Tuesday, March 29, 2011

Gerry and the Glass Ceiling

A raising of the glass and a tip of the old fedora this evening to the late Geraldine Ferraro .

Of all the photographs in my archives, the one above I cherish the most. It was taken on a rainy day in the autumn of 1992 at the home of my cousin Hillary Cullen. That's me on the far left (Surprise! Surprise!) During that long ago, more innocent time, not only was I a registered Democrat - I was proud of the fact. It had not yet dawned on me that the Democratic party had sold its soul to the highest bidder. My awakening was another six years in the future. You live and learn. Someday maybe they'll wake up and remember what they're supposed to be all about; whom they are supposed to represent. I'm not holding my breath - you shouldn't either.

As casual as I appear in this picture, I was keenly aware at the moment that a photographer by the name of Abril Adams was enshrining my image - for all time and eternity -
next to the three Democrats of the post-Roosevelt era that I admired most.

To the right of yours truly: Geraldine Ferraro, my beloved uncle (and namesake) Tom Cullen, and the late, great Paul O'Dwyer.


On that day nineteen years ago, my dear friends Tom and Marisa Frederick were celebrating the christening of their infant daughter. Now that she is a young adult, I'll fess up to her: You were my first priority on that blessed day, Nicole. But I just had to break away from your party for twenty minutes (and only twenty minutes - I promise!) so that I could attend a fundraiser for and meet Geraldine Ferraro, who was in the midst of a particularly nasty primary campaign, seeking the nomination to run for United States senate. You and I are now friends on Facebook. I'll take this as a hint that you have forgiven me....

Okay, maybe I was gone for an hour - but not a minute longer!


The memory of this day came rushing back to me this week when I received the news that Geraldine Ferraro passed away at a hospital in Massachusetts at the age of seventy-five. It has been said that the "glass ceiling" was broken in 2008. It you're a Democrat it was broken by Hillary Clinton. If you happen to be a Republican (and Heaven knows why) it was broken by Sarah Palin. What seems to have been forgotten by too many was Gerry Ferraro's trailblazing campaign as Walter Mondale's running mate back in 1984. If she didn't actually break the glass ceiling that year, she put one helluva crack in it.

In my neck of the woods people were quite proud of her - and why wouldn't we have been? She was, after all, an Orange County girl, having been born in 1935 in the city of Newburgh, New York - across the river from Hyde Park, Franklin D. Roosevelt's homestead. Newburgh is also the home town of Sarah Delano, FDR's mother. Geraldine Ferraro was raised in a comfortable, middle class environment until 1944 when her father died suddenly of a heart attack. A year later her mother was forced to move the family to the
Bronx. Her life's journey from this point on would take Gerry on a long road from poverty - to college - to the congress - to a place on the national ticket of a major political party. That's quite a journey - no doubt about it.

I suppose the vice-presidency was never in the cards for Geraldine Ferraro. As we all know, she and Mondale went down in flaming defeat to Ronald Reagan and George H. Dubya Bush. The morning after Election Day 1984 was a grim one I remember all too well. By that time it was obvious to me that Reagan was a senile old reactionary who should have been tucked away in some cozy nursing home somewhere, being spoon-fed oatmeal. Instead the American people (for reasons I'll never be able to understand) decided that he hadn't done enough damage to their once-great nation in his first term. Somehow they came to the mass conclusion that giving the hideous old bastard another four years would be a really neat idea. Americans are funny that way, you know? They really are!

Gerry's political career post-1984 is anticlimactic. She didn't get the nomination in '92 - losing to a pretentious, self-absorbed twit named Robert Abrams - who ran the most despicable campaign I had ever witnessed up to that time. He spent the entire primary trying to link her name to organized crime for no other reason than her Italian heritage. A real class act. When she refused to endorse him when the primaries were finished, she was accused of being a sore loser. I never could blame her. On Election Day of that year- for the first and only time since I became eligible to vote - I didn't even bother showing up at the polls. Why bother? Bob Abrams was the most disgusting pol who ever wore the label "Democrat". Whatever became of that asshole?

Ironically the victor in the election of 1993 was none other than Al D'Amato: probably the most corrupt senator to come out of New York in the twentieth century. When Gerry made another try at the primaries six years later, again she was defeated. The tragedy is that she would have made an outstanding senator I think.

During the last decade of her life she pretty much kept out of the national spotlight. She caused a bit of controversy in 2008 when, as a supporter of the candidacy of Hillary Clinton, she told a reporter from the Daily Breeze "If Obama was a white man, he would not be
in this position." A statement that made absolutely so sense whatsoever. Subsequent television appearances she made in order to clarify these remarks didn't help matters at all. It was sadly obvious that advancing age was beginning to take its toll on her mental capacities. This was not the vibrant woman the country had been introduced to twenty-four years earlier. It was too sad for words.

Still, when her public life is eventually assessed, I believe historians will give Geraldine Ferraro both thumbs up. That her heart was in the right place on most issues there can be little doubt. The pity of it all is that her biography will be forever littered with those damned "What ifs". I hate those things, don't you?

Here's to you, Gerry!

Tom Degan
tomdegan@frontiernet.net

AFTERTHOUGHT:

Abril Adams gave me that photograph on credit. She left the area shortly thereafter and I still owe her twenty bucks for it. Abril, if you're reading this....

AFTERTHOUGHT, 4/4/11:

Nicole Frederick is today a musician of impressive accomplishment. Although not yet twenty, she is a violinist with the Crane Symphony Orchestra. Here is a link to a performance they gave recently of Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 1, Movement 4. Nicole can be seen fourth from the left of the inner circle closest to the conductor - almost in front of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldaj9iyCfs


She is also a great singer and a fine actress. I can't even begin to describe to you what a privilege and a joy it is for me to be a mere footnote in this kid's biography.

186 Comments:

At 10:06 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

She was the breaker of the glass ceiling. She stood up for women when they were attacked because of they were women. She stood up for Sarah Palin, even though they were as about as far apart on the political spectrum as possible.
I respected her because her beliefs and values where greater than any party. Even though I disagreed with her almost every position, she was my kind of liberal.

 
At 2:28 AM, Blogger Murr Brewster said...

I can still remember the thrill. And the dismay as she was taken down, and I use those words deliberately. Now there is no limit to the lies that are put in service of those who want to take someone down.

 
At 2:28 AM, Blogger Murr Brewster said...

PS Uh, you don't look any older in your profile picture. Huh?

 
At 9:04 AM, Blogger tnlib said...

She not only was taken down for something someone else - her hubby - allegedly did but Republicans have no qualms electing a man who hires prostitutes and wears diapers. And that's only the beginning. A beautiful tribute to a smart savvy woman.

 
At 10:07 AM, Anonymous TBrowns44 said...

Rest in Peace Geraldine Ferraro.

Let's hope we have learned lessons instead of the Sexist Scumbag Dirt that puts down women politicians even to this day.

To them I say "Sir, Have You No Shame??"

 
At 10:22 AM, Anonymous TBrowns44 said...

Rest in Peace Gerraldine Ferraro.

Too bad the Democrats and Liberals use the most sexist attacks on female politicians to this day.

 
At 10:37 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Sexist attacks are certainly not party exclusive, and please try to refrain from making it seem that way.

Thank-you in advance.

 
At 10:39 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Tom,

That is a beautiful picture of you guys. She was a glowing beautiful woman from the inside-out.

Thank-you for sharing that with us all.

MNP

 
At 10:41 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

She was a lovely woman, Mary. As sweet and as down to earth as you can imagine. I'm grateful to have had the pleasure of her company for even so short a time.

 
At 11:05 AM, Anonymous Umbria said...

Mary Mayhem: What were you saying about TNLib's posting???

 
At 11:09 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

I don’t know whether she had diminished “faculties”, but she had apparently lost the political BS filter that any politician is equipped with to carefully manage what they say and how they say it. If you look at her statement, in a clumsy and roundabout way, she was trying to bring the sexism issue to the forefront on behalf of Hillary. And, she was trying to juxtapose it with the race issue. She was basically trying to use his “maleness” against him to rally support for Hillary. The attempt was equally devoid of any relevancy, but what she said was nothing compared to the run-of-the-mill mudslinging that happens all over the country in political ads. It just so happens the powers that be have determined that you “can’t go there”. What she said was, in the final analysis, true. And, the fact was driven home (nay, celebrated) on a daily basis by the black community during the presidential campaign. If anyone questions the impact race had on his election, they weren’t paying attention. I defend her for saying it.

 
At 12:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I met Ms.Ferraro in 1976 when I dated her daughter, Donna for a short time. It was during the summertime on Fire Island. And the year of the bicentenial.
BOB FORD

 
At 12:53 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Harley, I agree race might (might) have had a lot to do with the election because the African-American community was very energized and that contributed to a vote, probably other minorities as well, and probably a few votes out of sheer curiosity; however, I do not agree with Ms. Ferarro, because I believe Obama was more than qualified, an excellent campaigner, and would have been a candidate regardless of his race. It doesn't change the way feel about her. Wish Obama could absorb some of her qualities...

 
At 3:03 PM, Blogger Darlene said...

I loved Geraldine Ferraro and admired her courage. Don't think that it doesn't take courage to run if you are a woman. Sexism lives.

Tom, you know I love you too, but I must chide you for another form of ism. Ageism is also prevalent and I must point it out every time someone thoughtlessly uses an ageist remark. To say that diminished capacities were due to age is as stereotyped as saying all women are as stupid as Sarah Palin. I don't think Geraldine had diminished capacities, but if she did it could have been the result of her illness.

We all make thoughtless remarks so I give you a pass, Tom.

 
At 3:54 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Perhaps I might have worded that a tad differently, Darlene. Good point.

I am humbled again by wisdom.

 
At 4:01 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

She seemed like a reasonable person to me. I do find it interesting that the name Zacaro didn't come up your story. Her husband's finances affected her reputation and electability. But you don't much from dems when their people have shady connections. For instance you dont hear much about Tony Rezko. Every dem I know is more that happy to point out Jeannine Pirro's husband Albert.

 
At 6:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I admired Dukakis Ferrarro as a ticket, they are not the Stupid Idiots Clinton/Gore or Obama/Biden are.

 
At 6:40 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 6:57 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Smart move deleting the above comment. In five years of blogging I won't say that it is the dumbest thing ever posted on this site, but it is definitely in the top twenty. The very fact that you chose to remove it yourself shows exceedingly good judgment.

Sincerely,

Tom Degan

 
At 7:02 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Anonymous said...
I admired Dukakis Ferrarro as a ticket, they are not the Stupid Idiots Clinton/Gore or Obama/Biden are.

stupid idiots ? hmmm.....

 
At 7:14 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Dukakis, Mondale, what's the difference.

Electoral college 525:13. She was running against Ronnie with Walter. Bad timing. The biggest presidential blowout ever.

What was the content of the deleted comment. Sounds like it was a good one.

 
At 7:52 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 8:19 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

TSVDP
I thought you were left wing.

I said long ago on this blog that the left would LOVE Palin if some of the following were true:
- She was butt ugly.
- She was a lesbian.
- She made her daughter have an abortion.
- She aborted a down syndrome child.
- If she didnt have a man that can take care of her needs.
- She believed in running her state into bankruptcy.

 
At 8:33 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

You noticed that, too, Mary? No comment. I let these things stand as monuments to imbecility. Thank you, though, for pointing it out,

Tom

 
At 8:36 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

"They hate Palin because she is beautiful"

Have another sip. Seriously.

 
At 8:50 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Palin is beautiful?! She isn't hideous or anything, but she's not beautiful That's a matter of opinion. Smart? She's not really doing anything to demonstrate that; although, she's pretty "street smart" for scamming all of these public showings and media events for cash, she sure has made money for herself by doing absolutely NOTHING!

Jealous? You have got to be kidding me? I would rather have acid thrown all over my face and weigh 200 lbs than be Palin!

These are the most preposterous statements I have ever heard.

I can't stand Palin because she's a fear mongering "Tea Bagger" who wants to set women back another 40-50 years. She's corrupt and clearly in the pocket of the Cocaine Brothers. Every social and fiscal issue she has taken a stand on, I feel the opposite about. My views have not changed in the 12 years I've been voting. She can dye her hair pink, get a million tattoos, adorn a giant strap-on and abort as million children as she wants to, but if she still opposes/supports the things that I am for/against and caters to the working class and religious crowd under false pretenses, because she obviously has NO concept of the working class or any religious virtue, I will still vehemently dislike and oppose her.

 
At 11:31 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Mary
Support your claim about Sarah Palin
that "She's corrupt and clearly in the pocket of the Cocaine Brothers."

With facts, links, reviewable evidence or restate your claim as your opinion, but not the truth.

Geraldine Ferraro would demand you do so.

 
At 1:39 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Browns, What's the matter? Someone suddenly cut off your hands? Google Sarah Palin and Corrupt or Sarah Palin and American's For Prosperity...

Argue it all you want, but you'd be missing the point entirely, as you already are. It doesn't matter who's paying her bills, she's a fraud. I'd never vote for her or like her because of the reasons I clearly mentioned. She is against EVERY issue I'm for, and FOR everything I'm against. If the friggen Dhali Llama was financing her, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. If I believe her policies are not aligned with my family and my country's best interests, you would have to severely torture me before I voted for her.

She reportedly makes 75k -100k a speech plus 1 million a year from Fox, plus God knows what else for all of her "appearances" (feel free to google that too, conservative estimates, because only public records are provided) and other shenanigans and pretends to be in touch with the good 'ole boys/ladies, the "real" America. She also pretends to be this prim and proper religious woman, but as we can see, nothing "Christian" there, only "end of times" hokum filled with Anti-Jesus vile; once again, conveniently religious to garner the good 'ole boy/lady vote from "real" America. And where does this Harpie live? Fricking Alaska! About as far from good 'ole boy country as you can get.

It's almost as bad as some of these rich conservatives playing the "real" America and good 'ole boy card when they live on the East coast in the BLUE STATES, because they couldn't stand the crappiness of crap that they love to refer to as "real" America...Like the South...
Let's see the politicians crap all over a place like South Louisiana, take away all social services, convert all the prisons to private corporations, cut the education spending, etc. etc. and then actually have to go live down there...in Scotlandville, Baton Rouge, LA bitches...I propose we build a White House there...or at least a "summer home"...then they [politicians, Obama and H. Clinton included] could get the full Hurricane/Monsoon Season effect....(LA gov's mansion doesn't count, in an uncharacteristically nice neighborhood for BR and guarded like a fortress)

Tom's Strip Club and Tatto parlor neighbors wouldn't have anything on that...

And as a preemptive strike on all of the fallacious attacks that I'm sure will ensue with assorted diatribe such as, "All of the liberal elitists live on the East coast in the Blue states...how can they be in touch?" or crap like...They don't campaign on cutting social services and taxes for corporations and rich americans with the false promise "rich by association" and fiscal responsibility. When they [liberals] do actually VOTE FOR/APPROVE/CAMPAIGN FOR these things I am against, I do NOT approve.

 
At 2:23 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Diy,
Palin does some pageant waving for a cool 12 million

Sarah Palin is corrupt

Sarah Palin is the Brothers Koch's polished little moppet

 
At 2:27 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

*edit

Palin is Koch's moppet

 
At 3:21 AM, Blogger Lydia said...

I am not as advanced as you Tom, and so am still a Democrat.....one who was absolutely star-struck in a campaign crowd in Eugene, Oregon, when VP candidate Ferraro shook her hand. I judge women on their handshakes and she had a great strong one that I thought about as I voted for that ticket. I was crestfallen by the outcome of that election and I think your 7th paragraph here is the best summation ever written of how I felt, still feel about Reagan.

 
At 6:45 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

Cocaine Brothers?

Watch the Clinton Chronicles on youtube. You will enjoy it.

 
At 6:54 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

boltok!

[LONG, PROLONGED SIGH]

The so-called "Clinton Chronicles" video was discredited almost two decades ago. It was produced and distributed by Jerry Falwell. It's pure bullshit - from beginning to the end. I saw it. I know what I'm talking about here.

Is it any wonder you're so appallingly ill-informed?

Seriously and sincerely,

Tom Degan

 
At 9:01 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

So Free Willie wasn't shagging any centerfolds? That was the best part. Hate to think that was BS. It would ruin his rep.

And I assume he didn't know Paula Jones and there were never any coke drops in AR.

Whatever happened to W Hubble?

 
At 10:57 AM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Mary,

Just reviewed some of the links you provide to support your claim that
"she's (Sarah Palin) corrupt and clearly in the pocket of the Cocaine Brothers."
Never saw so many links to Pulitzer Prize winners in one post. No really, a great cross section of middle America if there ever was one. Best part is how the bloggers and posters backed up their claims with great evidence.
And Media Matters is after FOX News?
Please Mary, your past posts have led me to believe you were smart enough to search out facts for the sake of the truth, not as a way to support your preconceived notions of what you hope to be the truth.
Geraldine Ferraro would be ashamed of you.

 
At 12:17 PM, Anonymous Hairplugs Biden said...

Its still a mystery to me how 2 bullshit artists like Barack and me got elected!

 
At 2:28 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Browns Really? Because I gave you the link for Google... and pretty much told you to:) so....

Nice ad hominem, BTW. Sarah Pain would be very proud.

 
At 4:20 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

As I am sure you are as well Mary.
So you really dnt have anything to support your claim? Do you?

 
At 7:50 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@Browns - If you think I'm going to spend a minute of my life contributing to Sarah Palin's ego by backing up my claims so that you can spin, deny, defend the sources, you are sadly mistaken and might need a head exam. Inductive and deductive reasoning back up my statement; but I digress (siggggggggghhhhhhh), you are still missing the point.

The Point :

It was stated:
Liberals hate Sarah Palin because of (insert whatever BS the OP said, which is now gone, removed by OP)
I stated my reasons for hating her, which many on the left share.
So even if you discredit every source I give you, many among the Left will still continue to hate SP FOR the reasons I gave.
I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here.

This blog is about Ms. Gerry Ferraro, and I'm sure she's be pissed at us both for letting Sarah Palin get in the way. So STFU.

 
At 8:21 PM, Anonymous Clarence said...

Ferraro, ignited a controversy when she told the Daily Breeze of Torrance that:

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any color], he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."


Bill Clinton helped sink his wife's chances for an endorsement from Ted Kennedy by belittling Barack Obama as nothing but a race-based candidate:

"A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee," the former president told the liberal lion from Massachusetts, according to the gossipy new campaign book, "Game Change."


To the best of my knowledge since Geraldine and Bill are Democrats I do not believe they are genuine racists.
- Clarence

 
At 10:19 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Mary said "STFU"


Tom said "Love and Peace,"



Browns44 says "Hate is such a wasted emotion and highly over rated."

 
At 10:33 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ browns STFU.
Love,

MM

 
At 1:16 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Browns44, meet Palin (RealPalin, not IdealPalin):
scroll down to "Michael Heath" (heck, read the whole thread), Sullivan on Palin & Palin's plastic history.

Also, on-topic, I have no opinion on Geraldine Ferraro. This is because I know nothing about her. If I was on TV, that would make me a pundit.

 
At 9:49 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
Where have you been? I was beginning to think that you hopped a flight to Tripoli to take up arms and share your knowledge with the mooselem brothers to advance their fight of democracy. I think Libya would benefit tremendously from your thoughtful input and service. The Libyans, unlike the Americans, would appreciate your contribution.

 
At 10:52 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

boltok, I find your posts amusing to say the least. In a weird way I really do enjoy them. But I have to ask you:

Why is it your assumption that those of us who lean to the left love our country any less than you do?

Cheers!

Tom

 
At 11:10 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Good question, Tom, I'm wondering that myself.

 
At 12:02 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

We love our country...it's the assholes that control it that we don't like. WE THE PEOPLE should be in control of our destiny, NOT rich greedy jerks who want to steal the commons for themselves and their friends. I don't understand why conservatives have a hard time with that concept !!!

 
At 1:16 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Ellis - Amen.

 
At 2:36 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

It’s sometimes difficult to determine whether to think the left doesn’t love the country or whether to think you lack understanding on some issues. I tend to think the latter for the most part. I tend to think most folks have basically the same desires in life – barring the fringe elements.

But, what floors me is that the same sentiments are lobbed against the right leaning folks as or more often on this blog than the other way around - which I expect. But, I tend to try to wade through all the ad hominem garbage and speak to the issue.

At some point, you’ve got to either put down the stones or move out of the glass house.

 
At 4:05 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

TD and the Leftists,
I don't question your love of country at all. I just think the collective you have a perverse fetish.

And, MOs Canadian. Ergo, I don't care what he thinks.

 
At 4:58 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

I am going to take at face value the claim that the lefties love this country as they claim. As
proof of this love, take this statement:
"it's the assholes that control it that we don't like. WE THE PEOPLE should be in control of our destiny, NOT rich greedy jerks who want to steal the commons for themselves and their friends."

Lets take a few minutes to analyze this statement.
"Don't like those who control it".
That would mean our elected officials or does it mean some invisible group of people?
"We the PEOPLE should be control of our destiny". Does that mean being required to join a government program is good or bad? Does that mean having to buy a product we may not want but have to because the government removes any other product, is that ok or is it bad?
Is it ok therefore, to take more from the wealthy by taxes in order to level the playing ground? If so isn't that the people running the country controlling some of it's citizen's destinys?
What is hard for me to understand is how liberals claim to like our country, yet seem to support groups whose sole intent is to remove the freedoms the left so wants.
Example: The fact that the Muslims in our country seem to be ok with the idea of living under Taliban rule.(They aren't marching in the streets against the concept.) Liberals seem ok with that, but fail or refuse to understand that under that rule, the reproductive rights of women would be taken away. And that's just for starters. Yet if a conservative says anything that could be remotely interpreted as anti - Islam, the left piles on.
Now if the left really loved this nation why would they allow those who support the end of our way of living to speak our against us? Show me gay rights in a Muslim country. Do we see gay rights groups protesting at the UN over the treatment of gays in the world of Islam?
NO, we don't.
Look, I'd don't claim to be a mental giant. And I'm sure the posts making light of what I said will be fast and ruthless
(IE: Mary's request that I STFU.
So much for civil discourse with the left!)
But this is some of what turns my head backwards about the liberal/left/progressives.
I know, I need to STFU.

 
At 6:55 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Browns: Do you know how many Muslim countries actually live under Taliban rule? Out of over a billion Muslims, what percentage would that encompass? Why should people from other countries be required to march in our streets protesting Taliban rule if they aren't from anywhere near that area?

Funny that you bring up Islam and women, how many countries with a majority Muslim population have had a female leader? Now compare that to the US.

Also, check on the date that a lot of those countries granted women's suffrage. Yep, the first one beat the US by two whole years.

Are you sure you aren't mistaking Arab with Muslim like the rest of the xenophobic teabaggers?

Of course some Muslims feel oppressed or want a better opportunity so they move here. And what to the repubs do? Vote to set women back 40-50 years, by trying to take away reproductive rights.

You'd be better off treating the US Muslims better. My college has a very HIGH amount of Muslim students and staff; were are the most diverse compus in CO, and most of them are very CONSERVATIVE in the fiscal and social sense, but won't vote republican because of the xenophobia.

 
At 7:00 PM, Anonymous Clarence said...

Ferraro, ignited a controversy when she told the Daily Breeze of Torrance that:

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any color], he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."


Bill Clinton helped sink his wife's chances for an endorsement from Ted Kennedy by belittling Barack Obama as nothing but a race-based candidate:

"A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee," the former president told the liberal lion from Massachusetts, according to the gossipy new campaign book, "Game Change."


Let me make it perfectly clear, if a teabagger made any of the above quotes they would be racist. But since Geraldine and Bill are Democrats, they are not racist.
- Clarence

 
At 7:06 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Browns44 "Example: The fact that the Muslims in our country seem to be ok with the idea of living under Taliban rule."
I see you just got back from the paint store. What's a broad brush like that cost?

"(They aren't marching in the streets against the concept.)"
So...they aren't marching in the streets to protest the thing that they aren't under?

"Liberals seem ok with that, but fail or refuse to understand that under that rule, the reproductive rights of women would be taken away."
Actually, the restriction or elimination of women's rights in America is far more likely to be pushed by the Christian Right, rather than a subset of American Muslims. It's not Muslims in national and state seats who are restricting abortion, or AmeriMullahs on Al-FoxNews demanding the defunding of Planned Parenthood, for instance.
If you want to be terrified of part of the 7% of the population somehow tearing up the Constitution and a couple hundred years of law, go right ahead. Crocheting would be more useful.

"And that's just for starters."
That's a terrible start. You suck. Be better at starting.

"Yet if a conservative says anything that could be remotely interpreted as anti - Islam, the left piles on."
Quote: "The fact that the Muslims in our country seem to be ok with the idea of living under Taliban rule"
That's not criticism. That's demagoguery.
Most American Muslims are just like you. They eat too much, watch too much TV, are on the PTA, work in your office, walk your streets in uniform, and like baseball as much as they hate the next round of immigrants.
The reason you don't notice these ones is because they're just like you.
Stop tarring your neighbor. Being a first, second or third generation immigrant is tough enough without getting smeared by you.

 
At 7:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MO, if the Islamic laws become the laws of a country then all your b.s is a fucking lie, as below.

"Actually, the restriction or elimination of women's rights in America is far more likely to be pushed by the Christian Right, rather than a subset of American Muslims. It's not Muslims in national and state seats who are restricting abortion, or AmeriMullahs on Al-FoxNews demanding the defunding of Planned Parenthood, for instance.
If you want to be terrified of part of the 7% of the population somehow tearing up the Constitution and a couple hundred years of law, go right ahead. Crocheting would be more useful."

 
At 7:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous, You publish that shit you didn't cite because LEft wing sleaze bags and Muslims are together. What do both have in common? They stand for genocide so fuck your asshole hate.

 
At 7:44 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

See, what did I tell you! Bring up the liberal, left, progressive support of a group who wants to do the USA harm and look at how they jump to attack.
Gee, for people claim to like America (except for the people who lead it), liberals sure have a problem when it is pointed out that they have turned a blind eye to the attacks on our country by Muslims and their continued threat but instead want to attack those who bring this to their attention.

"You'd be better off treating the US Muslims better." See, it's all OUR fault that Muslims hate America.

"Being a first, second or third generation immigrant is tough enough without getting smeared by you."
Wow Mo, I didn't know living in Canada was so crappy! Where ever your family fled from to get to Canada must have been a real hell hole! Care to share with us where that was?

And finally, if it's anti-American, you can bet it will be something liberals, lefties and progressives will support.

 
At 7:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous, You publish that shit you didn't cite because LEft wing sleaze bags and Muslims are together. What do both have in common? They stand for genocide so fuck your asshole hate.

7:32 PM"

People, anyone, people, must have a translation, pleeeze, need your attention, anyone?

 
At 7:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZjD-Km1C6Y&feature=player_embedded

Van Jones dare you to watch this.

 
At 8:04 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Thanks, Browns, for showing us your true xenophobic colors.

Love,
MM

PS. May your maker have mercy on your soul.

 
At 8:10 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

You are welcome Mary, and thanks for showing us your "I love the enemy of America" colors.

 
At 8:52 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Browns, I can smell the ignorance, but there is no reasoning with an unreasonable person.

At leas Boltok and Anonymous/clarencethomas/biden's hair plugs/liberalism is a mental disorder (and all if his other names) make me laugh....

 
At 9:11 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 9:17 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Modus Operandi/Jefferson's Guardian is just a bigot against Christians, Kisss Muslim Ass because the Muslims and Liberals are bed partners, same thing for Mary Mayhem saying shit like people don't like Palestinians because of skin color.

Leftist and Muslims serve each other and everyone knows this, dumb clucks like modus find as much fault with a Christian that burns a Koran almost as much as the Muslim Terrorists who cut people's heads off.

Planned Parenthood caught accepting donations to kill black babies, so the bigots as usual are the liberals and leftists.

 
At 9:27 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Patrick Henry said: "“It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!”

Patrick Henry said this? Modus Operandi/Jefferson's guardian is a Canadian sleaze bag leftwing bully.

YOu don't like Christianity, Keep you nose out of the USA.

Mary Mayhem/Darlene are nothing compared to Sarah Palin, probably hate her cause she doesn't kill her children like the poison of Left Wing AMerica.

 
At 9:36 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Wow. Republican Jesus would be so proud of you guys...

 
At 10:24 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Mary
Answer these:

was the collapse of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc a good or bad thing?

Was Americas defeat in Vietnam a good or bad thing?

Did America deserve the first attack on the World Trade Center?

Did America deserve the second attack on the World Trade Center?

Did America deserve the attack on the USS Cole?

Did those American sailors on the Cole deserve to die?

Is Sharia Law good or bad to live under?

Do your Muslim acquaintances want to live under Sharia Law?

Would they do anything to not live under Sharia Law?

Should America apologize to the Muslim world for not being Muslim?

Should America require non Muslims to obey Muslim laws?

Should Muslims be forced to obey the laws of America?

Is France having a great experance with their growing Muslim population?

Have England and Germany had a great experance with their growing Muslim popuation?

Just asking.

 
At 10:26 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Mary
My intent is not to make you laugh, but to cause you to think outside the liberal box you have placed your self in.

 
At 10:59 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Yes Browns, I see the light. Let's round them (the Muslims) all up, interrogate the hell out of them; when they can't prove their innocence, put them in their own separate part of A-mur-ika and, put them to work. We are sitting on a major source of labor that we are not utilizing. Maybe they can load ammo and assorted weaponry onto our planes and ships, you know, the ones headed to the Middle east, and then when they (the Muslims) are used up as labor, we can "off" them. And when the Wussy EU catches on and tries to stop us, we'll burn the evidence...
Then after we lose this war, the EU can designate Israel as Palestine out of guilt, a place for Muslims to be Muslim among other Muslims..They can kick the Jewish people out to the West Bank and Gaza, cut off their supply lines and dump white phosphorus on them everyday.

 
At 11:32 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Oh. Btw. The USS Cole was my first ship.

 
At 11:47 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

MARY,
Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.
I think you have become a bit "extreme" in your interpretation of what I have said and what I have asked you. I'm sorry if I had anything to do with that happening.
Not once have I called for the "extreme" actions you site in your latest post.
It is strange to me that instead of a measured response to my posts, you go from zero to "extreme" in 3 seconds. Isn't that the hall mark of the right wing, not a liberal?
All I have asked you to do is be real in defining who it is at war with us. What group of people for what ever their reason, wants to do us and our country harm.
It's not Jews, it's not Christians, it's not Hindus, or Buddhists. It is those who follow the religion of Islam. If they are not true followers of Islam, then your Muslim friends should no problem in publicly denouncing them. Do they?
I do hope you can see out side the extreme liberal box you have placed your self in..ask your self these questions,
1. What would America have to do to end the terrorists Islamic war on us?
2 Are you willing to live in under the conditions that ending this terrorist conflict would bring about?

Think Mary think, don't lash out, but think.

 
At 11:49 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Mary

Thank you for your service to our country. Do you know any of the victims of the Muslim terrorists attack on the Cole?.

 
At 12:31 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "MO, if the Islamic laws become the laws of a country then all your b.s is a fucking lie, as below."
That's a mighty big "if".

Browns44 "Bring up the liberal, left, progressive support of a group who wants to do the USA harm and look at how they jump to attack. Gee, for people claim to like America (except for the people who lead it), liberals sure have a problem when it is pointed out that they have turned a blind eye to the attacks on our country by Muslims and their continued threat but instead want to attack those who bring this to their attention."
There are bad Muslims. Nobody here that I'm aware of is saying that there aren't. The issue is the persistent, ignorant and deliberate conflation of "Americans who are Muslim" with "Islamists". In doing so somewhere between 3-10 million American citizens are smeared. Hence my "broad brush" comment.

"And finally, if it's anti-American, you can bet it will be something liberals, lefties and progressives will support."
Pro-civil rights and pro-Constitution is not "anti-American". Not if words mean anything.
The guys at Park 51, for example, do have the right to practice their religion and they do have the right to (within zoning restrictions) use their own property as they see fit. Do I like that? No. Do (or should) my feelings in this matter in any way carry the force of Law? No way.

"Mary My intent is not to make you laugh, but to cause you to think outside the liberal box you have placed your self in."
Mary gets a box? *Pout!* I didn't get a box.

 
At 12:47 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

(Tom, a comment disappeared. Here's the link to where it was. It's also repeated, with further editing to add awesome, below)

TSVDP "Modus Operandi/Jefferson's Guardian is just a bigot against Christians, Kisss Muslim Ass because the Muslims and Liberals are bed partners..."
I'm not "a bigot against Christians".
I am for Free Speech. Just as you have the right to [poorly] smear Muslims, I have the right to criticize your criticism (and you have the same for mine).
I am against groups pushing to have their rights include the "right" to oppress others. Civil rights apply even to groups that you don't like. If that weren't so, they wouldn't be rights at all. They would instead be privileges granted by the majority. This stance would remain in effect even if the Muslims had a hope in hell of rewriting our laws.

"Leftist and Muslims serve each other and everyone knows this, dumb clucks like modus find as much fault with a Christian that burns a Koran almost as much as the Muslim Terrorists who cut people's heads off."
You must be talking about some other modus. I, for one, see no equivalence. One of those is a legitimate if disrespectful form of protest and the other is murder.

"Planned Parenthood caught accepting donations to kill black babies, so the bigots as usual are the liberals and leftists."
Did they actually use those donations only for black abortions? No. Did they hunt the streets at night, scouring it for brown people to abort with extreme prejudice? No.
As stings go, that anti-PP one wasn't great, but it did let the rest of us get to see the rest of you go from Southern Strategy to pretending to care about brown people for a while.

"Patrick Henry said this? Modus Operandi/Jefferson's guardian is a Canadian sleaze bag leftwing bully."
No. No he did not. Try again.
Also, Henry, among other things, was an anti-federalist, putting him on the side that lost the battle to choose the direction the Constitution took. He was a major player in getting the Bill of Rights added, though, and he did swing, eventually, over to (to some degree) the Federalist side in the end.

"YOu don't like Christianity..."
True. I don't like Christianity. That said, I try to avoid smearing the entire group with the sins (as it were) of some of those within it and I in no way support the suppression of their civil rights (including freedom of religion), up to the point that they (and, again, this is not all of them) insist that their rights supersede the rights of others.

 
At 1:14 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

was the collapse of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc a good or bad thing? depends on who you are.
Was Americas defeat in Vietnam a good or bad thing? Bad, but we shouldn't have been there in the first place, also, depends on who you are
Did America deserve the first attack on the World Trade Center? Definitely not, since Al Qaeda was responsible, I don't see how this is relevant, there is no religion or country named Al Qaeda to my knowledge.
Did America deserve the second attack on the World Trade Center? See above, but out foreign policies certainly didn't prevent these attacks.
Did America deserve the attack on the USS Cole?
Nope, again Al Qaeda, seeing a pattern here??
Did those American sailors on the Cole deserve to die?
Nope, considering there are under 350 people on a DDG, I knew everyone, some better than others. One third of my division died that day. EW1 Rex and EW2 Owens were down below while the rest of us were on watch/maintenance, and the explosion blast hit berthing...Thank god no one said they deserved to die, that might anger me.
Is Sharia Law good or bad to live under?
Bad, thank God we don't and won't ever have it here since only 0.8% of the population is Muslim; who knows how much of that .8% wants a secular government?
Do your Muslim acquaintances want to live under Sharia Law?
It depends. They keep certain elements, it's a sign of nobility, but nothing oppressive. Hijab and abaya are optional to them, but they choose to wear them as a sign of status and to stay pious.
Would they do anything to not live under Sharia Law?
Again
conditional. Someone in Afghan, or Saudi, would probably say yes. Please educate yourself on this...the different countries that practice this, and how strict...
Should America apologize to the Muslim world for not being Muslim?
Nope, who's asking them to?
Should America require non Muslims to obey Muslim laws? Nope, thank God, who's asking us to? How do they plan on implementing this? Seriously? You fear this?
Should Muslims be forced to obey the laws of America? If they live in America yes, and they do or they are prosecuted by American Law (or thrown in Gitmo)
Is France having a great experance with their growing Muslim population?
Depends on who you ask. I'd be pretty pissed if a democracy didn't allow me to wear my veil.
Have England and Germany had a great experance with their growing Muslim popuation? Once again depends on who you ask. WTF do France, the UK, and Germany have to do with the price of tea in China?

Now answer MY questions from a few questions up:
Do you know how many Muslim countries actually live under Taliban rule? Out of over a billion Muslims, what percentage would that encompass? Why should people from other countries be required to march in our streets protesting Taliban rule if they aren't from anywhere near that area? How many countries with a majority Muslim population have had a female leader? Check on the date that a lot of those countries granted women's suffrage, When was the first country? And finally...Are you sure you aren't mistaking Arab with Muslim like the rest of the xenophobics?

Oh, I just want everyone to know, I'm typing this on my brand new Macbook, it finally came, so no more HTC Evo only blogging....I love it and wanted to brag...

 
At 6:01 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Browns44 makes much of the fact that the victims of the Cole attacks we're killed buy Muslims. Most of the American casualties in WWII were killed by Protestants. What does that prove?

 
At 6:37 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

ModusOperandi/Jefferson's Guardian, Do you all see Modus Operandi saying Patrick Henry did not say something?? They are the same person.

What do we need to listen to this Atheist garbage hater of a human being.

So now Patrick Henry didn't say it. You are lying.

You smear people, who cares because some obscure "science blog" says it, you bigot. No time for your nonsense of obscure websites.

 
At 6:49 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

TSVDP: I am going to assume that English is not your first language - because if it is not - you didn't pay much attention when they tried to teach you how to write.

 
At 7:30 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/patrick+henry

Here are quotes from Patrick Henry coming out of a webpage CA, Canada.

The Atheists in their hate prove nothing at all that these statements were NOT made by Patrick Henry and the Atheists seem to have their boogeyman of David Barton who one is not even aquainted with. There would be no reason to trust Media Matters and there $300,000+ salaried head David Brock.

TJ likewise believed in God, http://www.free2pray.info/TJefferson.html Signed off letters "In the year of Our Lord".

Atheists are trying to rewrite history.

----------

As to my profile if it shows some sentences as being "incoherent", the google profile just in case that was read seems to reorder what one writes.

 
At 8:05 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

TomDegan writes: "TSVDP: I am going to assume that English is not your first language - because if it is not - you didn't pay much attention when they tried to teach you how to write."

Degan says this because he does not like the Message or Messenger.

Let's remember, Degan writes things like this:

"If present trends continue, the second decade of the twenty-first century promises to be one of positive change for people all over the world. As the call for revolution in Egypt seems to be spreading throughout the Arab world, so, too, should the Madison Revolution be a cry to the American people to wake up and demand what is rightfully theirs."

Or how about this, on one column, the great champion of partial birth abortion Ted Kennedy, on the other hand, a woman that doesn't kill her children and is held up to ridicule.

The question is literally screaming to be posed: Can this woman possibly get any stupider? I really shouldn't be too hard on her. Sarah Palin has made my life a gut-busting delight and my work so much easier. When one has made his or her name doing what I do - mining the streams of American politics for those choice nuggets of unintentional humor - the former governor of Alaska is the gift that just keeps giving and giving.

Huh??

http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html

 
At 8:08 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Thank you so much for re-posting those! I stand by every word.

please come up with more if you wish!

Seriously and sincerely,

Tom Degan

 
At 9:07 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

TSVP, It's impossible to prove that someone didn't say something; therefore, the burden of proof shifts to the person who said they did say it. Barton is not proof. This is why we have innocent until proven guilty. It's the same concept.

 
At 9:32 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

Harley/Browns:
Of course the left loves their country. Think about it in context. What deer tick, at least subliminally, doesn't love the deer it's sucking dry.

 
At 9:45 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Barton isn't the source or at least being spoken of here and shabby sources like a blog out of Michigan or Media Matters are not any more credible.

Everything is David Barton with the Atheists but no one even brought this person up.

Atheists are cherry picking furthermore quotes so they can't say every quote of which there are many are not valid furthermore, it is just in their hateful leftwing view of America, they try to bring it down. It's a cottage industry for them but they prove nothing.

 
At 9:56 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

TomDegan: Fine, I am glad you still stand by what you say.

The Left is in bed with the Radical Muslims, they both hate the west.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2011/04/01/los-angeles-exhibits-palin-crucifixion-as-art/

More Left Wing hate of Christianity, is it any wonder the Leftists/Atheists/Muslim extremists coalitions wishes to undermine the Christian foundation of America with their own BS, blogs out of Michigan with the city the Union destroyed, Detroit.

More examples of it, the Left Wing YES, INDEED WITH THE DEATH PANELS OF THEIR UNCONSTITUTIONAL DISASTER OF HEALTH CARE, loves to be irreverent and some of the left wing scum has even voiced almost as much disapproval at Rev. Jones' Bible burning as the atrocious acts by Radical Muslims.

 
At 10:01 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Extremism in the defense of Librium:

"The Left is in bed with the Radical Muslims, they both hate the west."

Do you have even a hint of a clue what a jaw-droppingly insane statement that is?

Me thinks you're just a tad paranoid.

Honestly.

 
At 10:29 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

TSVP, So prove it...Prove what Patrick Henry said....

 
At 10:44 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

Democrats go from love to hate quickly when it comes to religion, and follow a sequence based on the chronology of sabbath.

Mooselems, sabbath on friday, love them.

Jewish, sabbath on Saturday, generally the left doesn't really like them, but will tolerate because many have been brain washed into liberalism and comprise the left's inteligencia. They hate jews outside of the USA, (e.g., Israel).

Christian, sabbath on Sunday, they hate those extremist bastards.



Also, liberals will get in bed with any group of people that pro creates quickly for the votes and will promote abortion among the part of their base they really don't like.

Hope that helps you understand the logic.

 
At 10:58 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Our Rest day is Sunday. It could be Friday, Saturday or any other day of the week but Our Christian nation recognizes that Sunday is the Lord's day.

Pearl Harbor does not need to be proved to believe it exists, I need not prove man walked on the moon. What a hassle that would be.

 
At 11:21 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

TSVDP
If the Christians could move the Sabbath the Thursday, the left would like them again. But then their would be a chain reaction, the Jews would take Wedensday, and then the Mooselems would Tuesday to gain favor with the American left. It's futile.

 
At 11:28 AM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Tom,

World War II is over, we defeated NATIONS, not religions. That is the difference.
What nation is currently attacking us? None, I'd say.
What group is attacking us, Muslims, I'd say, unless you know differently, if so please share.
If we had been defeated in WWII we would have surrendered to other countries. If we were defeated today, to whom would we surrender?
With whom today do we we sign a peace treaty? What are the terms the Islamic terrorist would accept to end their attacks on us and to end this war?
How did we start this war with radical Islam?

Was it because we used the homeland of Mecca as bases to defend other Muslim countries in the Gulf War One vs Iraq?

Was it because we supported Israel, at one time the only democracy in the Middle East?

Is it because helped defeat the USSR in Afghanistan?

Is it because we get 30% of our oil from Muslim countries by paying the world market price per barrel?

Is it because in the minds of the Extremist Muslim terrorists eyes our liberal life style is wrong and they are just trying to save our souls be forcing us to convert to Islam?

Tom, you tell me, cause I'd don't know the reason. All I know is if we could end the war of terrorism by any method other than the one we are using, our current President would use it. And that should speak volumes.


Mary: From one Mac use to another, peace, enjoy the experience and enjoy today's spring weather.

I am pretty sure that we are fighting Muslims terriorist who are not Arabs.

I am deeply sorry for the loss of your friends and shipmates from the Cole.

 
At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Islam, the only religion endorsed by Himmler

 
At 12:09 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

TSVDP "theblaze.com/blog/2011/04/01/los-angeles-exhibits-palin-crucifixion-as-art/"
That's a terrible painting. She should be hammering the nails in. You know, to match her persistent martyr pose. "The media is out to get me. Nobody lets me tell my side of the story. And thank you for your time, Mister O'Reilly and don't forget to pick up a copy of my new book."

"More examples of it, the Left Wing YES, INDEED WITH THE DEATH PANELS..."
{citation needed}

"...OF THEIR UNCONSTITUTIONAL DISASTER OF HEALTH CARE..."
Obviously. If one part of it is, then it all must be. You're a biblical literalist, I gather?

"...loves to be irreverent and some of the left wing scum has even voiced almost as much disapproval at Rev. Jones' Bible burning as the atrocious acts by Radical Muslims."
{citation needed}
That said, I think that Jones is a boob and a jerk. I also say that he has a right to burn any book he wants, as long as it's his property.

"...I need not prove man walked on the moon. What a hassle that would be."
Yes. Those things are exactly the same as backing up your argument.
On a side note, did you know that TSVDP once said "I am a big stinky poo"? Don't even try to pass off your hate-filled anti-anti-TSVDPity with some obscure website noting its real origin, because I need not prove man walked on the moon.

 
At 12:20 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Now a comment of mine was deleted, and it had a lot of html, so I don't feel like retyping it. Maybe html is the problem?

 
At 12:29 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Browns, I still feel like you can be saved. Please read Blog from a Muslim Indonesian woman and 5 misconceptions.

 
At 12:34 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

(Oh, boy. Disappearing comments)

TSVDP "What do we need to listen to this Atheist garbage hater of a human being."
Now you're just being ridiculous. I don't hate, and even if I did I doubt very much I'd hate "atheist garbage". I didn't even know that garbage could have a belief in god or gods.

"So now Patrick Henry didn't say it. You are lying. You smear people, who cares because some obscure 'science blog' says it, you bigot. No time for your nonsense of obscure websites."
I know, right? That quote is used by people who never have a source, so when I provide one, that means I must be "smearing people".

"http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/patrick+henry Here are quotes from Patrick Henry coming out of a webpage CA, Canada."
First, let me congratulate you on beating irony to death with itself (going from accusing others of using "some obscure website" all the way to promoting some obscure website of your own in the space of two comments. Remarkable)
From following your own link:
Source: Questionable - no sources ever confirmed

"The Atheists in their hate prove nothing at all that these statements were NOT made by Patrick Henry..."
I have never said that all of Henry's quotes were never said by him. I merely pointed out that that one wasn't. Henry said a bunch of things. None of those things matter. Even if Henry wanted the USA to be Christian Nation by Constitution, I say to you again that Henry lost.

"...David Barton who one is not even aquainted with. There would be no reason to trust Media Matters and there $300,000+ salaried head David Brock."
Huh? How does that last bit follow the first?

"TJ likewise believed in God, http://www.free2pray.info/TJefferson.html Signed off letters 'In the year of Our Lord'."
Cool. And he edited the Bible. And his version of Christianity would've get him tossed out of your church. And, just for fun, {citation needed} on that thing you said that links to a page that provides no source. And, lastly, No, Mr. Beck, Jefferson Did Not Date His Documents "In the Year of Our Lord Christ".

"Atheists are trying to rewrite history."
You might want to take a look in the mirror.

 
At 12:43 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MM
These girls have no misconceptions any longer:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/30/only-14-bangladeshi-girl-charged-with-adultery-was-lashed-to-death/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-17/stoned-for-adultery-how-islams-laws-are-being-subverted/#

Lots more where that came from:

Barbarians

 
At 1:16 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan (Reuters) – At least eight foreign U.N. workers were killed, two of them beheaded, on Friday in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-i-Sharif after a demonstration against the burning of Korans by a U.S. preacher, a regional police spokesman said.

Do we see Christians doing this in Rome when Muslims burn Christian churches in Iraq or Iran? (Iranians are not Arab but they are Muslims)
Do Christians murder family members who convert to Christianity?
Are Muslims beat to death in countries where they are in the minority like Christians, followers of Hinduism, or Buddhism are in Indonesia? (Can't blame that on Arabs)
Look, the point I am trying to make is this.
I fully realize that not all Muslims approve or agree with the actions listed above being committed in the name of Islam. I also know however that if a Congressional investigation of Islamic extremism is held, that the only Islamic voices heard are those who are against the hearings. There is no other sound from the Muslim community.
Why is this, becomes my question.
Is it because they fear as much as we should the Muslim extremist?
Or do they agree with the Muslim extremists?

 
At 1:26 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

"Peaceful" muslims aid and abet the barbarians, hence they are as guilty. I don't care how good they are at brainwashing the American left.

Ask Lara Logan about peaceful mooselems. I thing they were practicing before being bestowed with 72 virgins. You need to do your homework before a bequeath of a harem of that size.

 
At 2:18 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"Hope that helps you understand the logic."

Logic? I fail to see any, but I'm going to go out on a limb and try my damnedest. Are you you actually trying to say that the Left hates Christianity because it reveres Sunday as its sabbath, and that the farther any specific religion migrates from that day, the more beholden and linked the Left is to them?

That appears to be your flimsy argument. I have another question: What's the highest grade level you've completed? Just curious.

 
At 2:25 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Tom, there seems to be an assumption by many of the conservative voices that migrate to your blog, that Modusoperandi and I are one and the same.

Interesting. ;-)

 
At 3:09 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

TG
I arrived at my stunning conclusion that the Left hates Christianity because the Sabbath by alternative analyses. First, the left has so little tolerance for religion, other than its own progressivism, that it has fully exhausted its ability to tolerate other beliefts by Saturday morning. That means the mooselems benefit by being first in line for liberal acceptance. The Jews recieve some acceptance, but they really are at the shallows. By Sunday, no accepatance remains for the Christians. Monday to Thursday, the progressives are to busy sodomizing the productive segments of society to think about religion.

If you evidence which refutes this theory, I would love to hear it.

I have degrees in mathematics and economics, and dabble in physics. I have also donated money so I could spend some time on telescopes. Enough about me.

 
At 3:12 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Browns44, you said [bold print my own]...

"I fully realize that not all Muslims approve or agree with the actions listed above being committed in the name of Islam. I also know however that if a Congressional investigation of Islamic extremism is held, that the only Islamic voices heard are those who are against the hearings. There is no other sound from the Muslim community".

Let me ask you a question: If you substituted, in your direct quotation above, the word Christianity for Islam, Christians for Muslims, and Christian for Islamic, do you honestly believe Christians who were not against such inquiries would be for them?

You also claimed that you "know...that if a Congressional investigation..." were held, "only Islamic voices" that were "against" such inquires would be heard.

How do you "know"? Is this "knowledge" due to some sort of divine intervention that you haven't shared with us?

Regardless, singling out a group of Americans for government scrutiny, based on their faith, is divisive and wrong. I would hope you'd agree.

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
I wanted to add, I don't confuse you with MO.

 
At 3:18 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"I have degrees in mathematics and economics, and dabble in physics."

You could have fooled me...

 
At 5:10 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

JG,

You forget one important thing, Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddhists are not killing people because of their religious beliefs. Muslims are.

This makes your argument false. It is not logical to investigate other faiths unless other faiths have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people because of their faith. Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddhists are not sending their children into airports, bus stations, or shopping malls strapped with C4 to blow them selves up along with as many other as they can. Muslims are doing this.
Knowing all of this to be true, why would you NOT investigate Muslim groups?

When Congressman King held his hearing in March of this year were there any Muslim voices that supported his actions? I believe the answer is no, there were none.
Were there any Muslim voices against his actions? The answer is yes there were. There were many and not all Muslim, several liberal groups spoke out against these hearings.
Interesting, isnt it. Hence the reason for statements from Boltok and others pointing out how the left will support any thing that is anti American.

 
At 6:00 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Browns44, you said...

"It is not logical to investigate other faiths unless other faiths have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people because of their faith."

Are there "large numbers" of American Muslims attacking and killing other Americans?

And you said...

"Christians, Hindus, Jews and Buddhists are not sending their children into airports, bus stations, or shopping malls strapped with C4 to blow them selves up along with as many other as they can. Muslims are doing this."

American Muslims? Here...in the United States?

And you also said this...

"Knowing all of this to be true, why would you NOT investigate Muslim groups?"

But, I don't know this to be true. Neither do you.

And, amazingly, you also said this...

"When Congressman King held his hearing in March of this year were there any Muslim voices that supported his actions? I believe the answer is no, there were none."

During Adolph Hitler's rise to power, he had repeatedly blamed the Jews for Germany's defeat in World War I and subsequent economic hardships. They were gradually shut out of German society by the Third Reich through a never-ending series of laws and decrees, culminating in the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 which deprived them of their German citizenship. My question for you is this: Were there any Jewish voices that supported and encouraged Hitler's actions? Think about it. See if you can make any connections here.

And, finally, this brazen and amazingly biased and prejudiced statement...

"Hence the reason for statements from Boltok and others pointing out how the left will support any thing that is anti American."

You mean, anti-white American, don't you? That's really what you're saying here, correct? Because, we are talking about Muslim-Americans, right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but if they're truly citizens of this nation, then they're just as American as you, right?

No, Browns44, you and the others have it all wrong. The Left isn't anti-American, at all, but we are against depriving people of their civil rights -- no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, or religion. Unfortunately, you, and others like you, refuse to, or can't, acknowledge this.

 
At 6:58 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Jefferson's Guardian "Tom, there seems to be an assumption by many of the conservative voices that migrate to your blog, that Modusoperandi and I are one and the same."
This theory of theirs might explain why you're sleeping with my wife.

Browns44 "JG, You forget one important thing, Christians..."
Uh.

"...Hindus..."
Um.

"...Jews..."
Too obvious.

"...Buddhists..."
Oh.
...
You're terrible at this. Those were all first page hits on Google.

"...are not killing people because of their religious beliefs. Muslims are."
Clearly, the others are. Muslims just get more press (which is to some degree ironic as they're only really good at killing other, "heretical", Muslims. When they try for "us" their underwear won't set on fire. Heck, even in Iraq, they're reduced to blowing us up with shells we sold Saddam).

"When Congressman King held his hearing in March of this year were there any Muslim voices that supported his actions? I believe the answer is no, there were none."
I would guess few if any were for it. This is because they can see more clearly than you the, um, milieu it took place in (vis a vis, Peter "Muslim-baiting" King, and the general Rightwing abandonment of Dubya's characterization that we aren't at war with all Muslims).
This is why it was received more poorly than all the other ones were. (On a side note, and excuse my french, but what the fuck is a guy who supported terrorism doing in head of Homeland Security?)

 
At 7:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian said:

"The Left isn't anti-American, at all, but we are against depriving people of their civil rights -- no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, or religion. Unfortunately, you, and others like you, refuse to, or can't, acknowledge this."

Maybe you should change "no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, or religion" to "no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, religion, or tendencies to blow themselves and innocent people up for their cause."

 
At 7:20 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "Maybe you should change 'no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, or religion' to 'no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, religion, or tendencies to blow themselves and innocent people up for their cause.'"
Odd. Do you guys all get your broad brushes at the same place?

 
At 7:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Broad strokes with a dirty brush, kind of like Tea Party members are racists?

 
At 7:34 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

I mean, show someone hear defending a self-exploding Muslim. Show someone here defending a beheadening Muslim. Show someone here defending a throwing-acid-in-the-face-of-a-girl-leaving-school Muslim. Show someone here defending a homo-stoning or non-virgin-unmarred-woman Muslim.
You'll have a hard time finding anything but outliers. The Left does have kooks, but the difference between the Left's nuts and the Right's is that the ones on the Left don't run the Party.

Anonymous "Broad strokes with a dirty brush, kind of like Tea Party members are racists?"
I, for one, have never said that "The Tea Party members are racists". I have said that there's a nasty Nativist undercurrent. I have said that there's a nasty anti-intellectual undercurrent. I have said that there's a nasty anti-reality undercurrent. I have said that there's a nasty racist undercurrent.
And, even if it's consistently not on a conscious level, there is.

 
At 8:02 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Modusoperandi, you said...

"This theory of theirs might explain why you're sleeping with my wife."

[LOL] Or, you with mine... ;-)

Anonymous, you ignorantly said...

"Maybe you should change 'no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, or religion' to 'no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, religion, or tendencies to blow themselves and innocent people up for their cause.'"

As I said previously in reply to Browns44, do you refer to American Muslim citizens? Here...in the United States?

 
At 8:31 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

MO & JG,

Ok, all American Muslims to a person love all non Muslims. If any of them knew of a plot to attack non Muslim Americans, they would blow the whistle on them. None of them would ever send money to any terrorists organizations, not a one.
Because they are American Muslims, they love Israel, and Jews. Because they are American Muslims they would never shoot and kill fellow American solders in their Army base's mess hall in Texas. Or murder a fellow American who was a recruiter in Arkansas.
Nope not these Muslims, they're American Muslims and they hate their fellow Muslims who do things like that. Why just the other day I saw protesters marching on the UN demanding the UN do something about those Muslim terrorists.
Yep, you liberal guys and gals are right and I'm totally wrong.
Gawd, I am so glad you opened my mind to the TRUTH!

 
At 8:52 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Browns, Like I said earlier, There is no reasoning with an unreasonable person.

Your prejudice, as well as the prejudice shared by the other ignoramuses, literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I guess this is why so many Universities, mine included, are requiring students to fulfill a certain number of Multi-Cultural credits. Thank-God for that.

 
At 12:51 AM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

I swear to Gawd there is no pleasing you Mary. Here I come over to your side and what do you do you claim I make you sick.
I mean you and MO and JG and others have opened my brain to the horrible shortcomings of conservatism and I change and I'm still not worthy.
Does your school have online Multi-Cultural courses? While I know I'll never come any where near to the cool sheik wisdom that you and other liberals who post here already have. But I must start somewhere.
Is there affirmative action for former conservatives like me that I can apply for that will increase my standing with you?
After all, it's not my fault I wasn't a liberal, it's society that caused me to have an unfair disadvantage. That's why I WAS a conservative. Now that I have seen the light of the left, I have to catch up, so I need help. Maybe a Federal Govt. grant or something.
Is it required of a liberal to read the Huffingon Post or would you suggest the Daily Kos?
Do I have to listen to Ed Schultz, he is dumber than a conservative. And his voice sucks big time.
I did read the book JG recommend by the former grower of HERBS Thom Hartmann, maybe now it will start to make sense.

Come people, reach out to me, give me a hand, I cant become a liberal all on my own!!

 
At 1:11 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

As usual, the political stuff is mostly noise to me - foundational philosophical beliefs are where the real meat is. The left does not hate "religion". The left (not just the left - most people in general, really) hates exclusive and absolute truth claims. To them, it is audacious and mean. Most would say that all points of view should be "tolerated" except those that would have the audacity to claim (and teach others to believe) a propositional truth. The problem is this post-modern belief system, itself, sets up a propositional truth construct. Exclusive truth claims are the big no-no. True Christianity, and its founder Jesus Christ, makes exclusive truth claims, so it rubs people the wrong way - always has -always will.

"Do you suppose that I came to bring peace on Earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division." - Luke 12:51

 
At 3:09 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Browns,
Does your school have online Multi-Cultural courses? I'm sure they do.

so I need help. Maybe a Federal Govt. grant or something. Can't help you there. I've never received a federal grant before, not even when my family was financially destitute did I qualify for one; I think they are a myth. Take out a loan. Interest rates are very low right now.

Is it required of a liberal to read the Huffingon Post or would you suggest the Daily Kos?
Do I have to listen to Ed Schultz
While I do read the HuffPost (not regularly though), it's definitely not required. What is the Daily Kos, and who in the f#$# is Ed Shultz? I listen to NPR for news and go to their website. I dont watch the news at ALL. I read. A lot. A ton. All the time. Books are good. Journalism usually pisses me off. I get Mental Floss Magazine and the Economist. Oh and I'm not an Atheist or Christian. I'm a Pantheist, and pretty damn spiritual.

Oh, and I eat super healthy...for the most part. I have little bits of meat every now and then. Oh and I have a car, but rarely drive it because I prefer public transport (the green choice).

There's your first lesson on becoming a liberal. Stereotypical enough? Hope it helps.

 
At 9:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian said:

Anonymous, you ignorantly said...

"Maybe you should change 'no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, or religion' to 'no matter their race, gender, sexual preference, religion, or tendencies to blow themselves and innocent people up for their cause.'"

As I said previously in reply to Browns44, do you refer to American Muslim citizens? Here...in the United States?


There are immigrants who have been living in the United States for years who are not US citizens. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were living in the United States. I think your head has hit a rock one too many times while on your boogie board!

 
At 10:47 AM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Dude, I'm on my way to becoming a liberal!!

 
At 11:35 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you said...

"There are immigrants who have been living in the United States for years who are not US citizens. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were living in the United States."

Of course there are, but that's not the topic of discussion as it was proposed. Browns44 inferred that all Muslims should be investigated, as a group, by the congress, because, as he noted, American Muslims "have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people" of other faiths. [Bold print my own, for emphasis.] That's simply not the case.

As usual, you, and your kind, attempt to divert the conversation when you feel you're backed into a corner. I'm not going to let you have that option. I'm going to make you face the fact, and that is you're stereotyping all American Muslims as being violent and having "tendencies to blow themselves and innocent people up for their cause." (Your direct quote.) It's a lie, you know it's a lie, and I'm not going to let you get away with it.

Until you, and Browns44, retract your inflammatory statements, and you know what they are, I'm going to continue to throw them back in your face and demand an explanation.

By the way, I never fall off my boogie board.

 
At 12:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ModusOperandi said:

"I, for one, have never said that "The Tea Party members are racists". I have said that there's a nasty Nativist undercurrent. I have said that there's a nasty anti-intellectual undercurrent. I have said that there's a nasty anti-reality undercurrent. I have said that there's a nasty racist undercurrent."

Geraldine Ferraro said:

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any color], he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

Bill Clinton said:

"A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee," the former president told the liberal lion from Massachusetts, according to the gossipy new campaign book, "Game Change."


ModusOperandi, were Geraldine's and Bill's comments racist or were they just comments with racist undercurrents? LOL, if you think you belong to the intellectual class.




Mary Mayhem said:

"This blog is about Ms. Gerry Ferraro, and I'm sure she's be pissed at us both for letting Sarah Palin get in the way. So STFU."

Mary that is trailor trash talk! To borrow from that intellectual ModusOperandi, I believe you have trailor trash undercurrents!

 
At 12:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tasting your own bullshit kind of sucks doesn't it Jefferson's Guardian!

 
At 12:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian said:

"Browns44 inferred that all Muslims should be investigated, as a group, by the congress, because, as he noted, American Muslims "have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people" of other faiths. [Bold print my own, for emphasis.] That's simply not the case."

Enlighten me on how you arrived at the above dramatized Joe McCarthy style conclusion about Browns44. Do you think maybe you were the one who arrived at this conclusion?

 
At 1:00 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you said...

"Tasting your own bullshit kind of sucks doesn't it Jefferson's Guardian!"

The only thing I taste, when I deal with people like you, is the sweetness of defeating you and your inclination toward ignorance and hate. It appears you're the one choking on your own vomit of lies, deception, and prejudice.

 
At 1:15 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, you amazingly said...

"Enlighten me on how you arrived at the above dramatized Joe McCarthy style conclusion about Browns44."

I've spelled it out for you as simply as I could. I provided quoted references, and I've even used bold print in order to help clarify any misunderstanding or ambiguity. Obviously, that's not sufficient.

Go back and reread the direct quotations from Browns44 (and yourself, for that matter). I didn't make anything up. I only provided the wording, and inferences, from him. If that doesn't do it for you, it appears you have a very serious comprehension liability and possibly shouldn't be visiting sites where intelligent adults converse and share ideas.

 
At 1:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian said:

"Browns44 inferred that all Muslims should be investigated, as a group, by the congress, because, as he noted, American Muslims "have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people" of other faiths. [Bold print my own, for emphasis.] That's simply not the case."

After rereading the above posts, Browns44 DID NOT SAY "American Muslims "have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people" of other faiths."

Jefferson's Guardian, you are full of shit!

 
At 3:10 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, please refer to Browns44's comment with a time-stamp of 5:10 PM (second paragraph), and his comment addressed to MO & JG, with a time-stamp of 8:31 PM.

If he wasn't inferring that American Muslims should be investigated by congress, please explain exactly what he was saying.

Better yet, Browns44, maybe you'd like to explain. Maybe you'd like a chance to redeem yourself and explain, exactly, who should be investigated.

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian inferred that Browns44 said something, when in fact Browns44 did not say what Jefferson's Guardian claims she/he had said.
Worse than being full of shit, Jefferson's Guardian is a lying liberal.

How's that "inclination toward ignorance and hate" taste Jefferson's Guardian? "It appears you're the one choking on your own vomit of lies, deception, and prejudice"!

Typical liberal, makes up by "inference" what another persons thoughts are, kind of like defining a "hate crime".

 
At 3:52 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

So, Anonymous, you've taken it upon yourself to let Tom's readership know what Browns44 wasn't saying (in addition to saying I'm wrong and calling me a liar, but that's not the issue here).

Would you please be so kind to attempt to tell me, and the other readers, what, exactly, Browns44 was saying?

I think we'd all be interested in knowing. I know I would.

 
At 3:57 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

I just got back from two days in Saratoga Springs, 150 miles up the New York State Thruway. Some of the comments added in my absence are just too danged amusing for words.

All I can say is: Thanks for the ammunition!

All the best,

Tom

 
At 4:02 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Oh, Anonymous, maybe you'd also like to share with Tom's readership, exactly what you meant by your comment that's time-stamped at 7:05 PM.

Please, tell me, exactly who you were referring to in that condemnatory statement regarding American Muslims.

 
At 5:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian,

IT IS A FACT THAT RADICAL MUSLIMS ARE REPEATEDLY BLOWING THEMSELVES AND INNOCENT PEOPLE UP FOR THEIR CAUSE OUTSIDE OF THE US!. Whether you choose to put on your Politically Correct sunglasses to filter this fact is your problem.

I have looked at Browns44 comment at 5:10 PM.

Is Browns44 comment at 5:10 PM stating this is happening in the US? DON'T YOU THINK WE WOULD BE HEARING ABOUT IT IN THE NEWS IF IT WERE TRUE?

I really do not care what Browns44 thinks of muslims.

All I am saying is that you have made the following statement:
"American Muslims "have large numbers of armed people attacking and killing people" of other faiths."
and have attributed it to Browns44. THIS IS A FALSE, RIDICULOUS, AND SLANDEROUS COMMENT!

You have one very active imagination Jefferson's Guardian!

Think again before making another ignorant comment like this when someone questions your bullshit "inferences":
"it appears you have a very serious comprehension liability and possibly shouldn't be visiting sites where intelligent adults converse and share ideas."

 
At 5:05 PM, Anonymous Browns said...

J.G. and all my fellow Liberals. progressives, lefties and what ever.
Sorry I couldn't read your post directed to me. I was busy searching the internet for any reports of American Muslims protesting or doing something about their brother Muslims in Afghanistan murdering 8 UN peace workers. So far I haven't found anything, but that doesn't mean American Muslims aren't thinking they wished their fellow Muslims hadn't acted so poorly.
I guess I should bring you all up to date on my conversion to liberalism from conservatism. First I must answer JG's plea for me to affirm what I meant when I posted something but still was a conservative.
I'm sorry to report but I haven't been a liberal long enough to read the minds of other people, much less my own, as of yet.
All I know is in the past when I was a conservative, I meant what I said, there was nothing to infer. But I can see as a new liberal I have a lot to learn about meaning what you say and saying what you mean. You don't always want to do that!
But there is good news to report! Several of the colleges/university's offer online Multi-Cultural courses. Also I no long stereotype people. There were good Nazis and there were bad Nazis, this is the first lesson I learned in that area.(Thanks Mary!)

Now I am learning how to explain what I am as I see my self.
I love to canoe in small streams and fish for Smallmouth Bass. But I always release what I catch. PETA has nothing on me.
I am a LEO!!!
I shower at least once a day and shave every day of the week.
My most recent all time favorite book is "The Art of Racing in the Rain". Unless you are a cat person, I recommend it highly.
I love the out doors including the prairies of the Midwest.
I have marched in a liberal protests 3 times way long time ago in the past. I was down for the cause back then, something I hope to do again real soon.

Now before I close this update, I need to know if these slogans are liberal approved.

Tax the rich until they are poor!

GOP = Nazis (the bad kind of Nazis)

Bring our troops home now!

If you want justice work for peace!

Unions are the only thing that will save America!

What do we want?
FREE STUFF
When do we want it?
NOW!

It's still GW Bush's fault!

Let me know what you think of my progress and I'm always ready for any tips, even from MO, my beloved brother from the north.

 
At 5:12 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 5:18 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@Browns, I think a college (or high school even) education would be the best thing for you, and not an online one. Oh and Karma can be a cruel, callous bitch. That's all I have to say to you.

 
At 5:20 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ anyadhominemous - SLANDEROUS COMMENT!

Really? That comment is going to DAMAGE Browns's reputation in his community; the anonymous Browns44 on a forward leaning blog?

There are intelligent people trying to converse here; please go back under your bridge.

 
At 5:33 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Browns44 "Come people, reach out to me, give me a hand, I cant become a liberal all on my own!!"
Start at Altemeyer's The Authoritarians. You'll be stunned to discover that you have some, um, problematic characteristics. That's the first liberal step to improving yourself. The second step is orgy. Liberal orgy ("Oh! Oh! Oh! Yes! Who's your Volvo? Who's your Volvo?!").

"So far I haven't found anything, but that doesn't mean American Muslims aren't thinking they wished their fellow Muslims hadn't acted so poorly."
Obviously. Because Muslims never criticize their own. You're lucky I'm not where my links are, mister!

"Let me know what you think of my progress and I'm always ready for any tips, even from MO, my beloved brother from the north."
Arugula.

Anonymous "Geraldine Ferraro said: "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman [of any color], he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.' Bill Clinton said: A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee,' the former president told the liberal lion from Massachusetts, according to the gossipy new campaign book, 'Game Change.' ModusOperandi, were Geraldine's and Bill's comments racist or were they just comments with racist undercurrents?'
1. "Geraldine Ferraro said "And if he was a woman [of any color]..." (emphasis mine). So...do you think she was anything other than Partisan for her preferred nomination, or what?
2a. "Bill Clinton reportedly said..."
2b. Probably. A little. Bubba is from Arkansas. Alternately, he's saying the Obama hadn't paid his proverbial dues yet.

"LOL, if you think you belong to the intellectual class."
Hah! "Intellectual class". I ate paste. And not just in elementary school!

Anonymous "Typical liberal, makes up by 'inference' what another persons thoughts are, kind of like defining a 'hate crime'."
Typical conservative, crassly generalizing about an entire group, kind of like me being terribly ironic.

 
At 7:30 PM, Anonymous Bernie Sanders VT said...

Browns,

Its good to see you have jumped ship and joined our side. I never thought it would have happened. I am going to email Howard Dean of the good news!

By hanging out on Tom Ds "The Rant", it looks like you finally progressed to a foward thinking person! What I like the most about "The Rant", is the unbiased truth, there is no bullshit!

All the best Browns!

Bernie

 
At 8:42 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Thanks Senator Sanders, thanks a lot!

Since I am new in this forward leaning, progressive way of thinking, is this an organization I should look into joining, or do you think it's too soon?

It's the Left Wing Institute for Civil Discourse, their website is

http://.moonbattracker.com/wordpress

Let me know if you think this is over my head.

 
At 9:51 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@Browns44, ....well obviously HTML is over your head, so who knows what else is?....

 
At 10:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So is copy and past over your head mm?

 
At 12:49 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Anonyshit

You said, Anonymous said...
So is copy and past over your head mm?

10:56 PM


No, but spelling, grammar and typing are obviously over yours.

 
At 12:51 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Don't get mad at me; I'm just copying and past - ing.

 
At 4:31 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous (aka Archie Bunker?), you said...

"I really do not care what Browns44 thinks of muslims."

Is that why you've been vehemently defending his hateful remarks? [LOL]

By the way, Browns44, would you care to answer my questions (from above) and defend yourself?

 
At 6:15 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Modusoperandi "Obviously. Because Muslims never criticize their own. You're lucky I'm not where my links are, mister!"
Don't fret. I'll help you out, stranger:
Muslims do speak out against violence and terrorism.

 
At 10:02 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....They won the battle, but they haven't won the war....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out

 
At 11:25 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, please sit down and stop your annoying cheerleading. Thank you.

By the way, you've been pretty silent the last few days. What do you think of Browns44's idea that American Muslims should be singled out for investigation by congress? Do you think that's right?

 
At 11:51 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
I say go where there evidence takes you. If the vast majority of people conducting terrorism were colored green, I'd say we need to investigate the nature of green people. I'm not cheerleading, you didnt get the joke.

I'm bored of this conversation, so I haven't submitted my two cents lately.

 
At 12:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian inferred that Browns44 said something, when in fact Browns44 did not say what Jefferson's Guardian claims she/he had said.
Worse than being full of shit, Jefferson's Guardian is a lying liberal.

How's that "inclination toward ignorance and hate" taste Jefferson's Guardian? "It appears you're the one choking on your own vomit of lies, deception, and prejudice"!

Typical liberal, makes up by "inference" what another persons thoughts are, kind of like defining a "hate crime".

 
At 12:40 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"If the vast majority of people conducting terrorism were colored green, I'd say we need to investigate the nature of green people."

So, by your own logic, if the vast majority of people threatening the lives of personnel who work at medical facilities that perform legal abortions are Christian, should we "investigate the nature of" Christians?

 
At 12:50 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous, the saddest and most pathetic thing about you is your total lack of originality and imagination.

First, you copy-and-paste my words, throw them back at me, and think I'm going to be offended? Then, you send the same message twice!

C'mon, is that the best you can do?

 
At 1:02 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
How many abortionists have been murdered or physically harmed?

The abortionists have taken out about 13 million black babies.

First, the anti abortion violence you speak of is almost nonexistent, and the group being "harmed" in your example is committing violence daily.

But, if you want to investigate the Christians, knock yourself out. You can start with me, because I am guilty of no such wrong.

 
At 1:08 PM, Anonymous Dan Rather said...

Jefferson's Guardian,

We are kindred spirits! You almost got away with fabricating a story about Browns, just like I almost got away with fabricating a story about dubya's military service! For us the means justify the ends according to our patron saint Saul Alinsky!

It looks like Anonymous (aka Archie Bunker) really put you in your place by exposing your fabrication. It was funny to watch you try to get out of the hole you dug! The more you posted, the deeper the hole got! Thanks for the laughs JG!

Tom D says he was away for a couple of days...hmmmmmm.

 
At 1:35 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Dan Rather (aka Anonymous and Archie Bunker), you said...

"It looks like Anonymous (aka Archie Bunker) really put you in your place by exposing your fabrication."

Fabrication? It's not a fabrication when Browns44's words are clearly there (and yours also, I might add).

But, let's wait and hear Browns44's explanation. I'm sure he has one.

And, by the way, I was...I mean, Tom was away for a few days. He said it himself.

 
At 2:35 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"How many abortionists have been murdered or physically harmed?"

If it has only been one, it has been one too many.

"The abortionists have taken out about 13 million black babies."

I'm not sure of the exact number, but if you say so I'll go along with it. And, yes, each mother chose to have the abortion legally. But, the murder of doctors is illegal, the last time I looked.

By the way, of the millions who haven't been aborted, but the mother chose life instead, have you adopted any? Just curious.

"First, the anti abortion violence you speak of is almost nonexistent, and the group being 'harmed' in your example is committing violence daily."

The anti-abortion violence may be minuscule in the scheme of things, but it exists nonetheless. In your mind, they may be committing violence on a daily basis, but in each mother's mind they apparently are not. Otherwise, as the free market dictates, each individual mother who thought it was wrong would not be having the procedure done. (You are a believer in capitalism and the free market, aren't you?)

But, if you want to investigate the Christians, knock yourself out. You can start with me, because I am guilty of no such wrong.

I don't think Christians should be investigated for anything (although, many times, I question their rationality and believe they should keep their religion to themselves and out of my government), but I'm not the one calling for an investigation of a group of people based purely upon their religious beliefs; Browns44 and Anonymous are.

But, you never really answered my question: Should all Christian groups be investigated by Congress due to the illegal acts of homocide commited by a Christian minority?

I'm waiting for your answer...

 
At 3:07 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
If one abortionist has been picketed, you can begin your Christian hearings with me.

Your right, 13million and counting. I have friends who have adopted. It makes the alternative for those kids incomprehensible.

Keeping looking for stupid analogies to provide cover for the systemic violence in a significan portion of the mooselem community.

 
At 3:37 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ boltok
13 million you say? You better back that claim up.

 
At 3:38 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, your non-answer is all the answer I need.

I thought so.

Thank you...

 
At 4:14 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MM
I was done with JG today, then you had to question me. I always have support waiting for those who question me.

From my spirtual leader:
Abortion-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh4PVX7ZYbg

Mooselems-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGOlc2ZM4cU&feature=fvwrel

_______________________________

Abortion Count
http://www.blackgenocide.org/home.html

http://www.toomanyaborted.com/?page_id=644

http://www.righttolifeofnortheastohio.com/neortl/sites/default/files/Abortion%27s%20Impact%20on%20the%20AfricanAmerican%20Community.pdf

 
At 5:31 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

JG,
I have answered you already, see my post of 5:05 p.m.

 
At 5:31 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Boltok you have got give kidding me. Every source you listed is completely and unquestionably, without a doubt, subjective.

 
At 5:49 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MM
With your self professed analytical mind and what I assume are considerable powers of induction, how many black [babies, fetuses, cell masses, or whatever you want to call them] failed to see the light of day because of elective abortion. How far off could these number possibly be? Give me a range, low to high count.

You can play around with some of the numbers on the attached link, page 6.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/US-Abortion-Patients.pdf

 
At 6:55 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"I was done with JG today, then you [referring to Mary Mayhem] had to question me. I always have support waiting for those who question me."

You didn't have any support when I questioned you about some very easy issues. As a matter of fact, you refused to answer my inquiries at all. Gee, Boltok, why is that? ;-)

 
At 7:06 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Boltok, Where in the hell do you get 13 million? The only info in your report is percentages for two different years (2000, 2008), and remarkably, the highest percentage belongs to WHITE women (both years). Also, 65% of the total reported abortions were received by people who reported themselves as Christian. Wait, don't tell me that you just took the percentage from one year and used it to calculate the amount of ALL black abortions out of the supposed X amount reported since 1973, because that would be ridiculously inaccurate (and WRONG), and someone who claims to have a Math degree would definitely know that. I mean how many statistics classes does one have to take to obtain a Math degree. I've only taken one, and even I know how ludicrously inaccurate that would be. Also, the report you posted even reports on how inaccurate it is, states the reason for these inaccuracies, and also states the reasons why all abortions statistics are highly inaccurate.

 
At 7:18 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Boltok, I DID find this site in my search though...shitskins

 
At 7:38 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Boltok, Did you even factor in the ratio of white women to black women in our country? For every year? I know you cannot back up your claims because medical records are private, not ever state is required to report statistics, and demographics are only voluntarily reported, but I like seeing you try.

 
At 8:46 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MM
Guttmacher is a Planned Parenthood Organization.
Since ’73, around 1.5 million abortions per year in the US. Let’s use 1.25 million aborts per year as a guess/estimate of elective type abortions, trying to be conservative here.
In the Guttmacher Report, Non white non Hispanics received about 30% of total abortions even thought that group represents 14% of population. Let’s call these folk black people. Let's also assume the US had a black population since 1973 and those black people received abortions in roughly the same proportion over the years.

39 years times 1.25 million is 48.75 million. We will call this the total number of elective abortions since ’73.
Now, multiply 48.75 by .3 (the black’s share) = 14.625 million.

So, round down by 10%, 13 million is a conservative estimate of the number of prospective black people that met their fate at the end of a suction tube.

If your argument holds true, then the US is aborting blacks with greater efficiency in recent years.

There must be some serious grade inflation in the Colorado University system.

 
At 8:53 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
I have a support for you. His name is Jacque.

 
At 9:20 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"I have a support for you. His name is Jacque."

Jacque? Oh, do you mean Jacques Cousteau? ;-)

(Oh, Jesus, I know I'm going to hate myself for asking...)

 
At 9:22 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Boltok, just as I suspected. 30% of abortions for black women for what year? 73-2011 is a LOT of years. What was the black abortion % for 73-88? Yeah you don't have a clue, because it wasn't reported!!! As I have shown, many agencies do not report race! So how in the hell can you project 13 million off of 1 or even 2 years worth of approximate % info? You can't. Keep digging yourself into a hole. This is fun!

 
At 9:35 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Boltok, you also fail to report or calculate that abortion rates were on the rise until 1990, when they peaked, and have been steadily declining since. Only around 860,000 abortions were reported and calculated in 1999 and 2000; 1.5 million per/year is a very generous estimate, especially considering the numbers actually reported and taking into account various inaccuracies, but when the Guttmacher report only reports 30 years of data, showing around 1.5 million abortions per year reported for 15 of those years, and the other 15 years showing less than 1.5 million per year, some years significantly less, as low as 744,600, how in the hell can the average amount be 1.5 million per year? You tell me.

 
At 11:23 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

What totally boggles my mind is the fact that even though I suspected your methodology in calculating the figure 13 million, posted it, and made fun of how grossly inaccurate it would be, you (still) very proudly confirmed that it was indeed your method, and publicly I might add, but because you are so arrogant, you believe that by repeating an untruth over and over again, it will ultimately become the truth. How very Orwellian inner party of you. Also, you even go as far as to question my intellect. You conservatives have a real problem, especially when words like "progressive" or "multi-cultural" develop a negative connotation, and you try to use my grades, education, and past work experience (all of which have been more than adequate) as a personal attack. You might as well say, "Oh yeah Mary...well at least I'm not pretty like you! That's stupid!" because that's about the level of ad nauseam we are currently dealing with.

 
At 12:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MM,

So what in your way of thinking, would be an acceptable number of black abortions?

 
At 12:34 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Anonymous, Why are you making it a racial issue? I never said any "black" abortions were
'acceptable;" however, they are legal, sometimes necessary, and I will defend them until otherwise, because I believe in privacy. No abortions are "acceptable," they are a symptom of a larger problem that must be addressed, but republicans fail to face their own incongruous policies. That's another debate.

I am simply questioning a statistic that seems to be loosely thrown around the anti-choice community all too often, and like I predicted, there is no proof. No one wants to show how they calculated this amount (13million), unless they have failed to grasp basic math (as seen above), because they know it is false.

I knew this number would be impossible to calculate before I questioned it, because of the lack of info from '73-'88, but I wanted to demonstrate the flawed logic that we currently observe spewing from the right this day and age. If you repeat a myth or lie enough times, it becomes the truth, and in doing so I even uncovered more discrepancies with the statistical information provided in these reports.

Your attempt to turn this around on me is foolish, but obviously, you could care less; pretty much everything you post is foolish.

 
At 8:20 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MM

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html

How far off can I be?

I like the previous question. Let's say I am off on the 13 million number, what would be a good number for you?

JG
No, its just Jacque, he goes by one name.

 
At 9:22 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Okay, since we’re on the topic of flawed logic, the pro-abortion crowd is rife with it – well, that and deceit – the two tend to go hand in hand. At the forefront of the deceit and flawed logic is their insistence upon labeling the issue as “choice”. What a nice term and what an empty and meaningless term. “Choice” is involved in ANY volitional act by a rational being. Anything you do involves choice. That is not the issue. The issue is a moral issue – is it wrong or not? And, interestingly, the pro-abortion crowd is forwarding a moral code no less than the pro-life crowd. That little tidbit gets left out of the equation. The pro-life crowd is regularly accused of trying to impress its morality upon the rest, which we unapologetically are. But, no less than has already been impressed upon us. And, why does it matter since we can just abstain you ask? - because it involves the killing of unborn babies. You folks have no valid argument and you know it – that’s why you regularly grasp as illogical straws. Such as asking Boltok whether he has adopted. This is beside the point – has no impact on whether abortion is wrong.

Notwithstanding the diversionary rhetoric of JG and MM, Boltok is correct in his assertion that black babies have been victims of an inordinate percentage of the abortions performed in America. Why that is, is debatable. MM, why you would care is beyond me. Abortion, after all, is no big deal, so what does it matter if 130 million have been aborted? And, though I personally believe pantheism to be nonsense, it would seem incongruent to me for an avowed pantheist to be so callous towards the creation of “nature”. Very bad karma.

 
At 1:07 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Harley A - You said it yourself,

Fetuses are not born.

They return to the earth before they were ever born.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I do NOT believe life begins until the fetus is viable on its own. Even so, there are still reasons beyond a woman's control to abort a fetus past the point of viability. It's private; between her practicer and her.

The point is, it's not the government choice. Also, as I have already stated, this is a symptom of a larger problem. There is not enough access to reproductive info and measures. The republicans love to vilify sexual intercourse, pushing their Christian agenda on the rest of the populous. We are entitled to freedom from that religion, and it is not illegal to have sex. The fact is, people will have sex, are having sex, are having sex outside of marriage, are being raped, sex sex sex sex. It's not going to stop ever, so this argument will forever persist. The only solution is to increase sexual education and allow more access to birth control measures. Only by embracing increased sexual awareness will the amount of unwanted pregnancies decline, leading to a decline in terminated pregnancies.

I think guns are morally wrong. Other people, obviously, do not. I won't even let my child have a water gun, but I still support the right to bear arms. I will just refrain from using a gun. I'm sure there are many things I find a moral conflict with, that other people believe is normal behavior.

Now, as for using my spirituality against me, you obviously no nothing of Pantheism. We do not in some moral code, etched in stone, was passed to us from a supreme being. We embrace the concept that the universe and nature created us, and because of this, we are equals. Man is not superior to nature. We also embrace science fully. Humans develop their own set of moral standards deep within the conscience. You are left on your own to make decisions of morality, because you have free-will, and this is your only mind/conscience life. When you die, you live on in the memories of others, and your atoms break down and become part of the planet. How can a fetus live on in memories? It can't, but it does return to the earth. There is absolutely NO stance on abortion in the Pantheist community. So for you to try and make that connection is totally grasping at straws. I suggest you read a little bit further into Pan before criticizing others. We do not believe in Karma. I do practice a little Taoism, and Zen Buddhism, which is where my belief in Karma (somewhat, I don't fully embrace Karma at all) comes from. Just like Buddhism, Pantheism is not a religion, it's a spiritual way of life. I think Christianity, with it's Magic Jesus is bullshit.

Lastly, you have successfully diverted the topic. I was only trying to prove that conservatives throw numbers around to try and push their morality on others. There was NO, none, absolutely NO basis for the number 13 million, yet it is on several anti-choice websites, proving my suspicion that it was repeated enough times to become the (false) truth in conservative minds. There's is not enough critical thinking in the conservative party. No one seems to question ANYTHING! And that is sad. People would rather believe a CHAIN EMAIL than actual verified facts.

 
At 1:09 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

*know

 
At 2:28 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MM
No basis whatsoever for 13 million. You are a fool.

If viability is your litmus test, upto what term can you abort. Up to the last minute.

Go to my top level number, have there been appprox 50 million abortions since '73?

I thought somewhere in your 4.0 education you would have learned something about inferential statistics.

 
At 3:46 PM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

Mary Mayhem, I've always preferred Magic Pantheism myself.

 
At 10:04 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

mmm crepes.

 
At 10:07 PM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

@ Boltok, inferential statistics with the use of only 2 values, 2000 and 2005, but over the course of 73-2008? I don't think so.

Your degree(s) clearly came from a Cracker Jack box.

 
At 9:54 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Mary, where to start…

First, the viability issue is perhaps one of the weakest arguments for abortion. A 6 month old baby is still not viable apart from the mother’s care. Left on its own, it dies. In fact, an unborn baby is harder to kill than a 6 month old. With the 6 month old, you need only do nothing. With the unborn baby, you must perform unnatural and cruel procedures to terminate its life.

And, what is diversionary is to continue to assert that it’s “between the woman and her doctor”. No, actually, it isn’t. There is a third person involved, who cannot defend his/her position – much like a 6 month old cannot defend his/hers.

But, feel free to keep lobbing arguments, these things refute themselves, and I’m happy to expose people to the truth.

 
At 11:37 AM, Blogger Mary Mayhem said...

Harley- Exactly how many times have you been pregnant and given birth?

 
At 1:56 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Exactly the same number of times you have put forth a valid argument for abortion on demand.

?

 

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