Buckle Down, Wisconsin!
Buckle down, Wisconsin, buckle downYou can win, Wisconsin, if you knuckle down!
And so was born the Madison Revolution....
I was going to call this little ditty "Is Wisconsin Our Egypt?" but I was beaten to the punch by the lovably subversive website, AlterNet. I hate when that happens.
I would also hate to be Wisconsin governor Scott Walker today. One of the most annoying developments of recent years is how Republican lawmakers have started to use people whose incomes are paid by the public as scapegoats for all that is wrong with America. This is a despicable effort to divert our attention from the tsunami of American jobs that have gone overseas because of the idiotic actions of conservative politicians of both parties. It's all the fault of the public workers - THESE GODDAMNED BUREAUCRATS! - with their cushy jobs and their sweet pensions. It would be political suicide to demagogue police and firefighters, so they attack the less visible and more vulnerable ones: teachers, government workers, highway departments, tax collectors - especially tax collectors. They tell us that this country is going to hell in a hand basket because these people are little more than paid parasites. My goodness!
Back in the day, the political extremists used African Americans as scapegoats. Today it is the moderately paid people who work for the public. The more things change, the more they stay the same. To their credit they're a tad more subtle about their contempt for black people these days. That's progress....I guess.
The
good people of the state of Wisconsin are taking this crisis lying down - quite literally! Scores of them camped out in the rotunda of the state capital last night; so determined are they to read their elected representatives the riot act. I learned that something was brewing days before the main stream media caught onto the story. On February 13, I received an e-mail from the very youngest of my many cousins - Amy Clements. That is her in the photo on the left. Said she:"Hey cousin Tom. I'm looking for advice from the wise: Scott Walker is crazy. Advice?! What would you do if you were me, living in the state capitol? There's a rally at his mansion today. I'll start there. Perhaps you have other ideas?.. :) xo"
You need no ideas or advice from me, Cousin. You and your friends have awakened the nation! How the heck do you do that?
Amy and her compatriots are right there in the thick of things, standing up for America's core principals that were articulated by Abraham Lincoln on the blood-drenched fields of Gettysburg in 1863: "....government of the people; by the people, for the people." Governor Walker would be wise to avoid pissing off Cousin Amy any further than he already has. Heaven help the poor, clueless bastard if he is forced to spar with her. Seriously.
Could this be the beginning of a revolution that might spread nationwide? I'm hopeful. Unlike the clueless tea party types, the good people of the state of Wisconsin realize that the blame for the problem lies not with those naughty, bleeding heart Liberals, but with the plutocrats and greed heads who long ago hijacked not only our government, but both political parties - including the one that Lincoln helped found in 1856. Bob Dylan once said, "A hard rain's gonna fall." Indeed. I hope you have an umbrella at the ready. The shit storm has arrived.
What I'm curious about is how dah man is going tp try to suppress this revolt before it spreads - and it will spread. Count on it. Sooner or later he will have to understand that (again, to quote Dylan) "the times, they are a'changin'" They had better not even try to stand in the way of the mass sense of outrage and the desire of millions for a remedy to the economic injustices they have been forced to live with for decades. They might as well try to keep the sun from setting in the west this evening. It would be a lot easier.
Dick Gregor
y once made a beautiful analogy comparing revolution to a coffee pot. The pot makes a whistling noise to warn us that it is boiling. (Boiling mad, in this case). If an attempt is made to ignore that noise by plugging up the hole, sooner or later that coffee pot is going to explode - burning everyone in the room. Can you hear that whistling noise, Governor Walker? That's the people of your state sending you a little message. You would be smart to listen to them. You would also be wise to pick up a couple Dick Gregory albums. The gem of wisdom paraphrased above is from the LP "Dick Gregory at Kent State". You can probably find it on ebay.In the city's melted furnace, unexpectedly we watched
With faces hidden as the walls were tightening
As the echo of the wedding bells before the blowing rain
Dissolved into the bells of the lightning
Tolling for the rebel, tolling for the rake
Tolling for the luckless, the abandoned and forsaked
Tolling for the outcast, burning constantly at stake
As we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.
-Bob Dylan
Honestly, you can't go wrong with Uncle Bobby. You really can't! That was from the song "Chimes of Freedom". Might I suggest to the workers of Wisconsin that they use it as their anthem? Springsteen once did a great, kick-ass cover of it. Just a thought.
If present trends continue, the second decade of the twenty-first century promises to be one of positive change for people all over the world. As the call for revolution in Egypt seems to be spreading throughout the Arab world, so, too, should the Madison Revolution be a cry to the American people to wake up and demand what is rightfully theirs. How fitting that this new American revolution was born in a city named for one of the framers of the Constitution.
Now is the time to brush up on our Gandhi and our Dr. King. We have the power to turn this country around, and we can do it non-violently. It happened in India in the 1940s and again in this country in the 1960s. Let's make it happen again.
Wish I could be there with you, Amy! You make us all proud to call you family. Love ya!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
SUGGESTED READING:
Letter fr
om a Birmingham Jailby Martin Luther King, Jr.
Here's a link to read it in its entirety:
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
It really is a humdinger.
Here's a link to Amy Clements' Facebook page. You can view the video she shot on the floor of the rotunda in Madison:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=492966527451&comments#!/video/video.php?v=492966527451&comments
posted by Tom Degan @ 12:09 PM
120 comments
120 Comments:
Tom, as I mentioned in Anna's blog yesterday, bless the public workers of Wisconsin! I wish them well and much success, and also hope their protests carry from state-to-state, à la the Middle Eastern revolutionary spirit. It's time for the American working people to stand up and be counted. The time to be visible is now!
As far as Ass-onymous, and his first two maniacal comments, is he for real? What a crackpot! Gee, Tom, you're certainly not particular about the company you keep. ;-)
Yes Tom I mean these teachers, they've got a lot of nerve...I mean they're just Glorified Babysitters...I mean look at Craig's list...and hmmm, well I pay my sitter about 10-12 bucks an hour to watch my kid, and well school is what? from about 8 to 3 everyday....and from what...we'll say August to May...plus you have to pay an additional charge per kid...I'll be generous and drop that down to $2 bucks though, when in reality its usually half price....hmmm..there's roughly 20 kids in a classroom, also a generous estimate....so thats 336 dollars a day for a 7 hour work day, $1680 a week for a 5 day work week, $6720 a month, $60,480 (this is what they should be making at least??!! shocking!!) for a 9 month school year, because they dont really work half the month of December or January. I know most teachers are elitist "liberals" who are too busy to do things like teach summer school, or hold parent teacher conferences in hours not calculated here. Maybe grade papers, make lesson plans, or tutor. HOW DARE THEY GET UPSET for making less than a girl with acne who text messages on her phone about a girl named Justin Beiber all night? How dare these "liberal" teachers choose an occupation where they try to do something communist like educate someone. These damn socialist robbers. Put them all in prison for robbing the government. according to BLS.gov (which I find to be very GENEROUS) avg salary for an experience teacher: 47k. Damn criminals. CUT IT BACK. It should only be 11k at the very most.
Yeah, anonymous is right; let's fire all of the teachers and then the entire country can be as ignorant as he (or she) is. But, Anonymous, if you want to bust unions why are you making an exception for cops and firemen? I mean, let's get real; let's get rid of all of them.
Tom,whatever happened to the will of the people? We both know that back in the day Democrats were the party of the man on the street. Well the man & woman on the street voted for this current form of Government in Wis. I don't agree with the Governors actions and/or thought process but he was elected by the majority and majority rules. Its up to the majority to change this at the ballot box, after all this is still America, at least for the time being. I have always found it a bit disingenuis that a majority elects a person or a party and then at least some of them do a 180 and come out against that person or party once they do what they said they were going to do. Want a glaring example just look at the President. He told us what he was going to do and for the first time in recent memory we have a President who actually did what he said he would and his numbers sank quicker than the stock market. Human nature is indeed a funny thing.
tom, why are you so angry about everything? this is a serious question
Anonymous, I'm not angry about everything. Just the things that matter. Aren't you?
This is a serious answer.
Cheerio! Pip! Pip!
Tom, I think one thing from the AlterNet article bears quoting when a shop steward from AFSCME Local 171 said:
"I've never seen anything like it. It wasn't just teachers and union members from the University of Wisconsin (UW), where I work. There were Steelworkers, Teamsters, Pipefitters, building trades unions and more--unions I've never seen at a rally in 10 years," he said. "The most amazing thing is when the firefighters came in a delegation. Along with police, Walker has exempted firefighters from the legislation, but they came with signs that said, 'Firefighters for workers' rights.' "
This could indeed by America's Egypt moment.
Where were all these other unions when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and started this anti-labor bullshit ?? THAT was the time to show what solidarity can accomplish !! Now we have a lot of catching up to do. To answer Tom's question of how " da man " is going to react to protesters....they will label the protesters " terrorists " and use the Patriot Act powers to quash opposition. Or just straight up shoot us like Kent State. These are not ethical people we are talking about here. Their ends always justify their means and life is very cheap to them.
After the cuts in education Gov. Hickenlooper, someone I had the utmost confidence in when I voted, proposed on Tuesday, teachers are appalled, and the word on the streets this afternoon was that a similar gathering to that of Wisconsin, maybe not as large scale, could be on the horizon. I could be talking out my ass though; I also just spoke with a crackhead who admittedly asked for money to get a "fix," someone who tried to sell me their medical marijuana, and someone who tried to sell me a pager out of their car on these very same streets. I love my city/state (but mostly Denver/Vail/Breckenridge), and we do have the capability of organizing one hell of a massive yet peaceful (for the most part) protest if need be.
@Ellis D., Esq. -- Yep. Something like this will probably happen. Not like Kent State, but with more fear mongering. They have Fox News now and don't even have to resort to Kent State like methods. It's as simple as just a little more fear mongering from a few pundits on their omnipotent news channel and that's what's terrifying.
The way democrats buckle down is they board the short school bus and flee to an adjacent state. The author and most who comment on this blog must be familiar with the short bus.
Cuomo, governor of NY, is starting to attack NY's out of control budget and his poll numbers are soaring. He is more like Paladino than a typical democrat. The public it tired of being treated like Lara Logan by the public unions.
Boltok, read beyond the fact that the Democrats have left the state, thus denying Walker a vote. Walker's poll numbers are not soaring and more and more protestors are flooding the capitol.
Hello Tom -
Good job, keep it up. Love your blog. But what's with the all-bold text lately? Making my eyes dizzy.
David
Anon Too
How do you interpret the size of Tea Party gatherings?
Hi, David.
I have changed the font with mixed results. I'll bring it back to the old style on the next piece. Thank you for the input. Much obliged!
All the best,
Tom
The Los Angeles Unified School District spends more than $12,000 per child and has a 40% graduation rate. Los Angeles Charter schools spend $6,500 per child and have an 80% graduation rate.
No doubt NY and CA have the worst school systems!
Time to get government and unions out of our schools!
"Los Angeles Charter schools spend $6,500 per child and have an 80% graduation rate."
Of course they do. Are we to believe that they're not cooking the results just to make a case for their existence? I was born very early in the morning - but it wasn't this morning.
By the way - what the heck does this silly argument of yours have to do with what is transpiring in Wisconsin? Just curious.
All the best nonetheless,
Tom
If the protesters flooding Madison WI are members of a government union, then who is doing the work they claim we can not do with out while they are gone?
Are they getting paid while not doing their jobs? How much?
Just wondering.
Good for your cousin. I wish her and all the other hard working union members all the luck in the world. They lift my spirits and give me the first ray of hope I've had in a very long time. If I were younger I'd thumb my way up there to offer support. Contrast this to having my way paid by the fat cats.
Hopefully they will inspire others across this land of ours to get active and to protest against the corporate takeover.
One of the most annoying developments of recent years is how Republican lawmakers have started to use people whose incomes are payed by the public as scape goats for all that is wrong with America.
As public employees themselves, I assume the Republicans are doing it for the irony.
…
Also, pah! He has to do it. They're running a terrible deficit! (despite the fact that they are both a considerable amount of the budget and they're rising faster than anything else), because they've poisoned the well so badly that any talk of cost controls, Single Payer, and the like will be taken by their own Base as "killing grandma".
And do you think they'd go after Wall Street? Those are the Producers. Public Sector workers are the Parasites. That's why it's okay to take from the latter (and from the rest of us) and give to the former, because the former earned that $700,000,000,000 we handed to them in no-strings-attached, no-interest loans! I mean, if they crashed the economy in a combination of greed, incompetence and systemic fraud when they were working hard, just imagine how much worse things would be if they went Galt!
Ellis D., Esq. "Where were all these other unions when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and started this anti-labor bullshit ??"
There were, by "Canadian, French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese ATCs". A googling fails to find sympathy strikes in the US, though.
Browns44 "If the protesters flooding Madison WI are members of a government union, then who is doing the work they claim we can not do with out while they are gone?"
If a bad faith question falls in the forest, does it make a sound?
Ok, enough of the rhetoric. How much should teachers in Wisconsin make? Why is everyone keeping me in suspense?
Sorry, Mary Mayhem, I see you did at least forward a figure of $60K. Nevermind. Now I know. Thanks.
UW Madison is also the home of the universe renowned sociology department that specializes in social movements, unions and collective action. nothing like a demonstration with the pros who also know all the little mom and pop sandwich shops that will deliver. this could be a long one, hopefully and knock the wax out of the ears of those duly elected to represent the people of wisconsin.
glad the dems legislators are safe in another state so the cops can't come and haul them back into session. think the peeps have had enough. back off the unions!
also, columbus ohio had a little to-do at the state legislature. info has been almost blacked out.
prefer springsteen's version Tom, and you're right uncle Bob has the theme.
hopefully this dissent will spread to all 50 states fast. the tipping point has been reached.
stillellie, the open id won't work right tonight.
These unions should be banned. They are adverse to the original intent and that is simply to educate children. For instance, where do these teachers have the right to take other people’s children, who were missing school because of a strike, to protests?
The greedy unions hide under the mantra, "It's for the children. That is nonsense. It has been about 1st: filling union and political coffers, 2nd lining up voting blocks for democrats, 3rd teacher compensation and 4th children.
In my town, not long ago, teachers were working without a contract. They built billboards next to the school entrance so the kids would see these signs every day coming to school. There hope, of course, is that the kids would influence parents. The difference now is that economically challenged, some who have lost their homes or can’t pay exorbitant property taxes, are supposed to feel sorry that teachers and administrators don’t have long term contracts at high pay with all benefits paid. In my state the benefits alone are estimated at over 20K per year.
If these people don’t like their jobs and the pay that goes with it they can quit and do something else. It’s a free country. If these people are so VALUABLE, let them prove it by quitting and making more elsewhere.
Many of these teachers are getting As on their report cards.
And for the really retarded, look at the number of teachers in NYC rubber rooms. MO, what kind of stupid bullshit can you come up with to justify that.
With over 2 million Wisconsinites who will not ever trust anything Scott Walker says or does, he is essentially finished as governor. All he has left is brute force, and knowing him he might very well try that. But the police and firefighters have public unions of their own. Are they going to believe Scott Walker when he says he isn't going to destroy their unions later?
Thank you Gov Scott Walker for standing up to the Wisconsin Democrats who probably cannot balance their personal check books never the mind the Wisconsin state budget!
Power to the Tea Party!
Yes, "Uncle Bobby" was, is and always will be an inspiration.
So was, is and always will be, for some of us, W.H. Auden.
Last verses from his "1 September 1939"
All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.
Defenseless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.
Go get 'em Madison!!!
I hope Tom is right and other states follow suit. I'm not holding my breath - but hoping anyway.
"Where the Leaders Are" Peggy Noonan
Governor Christie spoke of making change in Jersey.
Pensions and benefits on the state level, he said, are the equivalent of federal entitlements. They have powerful, “vocal” constituencies. He introduced pension and benefit reforms on a Tuesday in September, and that Friday he went to the state firefighters convention in Wildwood. It was 2 p.m., and “I think you know what they had for lunch.” Mr. Christie had proposed raising their retirement age, eliminating the cost-of-living adjustment, increasing employee pension contributions, and rolling back a 9% pay increase approved years before “by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature.”
As Mr. Chrisie recounted it: “You can imagine how that was received by 7,500 firefighters. As I walked into the room and was introduced. I was booed lustily. I made my way up to the stage, they booed some more. . . . So I said, ‘Come on, you can do better than that,’ and they did!”
He crumpled up his prepared remarks and threw them on the floor. He told them, “Here’s the deal: I understand you’re angry, and I understand you’re frustrated, and I understand you feel deceived and betrayed.” And, he said, they were right: “For 20 years, governors (Democrats) have come into this room and lied to you, promised you benefits that they had no way of paying for, making promises they knew they couldn’t keep, and just hoping that they wouldn’t be the man or woman left holding the bag. I understand why you feel angry and betrayed and deceived by those people. Here’s what I don’t understand. Why are you booing the first guy who came in here and told you the truth?”
To Mary Mayhem:
But according to the latest Bureau of Labor Statistics report -- a new one is due next month -- state and local government employees, all told, are already making approximately $12 more per hour than private workers. Last year, a USA Today analysis found that federal employees' average compensation had grown to be more than double what their private-sector counterparts were making. Public service, indeed.
As I peruse one of the Wisconsin state workers pension fund holdings that funds a better-than-average set of insurance and retirement benefits…
Exxon Mobil – 8 million shares
General Electric – 14 million shares
Halliburton – 1.4 million shares
Wal-Mart – 3 million shares
JP Morgan – 6 million shares
Lloyd’s Bank – 24 million shares
Get this…
Phillip Morris – 2.5 million shares
Not only do we directly fund these people – we indirectly fund much of their benefits through our private sector free market value creation. Companies that the left ostensibly abhors – well, except when they need money.
And, to Anon's point - they are keeping pace. This is an over-response on their part. No one owes them anything.
TeaPartyTim "Thank you Gov Scott Walker for standing up to the Wisconsin Democrats who probably cannot balance their personal check books never the mind the Wisconsin state budget!"
You do know that they're $137,000,000 in the hole because they just passed $150,000,000 in tax cuts, right?
To Anonymous: Hmmmm ... I wonder what factors could possible be skewing these statistics?
First of all, I would like to see a link these statistics to see how they were compiled and who was behind the compilation. Where did you get this information? You say it was BLS but then you say a USA Today and that is a little confusing. A USA Today study means absolutely NOTHING to me and PROVES NOTHING to me in the way of an economic stat; they absolutely have an agenda.
I have actually read a similar study though, if not the same, as what you speak of from USA today conducted in 2009. It is definitely biased in the way the information was gathered. Of course when you average out all of the jobs in the private sector and all of the jobs in the public sector and compare them, the public sector will be have higher wages. They are averages. There are way more internships, student jobs, part time jobs, McDonalds jobs, summer jobs, life guarding jobs, etc. in the private sector causing the average wage to drop. A more accurate study would be to average the wages between private sector accountants and public sector accountants or something on par with that on a larger scale.
Anonymous, This had absolutely nothing to do with my previous comment about Teacher's very low compensation and conservatives always trying to force them to produce more work for their already low pay, or to further cut their salaries.
I give the bird to Union offices every time I drive by, to hell with them, they care nothing for us.
Argosy.....so WHO actually DOES care about us ??? The Koch brothers ??
"
"For 20 years, governors (Democrats) have come into this room and lied to you, promised you benefits that they had no way of paying for, making promises they knew they couldn’t keep, and just hoping that they wouldn’t be the man or woman left holding the bag. I understand why you feel angry and betrayed and deceived by those people. Here’s what I don’t understand. Why are you booing the first guy who came in here and told you the truth?”
Words every government employee should be told, over and over again
Here are the names, phone numbers, of the fourteen (14) Wisconsin state senators bent on defying the citizens of the Wisconsin.
* Tim Carpenter
(608) 266-8535
* Spencer Coggs
(608) 266-2500
* Tim Cullen
(608) 266-2253
* Jon Erpenbach
(608) 266-6670
* Dave Hansen
(608) 266-5670
* Jim Holperin
(608) 266-2509
* Robert Jauch
(608) 266-3510
* Chris Larson
(608) 266-3510
* Julie Lassa
(608) 266-3123
* Mark Miller
(608) 266-9170
* Fred Risser
(608) 266-1627
* Lena Taylor
(608) 266-5810
* Kathleen Vinehout
(608) 266-8546
* Robert Wirch
(608) 267-897988
Heroes all of them !! I guess the municipal workers aren't citizens of Wisconsin ??
The Rent A Mob Unions??? They care about us?? Hey, Good Citizens don't rob their neighbors like these Unions do. Got free viagra paid by the taxpayers?? Yes, that's true.
Great Post, TBrowns.
Waiting for it to come to the Crescent City!!
Some bunch of heroes, they run from their fights.
If the protesters flooding Madison WI are members of a government union, then who is doing the work they claim we can not do with out while they are gone?
Are they getting paid while not doing their jobs? How much?
Are the Dem. Senators from WI who have fled from their duty, getting paid while in IL?
Just wondering.
Now that you got their phone numbers, call em up and tell them what a good job they haven't done.
Browns44 "Some bunch of heroes, they run from their fights."
Browns44 is right! Here we have Big Government threatening to bring in the National Guard to drag officials (American citizens!) in, and what do we see? Nothing! Where are the Teabaggers, anyway?
"If the protesters flooding Madison WI are members of a government union, then who is doing the work they claim we can not do with out while they are gone?"
Vacation days, leave without pay, "Hey, Mary, can you stay at lunch and stay late tonight? An emergengy came up, and I have to handle it." (which makes union members like new parents), etc.
"Just wondering."
No you aren't. You hate the middle class. That's why your heels are dug so far in against the last big group that supports good, American white and blue collar jobs. (And I say that as someone who has had issues with some unions)
"Now that you got their phone numbers, call em up and tell them what a good job they haven't done."
Alternately, you could call Gov Scott Walker and the Republican majority (as well as the Dems that voted) who passed a big tax cut...which is the whole reason why they're suddenly in deficit.
And you can call the unions Walker exempted and ask them how long they think they've got before he turns on them (and ask whether supporting him was worth it).
If you liberals had kept gettin' your way in Wisconsin - we all would have heard one big loud flush. The sound of Wisconsin goin' straight down the toilet. Thank God the Wisconsin people elected a fiscally responsible Governor and State legislature to turn Wisconsin's budget problems around! Democrats in federal or state governments are as fiscally irresponsible as most teenagers with their first credit card!
Modusoperendi, are you Tom's muslim alter ego?
ArchieBunkerNYC "If you liberals had kept gettin' your way in Wisconsin - we all would have heard one big loud flush. The sound of Wisconsin goin' straight down the toilet. Thank God the Wisconsin people elected a fiscally responsible Governor and State legislature to turn Wisconsin's budget problems around!"
My favourite thing is repeating myself. So here I go: deficit caused by current administration.
Tom,
I am counting on you to attend the Union protests in Wisconsin this weekend. We need you to rant in front of the cameras in a Code Pink outfit and call that Wisconsin Governor a Nazi, Racist, and KKK member. Bring Modusoperandi with you.
Anonymous: Referring to your prior comment @ Modus Operandi, why specifically a "Muslim" alter ego ?
I'm curious. I can speculate, but I would prefer not to. Feel free to email me.
Mary Mayhem, it's because words mean nothing anymore. All they are is another tool used to define in-group/out-group tribal boundaries, and to defeat one's ideological foes.
"Muslim", as such, means "evil". So do "liberal", "progressive", "labor" (except for forced childbirth), "union" (whether as in "working people joining together to leverage their many voices as one" or as in "carpetbaggin' Yankees"), etc.
More recent bad words include:
*"ACORN" (which, among attrocities like helping the poor also helped poor brown people, who for some reason don't vote for the party that both race-baits them and attacks the poor, to register to vote),
*"Planned Parenthood" (which spends a trickle of its income on abortion services, a bunch giving women contraception that they shouldn't use, some more on top of that testing them for diseases that they wouldn't get if they weren't filthy whores, and some on top of that testing them for breast cancer, which I assume is some sort of sin-related punishment),
*"Gay rights"/"Gay marriage" (because being treated the same as the Popular Majority equals "special right")
*"Soros" (who hates America so much that he funded anti-communist groups in Easter Europe),
*"Stimulus" (because the State has no business helping to dig the country out of a recession. Hooverism is the correct path! And also gutting social programs and contractionary spending policies are also the correct path), and,
*"Obama" (for obvious reasons).
"Thank God the Wisconsin people elected a fiscally responsible Governor and State legislature to turn Wisconsin's budget problems around!"
Walker created the fiscal problems in Wisconsin! No conservative is fiscally responsible. They never have been and never will. All you conservatives are liars!!
Hey MO, since when did someone making the kind of money the Govt Union workers in WI are make them middle class?
"Hate the middle class"?, you are sounding more and more like that red headed idiot Special Ed Schultz.
Fact is MO, if some one else can do
the work of those Union Govt workers, then why do we need them?
What your really want is to raise taxes on any one making over the income of a Govt.Union worker, to pay for their wage increases.
More liberal class warfare, almost as bad as Oct. 1917 Moscow.
Liberalism, failing America since 1932
Browns44 "Hey MO, since when did someone making the kind of money the Govt Union workers in WI are make them middle class?"
The average Wisconsin teacher salary does vary, however. One major source of salary variation is what grade level you teach. In May 2009, preschool teachers in Wisconsin earned an average salary of $23,460, elementary school teachers earned $51,240, and secondary school teachers earned $49,400. (2) Education and experience level also make a difference in teacher salaries: secondary school teachers in the 90th wage percentile earned $69,550, while the entry-level teacher salary is generally in the $30,000s. (3) (ref: Wisconsin Teaching Salaries and Benefits.
That looks middle class to me.
Also, *cough*
"'Hate the middle class'?..."
You're advocating against the only big player standing against corporate hegemony. And damn you for making me say "hegemony".
"...you are sounding more and more like that red headed idiot Special Ed Schultz."
Naw. Charlie Brown hasn't been good in years.
"Fact is MO, if some one else can do the work of those Union Govt workers, then why do we need them?"
That depends. Walt Reed privatized non-medical staff. I can't find how much it was supposed to save (or how much it ended up saving), but it must've been enough to compensate for the lack of esprit-de-corps and the rats, cockroaches and unemptied bedpans.
It can be done well, provided there's good oversight. Republicans are against oversight (even after the snowballing consequences of Market Populist foolery like the repeal of Glass–Steagall or the double or triple billing, no-bid, no-receipt, no-paper trail of Haliburton-KBR). As such, privatization not infrequently turns out to cost more than it saves.
"What your really want is to raise taxes on any one making over the income of a Govt.Union worker, to pay for their wage increases."
Aw, muffin. What I want is a competent State staffed by competent staffers that work for all citizens and not just the top 2%. Since I'm not going to get that, I'll take the Dems well-meaning incompetence over the GOPs poor-fuckery.
Taken down its obvious path, State becomes WalmartWorld, where the prices are low, but the quality is crap, everything is in China, and nobody can afford even the cheap prices, because everybody works for Walmart.
Sure, it's great if you're of the investor class, but that excludes most people from even seeing the ladder for the climb up the American Dream.
"More liberal class warfare..."
Obviously. Because trickling downhill is class warfare, but the avalanche up is not.
"...almost as bad as Oct. 1917 Moscow."
What happened there? Did their lower class consistently lose, even when the markets were up? Did their middle class suffer through a lost decade? Was the solution to the problem bailing out the very people who created the mess, and planning to gut what was left of the social safety net?
"Liberalism, failing America since 1932"
Actually, it wasn't doing all that badly up until Reagan. Since then the top has gone way up, the middle has stagnated (with the exception of some of the Clinton years) and the bottom has fallen.
This wouldn't be quite so bad, but the Right has purged its thinkers, and America has swallowed the hook that sacrifice means "Not mine!" (and only the top 2% will get to actually taste that sweet nectar).
They've got us quibbling over pennies, while they loot the treasury.
MO is a third world import to the USA who is an expert in our politics when he should be an expert in the politics of whatever third world country he calls home. I will use an old analogy, people like MO are like those you invite over for dinner and then complain that there is too much or too little cream in the potatoes. Personally I'm done responding to his gibberish.
Boltok, in actuality, Modusoperandi understands American politics and economics far better than the vast majority of citizens, you being no exception.
Gibberish?! Honestly, he's one of the few who takes the time to research and provide links to substantiate and back-up his claims. If he had a blog, I'd visit it frequently.
Personally, whenever Modusoperandi "speaks", I "listen", because I'm always open to learning and understanding the truth, which apparently you are not. You should open your mind and close your mouth. You just may discover enlightenment. (After all, hope springs eternal.)
"whenever Modusoperandi "speaks", I "listen"."
Well that explains a lot.
"I give the bird to Union offices every time I drive by, to hell with them, they care nothing for us."
When I drive by, I think about throwing bricks thru the windows of the Union offices and what time of night it would have to be to get away with it.
It's unfortunate that people (Tea Baggers, right-wingers, the uninformed and the ignorant) don't understand the history of American unionization and the reason people...workers...were forced to band together against capitalists ("trusts") in order to secure safe and fair working conditions during the last century or more. I would venture to say that most, incorrectly, think that fair wages, 40 hours work weeks, overtime pay, and other benefits, were "gifts" derived from the benevolence and generosity of ownership and management. All the ever-eroding benefits we enjoy, and have taken for granted, were earned and fought for. Most people, most prominently conservatives, apparently have no idea what hardship and sacrifices, including spilled blood, their ancestors had to endure in order for the American middle-class to become a reality.
The present day worker, due to clever propagandizing through the corporate-owned media over the course of the last thirty-plus years, in addition to their own willful ignorance, has chosen to attack the very entities that made America the envy of workers around the world. Now, they're pissin' on the graves of those who allowed them to have the highest standard of living in the history of humankind.
I hope Wisconsin turns out being a positive turning point for American unionization. Otherwise, all those "grave-pissers" better have their lips puckered, also, because they'll have to kiss any chance of an "American dream" goodbye.
No unionization equals no middle class. It's as simple as that.
Oh, and I almost forgot, here's a special message for Browns44:
Yes, it certainly does explain a lot...mostly about you.
Boltok, with regards to MO you said:"Personally I'm done responding to his gibberish."
Now that is the best posting I have read yet.
JG
Unions are labor cartels, nothing more.
Unions reduce investment, reduce productivity and reduce competitiveness. They advance their own objective by increasing the costs to the rich and more importantly to the poor.
Everything unions touch performs poorly. The auto industry and state of education are perfect examples.
For a visual, look at Richard Trumka. The fat slob as a leader tells you all you need to know. The representation of greed, lethargy and stupidity.
Jeffersons Guardian,
Do you know why nobody posts on your blog? Its because you are full of shit and pretend to be an intellectual which is common amongst your progressive species.
The fact is that people in the private sector work in a climate where costs must be controlled and there is accountablity. People being paid an income must show a corresponding output in goods and services. The company cannot survive without accountability in controlling their costs, unless of course they kiss Obamas ass and get an unfair subsidy.
The people in the private sector, whose income and benefits go up and down with the economy, are SICK AND TIRED of seeing their tax money go to the government unions who expect lifetime jobs, top notch benefits, and NO ACCOUNTABLITY FOR WHAT THEY PRODUCE! I have heard first hand from people who have worked in state government WHAT A FUCKING JOKE IT IS!. State Departments have way too many people for the work that needs to be done.
Unions helped produce better working conditions over the years. That is an era that has passed. Now the Unions only demand more and more benefits without any accountability to what they produce. To the current unions, I say go fuck yourselves.
BOLTOK...you and all the other brainwashed people out there miss JG's whole point. Capitalist employers are with few exceptions cheap and greedy when it comes to employee compensation, benefits and compassion. Without the bargaining power created by the solidarity and virtue of workers, wages will be kept as low as possible while profits and bonuses to the fat cats will be huge. What is going on now in Amerika is a conspiracy the goal of which is to create a plutocracy or fascist state. It's amazing how soon after the Citizen's United decision so many more misinformed, brainwashed people started posting on this site. Not to mention all the idiots elected into public office as a result of the dirty ad money authorized by that joke of a US Supreme Court. So keep the protests coming Amerika !! Municipal workers, private sector workers are all in this together. Make some noise !!! Abbie Hoffman would have been proud of you !!
For the record, I do not take credit for the authorship of Anon 12:18. If I could, I would.
Thank you for your interesting blog. Our local Girl Scouts are going down to Madison to learn about the democratic system first hand. I had to lend some of my Pete Seeger cd's for the trip. On the way down they will learn about labor history, the rednecks, and other even more Wisconsin specific union history. I have a Union lable skirt that I brought to the last meeting, that skirt is older than I am, but the workmaship is awesome. Anyway we learned the Union Lable song. The girls are going to have a wonderful time. I am so proud of the nurses and firefighters and nursing aides who have already made tough financial concessions. I am glad that the collective bargaining will be cut from this bill, so help us God!
Ellis D Marx said:
"Capitalist employers are with few exceptions cheap and greedy when it comes to employee compensation, benefits and compassion."
BULLSHIT, keep reading Karl Marx, a person that did not have the family values to go out and find any kind of work to support his family which lived most of the time in poverty due to his lack of work ethic.
If you produce for your company, in the majority of cases you will be justly rewarded. No one is holding a gun to your head to work at a company that is underpaying you. I have left companies for higher wages. My wages have consistently gone up as I learn how to produce more with less time. Your doomsday view of Capitalism is total socialist/communist bullshit. The United States system of capitalism has moved a far greater mass of people to a much higher standard of living than your beloved Soviet Union system of economic justice ever did.
If you have almost no job skills and produce very little, which sounds like your case Ellis, you are in tough shape. You should see one of the fine Social Workers in your state on how to go about obtaining better job skills.
If you had a company would you pay a loafer who produces little but expects the same pay as his coworkers producing much more?
I don't have a problem with some of my tax money going to a person who truly can't work.
Anonymous, thank you for your well-intentioned, but uninformed and meaningless reply. For you, legitimately and honestly, to believe that multinational corporations are currently barely surviving because the cost side of their income statements are spiraling out of control, shows exactly how you've been colonized and duped into one of the biggest shenanigans in corporate history. Basing your premise on a free market, with its naive notions of fair trade and "the market will determine the price" concepts of Adam Smith and Ayn Rand, isn't recognizing the existence of monopolist and oligopolist capitalism (i.e. predatory capitalism) -- which defines and controls our economy, our government, and our very culture and existence today.
Conservatives, like yourself, like to argue that the higher labor costs drive up the cost of goods and services, and to some extent that's true. But at the same time, unionization increases the disposable income of the middle class, making those slightly-more-expensive goods and services more easily purchasable. The result of widespread well-paid workers and "more expensive" goods is a strong middle class and a healthy local and national economy, as America had during the forty years before radical conservatives took the White House and Congress in the 1980s, and, not coincidentally, when union membership was at its peak. The result of the loss of good-paying jobs over the last thirty years may have meant cheaper goods at Wal-Mart, but it hasn't led to healthier communities or an expansion of the middle class. To the contrary, the Wal-Martization of America has driven up the number of people falling out of the middle class and into the category of the working poor -- currently the largest percentage of adults since the Great Depression.
As far as your impression that "nobody" comments on my blog, if you were throwing a high hard one in order to put me on the ground, you'll have to do a lot better than that. People may not always comment, but I do receive a substantial amount of traffic to my site. I'm referenced occasionally by national blogs, and there are readers of my blog who visit once-in-a-while and others who visit regularly. Maybe you ought to, too, you may learn something.
Anonymous....if we are stuck with a monetary based, cut-throat competitive system this discussion is really about what is fair and adequate compensation for workers. As I've said before I am not concerned about myself, I do fine IN SPITE of the one-sided employment system in Amerika !! It is the numerous folks who are less fortunate that I care about. So should minimum wage allow a full time janitor to earn a living wage above the poverty level or should that janitor work TWO full time jobs to get the bills paid for him/herself and FAMILY ??? I'd hope at least one of the jobs provides health insurance coverage because he/she is going to need it !!! So this isn't about loafers getting windfalls it is about hardworking people getting taken advantage of and exploited. I hope Anonymous has a high paying job because when bread costs $25 a loaf he is going to need it !!
Don't insinuate that "nobody' comments on the blog written by Jefferson's Guardian. A number of people have commented there including yours truly. The reason he hasn't gotten a HUGE amount of comments is because he only started the site two months ago. It took me that long before I even got a single hit. He's doing pretty good.
Which reminds me, JG, I'm going to supply a link to your site on DAS RANT today. I should have thought of that sooner. And PLEASE don't be shy about leaving a link when you post here!
All the best,
Tom
PS -
http://www.nocorprule.blogspot.com/
Happy reading, campers!
Tom,
LOL about JGs blog getting posts. JG posts on Annas Zees and Anna Zee posts on JGs. Other than that all you hear are crickets!
Jefferson's Guardian you are nothing but a load of socialist shit!
I was about to delete the previous comment, but then I caught myself. Nah, I thought. Let it stand as a monument to this silly person's ignorance.
By the way, JG, the link is up - and I'll be sure to give your site a plug at the bottom of the next column. I've been telling you for years that you should start your own site. I'm happy you finally did.
Thanks, Tom, for your recommendation and support. To be fair, it's been more than a couple of months since I started No Corporate Rule, but as I'm sure you're certainly aware, the incessant need to make a living continues to get in the way of our chosen avocation.
By the way, my very first post, back in July, was sort of...kind of...dedicated to "The Rant". I related a comment I made in one of your posts back in September, 2008 -- literally just days before the "financial crisis" hit and the house of cards started coming down. How little I realized the enormity of my statement to you at the time.
Gee, Anonymous, I wish I could praise and applaud the virtues of your blog, too, but I see you don't have one! ;-) The HTML too tough for ya', buddy? Or, is it after spouting your usual simple sentences of right-wing sound-bytes and drivel, you're embarrassed you won't have anything meaningful to say?
You'll have to do a hell of a lot better than that if you're trying to get under my skin.
Beeb wondering how those Union members were going to keep their jobs when the protest in Madison is over? Wonder no more Sparky, they just lie.
maciverinstitute.com/
Madison, WI] As tens of thousands of public employees skipped work this week to attend protest rallies outside the Wisconsin State Capitol, many wondered if they would face any disciplinary action for unexcused absences.
On Saturday, a group of men and women in lab coats purporting to be doctors were handing out medical excuse notes, without examining the ‘patients.’
“I asked this doctor what he was doing and he told me they were handing out excuses to people who were feeling sick due to emotional, mental or financial distress,” said Christian Hartsock. “They never performed an exam–he asked me how I was feeling today and I said I’m from California and I’m not used to the cold, so he handed me a note.”
Based on an examination of the signature and medical license number provided, one of the men handing out these notes was purporting to be James H Shropshire MD, a Clinical Associate Professor at the University Wisconsin Madison.
Turns out it is James H Shropshire MD, a Clinical Associate Professor at the University Wisconsin Madison.
WONDERFUL, just WONDERFUL, another hero in the eye's of MO, JG, tlnib, Ellis D Esq and the other solders in the Workers Army of America.
Any one need an excuse to takeoff from work next week with pay, the good ole Union way, go to the link above and print up your own Dr. excuse.
Anon, you know your up the creek when JG starts questioning your html skills. html skills seems to be the wonderlic test for the lunatic left wing blogs.
With all of the talk about various blogs, I would like to ask Boltok, Browns44, Harley A and all of the various Anonymous writers what other blogs you post to. Do let us know so that we can follow all of your pearls of wisdom.
What all you socialists on here can't stand is the simple fact that capitalism has brought more people a higher standard of living than any other economic system. Unfortunately, there is no perfect economic system.
The following is from wikipedia about Robert Heilbroner, a socialist, who may have sold more books about economics than anybody. And yes I own a few of his books (if one of you intellectuals wants to comment that this last sentence is incorrect, GO FUCK YOURSELF). The Worldly Philsophers, one of top sellers about economics of all time, is a great unbiased book:
wikipedia
Though an outspoken socialist for nearly his entire career, Heilbroner famously wrote in a 1989 New Yorker article:
Less than 75 years after it officially began, the contest between capitalism and socialism is over: capitalism has won...Capitalism organizes the material affairs of humankind more satisfactorily than socialism.
To be politically correct, to you lefty economically challenged people out there, start with Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson." If you can't master this book, you are wasting your time in economics.
Jefferson's Guardian, Modusoperandi, Ellis D. Marx, please do not respond to this, you are economic fools.
Right now while I am typing this on a laptop connected to my wireless router, I am also watching on a high def TV, youtube videos of Rush, Eric Clapton, and others thru a Sony Media player (that arrived a day ago) for around $120 that also connects wirelessly to my wireless router. To all the ignorant leftists on here against deregulation, would this have been possible if Ma Bell had not been deregulated in 1985? FYI, prior to that, the FCC regulations did not permit people to buy their own telephones for $19.95, instead you had to pay $4.00 a month to lease your Ma Bell phone.
FYI- I have made a lot of Anonymous posts on here and will probably stop as it is a waste of fucking time arguing with leftist idiots who are clueless about economics. To the leftist idiots who do not believe it is their duty to learn a job skill that other members of society want, do us all a favor and do not reproduce.
Dear Charles Moore,
In response to your request that I provide you with a list of all the blogs that I "post to", my reply is this, spend the time you now waste on the Daily Kos, Huffington Post, and Special Ed Schultz's spot on the WWW, and do some work and research and find out on your own.
Respectfully yours,
Browns44
Go, Amy. Go, Wisconsin.
wispy tendrils of rational thought
caress the fringes of troll lunacy
the effect is negligible
ensconced in a cocoon
of contrived lunatic notions
inflexible, unknowing, uncaring
the cocoon provides the troll
with sustenance, purpose
thus, sated the troll neither seeks
nor understands reality
in effect they're blind
and the truth can not
nor will it ever
set them free!!
BOLTOK "Unions are labor cartels, nothing more. Unions reduce investment, reduce productivity and reduce competitiveness. They advance their own objective by increasing the costs to the rich and more importantly to the poor."
Ah ha! So that's why as unions have shrunk, the gap between rich and poor has skyrocketed!
"Everything unions touch performs poorly."
Obviously. The Big Three confusing "cheap car" for "small car" and sinking all their profit in to dividends, healthcare and retirement costs (that neither management nor the unions considered as problematic, as they both expected American auto to keep expanding), boardroom salaries and golden parachutes, and building gas-guzzling (helping their sales follow gas prices) trucks on new chassis every four or five years (while letting less profitable lines lie fallow, making them even less popular as other automakers leapfrogged them) is all the union's fault. Again, even as they lost power.
"For a visual, look at Richard Trumka. The fat slob as a leader tells you all you need to know. The representation of greed, lethargy and stupidity."
Exactly. A person's value (and the value of their opinions and beliefs) is directly proportionate to their physical appearance. Just like this unpatriotic America hater. And the 74.1% of Americans who are obese must all be liberal unionists (and the fattest States are all liberal bastions. except California and parts of the Northeast). And those lazy, corpulent union-lovers, Chris Christie and Rush Limbaugh.
Browns44 "Beeb wondering how those Union members were going to keep their jobs when the protest in Madison is over? Wonder no more Sparky, they just lie."
That's odd. If I were them I'd have taken some of the 16 unpaid furlough days they voluntarily accepted earlier, before the attempt at union-breaking (an attempt that exempts cops, State troopers and firefighters, who just happen to have supported Walker over his opponent).
ArchieBunkerNYC "What all you socialists on here can't stand is the simple fact that capitalism has brought more people a higher standard of living than any other economic system."
So America before Reagan wasn't capitalist?
"Unfortunately, there is no perfect economic system."
True. What's happening clearly is not working for more and more Americans. Most of the gains have gone to the few at the very top.
Saying it's "capitalism or socialism" is misstating the issue. The argument is where the line is (note that the more the line has been pushed towards capitalism over the last thirty years, the more and more people have been pushed down).
"To all the ignorant leftists on here against deregulation, would this have been possible if Ma Bell had not been deregulated in 1985?"
And? I (and I can't speak for everybody, although I will anyway. I'm cheeky) am not saying that all regulation is good.
Now, what do think about us giving them (or selling them at below market value) a bunch of the infrastructure that your taxes paid for in the first place? That isn't socialism or capitalism. That's crony corporatism.
MO
"If I were them I'd have taken some of the 16 unpaid furlough days they voluntarily accepted earlier."
So I guess the reason the good DR was there handing out fake I've been sick notes is because what?
Please.
Archie, having majored in economics in college, Hazlitt never was my cup of tea. Neither was von Mises, Friedman, or any of the other classical economists from a bygone era. For instance, they never took extraneous costs into consideration, and certainly never put any thought into the effects of monopolistic tendencies while modeling their "free market" ideas. Their ideas are flawed, simply because their ideas never considered real life scenarios.
I strongly suggest that you read any of the Keynesian economists, such as John Maynard Keynes (obviously) or John Kenneth Galbraith, or more contemporary New Keynesian thought from Joseph Stiglitz or Paul Krugman, each awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics in the last ten years (2001 and 2008, respectively).
Enlighten yourself! You may be surprised!
Just in case any of you need a Dr's excuse to stay home from work or school, here's one of the HEROES of the 'Workers Army of America' who's happy to cover your day off.
Dr. Hannah M. Keevil, MD
Office locations for Dr. Hannah Keevil
Primary Location
UW Health Odana Clinic
5618 Odana Road
Madison, WI, 53719
Phone Number: (608) 274-1100
Tell her, the Union Hall sent ya.
Browns44 "So I guess the reason the good DR was there handing out fake I've been sick notes is because what?"
Odd. I don't remember disagreeing with you there (my comment was more to point out that the union had already voluntarily sacrificed). Anecdotal or not, both the doctors and protesters involved should be investigated and fined.
Also, this is completely different than when Walker gave tax cuts to the industries that bankrolled his run for office.
Jefferson's Guardian "For instance, they never took extraneous costs into consideration…"
Pah! "Negative externalities" is just liberal for "highest fiduciary duty to maximizing profit". To you, that black crud coming out of a coal-powered powerplant's stacks is the so-called "negative externality" of so-called "pollution", while to that mom & pop corporation it's money they saved by not scrubbing the exhaust (ie: profit).
"The fact is that people in the private sector work in a climate where costs must be controlled and there is accountablity. People being paid an income must show a corresponding output in goods and services. The company cannot survive without accountability in controlling their costs, unless of course they kiss Obamas ass and get an unfair subsidy."
These days, people in the private sector have to show an ever-increasing output in goods and services for a steadily dwindling amount of income while costs are continuously slashed to the bone. Accountability only applies when practiced unevenly on the ground floor and in middle management. It mysteriously disappears when you approach the executive level. Of course, when you're too busy sucking corporate dick for a few crumpled $1 bills and looks of utter contempt from those you're "servicing", you tend to overlook things like that.
Corporate America has its useful idiots, the GOP and their corporate Democrat counterparts, using their useful idiots, such as people who honestly believe everything that is filtered through the corporate media organs and allow their personal berserk buttons to get pushed with depressing regularity, to turn the public sector into a mirror image of the private sector as described above.
They're using envy to do it. It's another one of those berserk buttons that Corporate America pushes in order to get people sufficiently pissed off at unions to go out for blood. They'll cry and beg the GOP and corporate Dems to get rid of the "fatcat unions" and their "outrageous wages" without realizing they're cutting off their own long-term financial and job security. The American people are like the dog chasing and gnawing off its own tail.
Once unions are effectively dead and the U.S. turns into one huge "right to work" zone, Corporate America will focus on getting rid of the national minimum wage. And then they'll unveil "company housing" and "company stores" in response to the tremenous numbers of workers losing their houses and livelihoods thanks to plummeting wages and rising food and housing costs.
If you went back in time to 1875 and told a poor Mississippi cracker his great-grandchildren will end up becoming sharecroppers like the Negros of that time, he'd punch you in the face.
Welcome to corporate sharecropping, America. Hope you like getting paid in scrip -- you're gonna need it for the company store, after all.
"The Los Angeles Unified School District spends more than $12,000 per child and has a 40% graduation rate. Los Angeles Charter schools spend $6,500 per child and have an 80% graduation rate."
Charter schools are a bit more selective in the kind of students they take in. On the other hand, LAUSD is obligated by law to take in any and every student. The $12,000 figure? Most of that is lost in administrative costs. The superintendant has to live and eat well, after all.
"If these people don’t like their jobs and the pay that goes with it they can quit and do something else. It’s a free country. If these people are so VALUABLE, let them prove it by quitting and making more elsewhere."
Boltok, the problem with folks like you is that you didn't give two shits about this when you and your cohorts were working the line in assembly plants for comfortable sums of money, enough to spend on toys like fishing boats, vacation homes and new cars. Then the economy went to shit and your buddies lost their jobs to slave wage laborers in China and Mexico. Your paycheck turned to shit and you found out those teachers, whom you thought had it easy and didn't work as hard as you did (despite how you showed up on the line drunk off your fucking gourd several times) still had their unions (while yours were made obsolete by "right to work" states) and were now making more than you. You want teachers to sit down and eat $12k-$15k salaries because that's all you think they're worth.
These guys are teaching your kids and your buddies' kids. At least they will be if they don't decide to take your advice about quitting and making more elsewhere. People who are comfortable with making $12k-$15k/year will fill in those jobs. Those people will conclude that their duties are not worth $15k and work accordingly. Your state will join Alabama at the bottom of the ranks for education.
And no, you will not be sending your kids to private schools because your salary cannot sustain it. And you will not be sending your kids to charter schools because they did not make it through the lottery-based admissions process.
Whoa! Mack the Lyon! good ones! Keep 'em coming, pal! Seriously!
All the best,
Tom Degan
From Mack the Lyon
"Boltok, the problem with folks like you is that you didn't give two shits about this when you and your cohorts were working the line in assembly plants for comfortable sums of money, enough to spend on toys like fishing boats, vacation homes and new cars. "
What are you talking about???
FWIW, I have come from a very humble background. I have never looked to government as the answer to any of my problems. I have the life I do because I constantly educate myself, spend less than I make, don't make excuses and DON'T expect the government tit to show up at my door. And by the way, I have historically given a lot of money to others and to charities. I have NO problem helping those in need. I don't like helping losers that should take care of themselves.
One thing none of you address when the topic arises is where is the money to pay for these benefits. This country is bankrupt. The states are bankrupt. People can't afford their property taxes. As long as you parasites can identify someone who has extra dollars in their bank account, you think you have the right, through your liberal justification philosophies, so seize and distribute those assets.
I say increase teachers pay, but only to schools and teachers that convey skills and graduate their students. Anyone else with their shit results should be fired without ceremony. When people think they may get fired, miraculously results begin to improve.
You guys want a link to look at. I have attached a news article from Wisconsin. You think this teacher bullshit has support. Found the story on drudge, skip to the comments.
http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Madison_Schools_Prepare_For_Staff_Absences_116265614.html?storySection=comments
I wonder how many of you would work an extra ten hours a week and give all the money to government because you think it would advance the common good. I guess none.
Boltok:
You say you found the story on Drudge? Then it must be true!
But seriously....
This is why people watch fox and not mslsd
This guy is a classic liberal POS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhQbj-y45U4&feature=player_embedded
td
It's for the madison news station, nbc i think.
I said skip the story and real the comments of the locals.
I just saw the clip for the second time (I saw it as it was being aired this week). O'Donnell was right on point. If this fellow was a Liberal Democrat I think you might have a different opinion of his sleeping in his senate office.
Boltok, the link you provided originally came from an NBC affiliate (i.e. corporate news -- mainstream corporate media, etc.) Do you think the corporate agenda is going to show labor in a good light? C'mom, really? They wouldn't even bother to report it except for the fact it's so brazenly apparent (like they've neglected to report, with due diligence, this and this.)
Furthermore, you and the other conservative voices on this blog are attempting to change the discourse of the discussion. All of a sudden you're all keying on the insignificant minutia of this event (absent workers, fraudulent doctor excuses, etc.) because you know what the governor of the state of Wisconsin is attempting to pull off, and you know -- if you're honest with yourself (and us) -- that it's not only wrong, but may be illegal. Please stick to the matter at hand -- the governor's attempt to break the union by ramrodding a bill through that would deny collective bargaining rights. That's the issue we're discussing.
Try again. From what I can tell, you're grasping at straws.
Question that I would really like JG, Tom and others to answer. Based on the similarity of your comments regarding Corporations, where can I get a copy of your play book?
TD
If he sleeps in his office I don't care. If he owes residence income taxes for his time in DC to DC, and I have no idea if he does, he should pay them. Why do I care if he stays in his office 24 hours a day?
On the other hand, when Lawrence gose after the guy who runs the treasury doesnt have the sophistication to run turbo tax, charles rangel, tom daschle, etc. please post the link.
Im not changing any subject. I would fire everyone who doesnt show up to work. I would reduce pay and benefits accross the board to an amount that the state could afford. Thereafter, I would create a system that awards performance and fires those that dont.
I have said nothing significant about the minutiae you allude to. The video link and its comments, hundres of them, convey what Wisconsin residents think.
If tea partiers were saying the things these fools are saying, you'd be spitting blood.
Do you think JG and MO have been created by Persona Management Software??? If so, it will be a while before the software advances from beta.
if big government is sooo good and sooo lovable, why do government workers need a union? Are they afraid of being abused by the very same government they want to see made larger and more powerful?
The US government is offering private intelligence companies contracts to create software to manage “fake people” on social media sites and create the illusion of consensus on controversial issues.
The contract calls for the development of “Persona Management Software” which would help the user create and manage a variety of distinct fake profiles online. The job listing was discussed in recently leaked emails from the private security firm HBGary after an attack by internet activist last week.
Here is the website address:
www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&id=d88e9d660336be91552fe8c1a51bacb2&mode=form&tab=core&_cview=1
Great tool to get around those blogs where you are banned by creating 10 fake persona's with 10 fake IP's. Or could be used to "show over whelming support or opposition to a position". Or posting comments on a newspapers website, the possibilities are endless where this could be used.
At first I thought the contract was for use outside CONUS, now not so sure. Read the contract and decided for yourself on that.
Wonder if comments now being posted that are pro WI. govt unions are using this? Wonder if this had anything to do with the recent events in Egypt? Imagine just 100 contracts equals 1000 different posters, that's better than Special Ed's wish for being able to vote twice against GOP candidates.
JG,
Thank you for your well stated, polite response to my question. I will do as you suggest and read Thom Hartmannn's book.
If I disagree with his positions, I will state them in the same manner as I have in my other posts, respectfully, but firmly. The misconception on the left that Conservatives are inbred, closed minded, moonshine runners is not correct. I hope you realize the error in taking those who you disagree with so lightly.
Again thanks for your reply.
Tom,
If you are in Madison I would like to meet up with you and give you the best hummer you have ever had!
Browns44, you owe it to yourself to read Hartmann's Unequal Protection. I assure you, you will not be disappointed. Hartmann discusses a topic that's totally nonpartisan, which any American who truly cares about democracy, and how it's becoming a distant memory, will make a point of reading.
It appears Tom tossed my last comment (with the link to Amazon, along with the other links) into the trash bin, for whatever reason, so if you need it please don't hesitate to e-mail me.
Please don't get the idea that I take conservatives lightly. If anything, I feel the opposite way. I'm not one who attacks those I disagree with, unless I'm labeled and attacked first. I, along with most on this blog, have been called a socialist, a communist, a Marx-lover, lazy, full of s**t, and other derogatory names and remarks, more times than I can count. So my feeling is exactly the same as yours; it's not fair to label those who disagree with your particular political leanings or philosophy. I'm sure you'll agree.
I come to this blog to discuss ideas and topics that are important to me, just as I assume you do. Unfortunately, too many times, I see those of the conservative persuasion altering the course of discussion, to fulfill their own needs, instead of staying on topic and discussing the pros and cons of each. Since this is primarily a "liberal" blog, it is perplexing to me why a few conservatives, those who can be counted on one hand, continue to spend an inordinate amount of time here. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Tom welcomes you all, and I certainly enjoy productive and meaningful dialog, but when the discourse gets diverted and full of name-calling, than it seems like those with divergent points-of-view are only coming here with an alternative agenda in mind.
I'd very much like to hear your ideas about this.
Thanks!
BOLTOK "I wonder how many of you would work an extra ten hours a week and give all the money to government because you think it would advance the common good."
Excuse my sharp tongue, but where the fuck was your outrage when TARP passed? $700,000,000,000. No strings attached. All laws suspended. To a bunch of the same people that knocked 40% off the value of your home and turned your 401k into a 201k.
And you're seriously arguing over whether public unions (exempt police, State troopers and firefighters) should be allowed to bargain collectively?
...
How come the outrage doesn't flow up?
"This guy is a classic liberal POS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhQbj-y45U4&feature=player_embedded"
You do know that he's right, right?
"Im not changing any subject."
And you say that right after you changed the subject. You're a shoe-in for Not Changing the Subject's ironic spokesman.
Tom Degan's Daily Rant "I just saw the clip for the second time (I saw it as it was being aired this week). O'Donnell was right on point. If this fellow was a Liberal Democrat I think you might have a different opinion of his sleeping in his senate office."
Let's see:
"Boltok said...
"Typical liberal leech parasite union thieves [link to youtube of FoxNews showing Barney Frank living in his office]. ACORN Carter Planned Parenthood!"
Jefferson's Guardian "I...have been called a...Marx-lover..."
To be fair, you do mention an awful lot that time you saw an elephant in your pajamas.
Hey, JG.
Honest, I never delete anyone - and I certainly would NEVER delete anything you write, pal. I don't know how it could possibly have gotten knocked off.
But the post was still in my in box and I offer the link to Thom's book once again. Here 'tis:
http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Protection-Corporate-Dominance-Rights/dp/1605095710?&camp=212361&linkCode=wey&tag=thomhartmann&creative=380737
Feel free to post a link to anything you like - especially if it's a book written by Tom Hartmann! The man rocks.
All the best,
Thom Degan
Thanks, Tom, I really didn't think you knocked it off. I sort of feel it has to do with Blogger and how many hyperlinks it'll accept in the comments module. I recall MO mentioning that his comments disappeared periodically into thin air, and he being the "king of hyperlinks" it's my guess it's some obscure technical issue.
Thom Hartmann is a prophet of our times. He certainly does rock!
Thanks again!
MO
You may want to check into the emergency room. You are showing symptoms of a stroke.
I don't think I knew about this blog when tarp was passed. I can assure there is not the slightest chance I would support TARP style interventions, and I dont support the runaway spending today.
Economically, I think the govt should have encouranged markets to adjust as quickly as possible, get the pain out of the way, and allow a return to a growth economy as opposed permanent interventions and the risk of curreny crises, government defaults and stagflation.
Fred Levenhagen either called in sick or whatever. But whatever he did – HE LIED!
Fred is the guy who shouted mindlessly over and over “FOX LIES, FOX LIES!”
HYPOCRITE! Call the school and demand this LIAR to be FIRED!
Position: 8th Grade Teacher
E-Mail Address: fred.levenhagen@lcs.k12.wi.us
Phone Number: (262) 367-3606 ext. 283
Lake Country School District
Hartland, WI
Jefferson's Guardian's disease has rubbed off on me! I just had a comment disappear! Woe!
This comment has been removed by the author.
Browns44 "Fred Levenhagen either called in sick or whatever. But whatever he did – HE LIED! Fred is the guy who shouted mindlessly over and over “FOX LIES, FOX LIES!”"
Fred Levenhagen either called in sick or whatever. But whatever he did – HE LIED! Fred is the guy who shouted mindlessly over and over “FOX LIES, FOX LIES!"
Who knew that a network that consistently demonizes liberals would be so unpopular among them? What next, will the GOP act surprised that African Americans, Mexican Americans, homosexuals and other easy-bait groups tend not to vote Republican?
And did anybody else notice that the reporter felt the need to defend himself against his own employer? "This is Fox Business Network, just FYI."
Thanks Browns44. I just emailed FOX LIES guy, letting him know that he has now surpassed the guy that quit his flight attending job by telling everyone to shove it over the intercom, pulling the emergency escape slide, sliding out the plane, and running down the runway to freedom and incarceration as my HERO. I'm going to bake brownies for him, and sew him some mittens and a matching scarf and make a care package. I hope they show THAT on FOX BUSINESS NEW NETWORK. ZING!
What did you expect? Posting THAT on THIS blog with all of THESE lazy, crazy, socialist, elite liberals, living off the government's teet. Guf-faw!
Yes, you should all rush after Fred Levenhagen. After all, you have no evidence that he skipped work (at least, none presented here), and the report doesn't appear to have been done during school hours (it was dark out, making it more likely to be evening or early morning than day).
Yes, he was rude. I've got some pearls here, if you need some to clutch.
Modusoperandi, apparently the disease isn't fatal.
Browns44, Modusoperandi's right. Why would you defame a guy like you did? So now you're begrudging a guy for his "right to assembly"?
Nice one Tom. Congrats to Cousin Amy and all the workers of Wisconsin for beginning the fight back against the baggers and their Republican masters, they give me hope and inspiration!
Defenders of Fred Levenhagen.
1.his right to assembly was never infringed upon.
2.his right to free speech was never infringed upon.
3.the video was made with his full knowledge.
4.date he was filmed was not a school holiday.
5.he has nothing to fear from his bosses if he had taken legitimate day off.
6.no one forced him to be there.
p.s. I am sure he will enjoy his 5 minutes of fame.
Browns44, you're evading the statement made by Modusoperandi:
"...you have no evidence that he skipped work (at least, none presented here), and the report doesn't appear to have been done during school hours (it was dark out, making it more likely to be evening or early morning than day)."
How is it that you can accuse Levenhagen of missing work when the interview video was shot during darkness? How many schools in Wisconsin are in session during nighttime hours?
Let's just say you don't have proof that Levenhagen skipped work (you can only assume he did), plus you've intentionally neglected to address Modusoperandi's statement.
Nonetheless, you're quibbling over details that are inconsequential. The issue being discussed, and the reason workers are protesting in Madison, is that the governor is attempting to ramrod a bill through the legislature designed specifically, and purposefully, to bust and outlaw unions (not to mention the turning over of public works and infrastructure to private bidders -- in particular, and in all probability, Koch Industries)
Ellis D. Esq you have your finger on the pulse brother.
The Bottom Line has no consciousness...just like Computers and pencil pushers...the new Holy Trinity.
As the Grateful Dead observed:
Throwing Stones
Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free
Dizzy with eternity.
Paint it with a skin of sky, brush in some clouds and sea
Call it home for you and me.
A peaceful place or so it looks from space
A closer look reveals the human race.
Full of hope, full of grace, is the human face.
But afraid, we may our home to waste.
There's a fear down here we can't forget hasn't got a name just yet
Always awake, always around singing ashes to ashes all fall down.
Now watch as the ball revolves and the nighttime calls
And again the hunt begins and again the bloodwind calls
By and by again, the morning sun will rise
But the darkness never goes from some men's eyes.
It strolls the sidewalks and it rolls the streets
Stalking turf, dividing up meat.
Nightmare spook, piece of heat, you and me, you and me.
Click, flashblade in ghetto night. Rudies looking for a fight.
Rat cat alley roll them bones. Need that cash to feed that jones
And the politicians throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes all fall down.
Commissars and pin-striped bosses role the dice
Any way they fall guess who gets to pay the price.
Money green or proletarian gray, selling guns instead of food today.
So the kids they dance, they shake their bones
While the politicians throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes all fall down.
Heartless powers try to tell us what to think
If the spirit's sleeping, then the flesh is ink.
History's page, it is thusly carved in stone
The future's here, we are it, we are on our own.
If the game is lost then we're all the same
No one left to place or take the blame.
We will leave this place an empty stone
Or this shinning ball of blue we can call our home
So the kids they dance, they shake their bones
While the politicians are throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes all fall down.
Shipping powders back and forth
Singing "black goes south while white comes north"
And the whole world full of petty wars
Singing "I got mine and you got yours."
And the current fashions set the pace.
Lose your step, fall out of grace.
And the radical he rant and rage, Singing "someone got to turn the page"
And the rich man in his summer home,
Singing "Just leave well enough alone"
But his pants are down, his cover's blown
And the politicians are throwing stones
So the kids they dance they shake their bones
Cause its all too clear we're on our own
Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free
It's dizzying, the possibilities. Ashes, Ashes all fall down.
Tom, Bravo to you and your cousin!
Now to all those who have said such harsh words about teachers - I notice all of you typing...words with grammar and punctuation even. How did you learn to do this? Your mothers and your fathers? Perhaps - partially. My mom taught my letters and how to spell several words to prepare me to enter kindergarten. My dad taught my basic number skills for the same reason. It was fun and I couldn't WAIT to get to school.
Who did I find when I got there? (GASP!) A teacher! She took the basic tools given to me by my parents and TAUGHT me things.
12 years later, after I estimate about 60 teachers had taught me various subjects, I graduated.
62 people who had a hand in what I know and do today.
Would I say they were useless and overpaid? NO!
Baseball players making 125 million over 5 years for playing a game that's mostly for entertainmetn purposes? (Don't yell at me for this - just pointing it out - I LOVE baseball...but still...) Bad actors commanding 12 million a film (approximately 30-60 days of work!) The good actors who learned their craft from TEACHERS...(GASP!)...probably don't make nearly that much.
So back to those 62 people....those teachers...they have had more effect on my daily life then any entertainer or athlete.
Don't they deserve a little consideration? Someone in their comments called the "glorified" baby sitters, well, they feel that way too sometimes. I know teachers, they get so tired of being the ones that have to teach basic manners to kids, keep bullies from beating up the bullied, work with and try to help and reach 25-30 kids every single day if they're K-5 or 6th graders. Many more then that if they are secondary education teachers.
Who deserves a little respect here?
The salary most teachers make is nothing compared with the work they put in day in and day out - and don't sqawk about them working only 9 months of the year. Most of them try to further their education during their "off" months or work in camps or teach summer school! Their summers ARE NOT free...
Oh, and those that support the cops and fireman - guess what? They have teachers that teach them their jobs! TEACHERS! WHOA...imagine that...
Tom, i don't know how you make a living from what you write but i think it's absurd, your using the 83 ethics charges against newt to pretend to be saying something. just the same as the Nobel peace prize given to Obama was a empty gesture .The 83 charges, lets see, who were they from? in retaliation for something?. rhetorical tom as you know, but the point is you use disingenuous accusations to make a misleading point. That point alone Tom ,disqualifies you as someone with the least bit of integrity, and i would suggest anyone that is looking for honesty in opinion will not find it from your hand. Your girlie cutesy style trying to dress up your diatribe to make it look like you are some kind of professional something, worth something just doesn't work.
Tom, this may not make it on your page but just in case guilt slips in a bit. I would like to tell the people here that you are a liar, i posted a annomonous post it went on then was deleated . So all your bull shit about no censor ship is a lie.
My post called teachers that got notes written for them to go and protest and still get paid, moral criminals, i said they were unfit to teach children because they have no morals, scruples or integerity.
Why did you take my post down ?
The only post I've deleted in the last six months was by some pervert who made an obscene comment about the breasts of another commenter. Was that you? If it was, can you blame me for deleting you?
And if it was not, than you (or your computer) probably made an error. Seriously, I do not censor anybody.
My post that i claimed was taken down, it must have been!because i saw it posted!!! , it was there i read it!!!!, then i left, came back about 15 mineuts later and it was gone, so it was not me.
Then by all means put it up again. Another person made the same complaint recently. It might merely be a glitch in the system.
If you scroll down these messages you will find that some people have said the most horrible things about me or what I believe in and have not gotten deleted. Why would I want to single you out? Did you make sure to refresh your computer after posting?
Tom
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