out sub-marginal farms."
Liberals love and embrace "conservationism". I'm surprised you didn't know that.
Yes, Liberalism is a Mental Disorder to Greedheads, Sociopaths and Fascists.
Again you make my case. Now you sound just a fascist. We’re shocked, shocked, I tell you.
I bet there are some other angry hateful things you’d like to call me, too. Come on, say I’m a communist. Say I hate America. You really want to, don’t you?
Of course you do.
Have another swig of your Koolade and tell us something else as pointless and fascistic.
$275,000 cost per job created by the One's Stimulus Bill, 400,000 will created immediately after the"One's" Health Care Bill is passed, you know that bill we will have to read to know what's in it.
This makes sense only to Libtards, who want more more spending, higher taxes on those who already pay taxes and more freebies for those who don't.
An now a new attempt at the Duke of Deflection favorite game, deflection, with the Libtards favorite whipping boy, the military.
Why would any one with any common sense want to cut military spending if the Libtards are for it, just look at their track record for failure?
Chirp, chirp "deflection". Chirp, chirp "military". Chirp.
Man is not free unless government is limited.
Yes America is being held hostage, hostage to the Federal Government.
Example, it is well know that what drives a recovery is the growth of the small business segment of our economy. When they start to rehire, unemployment rates in the private sector drops.
So how is the Federal Govt. helping make this happen? It is not. Under the rule of this liberal govt over 500 NEW regulator laws have been passed. The cost to the small business sector is already over $1.75 TRILLION per year.
What are the effects of these regulations and the other actions taken by this government?
Unemployment rates in the public sector have not declined.
Unemployment compensation has been extended, without the stimulus to the economy promised by Congresswoman Pelosi.
Twenty five percent of our national GNP is consumed by the Federal Government.
Energy costs continue to go up as candidate promised they would.
Food costs are climbing.
Our currency on the world market is declining in value.
Illegal immigration has become, it could be argued, a National security issue. (look up Operation Gunrunner)
And yet with all of of this, the liberals in Congress continue to push for higher taxes and more regulation.
Hurry up November 2012!
There's gonna be some Hope and Change in 2012 when Rick Perry is President!
Hey Dave Dubya, I see that free0352 is really ripping you a new one on your blog!
Hey Reddy,
Thanks for looking in. I like Free because he’s not just another goose-stepping idiot who calls me an America-hating Commie, no matter what he thinks of my opinions.
Yeah, “ripping a new one” is the opinion of the same “deep thinker” who says Secessionist Rick is going to be President.
Look at all the good things the last Texas Governor left us, 9-11, two unfinished wars, torture, war crimes, a demolished Bill of Rights, disappearing jobs, more poverty, lower standard of living, and a crashed economy. But the rich got richer, and tax cuts to boot. Just what we need more of, eh? Republicans, where would we be without them?
A lot better off with more of us alive.
"Look at all the good things the last Texas Governor left us, 9-11",
OMG, the Duke of Deflection is an 9-11 was an inside job believer.
Now I have zero respect for him and his beliefs.
Chirrp, chirp, 9-11 inside job. Chirrp, chirp, deflection. Chirp.
Chrip chirp is all you get on your blog, DD
Rasmussen — 52% of Likely U.S. Voters think President Obama is more liberal than they are.
Just 15% feel the president is politically more conservative than they are, the highest level measured to date. Twenty-six percent (26%) believe the president’s ideology is about the same as their own.
Eighty-three percent (83%) of Republicans think the president is more liberal than they are. Among Democrats, a plurality (49%) say they share a similar ideology to the president, 26% say he is more conservative than they are, and 20% say he is more liberal. A majority (55%) of voters not affiliated with either major political party believe the president is more liberal than they are.
Happy 1st Wedding Anniversary Huma, Anthony and forthcoming offspring.
Boehner should tell Reid to bring a budget to the Senate floor for debate, offering of amendments and voting. Then a Senate committee can meet with a House one in conference to reconcile the two bills, send the new bill back to both houses, pass it and send it to the president. You know, uh, the way it's been done for over 200 years?
There's no reason why House Republicans need to do the Senate's job for them.
(Rasmussen) — Voters remain strongly supportive of a free market economy over one controlled by the government and still think small businesses are hurt more than big businesses when the government does get involved.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 72% of Likely U.S. Voters believe a free market economy is better than an economy managed by the government. Just 14% think a government-managed economy is better. Another 14% are not sure.
Republicans and unaffiliated voters overwhelmingly prefer a free market approach. Among these segments of the electorate, the number preferring a government-managed economy is in the single digits.
Among Democrats, 48% say a free market is better, but 29% think a government-managed economy is the answer. Twenty-three percent (23%) are not sure.
Seventy-five percent (75%) of those who work for a private company give the nod to a free market economy, compared to 53% of government employees.
Dave Dubya said
"Hey Reddy,
Thanks for looking in. I like Free because he’s not just another goose-stepping idiot who calls me an America-hating Commie, no matter what he thinks of my opinions."
So people who believe in small government, where members of congress should serve at most a few terms (rather than making it a career), as in what the Founders of this country intended, are goose-stepping idiots?
If we had small government and term limits would lobbyists be able to get special breaks from the government for the special interests they represent? You paint a phoney picture that only Republicans in congress are manipulated by lobbyists and special interest groups. Would the Pelosi's have the same wealth if Nancy had NOT been in politics?
Dave W, you and Ellis D need to back off on the pot. It is clouding your reasoning.
Don't mess with Texas Dave. We are producing jobs unlike your bankrupt blue states that are collapsing.
RedStateFred,
You know what other states are producing jobs?
right to works states.
My state is NOT a right to work state, and low and behold....it's creating jobs, jobs, jobs....!
Mary Mayhem said...
My state is NOT a right to work state, and low and behold....it's creating jobs, jobs, jobs....!
Fred said...
When are you going to get one?
Reddy,
Texas gave us the great failure Chickenhawk Decider. What has anyone done to deserve that?
Your senseless question would be answered in the sentence of mine you cut and pasted, had you read it.
See "not"?
I have no time for your nonsense.
I'd like to see our Leaders and the media present a graph showing the solvency of the SS Trust Fund including the skimmed surplus plus interest removed since the 1980's compared to the present state of the fund and then explain to the American People what the fuck happened and why the government conveniently ignores their culpability.
@ Fred ~ I have one. I'm a mom. Plus I go to school and get paid to do so because of time served in the military. I will work after I'm done. It's my job to go to school; If I make below a 2.0 in any course, I have to pay the money back. It's ok. You don't have to cry just because you have another woman like me in charge of you.
Mohammed -
"Only strength can cooperate. Weakness can only beg."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
You need to understand the man in context. He'd not have liked your assessment of the American people. Nor do I, for that matter.
Please provide examples of the "costume-wearing, gun toting, flag-waving" Americans you refer to.
Harley, you asked of Mohammed...
"Please provide examples of the 'costume-wearing, gun toting, flag-waving' Americans you refer to."
I dunno, Harley, it wasn't hard for me to envision what Mohammed was saying. It's perfectly exemplified right here.
Now, before you retort that I'm against Second Amendment rights, or any rights for that matter, please understand that I'm not. I'm just using this video to portray for you, what I see, when I think of Tea Party activists. Obviously, the same caricature floats across Mohammed's mind too.
Hey Red, our perception of Amerika is crystal clear. You folks are the ones that have clouded reasoning.....clouded by the brainwashing you've had and the refusal to admit you have been conned, sold a bill of goods. You people need something even more psychotropic than pot !!
JG,
Did your read the posts to the link you offered? Doesn't sound like many writers agree with your vision of tea party.
Caricature is a good word to describe what you think you see vs reality of what is real. It's call left wing bias, and it's deeply ingrained in you.
Well, Jefferson's Guardian, your horse manure posts are sure getting deep. I do believe I'll have to wear my chest waders the next time I wade into reading one of them. Your last post today almost crested my hip boots.
Maybe you can tell us again how you came up with over 50% GDP being spent on defense. I don't think my hip waders can handle that post!
Tom Degan, this is not your Father’s Democrat Party, may he rest in peace. This is STALIN’S Democrat Party. Lenin’s. Castro’s. Hugo Chavez’.
President Obama’s people are DENYING that anything is wrong. DENYING that the Stimulus was a DISASTER. DENYING that Obama is a FAILURE. We can’t get REAL NUMBERS on Unemployment or Inflation. They LIE about their Soviet Style Health Care Plan. LIE about Libya. LIE about EVERYTHING.
This is THE BIG LIE Administration. Just keep repeating the LIE. And make it a BIG one. Never take a step back. Just keep repeating THE BIG LIE.
Where’s all that BP Money. Is there a full accounting of TARP and Stimulus Monies? Why isn’t GM paying any Taxes? Why isn’t GE paying any Taxes? Why is EVERYTHING being done BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, in this, The most transparent Administration ever? Why were the New Business regulations written by the two guys – Chris Dodd and Barney Frank – who had to know what was happening in the Housing/Banking/Lending DISASTER, from their lofty positions as CHAIRMAN of the Senate Banking Committee, and the House Finance Committee, respectively?
There isn’t gonna be any jobs, until these LEFTISTS are gone. there’s gonna be HARD TIMES, as there always are, when the LEFT takes control.
They always promise that we’ll all have the same. And they always deliver on their promise. The people always end up with the same. they all end up with NOTHING.
Politics is getting very strange and convoluted these days, we now have to thank the Republicans for preventing Obama from destroying SS, Medicare and Medicaid. He was going to give the Republicans 3 trillion in social service cuts for 1 trillion in extra taxes. Since they are so rigidly ideological, they said NO! Keeping taxes at the lowest level in history for the rich is the Republicans be all and end all.
Some jerk posted here a while ago that Obama is the most Liberal president in history. It is ludicrous that they can not see he is one of them!
Oh boy here we go again with Obama is not liberal enough excuse for liberalism's failures.
Right.
By the way the Bush tax cuts included everyone not just the "rich".
JG -
So, based on your logic, I should hold anyone who says they are pro-union as a violent person?
I can provide video clips of pro-union rallies showing rabid individuals making violent threats against those they disagree with. I can provide stories of pro-union individuals actually perpetrating violence against those they disagree with. I don’t have to provide the evidence because you know it’s out there. There are proof-texts and “proof-videos” for almost ANY point one wants to (falsely) make. I call it web link epistemology.
What Mohammed did was take a pot shot at military folks, used an out-of-context statement by one of our military heroes, made a false statement about defense funding, and called good American people militarists and “the real problem”. It’s his right to do but not something I’d have expected “kudos” for.
I really enjoyed your "rant", Tom. I particularly liked this part:
"Molly Ivins once cheerfully pointed out, putting people in who don't believe in government in charge of government is generally not a particularly nifty idea."
I remember reading her quote back in the nineties, I believe. She is sorely missed. :'-(
LiberalDemIda
IF America is being held hostage the question is by whom. Libs and Progressives blame the GOP. In doing so they are ignoring the historical fact that in Feb of 2011 the Presidents proposed budget was rejected by the Democratic controlled Senate 97 to 0.
Harley, you earlier requested of Mohommed...
"Please provide examples of the 'costume-wearing, gun toting, flag-waving' Americans you refer to." (emphasis my own)
I did, by providing a video and even stipulated that I had no problem with what they were protesting (2nd Amendment rights, or whatever), and still you jumped down my throat for showing you exactly what you requested.
Did somebody get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
As far as Mohommed's comments, you conceded that he has every right to express them, but yet I sense that you don't think I have the same right to confirm and applaud those exact same comments.
Am I interpreting your displeasure to mean this? If I'm incorrect with this assessment, please clarify your meaning.
MM
Public or private sector jobs, you do know the difference don't you?
JG,
Quite trying to slim away, answer Harley A's question.
"I should hold anyone who says they are pro-union as a violent person?"
What would you say if the words pro-union were changed to Muslim?
JG –
Oh, c’mon, I did not jump down your throat. I was respectfully dialoging.
Your assessment illustrated the exact point I was making to Mohammed and I was following up – which is, don’t over-generalize based on a few video clips. Even so, I had way more issues with Mohammed’s post than that.
Harley, of course I was generalizing. You asked for something and I provided. That's all. Nothing more; nothing less.
As a matter of fact, I provided the first hit I came to after googling "costumes guns flags Tea Party". Obviously, others have preconceived notions of what they "see" when Tea Party adherents are mentioned. It's the same stereotypical description that comes to mind when I think back to the Tea Party protests held in my area (D.C.) last summer and before.
Post a Comment
<< Home