Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Bachmann-Romney Overdrive

Wait! It gets better!

There is a certain type of astonishment - that indescribable, jaw-dropping and gleeful disbelief - which used to be a fleetingly rare occurrence in my life. Happily, this phenomena is now as frequent as bat shit in the night. Such a sensation hit me the other day when it was revealed that Michele Bachmann is in a virtual tie with Mitt Romney in the always entertaining, sweetly amusing GOP presidential campaign.

Yesterday was yet another milestone day in the history of unintentional political comedy - a genre of humor of which Lady Michele has been such a generous contributor. After officially announcing her candidacy from Waterloo, Iowa, the town in which she was born ("WE CAN'T AFFORD FOUR MORE YEARS OF BARACK OBAMA!") she gave an informal, off-the-cuff interview with some genius from Fox Noise. As quoted in this morning's New York Daily News:

"What I want voters to know is, just like John Wayne was from Waterloo. Iowa, that's the kind of spirit I have, too."

Brilliant. Last evening on her MSNBC program, Rachel Maddow was perfectly content to point out the fact that, although the Duke's parents briefly lived in Waterloo years before he was born, he was actually a native of Winterset which (according to the nice folks over at Map Quest) is about 150 miles away (167 miles if you take Route I-36 South), She apparently got John Wayne confused with serial killer John Wayne Gacey, a one-time resident of Waterloo. The gal is the gift that keeps giving. Fate has indeed been kind. I'm giddy. Forgive me.

The very fact that poor old Mitt is neck-and-neck with Bachmann in the opinion polls tells me that there is some semblance of sanity left in that disgusting party. Romney, although decidedly conservative in the classic definition of that word, is fairly moderate when compared to every nominee that the GOP has puked onto the national stage for the last three decades. True, Mitt has been saying a whole lot of really stupid things lately, but that is the only way to get the Republican nomination these days. It's quite funny watching him run away from a background which is, after all is said and done, conservative in almost every respect. I can't offer for you a more perfect example of the extremism with which "the party of Abraham Lincoln" has fallen victim to than the fact that someone with the comparable gravitas of Romney is in serious competition with a fool like Bachmann.

Strange days indeed.

Will the nomination ultimately be hers? One can only hope. As screamingly twisted and hilarious as her campaign may be during the primary season, during the general election it would be a guaranteed pisser. I can just picture her debating Barack Obama. Oh, please, fate!

If we are to believe Michele Bachmann, she was called upon by God to seek public office. Apparently it is the Almighty's wish that America's tax burden should fall squarely upon the shoulders of the poor and middle class and that the top two percent (whom, by the way, have more money than God) should have their taxes lowered even further.

Some have interpreted this to mean, as they have always claimed, that God is a registered Republican. I have a slightly different take on the matter (You're not surprised, are you). I interpret this to mean that God must not have too high an opinion of rich people and that He wants to send the whole lot of them straight into eternal damnation. I seem to recall something from the Bible about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man {or woman I assume) to get into Heaven.

I tried an experiment once to prove or disprove this biblical admonition. I had an eye of a needle at the ready but no camel. Not to worry. I used my cousin Megan's dog Gus. Although Chuck is a big dog, he is considerably smaller than your average camel. The result of my experiment is not good news if you happen to find yourself in that top two percent. If I were you folks I'd start praying for a tax increase. Your eternal well being might very well depend on it. Just a friendly suggestion.

Of course there is no way in hell (no pun intended) that Michele Bachmann is going to receive the nomination in 2012 - or any other year for that matter. Much as I might drool over the prospect of something as weird as that, reality forces me to concede that the Republicans just can't be as reckless and foolish as that. Surely there is a "compromise candidate" lurking in the shadows. Fortunately for the Obama camp, that candidate probably won't be Mitt Romney.

GOOD NEWS:
They're smart enough {I think} not to go with Bachmann

BAD NEWS:
They're just too dumb to understand that Romney (and possibly Jon Huntsman) is the only candidate among them who could pose a serious threat to Obama next year.

As was predicted by many (myself included) from the day two years ago when the GOP stupidly embraced the "Tea party", that organization of nitwits has turned out to be an albatross around their necks. The only compromise candidate that will appeal to these freaks will be someone - not quite as extreme maybe as Michele Bachmann - but still too extreme for for moderate voters. And if the strategists at the RNC decide to go with Romney out of sheer desperation, the tea partiers will stay home on Election Day - just as the liberals stupidly did in 2010.

In the meantime the Republicans in Congress are doing everything humanly possible to ensure that the economy crashes. That is the reason - and the only reason - they are trying to prevent the raising of the debt ceiling in August. If America goes into default the proverbial shit will hit the economic fan. When that happens, all bets are off for the president. Their goal is to bring on an economic catastrophe in order to take back the executive and legislative branches of your government on January 20, 2013. That is what human slime like Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell and John Boehner are banking on. Our livelihood and well being doesn't matter in the least to these bastards. Wake up.

Barack Obama has been a major disappointment, but I have no other choice than to believe (Pray?) that he's saving his best tunes for Act II of this surrealistic comic opera. This much is beyond certain: If the American people ever again stupidly hand over the executive and both houses of congress to the Republicans, this country is finished - assuming we're not there already.

So let's all drink a toast to the campaign of Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. Let's hope it goes on right to the convention next summer - and beyond. Wishful thinking I know, but what the heck; I can dream, can't I?

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net

SUGGESTED VIEWING:

CASINO JACK and the United States of Money
a film by Alex Gibney

This excellent documentary tells the story of Jack Abramoff and how his corruption seeped into almost every layer of the Republican party. If it's not available from your friendly neighborhood video dealer (There's gotta be at least one left!) you can pick it up from Amazon.com for under twenty bucks. You really should not miss it.

144 Comments:

At 9:28 AM, Anonymous Hester Prynne said...

What I really want to see is Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman on the same ticket. Oh the hilarity! this lunacy is really OTT! It's really amazing that anyone can take anything they say seriously. But can you imagine this dynamic duo and the amount of comedy they can and would generate? If there is a God, I am waiting for this miracle with lipstick!

 
At 9:57 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Shit, that would be better than Cheech & Chong !!!

 
At 11:51 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

TD
Seriously, how do you write such nonsense? Do you write it because you believe it or to maintain a place in certain social circles. As usual, every line could be rebutted.

A couple items:
MB is a woman with law and tax degrees, raised foster children in addition to her natural children, was successful in business and in politics. She was probably told by God that the USA is going bankrupt.

Poor and middle class to pick up tax burden? They pay virtually nothing other than their contributions to their rock solid pensions via social security.

I have a proposal. Why don't you give everything that you have that you haven't earned to a good charity. Then go start a business or build qualifications for a profession. After doing the above, give a massive chunk to government. I would then be suprised if your views remained the same.

 
At 11:56 AM, Blogger charles moore said...

You know, Tom, if all of these people who claim to have been called by God really did get called by God, I think he has gotten a lot of wrong numbers lately.

 
At 11:58 AM, Anonymous God says said...

Boltok, go thou and do likewise:

I have a proposal. Why don't you give everything that you have that you haven't earned to a good charity. Then go start a business or build qualifications for a profession. After doing the above, give a massive chunk to government. I would then be suprised if your views remained the same.

 
At 12:08 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

boltok......the poor and middle class pay virtually nothing ?? That is such bullshit. First of all those folks are paid virtually nothing. They have to work 2 or 3 or 4 shit paying jobs just to reach the poverty level. These aren't uneducated people either...most have high school diplomas, some are college graduates. All are exploited by the greedy capitalist pigs who take as much from them as they can get while giving back as little as possible in return. ANY percentage of their income taken by the tax man is too high. These are the folks whose income should be subsidized, NOT the oil companies !!! boltok you live in a deluded reality because you and all the others like you have been successfully brainwashed to the point that you think and act against your and every other non-elites' best interest. You are a good animal on their farm though !!!

 
At 12:22 PM, Blogger mary b said...

As far as the GOP causing the economy to crash and burn to make people vote repuke, this is THE reason we need everyone we can get to help with President Obama's campaign to get out the vote!!
Anyone can volunteer, as many hours as they wish. We absolutely need to get out there, knocking on doors, phone banking and handing out flyers to help educate the ignorant and inform the one's who do not pay attention.
I have found more than a few blog posts that have HUGE lists of President Obama's accomplishments. They are a good way to help inform low information voters. Just print some out and hand them out or leave them under windshield wipers or in Doorways.

OrganizingforAmerica.org

barackobama.org

 
At 12:30 PM, Anonymous Hester Prynne said...

@ Boltok, MB raised foster children? Guess what? Government money went into MB's purse to subsidize that. She's got a law degree? Tav degree's? She probably pays less than virtually nothing. Bet she got student loans from the government to help her through school. Now she's a politician? Paid for by tax dollars. So while my underemployed, college degree (paid for by me, not the government) middle class person who ALSO pays taxes! You should see how little I bring home, oh and lets not forget property taxes also somehow I don't have to pay. Really? I have no pension I am a widowed mother of 2 and don't start on survivors benefits that we're taken away years ago thanks to Ronnie Raygun. The government takes plenty from me and good old MB is raking it in. Every line can be rebutted. I just did. Social Circles? How does a disenfranchised middle to poverty class level family maintain a "social circle"? How archaic. You're showing your age and and your income level. And your ignorance.

 
At 12:52 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

boltok:

You say,

"As usual every line can be rebutted."

Then by all means, please rebut them. That's why the comments section is there. Rebut away.

Cheers!

Tom Degan

 
At 1:00 PM, Blogger Laneman said...

boltok,

60% of Fortune 500 companies pay zero tax. So, don't go spreading your lies about the poor and middle class paying nothing.

 
At 1:16 PM, Blogger Blueheron said...

Hi Tom;

I have admired your work for some time but have to disagree with you regarding your support of Obama. If a president had - kept or hired the same plutocrats that caused our financial meltdown; refused to prosecute the war criminals that got us into the Iraq and Afghanistan quagmires, and then proceeded to add Libya, Pakistan, Yemen, etc. to those quagmires; refused to rescind warrantless wiretapping or reinstate habeus corpus; kept or in some cases exceeded the excesses of the imperial presidency of Cheney/Bush; gave unconditional support to every Israeli war crime; extended the "Patriot" Act under the dark of night with no debate; extended the Bush tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations; brought into the plutocrats meme of deficit reduction and shock doctrine capitalism at the expense of the other 99% of us - would you support that president?

Either these things are wrong or they are not. Regardless of who perpetrates them. I did not vote for Bush when he did them. Obama lost my vote for doing (or not doing - see "public option") them. We learn in "Negotiation 101" that there must be a point where we are willing to walk away, a line in the sand. If there is not, things will just keep drifting further and further to the right. Why does Obama treat the opposition which despises him with such deference while throwing his base under the bus time after time? Because he knows that at the end of the day, no matter how much we complain and criticize him, we will still vote for him. Next election I am going to vote for the candidates that best reflect my views and convictions. In Oregon we are fortunate to have some very good progressives such as Peter DeFazio, Ron Wyden, Jeff Merkley. I don't vote for them because they are Democrats, but because they stand up for the 99% of us who aren't represented by the corporate handmaidens otherwise known as our elected representatives. They are not perfect by any stretch, but they represent what the Democrats used to stand for. It is unfortunate that 2010 was not a teachable moment for Obama - he tacked even further to the right.

 
At 1:28 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

It is obvious to me now that Obummer is a fraud. How he lives with himself knowing he is a such a liar would be hard to understand but for the fact that all he was ever looking out for was himself, Michelle and the kids. Once in office he was more than happy to join the very same evil folks he once organized communities against. Guys like him used to try to talk me into giving them my lunch money in junior high school. They are called con artists.

 
At 2:12 PM, Anonymous Will Shirley said...

Tom, does that jerk Boltok live next door to you? He jumps in every time you flush the toilet. Actually, he makes less sense that Bachman and i never thought anyone was dumber than that... go figure. He just needs the attention of people responding to his crap. I have to disagree with you that the Republicrats are after the branches of government they don't already control. I think they control them all already and what they plan to do is defund the executive branch until it consists on one house slave signing papers the Congress sends up. Congress will consist of the top dogs, as always, but firmly under the control of the central committee. We already know what the Supreme republican Court is for: authenticating rigged elections. They are simply working out the details of a fascist state by committee; who they allow to "dissent", who they allow to bid on government contracts and which countries do we invade to procure "stability" in the world? Surely Nigeria needs white men to tell them how to deal with all that oil money! Absolutely. Curiously, they seem to have really studied Mussolini diligently. Constant war, no employment, crude entertainment, no education, scapegoating minorities, intellectuals, gays, Muslims etc and the Party stays in power forever or until the climate gets SO BAD they have to dredge out some scientists from the prison camps to come up with a plan to cool the Earth. BTW, the planet will be renamed: Trump Planet.

 
At 2:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Tom, Good observations about the G(reedy)OP. One issue, I did not see a significant difference between the Tea Party and the holier than thou Conservatism of w bush. Is there a difference in your opinion? Thanks for the blog, enjoy your observations. mary jaco Void France, or Houston TX

 
At 2:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Boltok, please stop swallowing fox propaganda, try BBC news or NPR, or any news that is NOT fox or fox subsidiary. Speaking of not paying taxes, Fox up near the head of the line, maybe behind Halliburton and kbr the US troop electrocuters & obscene profiteers and big oil and cheney's secret energy meetings. secrets, the gop's got a million of 'em, millions of dollars of 'em. btw this annonymous is mary jaco again. just sayin'

 
At 3:21 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I totally think the party of George W. Bush and Sarah Palin is more than capable of putting Bachmann on the ballot.

Bring her on!

 
At 5:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EE and DD are frauds. See previous string.

 
At 6:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But Im a fraud too and a dumbass. I guess that makes us even.

 
At 7:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, ASSWHIPE @ 6:59 PM how original of you. If I'm one you are to, so there. Isn't that the playground bell ringing, time for your nap before you go home from kindergarten, baby brains.

 
At 9:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I talk to myself alot.

 
At 10:03 PM, Anonymous James said...

Obama is going to be the winner in 2012 because he 1} Keeps Wall Street happy. 2} He keeps the MIC and the armament industry happy. 3} He keeps the Corporations happy. 4}He keeps the wealthy elite happy.

Nobody will be allowed to defeat him from either party because he is doing such a great job for the people that matter.

 
At 10:30 PM, Blogger Mack Lyons said...

"Bachmann-Romney Overdrive"

Sounds like an optional feature that comes on a 1934 Pushim Dillybob Grand Trosser Saloon. "Remember to engage the Bachmann-Romney Overdrive at around 40mph!!"

"Obama is going to be the winner in 2012 because he 1} Keeps Wall Street happy. 2} He keeps the MIC and the armament industry happy. 3} He keeps the Corporations happy. 4}He keeps the wealthy elite happy.

Nobody will be allowed to defeat him from either party because he is doing such a great job for the people that matter."


If that's so, then I wonder how Wall Street's approval of Obama will jive with the GOP doing everything it can to downplay and stall any sense of economic recovery among the proles and hang the albatross of "economic failure" around Obama's neck come 2012?

Perhaps Wall Street has a plan to short-circuit the Tea Party-led Parade of Stupid. Suddenly loosening the reins of capital flow just before the elections so Americans can briefly return to a diet of easy credit, $2/gal gas and flat-screen TVs might do the trick. It'll make Obama look better compared to any GOP candidate he runs against.

"Poor and middle class to pick up tax burden? They pay virtually nothing other than their contributions to their rock solid pensions via social security."

Sales taxes, property taxes and federal payroll taxes hit the poor and middle classes harder than they do the wealthy. These taxes are called "regressive" for a reason. Meanwhile, companies such as GE get away with paying ZERO taxes. And the wealthy are only taxed on 15% of capital gains.

It also amuses me how you believe the poor and middle classes have a cushy Social Security feather-bed to fall back on. Remember, the GOP's trying to KILL Social Security.

 
At 9:16 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Hey Anonymous....you want to talk about fraud ?? The " Amerikan Dream " is a fraud !! The land of opportunity.....opportunity to 1. Be underpaid. 2. Be overtaxed. 3. Be not employed at all. 4. Be searched without any probable cause whatsoever. 5. Be treated like pawns in the establishment's sick game of capitalism. 6. Be unable to access healthcare which should be available FREE to all. 7. Be unable to have a meaningful say in the electoral process a result of the undue influence of wealth in politics. 8. Be thrown in jail because your drug(s) of choice are disapproved of by the establishment, which is totally hypocritical in its approach to dealing with this social ( not criminal ) issue. Well that's just the beginning of exposing the fraud, the list goes on and on. Feel free to add to it folks.....

 
At 9:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EE,

Ahh, poor baby, sounds like your all upset because you cant stay high when you want to and get free stuff when you need it.
You have it soooooo bad in the USA. I mean imagine being FORCED to live in a country that treats YOU so badly. If you were me (and I thank God I'm not), I'd moved along time ago to some place that would make me happy.

 
At 10:08 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Once again Anonymous mistakenly thinks I'm concerned about myself. Wrong !! I pretty much do whatever the fuck I want. I reject the argument that even with its flaws Amerika is better than other places blah, blah. There should be NO flaws. The flaws are by design and they serve to benefit the elite. As Tom points out.....their ultimate goal is to make all non-elites their " niggers ". Why only exploit non-whites ?? They'll exploit everyone they can, the more the merrier !!

 
At 1:08 PM, Blogger Notalib said...

While dumb dumb in the White House talks about 57 states and how he was able to talk to a dead soldier, the leftwing loons are all hiding under their bed afraid of a little lady from Minnesota. HILARIOUS!

 
At 2:53 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

HILARIOUS!

More proof the Righties cannot comprehend what we write.

Bring... her... on!

 
At 3:40 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Dave...

It appears even monosyllabic words are beyond their understanding.

Get out the picture books...

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EE
Two things:

Countries are made up of flawed persons, you are a person, you are flawed, you live in America.

Please move to another country taking your flaws with you, maybe with your leaving, we will be a more perfect union. Since we are not perfect, try somewhere else, like Greece?

 
At 4:47 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

These are not "flaws". They are mechanisms designed to undermine democracy and support corporatist republicanism.

If I ever get the cash, I'd put this on a thousand billboards.

Corporatist Republicanism or democracy: Choose wisely.

 
At 4:48 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

The flaws I am referring to are BY DESIGN. They fester because the elite benefit from them. These aren't " human " flaws they exist to make life more difficult for the non-elites to survive, let alone prosper. Although I do agree that our so called " leaders " are human flaws in that they are psychopathic and a danger to humanity. There you go again using the old comparison argument by referring to the situation in Greece. All the flaws I refer to can be cured if we utilize our resources intelligently. We have our priorities ass backwards. If we spent half of what we piss away on the military industrial complex on social programs these flaws would vanish quickly. Of course the establishment has no interest in doing anything of the sort !!

 
At 6:34 PM, Blogger Peter Fegan said...

Love that picture of Bachmann. Who needs Palin, when you've got Ms. Batshit Crazy lady from the Hinterlands?

http://www.spiritofaprogressive.blogspot.com/

 
At 7:13 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

And if the strategists at the RNC decide to go with Romney out of sheer desperation, the tea partiers will stay home on Election Day - just as the liberals stupidly did in 2010.
I doubt it. Liberal stay home. Conservatives hold their nose and vote. With NY state allowing gay marriage, I can see the RNC digging in to the bag of tricks and pulling out some sort of anti-gay ordinance to bring the Social Conservatives to the polls. Heck, 20% of the population thinks that ACORN will steal the 2012 election, ACORN's current state of non-existence notwithstanding.

In the meantime the Republicans in Congress are doing everything humanly possible to ensure that the economy crashes. That is the reason - and the only reason - they are trying to prevent the raising of the debt ceiling in August.
I doubt that too. They're negotiating for maximum cuts (both programs-, but only where those cuts disproportionately harm the poor, sick and/or old, and tax-) but in the end, crashing the economy will hurt their corporate masters.

Laneman "60% of Fortune 500 companies pay zero tax."
Don't you see? Even the top 500 companies can't make enough money to pay taxes! That is why we have to cut them! It's gotten so bad that they have to serve the cheap champagne on their corporate jets! Woe!

Blueheron "In Oregon we are fortunate to have some very good progressives such as...Ron Wyden..."
Voted for the Patriot Act extension.

Will Shirley "I think they control them all already and what they plan to do is defund the executive branch until it consists on one house slave signing papers the Congress sends up."
Lies! They're perfectly fine with a powerful, indeed "unitary", Executive. But only when it's a Republican.

James "Obama is going to be the winner in 2012 because he 1} Keeps Wall Street happy. 2} He keeps the MIC and the armament industry happy. 3} He keeps the Corporations happy. 4}He keeps the wealthy elite happy."
Him and the rest of DC.

Mack Lyons "If that's so, then I wonder how Wall Street's approval of Obama will jive with the GOP doing everything it can to downplay and stall any sense of economic recovery among the proles and hang the albatross of 'economic failure' around Obama's neck come 2012?"
The recession ended for Wall Street in 2009. It's booming. And, while the end result of the downward economic spiral is no customers, they don't think that far ahead (the next quarter, yes. The annual report, yes. Five, ten years? No); in the meantime it's pushing down wages and preventing employees from jumping ship, both of which push up profits.

Mack Lyons "It also amuses me how you believe the poor and middle classes have a cushy Social Security feather-bed to fall back on."
Oh, come on! Grannies live in luxury on Social Security's maximum of $674 a month! Why, that's almost enough to buy the name brand peanut butter and catfood!

Ellis D., Esq. "6. Be unable to access healthcare which should be available FREE to all."
Small point: Socialized Healthcare isn't "free" (as in money-wise) but "free access" (as in everybody has access to it). Note, too, that even in place with socialized care everything might not be included (dental and glasses, for example)

Anonymous "Since we are not perfect, try somewhere else, like Greece?"
Greece lived on a bubble, gave cushy perks to connected groups, and hid debt by keeping it off the books. Add two wars and you've got Dubya's administration.

 
At 7:13 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Dave Dubya "Corporatist Republicanism or democracy: Choose wisely."
"You can have concentration of wealth or you can have democracy, but you can't have both." ~ Justice Louis Brandeis, 1916

 
At 7:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

DD and EE,

Glad to see the members of the "We hate all modern things" club have re thought their stated desire to live in North America before 1492 and have come back to 2011.
I guess using tree bark for medication, a slit trench for a toilet and a lack of A/C in the summer brought them to their senses.
You know, if there were as anti European as they claim they are one
would think they would be living in a tepee or hogan off the grid as it were.
Guess they don't like bear grease.

P.s. Move some where the design has no flaws, if you can find it.

 
At 7:28 PM, Anonymous Zorba The Greek said...

It won't be long till the socialists in the US destroy the country like they have in Greece! Its so much easier to spend other peoples money isn't it?

 
At 10:08 PM, Anonymous Benito Mussolini said...

Zorba The Greek, you're totally wrong. It's not the socialists destroying America, it's the fascists. Quit being a imbecile and confusing the two. Remember what I said: Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. Why haven't you figured this out yet?

 
At 10:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Benito,

YOU ARE WRONG, AGAIN!
Tell me, does Greece have a socialist economy or fascists economy?
As 46% of all Americans do pay any Federal Income tax, is that socialist or fascists?
And when those employed by the federal govt earn more, have better pensions, and are almost impossible to be fired, than those in the private economy is that socialist or fascists? And when those employed by the govt do not have to worry about profit to stay in business, or product something that can be sold, is that socialism or fascism?
And when govt, taxes and regulates private business out of business is that socialism or fascism?
And when the govt responds to the unemployment they have created by extending unemployment benefits is that socialism or fascism?

And when the only area of increase in the number Union jobs in in the public sector not the private, is that socialism or fascism?

I doubt you will answer these questions but instead will deflect with questions of your own, I am not holding my breath for your answer.

 
At 10:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey every body it's our Canadian racist friend MOE! He's back again to explain why he said Negroes are lazy and sneaky.

 
At 1:01 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "Hey every body it's our Canadian racist friend MOE! He's back again to explain why he said Negroes are lazy and sneaky."
Anonymous, why would I do that, when I can just insert a link that you won't read for comprehension?

 
At 7:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

cause Moe, your lazy and can't explain what you said.

 
At 9:49 AM, Blogger Leslie Parsley said...

For all the Obama haters on the left and the right:

http://progressiveerupts.blogspot.com/2011/06/president-obamas-accomplishements-after.html

 
At 10:10 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Let me set something straight.....I do not in any way " hate " our President. He's probably a decent fellow. What bothers me is his lack of courage to follow through on his campaign promises on social issues. The medical marijuana debacle is a perfect example of his copping out on his supporters. What happened to no more raids ?? What happened to no more interference with State laws ?? Does he have no control over HIS Federal agencies ?? If the legislation proposed by Barney Frank and Ron Paul were to pass in Congress will Mr. Chickenshit sign it into law ?? For me it's his lack of conviction and courage that has lost my confidence and my vote. Sorry dude, you blew it !!

 
At 11:14 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous, I think it's more your pathological unwillingness or inability to argue in good faith.

 
At 12:40 PM, Blogger Gypsy Bob said...

What Are Their Names
by David Crosby:

I wonder who they are
The men who really run this land

And I wonder why they run it
With such a thoughtless hand.

Tell me what are their names,
And on what street do they live?

I'd like to ride right over
This afternoon and give
Them a piece of my mind
About peace for mankind

Peace is not
An awful lot
To ask.

Instead of being caught up in the maelstrom of spin and the pitfalls of minutia we should all take a step back in order to gain some perspective. Look outside the box to Identify the ACTUAL MEGA RICH PLAYERS who call the shots and contact/deal/expose them directly; bypass the middle men as it were. Most beings with something to hide shy away from the Light.

The dialog engaged in here is, by design, to keep us frustrated as we spin our wheels.

 
At 1:36 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Well we all know about the Kochsucker brothers. Don't forget that the Citizens United case allows them anonymity and their wealth allows them to hide quite well. Maybe we can take their money away by using the RICO statute ?? Oh wait...once again that's THEIR RICO statute to use against the non-elites. My bad !! Too bad there aren't any laws to use against THEM !! Oh wait...they make the laws. My bad !!!

 
At 1:41 PM, Blogger Blueheron said...

Modusoperandi, you are incorrect.
Wyden did not vote for the Patriot Act extension.
He voted for the original Patriot Act, as did all but 1 senator, Russ Feingold of Minnesota. But Wyden was one of only 10 Senators who voted against reauthorization in 2006. He is not perfect but give some credit where credit is due.

And with the sentence "For all the Obama haters on the left and the right" Leslie Parsley exhibits a common rhetorical device of the right wing. If you criticize (fill in the blank) for doing something unambiguously wrong, then you hate them. And that list is quite the spin job. He has done some positive things, but it is just nibbling around the edges and never goes beyond what would anger his corporate paymasters. Kudos for creating jobs and reducing military waste when the official unemployment rate is sky high and we spend as much as the rest of the world combined on our military budget? Just to name 2 items.

 
At 3:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EE
said
"Maybe we can take their money away by using the RICO statute."

The dream of all hippies. live off someone else s money. Socialism works fine as long until you run out of money. Ask Greece.

 
At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Claude Balls said...

I'd like to let Mark Halperin share with us his view of President Obama.

Mark Halperin says “I think he was kind of a dick yesterday.” on the Morning Joe show.

I guess that makes the President in the same league as former Rep Anthony Weiner?

Mr. Halperin you are only saying that because you are a racist.

 
At 4:14 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

The dream of all you conservative capitalist pigs....to keep your ill gotten dirty money and not even pay taxes on it. Of course the money will run out with you greedy pigs hording it all in foreign bank accounts or wherever. Maybe if the greedy assholes who have 1000 times the amount of money they'll ever need were taxed the way they should be there would be some money for the rest of society. Then take away the MIC money and use it for a useful beneficial purpose so it will stimulate the so called economy. Of course the money will run out if it is concentrated in the hands of so few and is pissed away on things that provide no return whatsoever !! DUH !!

 
At 5:03 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Blueheron "Modusoperandi, you are incorrect. Wyden did not vote for the Patriot Act extension."
I did a search for something along the lines of "Patriot Act extension voting record" and failed to note the date on that one. Wyden's one of the better ones. My apologies.

 
At 6:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what is not "ill gotten dirty money"?

 
At 8:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like what?

 
At 12:58 PM, Anonymous Just the Facts! said...

MOE,

Happy Canada Day!!

 
At 1:27 PM, Anonymous Just the Facts! said...

Some said ACORN is gone? WRONG!

A Judicial Watch investigation has found that the Obama Administration recently violated the ban on federal funding for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) by giving the famously corrupt group tens of thousands of dollars in grants to “combat housing and lending discrimination.”

Congress passed a law (Defund ACORN Act) in 2009 to stop the huge flow of taxpayer money that annually went to ACORN after a series of exposés about the leftwing group’s illegal activities. Judicial Watch has been a leader in investigating ACORN by requesting public records and taking legal action to uncover details of its fraudulent voter registration drives, involvement in the housing market meltdown and its close ties to President Obama. Read all about it here.(www.judicialwatch.org/investigation-acorn)

This week a JW probe uncovered that Obama’s Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) recently awarded a $79,819 grant to an ACORN reincarnation called Affordable Housing Centers of America (AHCOA). Incredibly, the government’s federal expenditure website openly describes the recipient as ACORN Housing Corporation Inc. and lists the group’s New Orleans address at 1024 Elysian Fields.

HUD’s press release announcing the award is more discreet, however. It lists the recipient of the $79,819 grant as Florida-based Affordable Housing Centers of America, even though it’s the same ACORN offshoot. In all, HUD awarded 108 “fair housing organizations” more than $40 million to educate the public and combat discrimination. The allocation represents a $13.2 million increase over last year’s allotment to end housing discrimination against minorities.

 
At 5:33 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Just the Facts! "Some said ACORN is gone? WRONG!"
Did you think that because ACORN (comma organization) was gone that ACORN (comma groups and people that were member of) would all simply disappear?
What would the Rightwing use for casual race-baiting then? Birtherism? New Black Panthers? Van Jones? Shirley Sherrod? Eric Holder? Any black person even tangentially related to the Obama administration? Pah! You know damn well that Democrats are the real racists!©



* "Democrats are the real racists!" copyright Scared 'n' Angry Honkies, Inc.

 
At 11:55 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Gee, I wonder why Fox News didn't report this? Apparently Michelle Bachmann's not only a liar, but she's also a hypocrite.

 
At 9:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MOE, worried abut race baiting, now there's a hypocrite!

 
At 10:28 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

An interesting and amusing "dictograph" about the new queen of perverse comedy. Scroll down to She's crazy. My favorite: "We're running out of rich people in this country."

Idiocy reigns!

 
At 11:29 AM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous, kudos on your continued uselessness.

 
At 12:00 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, if you're having a difficult time with that big three-syllable word, maybe this will help...

 
At 3:44 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Happy Independence Day Weekend for those of you that abhor tyrannical government, to the extent you exist on this blog.

God,
I have done exactly that.

Ellis,
If people are paid nothing how can they be taxed? Do the math on low and middle income taxation and it is minimal. The poor actually can earn through taxation given the tax credits that exist.

Laneman
Corporations are ultimately owned by individuals who rely on them for their 401ks and pay taxes on gains and dividends they receive. Corporate taxes are a form of double taxation. On top of what they pay in straight federal income tax, corporations pay virtually all employment, health, commercial property taxes as well as licenses, leases and the collection of sales taxes. Us coporations are the highest taxed in the developed world. How much tax the government bueracracy produce???

TD,
Please refer me back to your blog highlighting the idiocy of BHO, who does nothing but fundraise, play golf and wage illegal wars on foreign countres and US citizens, who doesn't know the age of his own children or mistakes the number of mooselem states for the number of US states. And he is the smart one in the executive branch. Do that and I will take the time to rebut.

 
At 5:24 PM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

boltok "Do the math on low and middle income taxation and it is minimal. The poor actually can earn through taxation given the tax credits that exist."
Yeah! I'm with Boltok! Without paying in, they've got no skin in the game.
I mean, why should Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wyoming all get back more from the federal government than they put in?

"Corporations are ultimately owned by individuals who rely on them for their 401ks and pay taxes on gains and dividends they receive."
Yes, and by "individuals" he means that the bottom half of the population own .5% and the next 4/10ths have less than 10% of stock, bond and mutual funds. Everybody's in the market. It's just statistical liberal trickery that shows the top 10% with 90% of it.

"Us coporations are the highest taxed in the developed world."
Exactly. They're so heavily taxed that gov't revenues from them have been cut in half since the 1950s, and yet their meagre profits are only hitting record highs. In fact, their rate is so high (which, at 35%, is even higher [using Boltokian math] than Japan's at 39.5%) that most of them don't pay anywhere near that, and over half pay nothing at all at least one in seven years.

"Please refer me back to your blog highlighting the idiocy of BHO, who does nothing but fundraise, play golf and wage illegal wars on foreign countres and US citizens…"
Wow. That sounds just like the guy who came before him. I thought the problem was supposed to be, in part, that he was a commiesocialistliberal?

"who doesn't know the age of his own children"
Yeah! Take that, Obama! Calling a kid thirteen three days before her birthday is a terrible mistake! One that my parents made every year so that I'd shut up about it, already!

"or mistakes the number of mooselem states for the number of US states."
{citation needed} And if you're digging up the "57 states" gaffe, he was clearly talking about the 47 US states he'd visited, and the one more on his route. But kudos on your continued talent for, well, being you, you willfully ignorant, obstinate, Muslim-baiting piece of you, you.

 
At 5:37 PM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

Wups. My apologies to you, Boltok. I spoke out of turn and, in the heat of the moment, incorrectly described you. I'll try not to let such a terrible occurrence happen again, but when I referred to you as a "wilfully ignorant, obstinate, Muslim-baiting piece of you, you.", I forgot "sociopathic", "self-centered" and "bile-filled tumor".
Again, my apologies.

 
At 7:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

TheDemo KKK Rats (<----- Yes, my huffpo name got in just like the DemoHaters have their names) are the Party of The KKK, so now, the bigotted s-holes of the Left batter women,

This is a Hate Site, the Democrats and the Left pedal their hate and class warfare.

Degan writes for the party of the KKK.

TrashHead Left Wing Bigots like Ellis D. hate women who don't kill their children, have any of these wipes done anything like adopt foster children? Huh? No they haven't.

 
At 9:45 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Wow. Completely unhinged.

This is a Hate Site, the Democrats and the Left pedal their hate and class warfare. the party of the KKK. Left Wing Bigots, hate women who don't kill their children.

Here is a real example of radical Right Wing fascistic hatred. This is exactly how a cult indoctrinates its followers, how to despise those who challenge their narrow belief systems and to demonize them in the most horrible way. They must see others as monsters in order to give meaning to their wretched fear and loathing based politics.

Look no further. This is how fascism is rising in Amerika.

 
At 12:36 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "TheDemo KKK Rats (<----- Yes, my huffpo name got in just like the DemoHaters have their names) are the Party of The KKK..."
"Are"?

"...so now, the bigotted s-holes of the Left batter women..."
Lies! The Divine Michelle Obama has commanded that all Americans not deep fry!

"This is a Hate Site, the Democrats and the Left pedal their hate..."
Criticism ≠ hate

"...and class warfare."
Obviously. Trickle-Down/Supply Side Economics are not class warfare. The Ryan Budget is not class warfare.
"Hey, this 'trickle-down' thing, objectively, is not trickling down", "Maybe cutting grandma's Medicare because the invasion of Iraq, Bush-era 'temporary' tax cuts, and Wall Street pissed away the Treasury and broke the economy isn't really fair to grandma." or "How come 'spreading the sacrifice' means gutting Medicaid and Social Security for the poor or the old, and tax cuts for millionaires and corporations?", those are class warfare.

...

"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." ~ Warren Buffett

 
At 6:40 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you challenged with the following...

"TD, Please refer me back to your blog highlighting the idiocy of BHO, who does nothing but fundraise, play golf and wage illegal wars on foreign countres and US citizens, who doesn't know the age of his own children or mistakes the number of mooselem states for the number of US states. And he is the smart one in the executive branch. Do that and I will take the time to rebut."

Gee, Boltok, I'd say Modusoperandi returned your volley in totally magnificent form. The ball's in your court. Rebuttal please...

 
At 5:24 AM, Blogger Mack Lyons said...

"This is a Hate Site, the Democrats and the Left pedal their hate and class warfare. the party of the KKK. Left Wing Bigots, hate women who don't kill their children."

Once upon a time, people like the above were so few in number and so relatively unimportant, that you could afford to ignore them whenever they decided to psych themselves up on fundamentalist right-wing talking points.

Ignoring them was a mistake.

The Dems should have taken the proactive steps in placing their feet on the necks of this nonsense. Yeah, they'll look like jerks and assholes for doing so, but the GOP spends every waking moment being assholes and it doesn't bother them one bit.

On another note, I wholeheartedly believe that the biggest mistake the U.S. made was not liquidating the Confederacy and the ideology that was behind it when they had a chance to, shortly after the Civil War. Instead, the Civil War was treated like a spat between two brothers, and for the sake of family, all that bad water ended up under the bridge.

Now we're dealing with the dear brother, still nursing his emotional wounds from the ass-kicking of days past and the embarrassments occasionally suffered from time to time, figuring out how to steal the family inheritance, after taking over the family business, running it into the ground and stripping it clean of any assets before selling the husk to some venture capitalists from China for a windfall. He wants Me-maw in a nursing home (although he'd rather see her croak) and his nephew's pickaninny offspring banned from the premises.

Sooner or later, he's gonna get another ass-kicking, only this time his brother's not gonna help him to his feet and dust him off like nothing happened. Nope, he's gonna walk away and leave dear brother crumpled in the fetal position, allowing his defeat to finally sink in good and thorough-like.

 
At 9:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here are some of my favorite bumper stickers:

Still Blaming Bush?

I just got my "government stimulus"
BUT NOW MY ASS HURTS!


PS Can anyone tell me where is the Hope and Change? is it the higher unemployment and prices like the jimmy carter days?

 
At 11:43 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Dave Dubya said...
"Here is a real example of radical Right Wing fascistic hatred. This is exactly how a cult indoctrinates its followers, how to despise those who challenge their narrow belief systems and to demonize them in the most horrible way. They must see others as monsters in order to give meaning to their wretched fear and loathing based politics."

Three fingers pointing squarely back at you...

You people are joking, right?

 
At 12:04 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Typical Rightist view, calling out hatred and racism equals hatred and racism.

Ignorance is strength.

 
At 12:08 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you said...

"Can anyone tell me where is the Hope and Change?"

Certainly! Revoking corporate personhood would be the first step. Do you mean you haven't figured that out yet?

Also, in the way you framed the question, it appears you agree that there's no difference between Obama and his predecessor. I'm glad you finally see this.

My favorite bumper-stickers:

Corporations Are Now Legally People: Too Bad So Many Of Them Are SOCIOPATHS

We Already Have Death Panels: They're Called Insurance Companies

Jesus Was A Community Organizer

THE LABOR MOVEMENT: The Folks Who Brought You The Weekend

I'm for the SEPARATION of CHURCH AND HATE

 
At 3:45 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

"Typical Rightist view, calling out hatred and racism equals hatred and racism."

Explain how I am racist or what I hate. You cannot because you don't know me. Some of the most hateful rhetoric comes from the left posters. Just a fact. Own it.

Compare our respective posts.

Make some sense for crying out loud.

 
At 4:20 PM, Anonymous Just the Facts! said...

SEPARATION of CHURCH AND HATE: Agree, start with Rev. Wright, Pastor of the Presidents home church.

MOE, do you always post with your photo? Noticed some one is posting under your name without your photo, just wondering if you will take credit for those posts?

My favorite bumper sticker, as if any one cares:
"Man is not free unless government is limited."

 
At 4:46 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Just the Facts, depending on where I am, I can't post with the Google account sign-in thingy. You can still tell the other ones are mine, though. They smell like kiwi fruit!

 
At 7:07 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Harley,
I was clearly referring to a hateful accusatory remark. Then you jumped on me, Bub. You are the antagonist, sir. That is all I need to know about you. Even if you comprehended what I was saying, I don't need to explain anything to you.

In case you haven't noticed, I didn't accuse you of hate or racism.

Your reactionary defensive anger, on the other hand, suggests the possibility of such characteristics.

As of now, though, I hereby declare I do not accuse you of being a hateful racist.

In fact, my fellow enlightened commentors and I were the ones being accused, not you.

"This is a Hate Site, the Democrats and the Left pedal their hate and class warfare. the party of the KKK. Left Wing Bigots, hate women who don't kill their children."

I can make sense all day long, but that will still not make it sensible to some.

 
At 7:30 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley, I'm confident that Dave Dubya didn't have you in mind, as I see he just confirmed, since you haven't previously commented (that I can see) on this post.

He was referring to others, who shall remain nameless, because, really, is it actually necessary to name names?

If you're unable to acknowledge that other conservatives, who frequently visit this blog, are hateful and racist in their diatribes, than maybe we do know you -- all too well.

 
At 11:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So JG and DD is MOE a racist cause he said'

"Negroes were lazy and sneaky"?

Just asking that's all.

 
At 11:40 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Ok, let's play to the emotional level of our simple authoritarian following fellows. Just this once.

"I know you are, but what am I?"

Now, no more attention for childish attention-seeking behavior.

 
At 11:46 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

The most hateful comments on this blog are not from the "right". While I don't feel I was being attacked personally, I stand by my corrective.

I don't like hateful speech by anyone. But, it is hard for folks not to engage in it when the tone is set by the author on a regular basis.

 
At 11:50 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Believe me, my friend, I am far from childish.

But, since you continue to press. Please reference the hateful/racist speech you felt so compelled to call out.

 
At 12:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man is not free unless government is limited.

 
At 12:26 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Harley,
Once again you take my response regarding another's comment as directed at you.

This is beginning to look like a complex of some sort.

Since you have the guts to identify yourself, unlike others, I will address you when I direct a comment at you.

"Please reference the hateful/racist speech you felt so compelled to call out."

I did, twice, if you'd only look.

Now I have to ask, are you joking?

 
At 3:40 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley, you said...

"I don't like hateful speech by anyone. But, it is hard for folks not to engage in it when the tone is set by the author on a regular basis."

I agree with you regarding your first sentence. Regarding your second, however, I disagree with both of your claims.

Furthermore, if you feel the author engages in "hateful speech", and I'm assuming it offends you, why do you continue to return?

As far as I know, Mr. Degan has never engaged in the inflammatory hate speech that you claim. He has never been denigrating of anyone due to race, gender, sexual orientation, age, or national origin. I agree, however, that he has called many people out, notably conservatives, for either their stupidity or dishonesty (or both!). That, my friend, is fair game and would never be considered, in a court of law, "hateful speech" -- just the truth.

As far as conservatives who have expressed "hateful speech" on this particular blog, and who I've -- on more than one occasion -- pointed out to them, let me remind you of the antics of Anonymous (on many occasions) or Browns44 (who hasn't returned, at least under that moniker, since I planted his nose in it a number of weeks ago) -- naming just a couple.

Get real, Harley. You're grasping at straws.

 
At 4:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JG would you call this racist or hateful speech?

Lazy and sneaky Negroes.

 
At 6:05 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, it depends. How was it used -- in what context? Was it used to highlight or explain or describe -- metaphorically, rhetorically, or otherwise, another party's behavior or mindset? Was figurative language used, such as a "figure of speech", to exaggerate or alter the usual meanings of the component words, or was it used literally? Was it used as a simile, a metaphor, or as hyperbole?

Please explain to me. Please quote the exact way it was used, in reference to what question, and the totality of the way the response was given.

Then, and only then, will I give you my answer.

Court is adjourned! ;-)

 
At 6:27 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

JG,
I think I can offer the next Anonymous response and save him/them the brain strain.

JG would you call this racist or hateful speech?

Lazy and sneaky Negroes.

You didn't answer the question. Than means you are a hateful racist.

And I did not use hateful or racist speech. Only liberals are racists.


Hey, you know what I just learned?

It feels kinda good to say stupid things. No wonder they love it.

Ignorance is strength.

 
At 6:35 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

No doubt, Dave. They are ignorant. And, as you know, that's exactly why we're in the mess we're in.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT HATEFUL SPEECH.

 
At 6:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, how were Browns44 words used,where they "used to highlight or explain or describe -- metaphorically, rhetorically, or otherwise, another party's behavior or mindset? Was figurative language used, such as a "figure of speech", to exaggerate or alter the usual meanings of the component words, or was it used literally? Was it used as a simile, a metaphor, or as hyperbole? In what context where they used?
Were they about a race (Negroes) like Modusoperandi words or were they about a religion that has followers from many races?

Is it only hate speech if you do not agree with the posters political position?
How do you draw the line? Are you saying that all Muslims are of one race?
Does that mean that all Christians are now one race? Or Hindus? Are you now the only person who can define what racism/hate speech is? Are you a Muslim, are you Black? What is your authority, where does it come from, who gave it to you?
I think you are in a very, very weak position to be calling one person's posting as hate speech and to give a pass on another.
"Court is adjourned! ;-)", if you say so, since you are the self appointed expert.

 
At 6:51 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

JG,
When Bill Maher featured Andrew Breitbart as a guest on “Real Time”, he asked if it was possible that people were racist without their knowing it. Breitbart responded, “I don’t understand the question”. I believe that perfectly answered the question.

 
At 6:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hold on JG and DD, I take offense at your calling me ignorant because you do not agree with me.
Just because I am a conservative does not mean I lack intelligence. You do not know me,so to claim I and all other conservatives are ignorant is the same as Modusoperandi stating Negroes are lazy and sneaky. Does he know every Black person in the world so that he can support that statement? Can you say you know every Conservative in the world so you can support your statement?
I doubt it, which means your are lumping all Conservative/Rightys in the same pile by an assumption that they are all alike. Is that racism?
Or hate speech, or is it just unsupportable weak logic on your part?
It is your name calling that is the hate speech, regardless of what you may think.
"Court is adjourned! ;-)"

 
At 7:06 PM, Anonymous ModusAnonymous said...

JG said:

"No doubt, Dave. They are ignorant."

No JG, only ignorant people spout phoney facts like over 50% of the federal budget is spent on Defense!

how many sock puppets does Tommy the marxist have on here?

 
At 7:09 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

This is the ignorance of which we speak:

You do not know me,so to claim I and all other conservatives are ignorant is the same as Modusoperandi stating Negroes are lazy and sneaky.

Your own words invite the description. Not your disagreement with ours.

See the difference? I didn't think so.

 
At 7:16 PM, Anonymous ModusAnonymous said...

"Lazy and sneaky Negroes."


I may be wrong but should Negroes have an e after the o? Is the all knowing central planner of society and economics, JG, here to answer?

If negroe can have an extra e why can't potato?

 
At 7:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

DD,
So did the super wise, very smart middle of the road Bill Maher explain his question? In a civil discourse it doesn't sound like to big of a deal to ask some one to explain their question. Unless of course the intent behind the question is to prove how ignorant the other person is. Then could you call that question "hate speech"?

 
At 7:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really DD, dare I ask you to explain your position?
Or am I to beleive that you have met all conservatives in the world and found them all to be ignorant?

I do find it amusing that in your reply to me, you did not include my entire statement, which if you recall JG's claim that he would have to know more about the statement, makes your doing so, look a little bit like hate speech.
After all, do you know Modusoperandi or only know what he has written? So since he has written "lazy, sneaky Negroes" does that make him a racist and is that "hate speech'? If not does that make you a racist, or as Mr. Maher asked, would you know?

"See the difference? I didn't think so."

 
At 7:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI socialists/marxists:

Ronald Reagan was known as "The Great Communicator." What isn't well-known is just how hard he worked to earn that title. One of his secrets was a stack of 3 x 5 inch note cards that he compiled throughout his public life. Consisting of quotes, economic statistics, jokes and anecdotes, they became the core of Ronald Reagan's traveling research files.

An annotated selection of those cards has just been published as a book. "The Notes: Ronald Reagan's Private Collection of Stories and Wisdom" is edited by historian Douglas Brinkley, and the book's release is being accompanied by a display of some of the note cards at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, Calif.

 
At 8:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now the next question DD and JG need to answer is, if they see racism and do not call it same, are they then racists full of hate speech towards others? Due to their not doing any thing? Or are not aware of racism when they see it?
They can only answer.

 
At 8:24 PM, Anonymous Joe Biden said...

Its the economy stupid!

 
At 8:34 PM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

Jefferson's Guardian "Anonymous, it depends. How was it used -- in what context? Was it used to highlight or explain or describe -- metaphorically, rhetorically, or otherwise, another party's behavior or mindset?"
I used it as a loaded word to add rhetorical punch to the rightwing timeline of the Mortgage Crisis by using a word that they go out of their way to use without actually using the word itself. Using a dogwhistle, as it were, to bring attention to the actual dogwhistle.

Dave Dubya "When Bill Maher featured Andrew Breitbart as a guest on 'Real Time', he asked if it was possible that people were racist without their knowing it."
The answer is yes.

Anonymous "...is the same as Modusoperandi stating Negroes are lazy and sneaky. Does he know every Black person in the world so that he can support that statement?"
You're still not listening. Try to read it this time. In good faith. For comprehension.

ModusAnonymous "No JG, only ignorant people spout phoney facts like over 50% of the federal budget is spent on Defense!"
{citation provided}. Again. Again. Try to read it this time. In good faith. For comprehension.

 
At 8:39 PM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

Joe Biden "Its the economy stupid!"
Can you tell Obama (And the GOP. And the Blue Dogs. And yourself) that? He seems to have decided on repeating the mistake of 1937 (remarkably, at the insistence of the same kind of people that pushed it last time).

 
At 8:51 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JG/DD -

As with childishness, I am far from ignorant. I may not always draw the right conclusions on every issue, but I’m not ignorant. I’m not ignorant of the popular understanding of “hate speech” as has been arbitrarily designed by social engineers. I realize your understanding is that any over-generalization, any filthy language, any degrading comment is okay as long as it’s not pointed at a person for race, sex, gender, age, ad nauseum...

I do not hold to that limited view of hateful speech. I continue to come out here (this blog) BECAUSE it is so far from what I consider to be civil discourse. I like to point out to folks when they are logically inconsistent, over-generalizing, etc. I don’t hold that every “right wing” opinion expressed is free from it, either. Nor do I hold everything expressed by every “left winger” as free from some truth. Most everything expressed has a kernel of truth.

What I hate is when people brush with overly broad strokes and lump “conservatives” conveniently into a bucket.

I’ve been called ignorant (and much worse) out here simply because I held a dissenting opinion. This IS a hateful site at times if you allow for a broader definition of hate. I consider knee-jerk generalizations, calling whole geographical regions out as ignorant, or using sophomoric vulgarity to shout down a dissenting opinion as hateful.

Having said all of that, I will likely agree with some of what you say and may call you out if I feel it is warranted. If I do so hatefully, forgive me - I don’t intend to.

It’s 100 degrees here so maybe I’m crankier than usual.

 
At 9:38 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley, don't you think you're confusing "hateful speech" with "offensive speech"?

There is a difference.

 
At 11:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harley,
Don't you love it how liberals when confronted with questions they don't want to answer deflect to something else. No answers to my questions about racism, yet they feel they hold the "high"ground on determining who is racist and who is not.
Sad.

 
At 11:56 PM, Anonymous James said...

I think an excellent topic for discussion here would be the growing police state that the US is becoming. I would like to hear the opinions of the Conservatives here regarding the recent Supreme Court decisions regarding police powers. The TSA is becoming another brown shirt army and getting larger by the day. I wonder why Tom never brings these topics up?

 
At 8:16 AM, Anonymous Just the Facts! said...

TSA: against their current policy's, like unionization, which with a government worker leads to gross incompetence and poor work ethics. When was the last time a Govt. worker was fired?

Some one quoted Ronald Reagan in an earlier post without giving his name as the source.

"Man is not free, unless Government is limited", Ronald Reagan.
The irony is that liberals by their own name, should be for this freedom, but by their support of bigger government IE Govt provided health care, retirement pension, education, bale outs with strings, to name a few,they have given up their freedom in exchange for the promise of care from big Government.
Big Govt. waste. Current WH employees 454 staffers with an average wage of $81,765 before benefits!
As long ago as 2009, the USPS paid $50,000,000 a yer to employees for "standby time". Mail volume is down 12.6 percent compared with last year, and many postal supervisors simply don’t have enough work to keep all employees busy. But a thicket of union rules prevents managers from laying off excess employees; a recent agreement with the unions, in fact, temporarily prevents the Postal Service from even reassigning them to other facilities that could use them."

The more government spends to provide, the more freedoms you lose.



"Man is not free unless government is limited." Ronald Reagan

 
At 10:25 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

James,
There you are. To the Left, Tyranny is warrentless surveillance, torture, Patriot Act abuses of our Bill of Rights, and war based on falsehoods.

The Right's idea of tyranny are Contstitutional taxes and regulations. Oh, and let's not forget the terrible oppression from health care, public services, infrastructure and education. Oh, the horror!

You get the picture. Unless our tax dollars are re-distributed to the pockets of crony corporatists and billionaires, it's tyranny.

This is the essence of Corporatist Republicanism, cleverly masked under the guise of "conservatism" in order to dupe those who have the most to lose from their trickle up agenda.

 
At 10:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So James what do you think is better, DD's vision or JTF's?
Interestingly, DD wants freedom from govt laws so he can use his favorite drug, but doesn't want govt to stop taking care of him.
Wonder if he really expects to have it both ways?
But as normal, with DD, he attacks what he thinks is the boogie man which is corporate America, IE big business, with out addressing your question.
Go figure.

 
At 11:48 AM, Anonymous James said...

Unlike the other Liberals here, I do not care to respond to an anonymous person. Keeping track of several people using anonymous is a time waster. Type in a name and I will respond.

 
At 1:28 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

James, you said...

"I would like to hear the opinions of the Conservatives here regarding the recent Supreme Court decisions regarding police powers."

I doubt whether any right-winger would respond to this, truthfully anyway, simply because they favor and adore a strong police-state. They're enthralled with militarism and military occupation. It really excites them. Consequently, they're undoubtedly delighted when police powers are enhanced, even when those powers are contrary to Fourth, Fifth, or even Sixth Amendment, protections.

If you do get a response, expect to get some real tap-dancing on this topic.

 
At 1:52 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, inquiring of James, you asked...

"...what do you think is better, DD's vision or JTF's?"

Just the Facts! has vision?! Really?! More like blindness; severe, disabling, debilitating blindness. So blind, in fact, that he can't see the true menace and threat to his well-being. He staggers through the day, bumping into, and grasping onto, anything that will sustain his misguided belief for another day. He's no different than most hardcore and belligerent believers of the corporate-state. He thinks he's part of the elite...the few...the righteous, but he's being played for a sucker by those who want him to keep thinking this way. He's easily deceived and victimized, as are millions of others just like him, and lives in a fool's paradise; a state of false happiness based upon a false hope; a hope based upon the "American Dream" of unimaginable riches and wealth for those who work hard and exalt and bow to the true almighty, the godhead called predatory capitalism. The sad thing, though, which is really ironic, is he'll be the next one they consume and throw away. He thinks he's invincible; he thinks he's immune. Because, after all, he thinks he's one of them. But he's not. He just hasn't figured that out yet.

 
At 2:00 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Dave Dubya.....I think the reason for the different definitions of tyranny on the Right and the Left can be easily explained. The Right values money foremost and looks for ways to greedily horde it to the detriment of society. The Left on the other hand values FREEDOM foremost and expects the Constitutional protections provided to citizens in the Bill of Rights will be honored in spite of the fact that such protections make law enforcement difficult. That is the PURPOSE of such rights, to make law enforcement difficult. DUH !!! That's why a police state is favored by the Right, they know white collar crime gets a pass so they'll be safe. The Left has a lot of poor and minorities in its ranks which give law enforcement plenty of fodder to fill the privatized prisons with free labor. As I have said before this is by DESIGN not accidental or unintentional. In the end you non-elite right-wingers will be just as screwed as the lefties. Wait and see !!

 
At 3:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I doubt whether any right-winger would respond to this, truthfully anyway, simply because they favor and adore a strong police-state. They're enthralled with militarism and military occupation. It really excites them."

"He (JTF's) thinks he's part of the elite...the few...the righteous,

Support your statements JG with sources.

"The Right values money foremost and looks for ways to greedily horde it to the detriment of society. The Left on the other hand values FREEDOM foremost and expects the Constitutional protections provided to citizens in the Bill of Rights will be honored in spite of the fact that such protections make law enforcement difficult."

Support your statement EE with soures.

While we are at it, JG how about replying to thus post.

"Well, how were Browns44 words used,where they "used to highlight or explain or describe -- metaphorically, rhetorically, or otherwise, another party's behavior or mindset? Was figurative language used, such as a "figure of speech", to exaggerate or alter the usual meanings of the component words, or was it used literally? Was it used as a simile, a metaphor, or as hyperbole? In what context where they used?
Were they about a race (Negroes) like Modusoperandi words or were they about a religion that has followers from many races?

Is it only hate speech if you do not agree with the posters political position?
How do you draw the line? Are you saying that all Muslims are of one race?
Does that mean that all Christians are now one race? Or Hindus? Are you now the only person who can define what racism/hate speech is? Are you a Muslim, are you Black? What is your authority, where does it come from, who gave it to you?
I think you are in a very, very weak position to be calling one person's posting as hate speech and to give a pass on another.
"Court is adjourned! ;-)", if you say so, since you are the self appointed expert."

 
At 4:04 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

You want a source ?? Try the American Civil Liberties Union ( ACLU ) or National Organization For Reform Of Marijuana Laws ( NORML ) for starters. Then checkout AlterNet and Truthdig. I'm sure there will be some big words you don't understand but you'll get the idea....BTW the goal of the establishment is to divide us into hateful groups. It wants us only to see our differences and not the commonality of our interests. In reality ALL non-elites should be banding together against the elites. United we stand, divided we fall !!

 
At 4:14 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Ellis and James,
We shouldn't expect any criticism of police powers from Righties. Note the faint buzzzing of insects and sounds of crickets we hear from the Right on the matter.

The Rightists only repeat what they're told to think, and they are obviously not indoctrinated to question police state power.

When one questions a cult member about freedom, he can only say his cult is freedom.

Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. War is peace.

“I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.” - George W. Bush

 
At 4:21 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

George Orwell would love that Bush quote !!

 
At 4:48 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you stated...

"Support your statements JG with sources."

I don't need to. You're the source. You're the proof. You're the epitome of the corporate-state worshiping wannabe.

As far as your other gibberish that you want me to reply to, there's no need to. Modusoperandi more than adequately, and comprehensively, answered and detailed every possible question you could have. But, there's one problem: YOU HAVE TO READ IT!!

By the way, speaking of Modusoperandi, he's completely correct about one other thing -- you are totally useless.

 
At 5:10 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 5:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EE, DD, JG, nice hate speech you got there, fits you guys real well.

EE so you would agree that for you to have the freedom to smoke dope, government must have it's power limited?

 
At 5:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As far as your other gibberish that you want me to reply to, there's no need to. Modusoperandi more than adequately, and comprehensively, answered and detailed every possible question you could have. But, there's one problem: YOU HAVE TO READ IT!!"

JG this speaks volumes about you, demanding someone read a post while your refuse to read one yourself. Love those two faced hypocritical liberals, do what I say not what I do, because "I beleive there are 57 state in the Union". Oops, that wasn't JG but President Obama who said that, right DD?
And by the way, I did criticize the abuses of TSA but you seem to have "over looked" that in your rush to shit on me.

EE, great source of non biased information you sited there. Bet you can find all kinds of bad things being said about USA in those publications, do me a favor and site some good things they say, since they are so all opened minded.
ACLU/NORML not sources the NY times quotes. But as you are a one position player (allow EE to smoke his favorite dope and not fear the "pigs) is anyone really surprised?

 
At 6:10 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "...because 'I beleive there are 57 state in the Union'. Oops, that wasn't JG but President Obama who said that, right DD?"
"Because it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon. In the last 15 months we've traveled to every corner of the United States. We've now been in, uh, 57 states...5­7 with one left to go, Alaska and Hawaii I was not allowed to go to, even though I really wanted to visit, because my staff would not justify it....."
You know, bring up something that's already been answered over and over in the past few years, including earlier on this very page, makes you look, well, like you.

"EE, great source of non biased information you sited there. Bet you can find all kinds of bad things being said about USA in those publications, do me a favor and site some good things they say, since they are so all opened minded."
Yeah, EE. And while you're at find the police talking well about about all the people they are not arresting.
Also, for irony; found on the frontpage of ACLU.org, The Good and the Bad of the Warsame Case.
Lastly, with "Bet you can find all kinds of bad things being said about USA in those publications", you're conflating the country with the actions of some of the people in it.

 
At 6:28 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

To the sane readers:

Anonymous said ,“I did criticize the abuses of TSA but you seem to have "over looked" that in your rush to shit on me.”

Isn’t it interesting that the only mention of TSA is by someone lying, er, commenting under the name of “Just the facts” about “Unionization” having some imagined connection to police powers?

It seems we have a multiple personality disorder, among other emotional and psychological conditions, affecting our radical cult members.

Or maybe they are, or he is, just pathologically lying. Hard to imagine....

I’m done with these wretched two-faced lying trolls. No hate. Just the Facts.

 
At 6:48 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Government must have its power limited when government action infringes upon FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHTS. The limits you conservatives despise are REASONABLE regulations that serve to benefit society. Such as having the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes as previously discussed in this blog. The right to smoke dope as you put it is a fundamental human right that SHOULD be constitutionally protected. There was a reason alcohol prohibition required a constitutional amendment. The establishment knew damn well people had a right to drink alcohol. To avoid an unconstitutional law the amendment banning alcohol was passed thereby negating that possibility. No such amendment was passed regarding other drugs. Just mere laws which if these judges didn't have their heads up their asses would be struck down as violations of the Fourteenth Amendment LIBERTY protections not to mention First Amendment religious freedom. So yeah government power should be limited when it comes to civil rights. Not so limited in handling wealth distribution and other social equality issues.

 
At 7:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh My God, you people are fucking stupid.
Moe,
JG
EE
DD

 
At 7:08 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Dave Dubya "Isn’t it interesting that the only mention of TSA is by someone lying, er, commenting under the name of 'Just the facts'..."
It's weirder than that. The smear of the unionization of "a government worker leads to gross incompetence and poor work ethics" leads me to wonder what the excuse was before, since they basically just unionized (and even now it's still limited rights).
What's going to happen when the Right notices that private companies have contracts for screening, too?
If "government can't work" and "unions can't work", what happens when non-union private companies have results that are no better than the unionized public worker bogeyman, which is what has been happening since at least 2004?

 
At 7:09 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "Oh My God, you people are fucking stupid. Moe, JG EE DD"
At worst that's a tu quoque.

 
At 7:11 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

No we are very intelligent and well educated. You folks are brainwashed morons !! No role call, I don't want to miss anyone. You all know who you are !!

 
At 7:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey Ellis D., Esq

how bad was that brown acid at Woodstock?

is hydoponic pot the best way to grow killer weed nowadays?

yeah i like cheech and chong too!

 
At 7:57 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Hey. anonymous....

That brown acid - weird as it might be - is a heck-of-alot healthier than the Kool-Aid you've been drinking, pal. Just a thought.

peace....

Tom Degan

 
At 8:28 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

I don't know about the brown acid since I was not at Woodstock. I prefer soil and sun. I'm way more funny than Cheech & Chong. I just don't get paid for it. Why don't you rebut my arguments instead of asking stupid diversionary questions ?? Oh wait I know why...you're an asshole !!!

 
At 11:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe I am an asshole, put sadly, I'm not a perfect asshole like you Ellis.

 
At 12:10 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you angrily stated...

"Oh My God, you people are fucking stupid. Moe, JG EE DD"

Gee, Anonymous, I'm crushed that you didn't put me at the top of your list. I feel like a failure. Please, tell me, what I can do better to make sure I'm at the top the next time? Do I need more hyperlinks? More sarcasm? What?! What is it?! I'll try to do better! I really will! Just give me another chance...

Modusoperandi, you better watch your back. I plan on taking that number one seed from you the next go-around. ;-)

Ellis & Dave, like Avis, you'll just have to try a little harder...

 
At 1:47 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Hey Anonymous...why don't you more descriptively post your comments as " Anusymous " ?? That way we can be sure its you !!!

 
At 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JG you are a failure.
As a human, as a man, as an American Citizen.

 
At 4:10 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

No, Anonymous, you're the failure. Granted, we both agree that our economy's on the verge of going over a cliff, but you continually refuse to turn around to see who's pushing it.

That's why you're the failure. You're promoting it and contributing to it.

Thanks a lot!

 
At 4:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

off work again today JG, how much do you do to improve our economy by working and paying income tax?

 
At 7:12 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you asked...

"...how much do you do to improve our economy by working and paying income tax?"

Every day, my friend, every day. And, I pay my share of taxes and would gladly pay more if necessary.

That's why it's called living in a "society". Taxes are needed to serve the common good. Otherwise, if you don't like it, go live in a cave or on a deserted island. Nobody will bother you to pay taxes if you choose either one.

Fair question. Now, please answer the same for me.

 
At 3:15 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JG –
In short I don’t see hateful/offensive as a dichotomy. Hatefulness is objective, whereas offensiveness is subjective. But, I have more issue with the use of the word “hate” and how it’s been co-opted.

The word “hate” has been politicized to elevate a crime against a particular class of people above the same crime against a non-protected class. Any violent crime is hateful. If I kill a man because I want his wallet, it is no less hateful than if I kill him because he is a homosexual or because of his race. Ultimately, my thought process, while not insignificant, is irrelevant to the violent act. More importantly, my thought process is open to interpretation and not privy to anyone besides myself and God. While you can adequately assess my act of violence, you cannot adequately assess my thoughts or motives in all cases. The “hate crime” has come into vogue as an instrument of thought control. Its intent is to punish a legal thought (such as “I believe homosexuality is immoral”) by equivalence with an illegal and immoral act of violence. It is a semantic exercise by advocates of, for example, the homosexual lifestyle to criminalize their critics.

What’s more interesting is the concept of hate itself in the context of today’s guiding philosophies. In our post-modern society, any thought or action can be seen as hateful, when each person is the measure of his own morality. (i.e. - if I don’t like what you say, then it’s hateful.) Whoever screams louder or garners the most attention, wins. But, the concept of hate really only has meaning in the context of an absolute moral code. Only then can anything be deemed as hateful, because to deem something hateful must involve an absolute basis to make the claim. Not to be thwarted, as they must always do, post-moderns like to borrow moral capital when it suits them – such as in this situation. Then, they’ll deny absolute morality exists two minutes later.

 
At 8:12 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Harley A. "If I kill a man because I want his wallet, it is no less hateful than if I kill him because he is a homosexual or because of his race."
They are different. One has you harming the man because of the object, while the other has you harming the man because of the man.
I can give you my wallet when you rob me, but I can't give you my color or sexual orientation.

"While you can adequately assess my act of violence, you cannot adequately assess my thoughts or motives in all cases."
Not in all. In some. If you brag about having gone out the night before and robbing a man, it's unlikely to have been a hate crime, but if you brag about having gone out and "killing a fag", then the motivation is different.

"The 'hate crime' has come into vogue as an instrument of thought control. Its intent is to punish a legal thought (such as 'I believe homosexuality is immoral') by equivalence with an illegal and immoral act of violence."
Don't conflate speech with action. The Christian Right does that all the time (commonly they say Hate Crimes legislation as "preventing us from preaching the Bible from our pulpit").
You can say whatever you want about those of the "the homosexual lifestyle". It only becomes a crime when word turns to action.

"But, the concept of hate really only has meaning in the context of an absolute moral code."
So, absolutely, is slavery wrong?

 
At 10:03 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

MO -

First, I didn’t say they were equivalent in every way. I said killing someone is hateful in and of itself. To argue otherwise is silly. Of course motives differ. As for the politicization of "hate", I stand by that.

“Don’t conflate speech with action.”
I’m doing the opposite. I’m separating the two.

“So, absolutely, is slavery wrong?”
You tell me as long as you provide your standard.

 
At 10:48 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley, you said...

"If I kill a man because I want his wallet, it is no less hateful than if I kill him because he is a homosexual or because of his race."

I have to totally agree with Modusoperandi's rebuttal. The difference is obvious to me. Additionally, I don't believe all killing is based upon "hateful [feelings] in and of itself". An example would be self-defense. There, it's pure survival.

"While you can adequately assess my act of violence, you cannot adequately assess my thoughts or motives in all cases."

No, not in all cases. Again, I refer to Modusoperandi's reply. In these cases (bragging about it), I believe the motivation is clear. Don't you?

"First, I didn’t say they were equivalent in every way. I said killing someone is hateful in and of itself."

The motivations may not be equivalent, but the "action" ends with the same result: death. That's when the rule of law (interprested by a jury of "your peers" convened to render an impartial verdict) decides whether it was justifiable homicide. An "absolute moral code" would be meaningless in this (self-defense) situation.

I don't want an absolute moral code ruling my life. You may desire this for yourself, and that's fine, but your personal sense of morality shouldn't have a bearing on mine. I prefer the state's concept of the "rule of law".

 
At 7:18 PM, Anonymous The Common Progressive said...

What a great posting! I am loving the GOP at the moment, short on substance and plenty of political theater. While it's not the ideal scenario for the country, it's a political bloggers dream come true!

Tom- You have no idea how much I appreciate your links to my blog, The Common Progressive. Cheers!

 
At 1:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey tom,

I have to take issue with you when you say that Romney is the biggest threat to Obama that the Reps have. I don't think Obama has anything to worry about with Romney because of the arguement that can be made regarding the similarities of their respective Health Care Plans. Huntsman might be a threat but we shall see. I am hoping and praying that the Repubilcan frontrunner is not yet known because frankly I don't see a winner among any of the current candidates.

Tom V.

 

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