Thursday, May 05, 2011

Reflections on September 11

In the early morning hours of May 2, 2011, just hours after President Obama announced the death of Osama bin Laden, I added the following afterthought to the piece I had posted on this site two days before. Just in case you missed it first time 'round, here it is again for old time's sake:

Here's something you can take to the bank:

Within less than a week, a whole new cottage industry will arise from our otherwise screwed economy that will deny that Osama bin Laden has been killed; that the president manufactured this whole thing to bring his approval ratings up; that Osama was actually killed by the Bush administration four - five - whatever - years ago. I can just hear them now:

"SHOW ME THE DEATH CERTIFICATE!"

"THEY THREW HIS BODY INTO THE SEA? HOW CONVENIENT!!!"

Fasten your seat belts, boys and girls! Here come the Deathers!

Did I say "within less than a week"? What was I thinking? It started within twenty-four hours. These nitwits are as predictable as the setting sun. Life is beautiful.

The announcement of Osama's killing brought back a flood of nasty memories. On the night of Sunday, September 9, 2001, I gave my ex-brother-in-law Bob Borski a ride from Goshen NY, where he had spent the weekend, to his apartment in Brooklyn. At the time he was wedded to my youngest sibling Sally. Bob and sister Sal have since divorced. Shit happens.

At exactly 10:30 PM, less than thirty-six hours before they came crashing down to eternity, we drove right under the Twin Towers. I used to live in New York City back in the eighties and had been down there many times since. But this was the first time I had been that far downtown at night in well over a decade. I remember thinking that I had forgotten how beautiful those two buildings looked up close, illuminating the Manhattan night.

As I looked upward at the World Trade Center through the car's sun roof, the bombing of it's parking garage in 1993 crossed my mind, and I related to Bob my fear of another terrorist attack. I speculated that two or three privately owned DC 10 air crafts, their aisles filled with 55 gallon drums of gasoline, would take one or both of those towers down in a matter of minutes (I never - for the life of me - even considered hijacked passenger planes). While Bob was open to the possibility of the means he was, for g
ood reasons, skeptical as to the ends:

"Those build
ings are pretty sturdy, Tom".

"I don't know, Bob", I replied, "Enough fuel would melt that steel skeleton like butter".

Two days later, on the morning of September 11th the telephone rang, awaking me out of a sound sleep. It was my sister Carol on the other end with the news that a plane had just crashed into one of the Twin Towers. She was amazed that a pilot could be so careless. I knew damned well that it was no accident, this was an act of terrorism. Bob, who was working right around the corner at the offices of American International Group (AIG), knew it, too. He later told me that the first thing that crossed his mind at the sound of the first explosion was our conversation of two nights before.

"I don't think that anyone could have foreseen planes flying into these buildings".

-Condoleeza Rice

FULL DISCLOSURE:
I dropped out of High School at the beginning of my Junior year. I'm just sayin'.

I spent all of that anguished morning and well into the afternoon in the kitchen of the home of my uncle and aunt, Tom and Elaine Cullen (both now deceased). Their daughter Patricia worked in the first building to be hit. She called home on her cell phone to reassure us that she was within a few minutes of getting out. Ten minutes later the building came crashing down. For four horrible hours there was not a word from her. Although no one could bear to verbalize it, we were all convinced that she was lost forever. Finally she was able to get through. "I'm okay", Trish Cullen told her mom and dad. She had escaped with only two minutes to spare. She had been unable to get through because, as you can imagine, every communication circuit was jammed. September 11, 2001 was that kind of day.

God smiles on the Cullen family.

I've always been against the death penalty. It is my belief that everyone - regardless of their sins - has the potential to become a saint. I took a waiver this time, though. Osama bin Laden was beyond redemption. I thought that the celebration which greeted the news of his demise was a bit over-the-top; more than anything it was a time for sorrowful reflection on what happened to this country on that awful day ten years ago. It makes me uncomfortable to see the execution of anyone greeted with cries of joy. But I guess the American people can be forgiven their jubilation. Good riddance to the murderous bastard.

As might be expected, the president's approval ratings shot up a full ten points the following day. The right wing media machine immediately went into overtime. They will be spending the next few weeks working furiously to to make damned sure that those same numbers go right back down again. They have already started to badger him for not releasing the photographs of bin Laden's body. Had he done so, they would now be badgering him for releasing them. He's danged it he does and danged if he don't. This is what they do - and they do it quite well, don't they?

I am of two minds about making these photos public. At first I thought they should be shown to the world for no other reason than to shut the conspiracy theorists up. On further reflection however, I have to concede that the prez did the right thing by keeping them hidden. As Chris Matthews pointed out on his program last night, the minute that photo is put out there, it goes viral. The last thing we need is Osama's base in a blind rage at the liberties the cyber-comedians out there would undoubtedly take with the photo-shopped image of his bloated and bloodied corpse. Bury it - and him - forever.

What is most amusing is watching the GOP spin machine trying to rewrite history. They're trying to give George W. Bush credit for this! Isn't that a scream? What they fail to mention is that three years after 9/11, Bush shut down the military unit which had been put together by Bill Clinton to kill or capture bin Laden. When he was asked to justify his actions, he made the following, jaw-dropping statement:

"To tell you the truth, I don't spend much time thinking about the guy."

Within a month of taking office President Obama put the unit back together. Bush deserves not an ounce of credit for this. Some people are surprised that the former president will not be showing up at the ceremony that will be taking place at ground zero this morning. I'm not surprised at all. In fact I can't say that I blame him in the least. If I were George W. Bush I'd be ashamed to show up, too. It's reassuring to find out that the guy has a conscience.

Another knee-slapping bit of revisionism on their part is with regard to "enhanced interrogations" (or "Torture", as defined by the Geneva Conventions). "SEE???", they gloat, "WATER BOARDING REALLY WORKS!!!"

REALITY CHECK:
It doesn't. The information which led to bin Laden's courier was obtained through "traditional" methods of interrogation. This has been established beyond a doubt. Donald Rumsfeld even admitted as much - early on. This was before the right wing propaganda machine handed him the new script. He changed his story within hours. Are you surprised?

This is a good time to be Barack Obama (or "Bareback Alabama" as Spell Check tells me his name should be spelled). Election Day 2012 is exactly a year-and-a-half from tomorrow. And while that may be a very long time in terms of politics, certain realities make it clear that the guy is in a very enviable position. Is there any hope for the Republican party at the dawn of this campaign season? Well, yeah. The ghost of Teddy Roosevelt could rise from the dead tonight and seize the mantle of standard bearer, leading the Grand Old Party to the political Candy Land - but other than that I don't think there is a hell-of-a-lot of room for optimism.

There is also a grand window of opportunity here for the president. We originally went into Afghanistan to "get" Osama bin Laden. He's been gotten. It's time to get out of there.

Obama is having his JFK/Cuban Missile Crisis moment. Will the momentum take him to the autumn of 2012? At this point the only thing that will prevent him from easily sailing back into the White House on January 20, 2013. will be a blunder of such monumental proportions it renders his administration crippled. Or perhaps a nasty scandal. It's always possible that the Republicans will "manufacture" one. They did it in 1998; what's to prevent them from doing it again? That party is firmly in the hands of crazy people. And to think - we're within hours of their first campaign debate of the season. That ought to be a riot.

Tom Degan
tomdegan@frontiernet.net

SUGGESTED VIEWING

"Fair Game"

This is the film about Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson. If you will recall, she was the covert CIA agent who was outted by the Bush Mob after husband Joe exposed the lie behind their invasion of Iraq. It stars Sean Penn and Naomi Watts. It's a great film and it's out now on DVD and Blue Ray discs. It might even be available on 8-Track tape. I'm not too sure.

SUGGESTED READING:

"Shock Doctrine"
by Naomi Klein.

I read this book. You ought to read it, too. In fact everyone should read it. Dr. Stephen L. Goldstein explains why far better than I could ever hope to. From CommonDreams.org:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/07-3

They're trying to kill this country and we're letting them do it.

For more recent postings on this wretched site, please go here:

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Cheers!

89 Comments:

At 8:01 AM, OpenID marlena13 said...

Tom, Ive always thought Dr.Rice was one of those people educated way beyond her intelligence. She always seemed surprised when reality did not fit her expectations, Same with W. Maybe that's why they got along so well? Maybe the entire mess that is the Washington political circus is because there are a bunch of incompetent educated beyond their intelligence borderline narcissists with sociopathic tendencies in charge? And they really really are totally clueless? Though looking at the mess the system has become since 1981....Wasn't it under Rayguns that being a sociopath in high office, public or private became a virtue?

 
At 9:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Look, not everything needs to be a partisan issue."
Modusoperandi


Wanna bet?

"..Wasn't it under Rayguns that being a sociopath in high office, public or private became a virtue?"
marlena13

 
At 9:24 AM, Blogger Gypsy Bob said...

Skeptical about OBL's burial at sea. Given Bush Sr's connection with the Saudi Royal Family it wouldn't surprise me if there was a body bait & switch with a dummy being dumped in the sea (not Dubya) and OBL's remains returned to the Saudis for private/secret burial.

Catch 22: The Pakistanis had to know where OBL was "Hiding." We can't be too harsh on them lest one of their 30 odd nukes gets lost and found by terrorists.

 
At 10:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

GB,

1. Bush Sr's connection? Please, your skepticism puts you in the same league as birthers.

2. Agree the Pakistanis knew where OBL was but totally disagree of not being "harsh" with them. What just happened to OBL should be the basis of creating in the minds of terrorists, where ever they are, that the reach and justice of a World Power (USA) can never be escaped. Actions against a World Power's citizens and interests will be responded to and for the benefit of those citizens.
Failure to do so reduces that World Power to a nation that can no longer protect it's citizens from those that would harm them. What benefit would it be to be a citizen of a country like that?
Hate to say this on this blog, but fear in the hearts and minds of those who want to kill you, makes a much larger impression in their actions than being nice to them.

 
At 11:21 AM, Blogger charles moore said...

You can be damned sure that if Bush had killed bin Laden, he would have crowed like an entire barnyard full of roosters. It would not have been kept a secret.

And let us not forget that following 9/11, Bush was so concerned that it took him five days to take his sorry ass to NY to see it. It is no wonder that he doesn't want to go back there.

 
At 11:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And let us not forget that following 9/11, Bush was so concerned that it took him five days to take his sorry ass to NY to see it. It is no wonder that he doesn't want to go back there."
Charles Moore (kin to Michael Moore perhaps?)

And this is the ?? times President Obama has taken his "sorry ass" to ground zero?

 
At 11:56 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

Bush's intelligence contributed to find OBL. BHO made good choice to take him out the way he did. Both deserve credit. You are rewrting histroy a bit. But instead of picking you blog apart, I suggest going back in time a little.er

8/19/98 Ken Starr makes public that he has received evidence Clintons DNA from Lewinsky's garment.

8/20/98 Miss Lewinsky testifies to grand jury about soiled garment and the culprit.

8/20/98 The cuprit, aka William Jefferson Clinton of Penn Ave, DC, launces bombs asprin factory in Sudan, Operation Infinite Reach. Many died because of lack of drugs after this. This was his attempt at Bin Laden.

Timing a tad suspicious.

If WJC, did his job then, the towers would still be standing.

 
At 12:25 PM, Blogger Rain said...

Anytime I listen to right wingers try to defend Bush or themselves on so many things it leads to irritation to the level I think it raises my bp. Limbaugh is leading the pack of hyenas right now but Beck not far behind. It's not worth trying to change such people's minds as they don't have minds-- they have agendas. If Obama doesn't concentrate on doing what he thinks is best, he will go nuts as these people will always find a way to attack him. and their followers will come along behind, parroting the same words, as they don't think for themselves.

As the story unfolds, I think it's best to let it do its thing as every day a new fact is added or challenged. I can just imagine what it'll be like when those with bin Laden that night get their versions out. I think it's a good time for most of us to take a news media vacation.

 
At 12:51 PM, Blogger Gypsy Bob said...

Boltok:

"Bush's intelligence" = Oxymoron (minus the Oxy)

Anonymous:

Family + Friends = Powerful Force/Alliance. Combine Family + Friends with MONEY/OIL and anything is possible.

 
At 1:16 PM, Anonymous ModusAnonymous said...

"Obama Administration takes victory lap in clown car"


There’s the official narrative of the raid, which has already gone through more versions than the Star Wars movies.

First Bin Laden had a gun; then he didn’t.

He hid behind one of his wives, who was killed; wait, no, scratch that, she’s alive and wasn’t his wife. Maybe?

Now Leon Panetta says he and President Obama didn’t actually see the whole thing go down, after the White House made a point of releasing that instantly iconic picture of the whole gang watching it go down.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/04/obama-administration-takes-victory-lap-in-clown-car/#ixzz1LV0eHPc3

 
At 1:53 PM, Blogger Gypsy Bob said...

Gypsy Bob's Version:

Special Forces are under a KILL not Capture edict. This assures efficiency and reduces spontaneous decision making. Presence = Resistance = Take them out.

Small arms may have been present in the compound but none were used ... the residents were taken by complete surprise.

The residents, including OBL, were eliminated as they were encountered.

After dispatching OBL our operatives set out to confirm identity and searched for any documents or intelligence and checked to make sure all encountered enemy were dead.

OBL's remains and cache of documents were loaded on the remaining helicopter and exited the scene.

No humanity involved just a cold, calculated, well planned and executed operation. A WELL DONE and Thanks to all involved.

...post op analysis and media sniveling begins ... spin anyone?

 
At 3:31 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Tom I agree. I DO NOT support the death penalty (well that's conditional, sometimes I sway on it a little for crimes that were premeditated for the sole interest of financial gain for people that really didn't need any financial gain, in other words, were not destitute, and nothing was mentally wrong with them, AT ALL) but in my mind there are... like 3 or 4 entities that would get a pass without hesitation or trial -- Ole' Yeller, Osama Bin Laden, Ted Bundy, and Christine (the car)....And I have done some research on psychopathy and the death penalty which is my very first blog entry....ever...

The pictures...should not IMO be released...they will just be over analyzed by people who have no clue, and be ridiculed as being fakes...

And I heard that no country would accept custody of his body...No country wanted his remains, not even Saudi Arabia...That's why we dumped his ass at sea...

 
At 6:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Got to love Bush in Oz he as called George W. Gump the man with passion fingers, everything he touched he fcuked!

Den from Oz

 
At 8:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

batman 54 sez,

Isn't it strange, a rich man is shot to death during an armed invasion of his home, and for the first time in history, the Republicans are refusing to blame a black man!!!!

 
At 3:36 AM, Blogger Dearest Friend said...

Tried twice to comment on this and it won't let me post. It must be a conspiracy! (GASP!)

I say just so we don't hear about this for generations to come, maybe the pictures should be shown to a select few from both parties just so they can say, "Yep, that's him, he's dead." and let it rest.

Conspiracy theories can range from the very ridiculous to the very believable. We don't need another one - and certainly not on something this big. Two examples:

Ridiculous - NASA faked the moon landing - tell that to Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin.

Also ridiculous - J.F.Kennedy was shot by a single gunman. - Oh, my bad! It's been proven!

I hope this can be resolved soon...

 
At 11:34 AM, Anonymous Color Me Skeptical said...

Dearest Friend, to be honest I'm not sure of your standing concerning the JFK assassination. Do you believe the "lone gunman" theory, as concluded by the Warren Commission, is the true account? Or, do you believe it was probably a conspiracy, as finalized by the The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in its final report issued in 1979?

Not surprisingly, there are some eerie similarities between OBL's photographic evidence and that of JFK. The Warren Commission failed to examine some of the most critical evidence in the former president's case: the photographs and x-rays from President Kennedy's autopsy. Amazingly, "Chairman Earl Warren felt that these materials were too gruesome to allow into the public record. He thought that it 'would make a morbid thing for all time.' The Commission relied instead on artistic renderings of the photographs prepared by an illustrator working from verbal descriptions provided by the chief autopsy prosector. Some critics viewed the Commission's failure to view the photographs and x-rays as gross negligence."

It appears this president's excuse of protecting the public decency, again has a higher importance than finding the truth. We haven't learned a thing. (Or, more appropriately, we probably weren't meant to.)

 
At 12:58 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

In defense of Dearest Friend, I, too, used to be a staunch advocate of the conspiracy theory. In almost thirty years worth of study on the subject of November 22, 1963 (a day that I am just barely old enough to remember) I can say beyond any doubt that Oswald killed John F. Kennedy - alone and unaided.

I know it's hard to accept the fact that a worthless, self-important little piece of shit like Lee Oswald could have taken down a quality guy like Jack Kennedy, but this is what I am convinced happened.

Cheers!

Tom Degan

 
At 1:20 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Tom, you said...

In almost thirty years worth of study on the subject of November 22, 1963...I can say beyond any doubt that Oswald killed John F. Kennedy - alone and unaided.

...and you continued...

...this is what I am convinced happened.

Okay, Tom, I'll play the devil's advocate: What convinced you? Maybe you can change my mind. (I hope you're basing your change of mind on some recently discovered proof or evidence, and aren't falling back on the doctored and inadequate Warren Report.)

 
At 1:29 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Well, I've read so many books on the subject (Mark Lane, Davis Lifton, etc.) over so many years and this is the conclusion I have drawn. Admittedly I never read the Warren Report - not all the way through anyway. But I've read most of the pro conspiracies and anti-conspiracies - and the antis make more of a case in my opinion.

I am subject to change my mind any time though!

Cheers!

Tom

 
At 12:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"sociopath in high office"? Here you go, video clip about these severe personality disorders: http://www.fisheadmovie.com/ psychopaths running around

 
At 2:26 AM, Blogger Dearest Friend said...

Thank you, Tom - yes, I do support the "lone gunman" theory. I do not however think he just got it into his head one day to kill JFK. There was something behind all that. My dad made expert marksman and then some in the Army - meaning he was an amazing shot. He would always criticize a film if there was an unrealistic shot made judging by the amount of feet from the victim, the angle of the gun and so forth. He explained to me complete with graph paper and everything else how Oswald got the shots off and killed JFK and hit Connally, etc. I'm convinced he acted alone as far as the shooting. I am not convinced he was "alone" in wanting JFK dead.
I do think he had some serious mental health issues to WANT to do it even if he was paid to do it...

I'm just glad no one further questioned the theory behind the conspiracy by NASA - we're all agreed then, we DID get a man on the moon, right? Now there's the thinking that Apollo 11 was real, the rest faked because NASA "knew" enough to fake it for the rest of the missions - how disappointed the late, great Alan Shepherd would be to know he NEVER went to the moon...here's to Smilin' Al - our first man in space, and the first to hit a golf ball on the moon!

 
At 3:10 AM, Blogger Rhiannon said...

Incredibly well written post..and I relate to and agree with most all you have said in it! "Birthers" will now become "Deathers"...but wait I just now heard Bin Laudins buddies acknowledg that he is in "fact" dead...hmmmm...we will see how that goes down with the GOP!..they always find something stupid to make up and I'm sure they will. It's sad that they can never come up with "plans" or "ideas" of their own, rather they blast "the other side" with made up crap and their stupid anger and pointing fingers at everyone but themselves, in order to win election...the fact that so many are foolish to actually believe it without checking out the facts is the true sad story of America..

 
At 10:28 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Tom, you finalized your reply with this...

"I am subject to change my mind any time though!"

Well, you already did once! ;-)

Revisionist history is a powerful and foreboding force. I'm inclined to believe that the anti-conspirators make a more lucid case due to the passage of time and, which you've got to admit, it's the "official version" as originally espoused by the Warren Commission. In the long run, the "house" always wins.

I guess we'll (possibly) find out the truth in 2017.

 
At 5:08 PM, Blogger Catharine said...

I watched "TRADING PLACES" last night, and there's a scene toward the end where Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd are preparing to enter the stock exchange. They exit the taxi, and Murphy looks straight up and the angle cuts to his POV -- the Twin Towers from the sidewalk, extending miles into the sky.

It was the first time I'd scene that vantage point in a long time where at least one of the two buildings wasn't on fire.

It wasn't sad or nostalgic at that moment, because the movie was shot in the 80s. It was just nice to see them, whole and shiny in the sun.

~A~

 
At 10:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More stuff to blame on Bush:

ABUJA, NIGERIA — Christians in northern Nigeria were mourning Saturday, May 7, after Muslim attackers reportedly killed 17 Christians, including the wife and three children of a pastor. Several Christian homes were also burned in the village of Kurum in Nigeria’s tense Bauchi State, said advocacy group International Christian Concern (ICC).

ICC told BosNewsLife that it learned about the massacre Friday, May 6. “It is not right for anyone to kill another person, life is precious and a gift from God,” explained ICC’s Regional Manager for Africa, Jonathan Racho. No more details were immediately available, but the attack was the latest in a series of recent incidents in which hundreds of people died.

“Since 1999 in Bauchi state, several Christians have been killed but no one has been brought before justice. The government has to intervene. The government has to be fair to all its citizens,” said Reverend Turbe Ngodem in published remarks.

Reverend Ngodem is the General Secretary of Christian Association of Nigeria in Bauchi State. Since the introduction of Sharia, or Muslim, law in northern Nigeria in 1999, thousands of Christians have been killed by Muslim extremists, according to several rights groups and churches.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WASHINGTON: Amid bitter, recriminatory exchanges between the United States and Pakistan over the Osama bin Laden extermination, planned bilateral visits of President Asif Ali Zardari to Washington DC and a return trip of President Barack Obama to Islamabad are both in jeopardy. Ties between the two sides are expected to slide further following Pakistan’s “outing” of the CIA station chief in Islamabad on Saturday.

In a sign of how bad ties are between the two countries, Pakistani media on Saturday once again publicly named the CIA station chief in Islamabad, a breach of both protocol and trust, that is bound to enrage Washington.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CAIRO (AFP) — Clashes between Muslims and Christians in the Egyptian capital Cairo on Saturday left five people dead and about 50 others injured, hospital and security officials said.

The two groups clashed in the northwestern district of Imbaba after Muslims attacked the Coptic Saint Mena church to free a Christian woman they alleged was being held against her will because she wanted to convert to Islam.

A parish priest, Father Hermina, told AFP the dead were Copts who died when “thugs and (Muslim fundamentalist) Salafis fired at them” in the late afternoon attack.

But this is called RACISM??

(Daily Mail) — Two Muslim religious leaders were asked to leave a commercial airliner in Memphis — and were told it was because the pilot refused to fly with them aboard.

Masudur Rahman and another imam had already been allowed to board their Delta Connection flight from Memphis, Tennessee, to Charlotte, North Carolina before they were asked to get off the plane.

‘It’s racism and bias because of our religion and appearance and because of misinformation about our religion.’ Mr Rahman said. ‘If they understood Islam, they wouldn’t do this.’

Mr Rahman said he and Mohamed Zaghloul, of the Islamic Association of Greater Memphis, were cleared by security agents and boarded the plane for an 8.40am departure.

The aircraft pulled away from the gate, but the pilot then announced the plane must return, Mr Rahman said.

When it did, the imams were asked to go back to the boarding gate where they were told the pilot was refusing to accept them because some other passengers could be uncomfortable.

Mr Rahman said Delta officials talked with the pilot for more than a half-hour, but he still refused to fly with them aboard.

The men were taken to a lounge and booked on a later flight.

They flew on to Charlotte later the same day.

 
At 4:03 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Peace loving mooselems at it again:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2011/05/08/state_tv_toll_in_egypt_church_attack_rises_to_9/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+Boston+Globe+--+World+News

 
At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Ive always thought Dr.Rice was one of those people educated way beyond her intelligence." marlena13

That's just soooo racist!
Typical liberal reaction to a minority who is also a conservative.
JG, looks like you've got company in your liberal racism group, welcome marlena13 to your crew.

 
At 1:03 AM, Blogger Dearest Friend said...

Catharine - another great view of the twin towers is on the opening or closing credits (it's late and I can't remember which right now!) of "Barney Miller." I heard that they filmed one of the credit sequences for the show before the towers were actually built and didn't realize when they went back that the shot would not look exactly the same - it's the same exact shot - except for the towers. Pretty funny piece of tv trivia there - well, funny but sad now. Great show too, btw.

 
At 12:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Peace loving Muslims in action!

Christians in Pakistan recently fled when a Muslim mob attacked a seminary and accused believers of desecrating the Quran.

Roughly 4,000 Muslims recently attacked a Presbyterian seminary in Gujranwala and compelled 3,000 believers to flee the area. Pastor Eric Issac, who oversees a local Presbyterian church, was also arrested and falsely accused of burning the Quran.

Jonathan Racho, regional manager for Africa with International Christian Concern (ICC), says the attack may have been trigged by the Pakistani police’s decision to release two Christians accused of insulting the Quran.

“This is not the first time that Christians have been persecuted in the area. On April 15, the Muslim radicals in the area accused Mushtaq Gill and his son Farrukh Gill of desecrating the Quran, and they got them arrested,” Racho report.

 
At 12:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting, I wonder if Rev. Wright knew about this?


Following are excerpts from a statement by Sheik ‘Atiyya Muhammad Sa’id, a member of the Sudanese Islamic Scholars Association, at a rally, which was posted on the Internet on May 5, 2011:

Sheik ‘Atiyya Muhammad Sa’id: By Allah, the state of Islam will be established upon the land, whether the infidels like it or not, whether the Jews like it or not, whether that apostate. . . What’s his name. . . The one from America. . . Obama!

Obama is a Muslim who has left the fold of Islam. Hence, Allah, the angels, and all the people curse him. He is a real apostate. Obama is an apostate. Obama is an apostate. He left the fold of Islam…

Crowds: The apostate must be executed.

The apostate must be executed.

The apostate must be executed.

The apostate must be executed.

 
At 3:04 PM, Blogger Mack Lyons said...

A post similar to Anon @12:45's showed up at another blog, all without attribution or a source link. These copypasta boys move around pretty well, don'cha think?

"Tom, Ive always thought Dr.Rice was one of those people educated way beyond her intelligence. She always seemed surprised when reality did not fit her expectations, Same with W. Maybe that's why they got along so well?"

An artificially-generated version of the Dunning-Kruger effect, a.k.a "promoted above one's competence"? You don't say...

 
At 8:40 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Mack Lyons, pay no attention to Anonymous. He's the blogosphere's equivalent of the village idiot from days of old. Unfortunately for Tom, he's decided to camp out on The Rant's common square.

Occasionally we feed him some crumbs and shoo him on his way, but he keeps inconveniencing us with his nonsense and his constant irrational blathering about Islam. Also unfortunate, like a bad case of herpes, he keeps coming back.

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

 
At 9:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My oh my, how libs love to accuse conservatives of racism but when the finger's pointed at them, how they love to ignore.


Tell us Sir Mac, what was the other blogs name where you claim to have found the original post you find so offensive?

 
At 10:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey look at this, Muslims murder someone other than Christians!

May 8, 2011
Militants kill 2 in restive Thai south
Security forces investigate the site of a shooting attack in front of a mosque in the southern Pattani province May 8, 2011. -- PHOTO: REUTERS

YALA - SUSPECTED insurgents killed two Buddhists in a drive-by shooting on Sunday in Thailand's deep south, police said, the latest in an upsurge of violence in the troubled region bordering Malaysia.

The attack took place in front of a mosque in Pattani province a day after twin bombings by suspected rebels killed at least seven security forces, marking one the region's deadliest days in several months.

The intensity of violence in Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani has increased this year and attacks include powerful roadside bombings, an assassination attempt on a provincial governor and a deadly weapons raid on a poorly guarded army barracks.

Thailand's deep south is among Asia's most violent places, with more than 4,500 people killed since 2004 in gun and bomb attacks the authorities blame on militants fighting for autonomy for the region's ethnic Malay Muslim majority.

Rights groups and many local Muslims believe security forces and armed Buddhist vigilantes have carried out extrajudicial killings and are angered by what they say is a refusal by the government to punish those responsible.

The authorities dismiss the allegations and say local people are being influenced by rebel propaganda and attempts by the shadowy insurgents to discredit police and the army and stir communal tensions between Muslims and minority Buddhists. -- REUTERS

 
At 12:39 AM, Blogger Mack Lyons said...

"Occasionally we feed him some crumbs and shoo him on his way, but he keeps inconveniencing us with his nonsense and his constant irrational blathering about Islam. Also unfortunate, like a bad case of herpes, he keeps coming back. "

These people are being paid to camp out on liberal blogs and behave like mental defectives. There's no other way that someone of that state of mind would continue to waste their time on a blog espousing a political and social ideology that is the complete opposite of what's held by others here. Not unless they were being paid to do it.

"Tell us Sir Mac, what was the other blogs name where you claim to have found the original post you find so offensive?"

Why ask me? You've been to every single one of them like the two-dollar whore you are.

 
At 4:02 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Mack Lyons, you said...

"These people are being paid to camp out on liberal blogs and behave like mental defectives."

No doubt! Well, except for Anonymous. He is a mental defective. Nobody would pay him. He just camps here on his own. Nobody paid the village idiot, either.

But the others, like Boltok, for example, they're paid. Possibly even military intelligence (which is a real oxymoron, especially after having the pleasure of reading their drivel).

 
At 7:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But the others, like Boltok, for example, they're paid. Possibly even military intelligence (which is a real oxymoron, especially after having the pleasure of reading their drivel)." Jeff Guard

Sound like JG believes that 9/11 was an inside job, that there really were black helicopters hanging around Ross Perot's house, that wearing a foil hat will keep aliens from reading his mind and Michael Moore represents main stream American beliefs.

 
At 1:03 PM, Blogger Mack Lyons said...

"Sound like JG believes that 9/11 was an inside job, that there really were black helicopters hanging around Ross Perot's house, that wearing a foil hat will keep aliens from reading his mind and Michael Moore represents main stream American beliefs."

Of course. Because making him sound like a crazy asshole is the best way to discredit anything he has to say in the eyes of other viewers. And it allows all the other questions to go unanswered. Including why the likes of boltok would want to hang around, day after day, at a blog that's the polar opposite of his ideological bent? And why does he persist in attempting to "convert" bloggoers to his "rational and reasoned" version of conservative diatribe, despite continuing evidence as to how it is detrimental to the country at large? Only a man who's being paid a fair sum of money would be this dedicated.

Or he may be a genuine village idiot who likes hanging around Internet cafes and libraries reeking of piss, musk and shattered dreams.

 
At 4:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And why does he persist in attempting to "convert" bloggoers to his "rational and reasoned" version of conservative diatribe, despite continuing evidence as to how it is detrimental to the country at large? Only a man who's being paid a fair sum of money would be this dedicated."
Mack Lyons

Sounds like ole Mack's got a problem with someone posting a view point on Tom's blogother than this weeks liberal talking points.

"detrimental to the country at large" What is detrimental to this country?

In liberal talk what ole Mack is saying is only a person who was being paid $$ would dare post a non liberal comment on a liberal site. Guess that means an end to diversity, huh Mack?

Lets see you answer those questions.

 
At 5:24 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

From Chris Hedges's latest article in Truthdig yesterday...

"...a cadre of right-wing institutions that peddle themselves as counterterrorism specialists and experts on the Muslim world has been indoctrinating thousands of police, intelligence and military personnel in nationwide seminars. These seminars...embrace gross and distorted stereotypes and propagate wild conspiracy theories. And much of this indoctrination within the law enforcement community is funded under two grant programs for training—the State Homeland Security Program and Urban Areas Security Initiative—which made $1.67 billion available to states in 2010. The seminars preach that Islam is a terrorist religion, that an Islamic 'fifth column' or 'stealth jihad' is subverting the United States from within, that mainstream American Muslims have ties to terrorist groups, that Muslims use litigation, free speech and other legal means (something the trainers have nicknamed 'Lawfare') to advance the subversive Muslim agenda and that the goal of Muslims in the United States is to replace the Constitution with Islamic or Shariah law."

 
At 5:32 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

PART II

Mr. Hedges's article explains how "caricatures of Muslims as evil terrorists become effective tools in justifying the ongoing occupations and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the proxy wars in Yemen and Pakistan, and the suspension of basic civil liberties at home. Israel, as well as its supporters in the United States, routinely employs the same racist cant to excuse Israeli war crimes and deny the legitimate rights of Palestinians."

I believe right-wingers who sit on this site, namely Boltok, Anonymous (several versions of "him"), Browns44, and possibly a few others, may be funded and employed, directly or indirectly, by government organizations or quasi-government organizations, to stem the discourse and turn it into a racist rant against Islam and the practitioners of this religion.

How's this for an answer, Anonymous?

 
At 8:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WASHINGTON, May 10, 2011 — The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) last night filed a brief with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit urging the court to uphold a ruling that blocked implementation of a discriminatory and unnecessary Oklahoma state constitutional amendment that prohibits courts from applying — or even considering — what is broadly described as Islamic “Sharia law” and “international law.”

The measure, officially titled the “Save Our State Amendment,” was temporarily enjoined last year by a lower court for blatantly disfavoring an entire faith and denying Oklahoma’s Muslims access to the judicial system on the same terms as every other citizen. The ACLU and CAIR are seeking to have the amendment permanently struck down.

“This amendment is nothing more than a blatant attempt to subvert the Constitution by enshrining anti-Muslim bigotry into state law,” said Daniel Mach, Director of the ACLU Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief. “The idea that followers of an entire faith should be treated like second-class citizens is ugly, discriminatory and profoundly un-American.”

“This brief and the court’s previous ruling make clear that our Constitution does not tolerate using state laws to target religious minorities,” said CAIR Staff Attorney Gadeir Abbas.

Coming to a State near you, sooner than you think.

 
At 12:18 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
Now I am military intelligence in addition to being compensated for commenting on blogs. I come here to be amused by you lunatics. I know its a perversion, like going to Coney Island.

Governmental or industrial quality intelligence is not needed to address your feeble intellectual output. After being away a couple days, I am glad to see that I am in the fossil's and your thoughts.

 
At 6:08 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

I think some folks are overestimating the importance of this blog in world affairs.

 
At 1:29 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "Coming to a State near you, sooner than you think."
Well, I sure am glad that the economy and unemployment are sorted out, so that state governments have the time to confront the unthreat of a couple percent of the population (that is, if all of them happened to be Islamists) somehow taking over the country and sullying the Constitution that the current governments seem all too willing to compromise.

 
At 2:12 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley, you said...

"I think some folks are overestimating the importance of this blog in world affairs."

Maybe...maybe not...

 
At 2:47 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

It seems to me the world operates with numerous hypocritical double standards that depend on who is doing what to whom and why. Just watch when someday the shoe is on the other foot and people cry foul. I would like to see Omar bin Laden sue Obama in International Court to see what information comes out about who knew what about the 9/11 attacks and when they knew it !!! BTW...the only thing that will stop terrorism is to end our imperialistic conquest of the world PERIOD. If you folks can't see why we are so hated you are the ones that need your heads examined !!

 
At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"BTW...the only thing that will stop terrorism is to end our imperialistic conquest of the world PERIOD. If you folks can't see why we are so hated you are the ones that need your heads examined."

I thought President Obama was going to make us loved by the world, what happened there?
Is Spain hated by the world, after all they were attacked by terrorist?

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Different terrorists act for different reasons. Some are just plain insane, some have a political or religious agenda. The ones that attack Amerika do so to try to get us to mind our own business and not ruin the world with our capitalist greed based mentality. Any place that has folks treated unfairly is prone to violent actions, its the old you reap what you sow. The way things are going in Amerika pretty soon our own citizens are going act in that manner. Those in control can only push people so far unless they have been brainwashed to be complacent and eat the shit they are fed. I think most folks would rather go out with a fight once they realize they are fucked anyway !!

 
At 12:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The way things are going in Amerika pretty soon our own citizens are going act in that manner."
Ellis D., Esq.

I was waiting for the true threat to this country to rear it's ugly liberal head and this post has produced the expected. You see it's the left that's full of hate and is a threat to it's people if the left doesn't get it's way.
Thank you Ellis.

 
At 1:08 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

No, not liberals....regular folks who are tired of being kicked around by the greedy people in control who want to take more and more from them while contributing less and less themselves. At some point when conventional means fail people look for alternatives. When the establishment refuses to play fair it forces people to decide what it is worth to them to effectuate change. Some courageous people decide it is worth their lives and they protest like at Kent State. I DO NOT advocate the cowardly act of killing innocent people BY EITHER SIDE. But as we see in the Middle East those in power do whatever is necessary to stay in power so violence and death appear to be inevitable if change is EVER to occur. So don't blame liberals when the shit hits the fan. Blame those who pushed the folks just a tad bit too far like that Ryan asshole !!!

 
At 6:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice try ELLIS, but your attempt to cover your call for the overthrow of our country is a large FAIL.

 
At 11:18 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you're so blind to the truth, it's pitiful. Any total breakdown in our social order will be due to policies instituted by, and on behalf of, the conservative Right -- not the Left. This has been in the making for decades, not the last two years -- as your kind seems hell-bent to hold on to, and embrace.

Ironically, your kind defends the very forces that are out to destroy this country and you (and already have). You may realize this someday, but I'm afraid your limited education and irrational views will never allow you to see this in time. As I said, what a pity.

 
At 11:32 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Harley. you said...

"I think some folks are overestimating the importance of this blog in world affairs."

Maybe...maybe not.

 
At 5:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff Guard,
More unsupported crap from the left on your part.
That's the pity

 
At 6:20 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you said "unsupported"?

Get your head out of Fox News, and open your eyes!

 
At 6:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff Guard, get brave, think for yourself just once. Not everyone who disagrees with you watches Fox news, people disagree with liberalism on it's own merits..it's failure to produce the promises it makes, then it's blaming those who disagree with it for its own failure.
Think out side the box just once, think about all the liberals who have been elected and have voted to fund their liberal programs, then ask your self, if these programs were so great how come we still have the problems they were meant to fix?

 
At 7:08 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "Think out side the box just once, think about all the liberals who have been elected and have voted to fund their liberal programs, then ask your self, if these programs were so great how come we still have the problems they were meant to fix?"
Yeah, JG! Just look at how poorly SS/Medicare have worked over the decades! Grandmothers with roofs over their heads? Getting healthcare? I mean, come on!
Compare that to just how successful Trickle Down and the replacement of onerous regulations like Glass-Steagall with the iron-clad safety of voluntary self-regulation.
Look at how much better off you have it in these post-Reagan years, with a good, well-paying career, healthcare insurance you can easily afford (that doesn't drop you once you start billing for cancer treatments), and both a growing company-assisted retirement program and a future-proof 401K! Who needs Social[ist] Security and Medicare with all that? The Invisible Hand of the Market is all the "safety net" you need!
Take that, liberalism!

 
At 7:20 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you said...

"...people disagree with liberalism on it's own merits..it's failure to produce the promises it makes, then it's blaming those who disagree with it for its own failure."

Please...enlighten me. Give examples.

"...if these programs were so great how come we still have the problems they were meant to fix?"

You make this too simple. Almost all of our problems have become seemingly impossible to solve for one very fundamental reason: corporate personhood. Our social problems are only symptoms; corporate personhood is the disease. If we could eliminate corporate personhood, and put the power back into the hands of the people, as a true democracy, we'd have the capability, and ability, to solve all of our problems in short order.

 
At 9:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Just look at how poorly SS/Medicare have worked over the decades!"

Going broke in both examples due to mismanagement by liberals.

"corporate personhood."

One trick pony time!!

 
At 1:29 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "Going broke in both examples due to mismanagement by liberals."
Um. No. Social Security needs a minor correction (and predicted) fix. You know, like the one that that Socialst president Reagan did. And Medicare's issues aren't Medicare's issues, per se. In that case it's more that medical expenses are rising faster than pretty much anything else. That's a systemic problem. Note that Medicare's costs are rising more slowly than private healthcare (and more slowly than Medicare D).
In both cases the Right doesn't want to fix the programs. They want to pawn grandma's retirement off to Wall Street (which just got done burning off your 401K and/or your public retirement fund) and her healthcare to, um, Med Street (which is doing quite well canceling people's insurance once they get to be a burden).

 
At 3:58 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you ignorantly replied...

"'corporate personhood.' One trick pony time!!"

Let me teach you some basic U.S. history, which explains exactly why we're suffering through the social and economic problems that we do, courtesy of POCLAD:

In May 1886 United States Supreme Court clerk J.C. Bancroft Davis, former president of the Newburgh and New York Railway Company, inserted a headnote to the United States Reports pertaining to the Court's decision in Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company.

Thus with out a formal court ruling, this simple act set a precedent and effectively established corporations as legal persons entitled to the same rights as living, breathing persons under the 14th amendment.

What has followed is 125 years of case law giving corporations Constitutional Rights leading to the destruction of our democracy at the hands of greedy corporations. The most recent, of course, is the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision in Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission that opened the floodgates of corporate money in elections. From the environment, energy, and healthcare to jobs, education and the economy, the greed of big multi-national corporations is laying waste to the American dream, and our democracy.

Whatever issue arises, at its root you'll find a corporation standing between 'we the people' and the solution. If we are to 'secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and posterity,' then we must put an end corporate personhood.
"

 
At 9:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OH BOY,, Jeff Guard is going to teach us basic US History!!!

Let's all get into a circle, boys and girls, and listen to teacher J.G. present to us more revisionist history from the left!!!

Like:

Capitalism bad, very bad.

Socialism good, very good.

Corporations bad, very bad.

Government good, very good.

Teacher Jeff Guard has a very special guest for all of us boys and girls!! It's a man who has three degrees in herbology and homeopathic medicine, one of which was from a diploma mill. He has worked with the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). And is a FORMER psychotherapist and entrepreneur and former radio host on the failed liberal radio network "Air America". (couldn't compete against NPR for govt. money.)

His books are published on paper that has been manufactured by environmentally responsible processes. So you can buy his books with out hurting the "planet" Mother Earth.


It's Thom Hartmann!!! So listen up real good boys and girls or Mr. Jeff Guard will make you read President Obama's ghost written book
"Dreams of my Father".
Again.

 
At 11:18 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, the truth is painful, isn't it, especially when you've been taught (or, more appropriately, not taught) otherwise?

You've got it all wrong (again, which isn't such a surprise); Thom Hartmann isn't affiliated with POCLAD (Program on Corporations, Law & Democracy), although I wouldn't expect you to know this.

Sorry to disappoint you; I'm not going to, nor ever would, endorse or recommend Dreams of my Father, or anything written by Obama. As far as I'm concerned, he's in your camp -- not mine. He calls himself a Democrat, but that's a misnomer. He's a corporatist, just like 98% of congress and a majority of the Supreme Court (and you, apparently).

Like I said, get your nose out of the tale-of-vision (particularly, Fox News) and read a book once in a while. You'll be amazed at what you can learn. Because, wherever you're getting your news and information now, you're being sold a bill of goods.

 
At 3:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well boys and girls there we have it.

Teacher Jeff Guard once again proving us with the facts as he see's them.
LIKE Obama is not liberal enough for him! Scary thought I know, but one that is great to hear from our socialists friends on the left.

They hate your country, and they hate anyone who makes it without the help of government.

You must learn to share for the common good! Too much exceptionalism makes America weak cause it means big government is not needed.

 
At 4:12 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Anonymous....people who make it without the help of government ?? Are you kidding me ?? These rich people have had nothing but the help of the government ( which they own ) in getting their ill gotten gains. Tax breaks, subsidies, weak environmental laws, lack of necessary tariffs, weak immigration laws..... you name it. On an even playing field with unmarked cards the game would turn out quite a bit differently. Instead our version of Royalty, the big mega-corporations control EVERYTHING as they have bought every branch of government. Someone must have tipped them off that it was for sale !!!! Oh that's right they have that legal form of bribery called lobbying !! That and the fact that all government regulatory agencies are manned by former employees of the companies they regulate. Now that is a neat trick.....no wonder they never do anything to the detriment of the corporations and only act to the detriment of WE THE PEOPLE. But of course you demented right wingers see nothing wrong with that !!

 
At 6:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No Ellis, I am not kidding you! There are people who make it in this world without help from government.

"On an even playing field with unmarked cards the game would turn out quite a bit differently." Sums up the liberal mind set, it goes like this, in order for one person to succeed, some one else must have less. What a pile of crap that is.

Ellis, you create that level playing field and you would be surprised to find that without any govt interference the same people on top now would soon rise to the top again. What would you say then? Who would you blame then?

 
At 9:33 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

You mean the small minority of sociopaths and psychopaths would find another way to cheat, steal and take advantage of the large majority of good people ?? Yes, but it would be more challenging for them !!!

 
At 12:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You mean the small minority of sociopaths and psychopaths would find another way to cheat, steal and take advantage of the large majority of good people ?? Yes, but it would be more challenging for them !!!"

Your post says it all. The job of liberals is to bring every body down to the lowest level possible because any one who excels must be a sociopath or cheater or psychopath.

I'm gonna frame your post! The next time some claims corporate America is the problem, I'm going to run your quote by them.
Classic socialism at it's best defined again by those who feel they can not compete in a free market society.
Thanks you Ellis, you have made my day.

 
At 9:39 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

A " free market society " ?? Free to outsource jobs to maximize profit at the expense of the Amerikan workers. Free to import cheap illegal immigrant workers to lessen the earning power of the Amerikan workers. Free to bribe legislators with campaign contributions and skew elections with advertising propaganda now even worse as a result of the Citizens United case. Of course you right wingers with your warped sense of entitlement and inability to share wealth and resources for the common good see nothing wrong with your antisocial behavior. Glad I made your day...that shows what a psychopath you are !!!!

 
At 2:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Free to outsource jobs to maximize profit at the expense of the Amerikan workers" Like G E? big fan of the liberals.

"to import cheap illegal immigrant workers to lessen the earning power of the Amerikan workers" Oh, you must mean undocumented workers that the liberals want to allow across our borders for their vote.

"Free to bribe legislators with campaign contributions and skew elections with advertising propaganda now even worse as a result of the Citizens United case."
Something the Unions never ever did or still do?

Cry me a river.

 
At 2:35 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Ellis, You stumped him! He has no legitimate response. Your answer was perfect! Do you know why? Because it's the truth. The Right has a hard time dealing with that.

Remember, conservatives never think about the fallacy of their arguments, simply because they never, ever, draw them out to their truthful conclusions. When Anonymous made the erroneous claim that "without any government interference the same people on top now would soon rise to the top again", he never took into account your observation that they have the advantages of "[t]ax breaks, subsidies, weak environmental laws, lack of necessary tariffs, weak immigration laws" in addition to the "legal form of bribery called lobbying" -- as you very cleverly pointed out. Once you declared, "Checkmate!", all he could do (as all wing-nuts do when they're cornered) was call you a socialist and claim you hate America.

Well done! Bravo! I salute you!

 
At 3:06 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

JG....and to think people tell me I'm just a crazy hippie !!! Anonymous must be one of those Ivy Leaguers who have been believing their own bullshit for so long that to them it's reality !!! Someone should dose the water supply at those schools !!!!

 
At 5:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.S. I gave you the answers, the fact is you're too stupid to understand the iron of them.

Hows this for proof of liberal pay back to big corporations?

WINCHESTER, VA--“Government did us in,” says Dwayne Madigan, whose job will terminate when General Electric closes its factory next July.

Madigan makes a product that will soon be illegal to sell in the U.S. - a regular incandescent bulb. Two years ago, his employer, GE, lobbied in favor of the law that will outlaw the bulbs.

Madigan’s colleagues, waiting for their evening shift to begin, all know that GE is replacing the incandescents for now with compact fluorescents bulbs, which GE manufactures in China.

Last month, GE announced it will close the Winchester Bulb Plant 80 miles west of D.C. As a result, 200 men and women will lose their jobs. GE is also shuttering incandescent factories in Ohio and Kentucky, axing another 200 jobs.

GE blamed environmental regulations for the closing. The first paragraph of the company’s July 23 press release explained:

“A variety of energy regulations that establish lighting efficiency standards are being implemented in the U.S. and other countries, in some cases this year, and will soon make the familiar lighting products produced at the Winchester Plant obsolete.”

The U.S. legislation in question was a provision in the 2007 energy bill that required all bulbs sold in the U.S.—beginning in 2012 for some wattages—to meet high efficiency standards.

Given the steady death of U.S. manufacturing, this factory was going to close sooner or later, anyway. Workers tell me they were happy when they heard in June that the factory was staying open at least through mid-2011—a plan GE abandoned the next month.

But the light bulb law is clearly the main driver in closing this factory. After all, the product they make here will be contraband by 2014.
“That was the nail in the coffin,” Madigan says.

These men, waiting in the shade in front of the employees’ entrance to the plant on a hot afternoon, all know another pertinent fact about the light-bulb law that is killing their jobs: GE lobbied in favor of it.

Why did GE, founded by Thomas Edison, support a bill that killed the traditional incandescent light bulb?

The company said in 2007 it wanted to make sure it was working under a single federal efficiency standard, rather than a patchwork of state regulations. GE also touts its compact fluorescents as one of the green products in its “eco-magination” initiative.

The workers don’t buy the green arguments, pointing to the mercury gas that’s in the fluorescents. “It’s illegal to dump mercury in the river, but not in the landfill,” two of them say in unison—it’s become a dark joke at the factory.

Robert Pifer, who will also be laid off in July if he doesn’t find a new job by then, has an explanation for GE’s support of the light-bulb law and its shift to the more expensive fluorescents. “Are they not just trying to force-feed people stuff they don’t want to buy?”

So, GE gets environmentalist brownie points for selling “clean” light bulbs, and they also get to charge more for their bulbs. But there’s another advantage—they save on labor with fluorescents, because they make the fluorescents in China.

Not only are wages lower there, but so are the regulatory burdens, both environmental and labor. The Times of London recently reported, “Large numbers of Chinese workers have been poisoned by mercury, which forms part of the compact fluorescent lightbulbs.”

 
At 6:28 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Exactly why G.E. should have to pay a hefty tariff to get the bulbs back here from China !! Then the plant would now be making the new bulbs here, no ?? This isn't that hard a concept. Take the profit out of making the bulbs outside of our country. BTW.....sorry you are losing your job at the plant. I hope you find a good McJob !!!

 
At 7:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And which President is big buddies with G.E.?

 
At 10:41 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Ellis isn’t stumping anyone – there’s just so few of us that feel it’s worthwhile to answer him back. I, for one, like discussing with him. I think he’s in la-la land most of the time, but I bet he’s an ok guy…

“Free to outsource jobs to maximize profit at the expense of the Amerikan workers.” It is a global economy. That is a fact, not an opinion or a desire - just a fact. Given that fact, one can either live with it or continue to assert than we can somehow get around that fact (heck, I don’t even like it, but it’s reality). I think it is inevitable (not desirable) that the global standard of living will normalize to some degree, which means ours will come down some. Now, we are a bankrupt country – we’re now at our 10tril debt ceiling. BOTH parties were going to bankrupt us. Around the turn of the millennium, they were projecting large on-going surpluses – the economy was booming. Dems wanted to spend it. Repubs wanted to cut taxes. Bush won – they cut taxes. Clinton probably had the best idea, which was to save it and invest it. That idea never saw the light of day because he knew such a radical idea was politically DOA. We’ve got to leave the R/D dichotomy – very few of ANY of them are fiscally responsible.

“Free to import cheap illegal immigrant workers to lessen the earning power of the Amerikan workers.” If by importing you mean watching them climb fences, swim across rivers, come across in overheated box trucks, then ok, I guess we’re “importing” them. I don’t like illegal immigration, either. But, your alternative is to impose wage controls that would entice the average uneducated American to go pick lettuce or work in a rendering plant. Based on my experience, that’s going to be a high figure. The cost of produce and meat will rise, so the purchasing power is still affected. Again, no simple solutions – each has costs associated. It would also help if our president wouldn’t sue the state that is trying to help with the problem.

“Free to bribe legislators with campaign contributions and skew elections with advertising propaganda now even worse as a result of the Citizens United case.” The Democratic party (not the “right”) is by percentages (again, pesky facts) more in the pockets of Wall St. than the Republican party. Campaign contribution figures are fairly easy to come by as they are required to report them publicly. I know – I’ve looked at them. Insurance, banks, and investment firms almost 100% lean democratic in political contributions.

 
At 12:04 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Harley....thanks for the character endorsement. The Global economy was/is a very bad capitalist idea. Designed to trap everyone in our ass backwards way of life. If it's reality steps should be taken to change that reality at any cost. We've fucked up the rest of the world enough already !! Regarding immigration.....punish those who hire the people who hop the fences or hide in the trunks of cars. Force employers to pay a LIVING WAGE to workers. If that drives up the price of goods and services so be it. With a living wage these expenses should theoretically be affordable. SUBSIDIZE the income of those still in need with all the money saved by dismantling the Military Industrial Complex and reeling in the out of control MEDICAL Industrial Complex. What we need to learn to do is utilize resources for the common good. NOT force people to compete for basic human needs...that is barbaric. Finally Harley, the Citizens United decision allows unmitigated propaganda to inundate all forms of media further brainwashing an already incredibly dumbed down society. Public Campaign Financing shared equally among all candidates is all that should be allowed in our elections. All this would be a small start toward taking back Amerika from the unethical and unfortunately super-wealthy CRIMINALS who have hijacked it. Signing off from La La land :-)

 
At 1:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if capitalism is such a bad idea and its the right wingers who are destroying this country, explain why the USSR economic system failed?
Surely it wasn't due to rich capitalists in the old USSR or right wing members of their Politburo ?
So if what Ellis wants, (higher taxes, elimination of competition, total centralized government control of the economy, taking money from the rich to level to the playing field) is such a sure fire great way to operate, where is the USSR? That's the way they operated. That's the way Cuba still operates, although recently they have had to allow some private business due to the total failure of socialism.
So if what ELLIS wants is perfect, how come it is not successful any wherein the world/planet?

How is your plan for "Amerika" working in CUBA?
Signing off ELLIS because you cant face the truth that your ideals do not work?
Bye Bye baby brains.

 
At 1:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if capitalism is such a bad idea and its the right wingers who are destroying this country, explain why the USSR economic system failed?
Surely it wasn't due to rich capitalists in the old USSR or right wing members of their Politburo ?
So if what Ellis wants, (higher taxes, elimination of competition, total centralized government control of the economy, taking money from the rich to level to the playing field) is such a sure fire great way to operate, where is the USSR? That's the way they operated. That's the way Cuba still operates, although recently they have had to allow some private business due to the total failure of socialism.
So if what ELLIS wants is perfect, how come it is not successful any wherein the world/planet?

How is your plan for "Amerika" working in CUBA?
Signing off ELLIS because you cant face the truth that your ideals do not work?
Bye Bye baby brains.

 
At 1:53 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

My ideas HAVE NEVER BEEN TRIED....only bastardizations of them. Show me where all wealth and resources were considered the property of everyone collectively and not of a government or sovereignty. Not Cuba, not the USSR. You assholes WANT class division. You have no intention of allowing all their birth rights to share the commons equally. Got news for you rich assholes....your shit doesn't smell any better than ours does. So get down from your high horses and get over yourselves. PLEASE !!!!

 
At 4:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis D., Esq.

Define "rich".

 
At 6:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis,

I guess we could all stand around a camp fire, hold hands and sing the Coke song, but it might piss you off because that song is from an evil corporation.

Instead we could sing Kumbaya, but it has Christian overtones and we all know how you feel about Christianity.

I guess all that's left is for us to do is just shit and die.
You first.

 
At 8:55 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

At least I'll go out with a fight. You folks will just roll over and become slaves to the capitalist pigs. " I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave. " As the song goes......

 
At 9:05 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

"If you kill me, you will have my dead body. You will not have my obedience."

-Mahatma Gandhi

 
At 4:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis D., Esq.

Define "rich".

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous,

Define "big government". While you're at it, define "Classic socialism".

 
At 5:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeff Guard, only after you answer the questions poised to you.

Like what is rich?

 
At 5:48 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you stated...

"Jeff Guard, only after you answer the questions poised to you.

Like what is rich?
"

True, you asked the question, however, I never made the statement referring to the "rich" -- Ellis did. Since I cannot speak for him, or anyone else for that matter, I'll decline to respond. But, you are the one who has thrown around words and phrases such as "big government" and "classic socialism". Since you did, you certainly must have an idea of what they mean to you.

Please share.

 

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home