The Consequences of Words
"Words have consequences."
-Congresswoman Gabrielle GiffordsHey! That reminds me: Whatever happened to Sarah Palin? The old gal has been awfully quiet for a change. Have you noticed that?
Gail Collins put it perfectly in the title of her column in the New York Times this morning:
"The Right To Bear Glocks?"
As of this hour, Democratic congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords clings to life after being shot during a scheduled meeting with her constituents on Saturday morning. The incident took place at a supermarket called, "Safeway". How ironic. At this moment she is in critical condition but is expected to survive. Keep your fingers crossed and your hands folded.
Six people were killed in the rampage, including Federal Judge John Roll, and a nine-year-old little girl named Christina Taylor-Green. Christina was there because she wanted to learn about government. She was born on September 11, 2001. I'm not making this up.
Within the last year-and-a-half, the extremist nitwits who now control the "party of Lincoln" have been kicking out the jams with their incendiary rhetoric: Michelle Bachmann telling an interviewer that she wanted the people of Minnesota "armed and dangerous" on the subject of taxes; Sharon Angle (Remember her?) talking about "second amendment remedies" with respect to politicians who dare to lean to the left. And how 'bout Larry Pratt - president of the Gun Owners of America? Here's a lovely little Prattism that was quoted in AlterNet this morning:
Remember Oklahoma City? Yeah, I do. And I also remember the Waco barbeque that your Attorney General gave us. Thanks a lot.... We're in a war. The other side knows they're at war, because they started it. They're comin' for our freedom, for our money, for our kids, for our property. They're comin' for everything because they're a bunch of socialists."
Wow! Medications, please. Here's another neat quote:
"Don't retreat....RELOAD!"
Who said that? I'll give you a hint: It was the same idiot who put up a map of the United States with the cross-hairs of a gun over Gabrielle Giffords' district. Isn't that nice?
We kno
w next-to-nothing about the assailant. The information that is available thus far is that he is a loner and a malcontent named Jared Lee Loughner. (The "Lee" part of his name immediately gave me pause - as in "Harvey Oswald" - too weird!) His is the textbook profile of the typical assassin. Hardly anything can be discerned about his politics. Liberals are implying that he is a right winger. Conservatives are saying just the opposite. He has become quite the hot potato, politically speaking that is. He once listed Mein Kamph (extreme right) and Das Kapital (extreme left) as two of his favorite books. Who can say what is really going through this confused and tormented mind? Of this there can be little doubt though: This guy is as nutty as a Nestles Crunch bar. Whatever his motives might have been, the language of violence and physical intimidation that has littered America's political landscape in recent years must be viewed as a possible source.
One of the tragedies of history is the fact that Lee Oswald never had the chance to testify in his own defense. I'm not one of these people who believe that the man was some kind of patsy who was framed for killing President Kennedy. I have no doubt that he was the one (and the only one) who pulled the trigger of the Manila Carcana rifle that ended JFK's life. But I have a theory:
Oswald wa
s an extreme left winger - the type of which no longer exists in this country: a committed Communist. I believe that had he been living in New York or Boston or Los Angeles - or even Atlanta - when the Jack Kennedy rolled into town, Oswald never would have killed the president. But he wasn't in any of those cities. He was living in Dallas, Texas. In November of 1963, Dallas was the bat-shit-crazy, right wing capital of the nation. Just a few weeks before the Kennedy shooting, UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson had been physically attacked and spat upon at an appearance in that city.
Lee Oswald's motive for killing John F. Kennedy was not fame and recognition. He wasn't John Hinckley or Mark David Chapman trying to add notoriety to a meaningless life. He vehemently denied having any part in the shooting.
"I DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY, NO SIR!"
That was his story and he was sticking to it! It was a story he didn't have to stick to it for very long, though. Forty-eight hours after he was busted, a single bullet from Jack Ruby's gun forever silenced Lee Harvey Oswald. What could possibly have been his motive?
Here's my theory: He killed Kennedy because he really believed he could get away with it. On the day of the murder, the Dallas Morning News ran an ad that accused JFK of treason. They even posted two photographs of the president that were positioned to look like mug shots. Nice! The atmosphere in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963 was so politically toxic, Oswald must have assumed that the police and Secret Service would immediately focus on one or more of that city's illustrious right wing crackpots.
The extremism of 1963 was pretty much isolated to a few southern cities. Forty-eight years later it's gone national. What happened in Arizona over the weekend is only the beginning. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but America's political discourse has been hijacked by half-wits and crazy people. Their spokespersons make their names by inflaming their clueless masses with the language of hate. That's their job. Then again, I'm not giving away any state secrets here, am I?
-Congresswoman Gabrielle GiffordsHey! That reminds me: Whatever happened to Sarah Palin? The old gal has been awfully quiet for a change. Have you noticed that?
Gail Collins put it perfectly in the title of her column in the New York Times this morning:
"The Right To Bear Glocks?"
As of this hour, Democratic congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords clings to life after being shot during a scheduled meeting with her constituents on Saturday morning. The incident took place at a supermarket called, "Safeway". How ironic. At this moment she is in critical condition but is expected to survive. Keep your fingers crossed and your hands folded.
Six people were killed in the rampage, including Federal Judge John Roll, and a nine-year-old little girl named Christina Taylor-Green. Christina was there because she wanted to learn about government. She was born on September 11, 2001. I'm not making this up.
Within the last year-and-a-half, the extremist nitwits who now control the "party of Lincoln" have been kicking out the jams with their incendiary rhetoric: Michelle Bachmann telling an interviewer that she wanted the people of Minnesota "armed and dangerous" on the subject of taxes; Sharon Angle (Remember her?) talking about "second amendment remedies" with respect to politicians who dare to lean to the left. And how 'bout Larry Pratt - president of the Gun Owners of America? Here's a lovely little Prattism that was quoted in AlterNet this morning:
Remember Oklahoma City? Yeah, I do. And I also remember the Waco barbeque that your Attorney General gave us. Thanks a lot.... We're in a war. The other side knows they're at war, because they started it. They're comin' for our freedom, for our money, for our kids, for our property. They're comin' for everything because they're a bunch of socialists."
Wow! Medications, please. Here's another neat quote:
"Don't retreat....RELOAD!"
Who said that? I'll give you a hint: It was the same idiot who put up a map of the United States with the cross-hairs of a gun over Gabrielle Giffords' district. Isn't that nice?
We kno
w next-to-nothing about the assailant. The information that is available thus far is that he is a loner and a malcontent named Jared Lee Loughner. (The "Lee" part of his name immediately gave me pause - as in "Harvey Oswald" - too weird!) His is the textbook profile of the typical assassin. Hardly anything can be discerned about his politics. Liberals are implying that he is a right winger. Conservatives are saying just the opposite. He has become quite the hot potato, politically speaking that is. He once listed Mein Kamph (extreme right) and Das Kapital (extreme left) as two of his favorite books. Who can say what is really going through this confused and tormented mind? Of this there can be little doubt though: This guy is as nutty as a Nestles Crunch bar. Whatever his motives might have been, the language of violence and physical intimidation that has littered America's political landscape in recent years must be viewed as a possible source.One of the tragedies of history is the fact that Lee Oswald never had the chance to testify in his own defense. I'm not one of these people who believe that the man was some kind of patsy who was framed for killing President Kennedy. I have no doubt that he was the one (and the only one) who pulled the trigger of the Manila Carcana rifle that ended JFK's life. But I have a theory:
Oswald wa
s an extreme left winger - the type of which no longer exists in this country: a committed Communist. I believe that had he been living in New York or Boston or Los Angeles - or even Atlanta - when the Jack Kennedy rolled into town, Oswald never would have killed the president. But he wasn't in any of those cities. He was living in Dallas, Texas. In November of 1963, Dallas was the bat-shit-crazy, right wing capital of the nation. Just a few weeks before the Kennedy shooting, UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson had been physically attacked and spat upon at an appearance in that city.Lee Oswald's motive for killing John F. Kennedy was not fame and recognition. He wasn't John Hinckley or Mark David Chapman trying to add notoriety to a meaningless life. He vehemently denied having any part in the shooting.
"I DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY, NO SIR!"
That was his story and he was sticking to it! It was a story he didn't have to stick to it for very long, though. Forty-eight hours after he was busted, a single bullet from Jack Ruby's gun forever silenced Lee Harvey Oswald. What could possibly have been his motive?
Here's my theory: He killed Kennedy because he really believed he could get away with it. On the day of the murder, the Dallas Morning News ran an ad that accused JFK of treason. They even posted two photographs of the president that were positioned to look like mug shots. Nice! The atmosphere in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963 was so politically toxic, Oswald must have assumed that the police and Secret Service would immediately focus on one or more of that city's illustrious right wing crackpots.
The extremism of 1963 was pretty much isolated to a few southern cities. Forty-eight years later it's gone national. What happened in Arizona over the weekend is only the beginning. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but America's political discourse has been hijacked by half-wits and crazy people. Their spokespersons make their names by inflaming their clueless masses with the language of hate. That's their job. Then again, I'm not giving away any state secrets here, am I?
There is also this unfortunate truism that cannot be ignored: America has the dumbest gun laws in the western hemisphere. Until this nasty situation is remedied (Don't hold your breath) these sorts of massacres are the new reality. Get used to it. The NRA and Larry Pratt love to talk about "freedom". Let me explain something to you: A people who live in mortal terror contemplating when and where the next massacre of innocents will take place may be many things - no argument there - "Free" they are not. Let's just stop kidding ourselves here and now, okay?
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
SUGGESTED READING:
Gail Collins' column this morning. Here's a link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10collins.htmlTom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
SUGGESTED READING:
Gail Collins' column this morning. Here's a link:
AFTERTHOUGHT, 6:37 PM:
Tom DeLay was sentenced to three years in prison today.
SUGGESTED READING:
Case Closed
by Gerald Posner
This is the best (and most convincing) book written-to-date regarding the assassination of President Kennedy.
posted by Tom Degan @ 7:11 AM
85 comments
85 Comments:
So, whose fault was it when Lincoln was assassinated? Kennedy? Come on, crazy people do crazy things. I don't like Palin, but I don't understand people blaming this shooting on her.
Thanks for posting this. No doubt conservatives, with the aid of the mainstream media they love to hate, will whitewash the fact that demonizing people and encouiraging the wingnuttery to get violent has its conseuences.
It's telling that someone would consider Lincoln, or the republican party of that time, conservative. It's a FACT that the person who assassinated Lincoln was deeply invested in the idea that government had overreached -- sound familiar? Right wing populism is nothing new. It's just as dangerous today as it was then.
You forgot this one, "If ballots don't work, bullets will." and how about a bumper sticker?
http://patriotshop.us/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=584
People are social animals, and the vast majority are conditioned to go with the flow. Very few actually think independently. Because of this phenomenon, Hitler was able to carry out his atrocities with the consent of a country of German lemmings.
Palin and her kin are mainstreaming insanity. Lemmings will follow. If words are the tools of political discourse, politicians should not be able to claim innocence when their words incite exactly the kind of action they are promoting.
Killing Mother, hey, where did you provide with your dung for brains proof the tea parties are racist? You did not.
By the way, this shooter, Loughner was a LIBERAL, did not like Palin, by the way, LIBERALS LIKE TOM DEGAN AND KILLING MOTHER MADE MOVIES ABOUT KILLING GEORGE BUSH.
BY THE WAY, DAILY KOS WHERE TOM DEGAN MAY INDEED BE MAJOR TOM, SOMEONE IS, PUBLISHED MAPS WITH BULLS EYES ON THIS CONGRESSMAN'S DISTRICT.
The Fort Hood shooter got that statement from "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun" Barack Obama about let's not jump to conclusions.
So, defo, tom degan and the idiotic name killing mother are much closer to this loughner character. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568 LET"S REPEAT THAT, THE HATE MONGERS KILLING MOTHER, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THAT IS A MENTALLY DERANGED NAME AND TOM DEGAN ARE MUCH CLOSER TO THIS LOUGHNER>
Daily KoS related to this character: http://www.wcbm.com/includes/news_items/1/news_items_more.php?id=4199§ion_id=1
TSVDP provides us with an exemplary demonstration of exactly the vitriolic discourse that is ruining our country. Without addressing any of the issues I discuss in my comment, he/she launches into a hateful, incomprehensible, gramamtically-atrocious diatribe, makes sweeping, unsubstantiated statements about the perpetrator of these heinous crimes and heaves personal insults against people he/she doesn't even know.
Thank you TSDVP for such an illuminating example.
http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/
Daily Kos had a HIT PIECE on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before, the Left is responsible. People like Tom Degan and the pschotic name hate mongerer killing mother are much more tied to the likes of loughner.
TSDVP:
I am not "Major Tom". I don't believe in pseudonyms. I only sign my name on all forums as "Tom Degan". I understand the need of others to be anonymous, but I, personally, don't believe in it. My motto is "Stand up and be counted."
Sincerely,
TOM DEGAN
For those too obtuse to see the metaphor, "killing Mother" is an environmental commentary and is most certainly not intended to be taken literally.
Tom, a good post and a very sad day for our country. It points out that rightly or wrongly, words do have consequences and for either party.
Several unfortunate things: Palin and others will refuse to accept any responsibility for their rhetoric and will play the victim instead.
Second, for everyone who is saddened by this, there will be someone on the other side of the fence gleefully jumping up and down and saying "yes, the damn liberal got what she deserved. We will show them".
I am sure the trolls will be out in force with their points of view telling us how wrong we are and how correct they are. To them, I have only one thing to say; write whatever you wish. For once I will not read any of the comments to this post and your thoughts will be completely wasted on me.
Just read your post, Tom, and this incident reminds me of one that happened about 5 years ago in my community. Two police officers were dispatched to arrest a man who was clearly dangerously mentally ill. When the officers arrived at the door, they were shot and killed by the mentally ill man. The man went on a killing spree after that, shooting several more innocent people in several more locations. I could go on, there are so many more examples, but, yes, we need to protect the general public from these dangerous individuals.
Great post as usual on unfortunately an all too familiar topic. I wonder because any medical treatment is protected under the as private if mental illness treatment would come up on a background check if the proper background check was run on Loughner or any other gun purchaser. I would doubt that the treatment would show up. There has to be some way that the privacy of an individual can be maintained while protecting the safety of the public.
Here in the Philadelphia area, we are all heart-broken of the passing of that precious 9 year old girl who was the granddaughter of the very popular employee and former manager of the Philadelphia Phillies, Dallas Green. Throughout the baseball world, sympathy and support is flooding the telephone lines and the internet sites for the Phillies in support of Mr. Green and his family. As one local columnist put it, today there are no rivalries in baseball...just human beings, friends and Americans who all feel the tragedy of the loss of this child.
My feeling is the loss of anybody like this is horrendous. A 9 year-old who was there to learn about government and had such a bright future ahead of her.
Everyone of us, I'm sure, has a daughter, granddaughter, niece or baby sister around that age. It leaves an empty place in this world when any child dies in such a terrible way.
Mary
(Aunt of 5 girls, Great-aunt to one little girl!)
"Of this there can be little doubt though: The language of violence and threats physical intimidation that has littered America's political landscape in recent years must be viewed as a probable source."
Then, we should ban the press and freedom of speech. We'd be safer.
FYI:
** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”
FYI:
Some Ed Schultz quotes
"You're damn right, Dick Cheney's heart's a political football, we ought to rip it out and kick it around and stuff it back in him"
"I want to stomp on Repub's heads". "Take them out in the street and gut them".
"Shove the republicans in a ditch"; "shove them in a dirt hole".
Do Words Have Consequences when they are from a liberal? Where is the DEMO/liberal outrage over these examples of hate speech?
Don't forget about the liberal puckerhole who is one of Obama's Czars who likes to quote Mao, "power comes form the barrel of a gun".
There are a lot of pussies who talk tough in Obama's administration but would piss their pants if they ever had to pick up a loaded gun.
Tom,
With your good graces, I have posted your final lines from this post on Muttering Jam. Couldn't have said it better.
Avram
As if it matters, Atlantic reports those were "Surveyors Marks" on Palin's map. "I just want to clarify again, and maybe it wasn't done on the record enough by us when this came out, the graphic, is just, it's basically -- we never, ever, ever intended it to be gunsights. It was simply crosshairs like you see on maps." - Atlantic website. Of course, how one would perceive it is another thing but perhaps they are saying this Nut had been planning this for a few years, did they say maybe he had even talked with her before this? God Bless That Little Girl and all the victims but that just tore my heart, the girl was born on 9/11.
Okay, I've posted twice and it's disappeared both times. Partly from memory, last try:
I see him more as "broken" than "left" or "right". His mush of beliefs
has too many checks in both columns. He comes across as less idealogue and more paranoid schizophrenic.
Does America's poisoned national dialogue help? No. Is it causal in this case? I doubt it very much.
...
That out of the way, in no way take what I said as making equivalence between Left and Right rhetoric. While there are equivalents, I'm sure, there's no equivalence. The Right side holds a virtual monopoly on eliminationalist rhetoric. The Left, such as it is, either watched Maddow or the Daily Show and gets a little annoyed, or lights up the bong and digs out the acoustic guitar.
...
Now with that out of the way, how messed up is a country where a mentally ill person can buy a pistol, much less one with a high capacity magazine?
Harley A.
"Then, we should ban the press and freedom of speech. We'd be safer."
Now you're just being ridiculous. The problem is more that few call out such rhetoric, and a bunch of those that do say "Well, both sides do it" (when one side practically runs on it).
Browns44 "Do Words Have Consequences when they are from a liberal? Where is the DEMO/liberal outrage over these examples of hate speech?"
Ed Schultz is about the worst I've seen, and at his worst he's a fraction of a Limbaugh's three hours a day of making sure that white men are angry while eating lunch. "Mad as heck" about the rich keeping the temporary tax cuts (after doing so little with them for the previous eight years) is not advocating sedition because The People didn't vote McCain.
Also, there's a difference between heated rhetoric and amping up the rubes to take up their guns (before Obama, who has made no move to take them away. Indeed, you can run around armed in national parks now) and "take back our country" with "Second Amendment solutions" if the Dems pass, of all things, Healthcare Reform.
The Left is generally "The Right is wrong. Here are the actual numbers."
The Left goes to Stewart's rally, confused as to whether it's meant ironically or not, the Right rallies with "The tree of liberty...", Obama-Hitler and "It's not loaded, this time" placards.
The Right screams "SOCIALISM!" or "Secret Muslim atheist usurper Black Panthers Marxism!" when, well, the Dems do, or talk about doing, or think about doing, or accused of talking about thinking about doing, anything.
Anonymous "Don't forget about the liberal puckerhole who is one of Obama's Czars who likes to quote Mao, 'power comes form the barrel of a gun'."
Ron Bloom? Instead of running from Beck to here, try a less edited version, then get back to us.
Anonymous "As if it matters, Atlantic reports those were "Surveyors Marks" on Palin's map"
Sure they were. That's the only thing that makes sense, putting something few understand to represent targets.
"While there are equivalents, I'm sure, there's no equivalence. The Right side holds a virtual monopoly on eliminationalist rhetoric"
That is your opinion as is the rest of your post Modusoperandi. Thanks for sharing and by doing so allow the difference between the liberal and conservative world view. (As a side note, as more evidence of liberal hate speech is exposed I am sure that the headline will become something like this "both sides are bad but the Conservatives side is much much worse.")
All animals are equal, just some are more equal. Sounds about right.
How about this idea, it it's wrong for one it's wrong for all? If it's wrong for Loughner, then it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer. No excuses, put an end to the "well maybe the killer was misunderstood and we need to find out what was bugging him" concept. If it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer it's wrong for the D.C.Sniper.
If this becomes the standard then those who printed and sold bumper stickers calling for the killing of a President, who made a movie calling for the same, who called for the aborting of Palin, will be guilty of ensighting left wing nut balls to violence.
However, by your own words this is something your choose to not see or even understand, so deep is your root of hate and anger towards those you disagree with.
In short, maybe you cant see this or worse yet maybe you can and believe it, but you are saying is "the ends justifies the means" when it is a liberal cause, but it doesn't if it is a non liberal cause.
Loughner appears to be an atheist, burning a flag in a video, if anything he is more left wing. Doh!
Tom, I just don't know what to say to people like TSVDP when they take Obama's words out of context and use them to justify incendiary words from the right fringe. We have all seen the guns worn at Tea Party rallys and seen the signs of hate. The right may try to hide from their vitriol, but the evidence is clear.
By the way, if those Obama quotes are the best they can do then the right loses this argument hands down. I suspect he/she got the quotes from the internet where someone had to really dig to find the kind of hate speech from the left that would begin to compare to the vicious rants that incite violence from the right on a daily basis.
I have posted on this today.
Browns44, do you do any research, or do you just copy & paste that list (which a googling for the "ass kicking" one comes up with a bunch of that very list)?
Example, ** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”. In context.
Example, ** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“. In context":
BAIER: Finally tonight, the president was taking a lot of heat from people like James Carville, Spike Lee, Frank Rich, for not emoting enough about the Gulf oil disaster. But now there is reaction to his reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I don't sit around just talking to experts because this is a college seminar. We talk to these folk because they potentially have the best answers "so I know whose ass to kick.
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": Who should receive the brunt of the president's size 12 Air Jordans?
OBAMA: I take responsibility. It is my job to make sure that everything is done to shut this down.
STEWART: He has to kick his own ass.
Browns44 "Thanks for sharing and by doing so allow the difference between the liberal and conservative world view."
I fail to see how my double-checking things and your failing to do so in any way reflects poorly on me.
"While there are equivalents, I'm sure, there's no equivalence. The Right side holds a virtual monopoly on eliminationalist rhetoric"
That is your opinion as is the rest of your post Modusoperandi. Thanks for sharing and by doing so allow the difference between the liberal and conservative world view. (As a side note, as more evidence of liberal hate speech is exposed I am sure that the headline will become something like this "both sides are bad but the Conservatives side is much much worse.")
All animals are equal, just some are more equal. Sounds about right.
How about this idea, it it's wrong for one it's wrong for all? If it's wrong for Loughner, then it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer. No excuses, put an end to the "well maybe the killer was misunderstood and we need to find out what was bugging him" concept. If it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer it's wrong for the D.C.Sniper.
If this becomes the standard then those who printed and sold bumper stickers calling for the killing of a President, who made a movie calling for the same, who called for the aborting of Palin, will be guilty of ensighting left wing nut balls to violence.
However, by your own words this is something your choose to not see or even understand, so deep is your root of hate and anger towards those you disagree with.
In short, maybe you cant see this or worse yet maybe you can and believe it, but you are saying is "the ends justifies the means" when it is a liberal cause, but it doesn't if it is a non liberal".
Modusoperandi,
Try working on this before you attempt to deflect because you cantor wont answer the questions. points made within.
MO -
Yes, I was being ridiculous. That was by design. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
I read a concise statement by an anonymous "opinion line" poster to the local newspaper that really summed it up I thought: "We are so into blame that we cannot conceive of any other method of discourse."
That sums up the modern American psyche - who can I blame for everything in life that I don't like?
As an ex-psych nurse, I would say to you that mentally ill people are very prone to the words that people put out to the world...political or religious, and they are incited to violence because of it....we have seen it over and over in our history. When will we learn not to incure the wrath of those less fortunate or prone to listen to the craziness of what has become known as 'news' on our tv? Your words are heard and acted upon, despite the intention.....shame on those that have done it!
Chris,
Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Are you saying that a sign carried by a protester and shown on TV on a news program that reads "Kill _ _ _ _ _ _, bomb his house!" could incite violence?
What about the hanging of that person in effigy by the same media? Could that incite violence as well?
"The primary criticism I have with right wing groups is their universal refusal to hear uncomfortable truths."
Just maybe if the left addressed the issues presented to them by the right instead of deflecting them, their could be some exchange of ideas.
Since no one has answered or responded to the issues/points I made in this post, I'm going to put it here again.
"While there are equivalents, I'm sure, there's no equivalence. The Right side holds a virtual monopoly on eliminationalist rhetoric"
That is your opinion as is the rest of your post Modusoperandi. Thanks for sharing and by doing so allow the difference between the liberal and conservative world view. (As a side note, as more evidence of liberal hate speech is exposed I am sure that the headline will become something like this "both sides are bad but the Conservatives side is much much worse.")
All animals are equal, just some are more equal. Sounds about right.
How about this idea, it it's wrong for one it's wrong for all? If it's wrong for Loughner, then it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer. No excuses, put an end to the "well maybe the killer was misunderstood and we need to find out what was bugging him" concept. If it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer it's wrong for the D.C.Sniper.
If this becomes the standard then those who printed and sold bumper stickers calling for the killing of a President, who made a movie calling for the same, who called for the aborting of Palin, will be guilty of ensighting left wing nut balls to violence.
However, by your own words this is something your choose to not see or even understand, so deep is your root of hate and anger towards those you disagree with.
In short, maybe you cant see this or worse yet maybe you can and believe it, but you are saying is "the ends justifies the means" when it is a liberal cause, but it doesn't if it is a non liberal cause.
Palin will be the next President, the BLOOD LIBEL of the Left will backfire, she is trashed by the immoral left as often as they can and now we see the American left wishes to censor people though they have run the media for years, they must responsible for all the bad things that happened in America all the time. American Liberalism has brought genocide to the USA. Let's not forget, Obama's mentor Bill Ayers even dedicated his book to Sirhan Sirhan. You can tell who the troublemakers are but this blood libel will backfire on the spineless left. Loughner, Atheist, Loughner Flag Burner, sounds more leftist.
TSVDP so the words against Palin are a left wing conspiracy? Well I have to tell you on the other side of the world when the press isnt particulary left wing she is considered the greatest joke the US have gifted to the world and if she becomes the next President which I sincerely doubt the world will laugh at the stupidity it would take to elect such an ignorant woman. Good luck with your fantasy world!
Den from Oz
My comment keeps disappearing. I've posted it (or some variant of it) at least five times in the last day, but when I come back and refresh the page, it's gone. It's driven me existentialist.
Now, where's my Camus?
"Hey! That reminds me: Whatever happened to Sarah Palin? The old gal has been awfully quiet for a change. Have you noticed that?"
Thats because if you liberal bufoons stopped responding to her comments she would go away. She doesn't have what it takes to be in the White House but she has more than the smooth talking TOTAL BULLSHIT ARTIST we have now.
Modusoperandi, even Tom has gotten sick of your long winded empty rants and is deleting them!
Modusoperandi
I am the only one who can delete a comment other than the author of that comment. I am not deleting them. It must be a problem with your computer.
It says "Your comment has been saved.
It may take a moment for your comment to appear on the site at the original post."
Then it's there.
Then it's gone.
Browns44 "That is your opinion as is the rest of your post Modusoperandi."
The preponderance of evidence continues to be on my side. The majority of, and repetition of, and extremity of, inflammatory rhetoric is not coming from the Left.
"Thanks for sharing and by doing so allow the difference between the liberal and conservative world view."
And thanks for again showing the same (beings as I researched your copy 'n' paste, and you appear to have done no research at all. Nor does it appear that you even double-checked my double-checking).
Browns44 "How about this idea, it it's wrong for one it's wrong for all?"
Done. Your turn. Good luck, the uphill battle is yours.
"If it's wrong for Loughner, then it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer. No excuses, put an end to the 'Well maybe the killer was misunderstood and we need to find out what was bugging him' concept. If it's wrong for the Ft. Hood killer it's wrong for the D.C.Sniper."
Odd. You're arguing with the liberal who exists in your head. I don't remember apologizing for him because he's mentally ill.
"If this becomes the standard then those who printed and sold bumper stickers calling for the killing of a President..." "...who made a movie calling for the same..." "...who called for the aborting of Palin..."
{citation needed}
Note: for all three I'm guessing that if you provide cites:
1. Those involved are few in number and/or marginal figures.
2. Um. That's it, really.
"...will be guilty of ensighting left wing nut balls to violence."
This isn't Europe. Our leftwing's (such as it is) stuck in hipster mode. The closest they get to being incited is working more for less pay. Same as everybody else, really, but nobody's telling them to run for their guns when the other Tribe wins an election.
Oh, some Hollywood types said they'd move to Canada if Dubya won in 2004. They couldn't even pull that off.
"However, by your own words this is something your choose to not see or even understand, so deep is your root of hate and anger towards those you disagree with."
That you interpret my willingness to engage in dialogue with you, put far more work and thought in to it than you do, and deliver it irreverently as "hate and anger towards those [I] disagree with" reflects, I think, more on your psyche than it does on mine.
"In short, maybe you cant see this or worse yet maybe you can and believe it, but you are saying is 'the ends justifies the means' when it is a liberal cause, but it doesn't if it is a non liberal."
I am? Golly. I really am a monster for pointing out, again, that there is no equivalence. When gun shows have liberal hunting permits that are hunting permits for liberals rather than hunting permits for liberals you might have a point. (Note, too, the search words I used. To see if there's an equivalence. Which there isn't).
Modusoperandi
Maybe the reason you were unable to get your post to "stick" is best explained by the comments contained there within. I have to understand that your belief that the left has never been guilty of hate speech is due to your lack of investigation.
This from your post is what I am talking about.
"The preponderance of evidence continues to be on my side. The majority of, and repetition of, and extremity of, inflammatory rhetoric is not coming from the Left."
I am going to ask you to hold your nose and go to this link:
michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/
There you will see hate speech from the left that you seem unable to find on your own. Guess you didn't search in the right places?
This may be uncomfortable for you for a lot of reasons, but in the endless search for truth, I would like to think you would leave no stone unturned, regardless of where the stone lies.
Browns44 "I am going to ask you to hold your nose and go to this link:"
*"Flashback — pointing a fake gun at the head of a Sarah Palin likeness sitting next to a cardboard cutout of her daughter in a museum display:"
Wow, an image on Getty Image.
*"Flashback — trendy “ABORT Sarah Palin” stickers:"
Wow, grafiti done by a nobody.
*"Flashback — Palin-hating artwork designating her an “M.I.L.P.” (Mother I’d Like to Punch). Hat tip: Edge of Forever:"
Wow, a nobody on a nobody website.
*"Flashback — Madonna bashing Sarah Palin and shrieking 'I will kick her ass:'"
Wow, Madonna. (At worst that makes her equivalent to the elder George Bush, although he used the national "we")
*"And here [Sandra Bernhard] defending her Palin-will-get-gang-raped joke."
That one is bad. (Also, she didn't get a show on AM talkradio out of it. She got fired)
*"Flashback — Why Sarah Palin Incites Near-Violent Rage In Normally Reasonable Women."
Did you read that link? I'm not a woman, but that does seem to explain (in part and at the time) why she rubs some women so very the wrong way.
Do you want me to go on, or can you continue this yourself?
Browns44 and Modusoperandi, why don't the two of you exchange email addresses to carry on your debate and stop boring the rest of us to death?
Modusoperandi,
please take your medication and give it some time to work before posting.
Bad Ass Biker "Browns44 and Modusoperandi, why don't the two of you exchange email addresses to carry on your debate and stop boring the rest of us to death?"
Feel free not to add anything to the conversation.
Feel free not to read our posts.
Anonymous "Modusoperandi, please take your medication and give it some time to work before posting."
You sure told me. I guess that refutes everything I said.
Modusoperandi:
"Feel free not to add anything to the conversation."
There is no conversation here. You and Browns44 simply hurl insults and inanities at one another like little boys throwing rocks on the school ground.
Anonymous, feel free to chime in with superior information, then. Wow us with your intellect.
Every day in America around eighty people are killed by firearms...today another eighty..., next week, six hundred more. What`s so special about these , what about the hundred or so civilians that were killed last week by US drones in Pakistan...don`t they matter to you Tom???
Who gives a rats` ass, eh, about just one more shooting... guns everywhere, people get shot... either shut the gun factories and shops and get peaceful, or just keep killing.
The US is/was obsessed with guns, killing and global domination, until they are defeated and shamed, the folly of weaponised life will never be done.
Tom: Very convenient how you listed Mein Kampf as one of his favorite books, but neglected to mention Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto. There's some real popular right-wing reading there, huh? And by the way, the author of Mein Kampf was the last leader of the National SOCIALIST German Worker's Party. So spin it if you want, But I'm inclined to believe that mental illness was his primary motivation. If you want to attribute his actions to a particular political leaning, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
I did mention Marx's Communist Manifesto, Kevin. "Das Kapital". That's what it's called.
And as far as Mein Kampf is concerned, are you implying that the Nazis were Liberals? Seriously you have to stop listening to Glenn Beck. I wrote about this very subject almost a year ago:
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2010/02/adolf-hitler-fightin-liberal.html
The "Socialism" of Hitler and the Nazis and that of the British Socialist Party (for example) were two entirely different things.
Beck is lying to you, Kevin.
All the best,
Tom Degan
kevin said...
"And by the way, the author of Mein Kampf was the last leader of the National SOCIALIST German Worker's Party."
If you think National Socialism in the form of the Nazi party is equivalent to the 'socialism' the teabaggers have been whining about, you're either sadly misinformed, intentionally ignorant, or just mentally challenged. Or maybe all three.
National Socialism is the epitome of far right wing fascism.
Sorry Tom, but you missed the mark completely. I've never watched a full episode of Beck's show, I've seen a few minutes of it about a half-dozen times. I don't even watch TV lately, I get my news from the local papers and online, and there I visit CNN far more often than Fox News.
I can't be pigeonholed by current American political standards - either Left or Right. I'm pro-abortion rights, pro-gun rights, opposed to the war on drugs and in favor of better border security (something Gabrielle Giffords supports, too.)
I'm sorry I missed your mention of "Das Kapital", but it was pretty clear from the tone of the blog that you're trying to lay the blame for this incident in the lap of the right-wingers.
And as for the Nazis being Liberals, well, certainly not in the standard view that American Liberals have of themselves. The Nazis did however claim that there was an urgent need to limit individual freedom for the greater good of the nation, a view shared by socialists of every persuasion. Also something that many modern American Liberals support wholeheartedly, especially after a tragedy like this. Whether it be the First or Second amendment, there are a lot of people out there clamoring for more government control because of this incident. The road to totalitarianism is paved with good intentions.
And BTW, Bill_in_DE, by using the term "teabaggers", you've just proven yourself to be all three.
Ha Ha, there are no nuts in a nestle's crunch bar, the crunchy bits are rice.
But sluriously, it's astounding that the right wingers are actually trying to hold the line that the leftys are just as violent/vitriolic while simultaneously chiding us as whimpy wine sippers. Yeah, we fight for healthy food and solar power and decent schools in poor districts. They fight for armor piercing exploding bullets and then threaten second amendment cures when democracy doesn't go their way.
Lefties are more filled with hate speech and violent actions, the difference is the media does not report it. See this link:
michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/
If cross hairs on a map caused the nut job to do what he did, what impact do you think the examples shown on that link caused him? None?
Why cause it is liberals showing outrage and that's ok and justified?
PLEASE!
Explain this, if Conservatives are all about being anti government, explain what Mr. Obama's buddy Bill Ayers was all about in his terrorist group the Underground Weather Men? And now he meets with Mr. Obama.
If cross hairs on a map that we have no evidence that the nut job killer ever saw could have effected him, can we say we know he attended school and that by doing so he was influenced by what and he was taught there?
"Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in Saturday’s Arizona shooting, attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a liberal group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama, World News Dailey has learned.
The group, Small Schools Workshop, has been led by a former top communist activist who is an associate of Ayers. Obama provided the group with funds in the 1990s when he worked at an education reform group alongside Ayers."
We have no proof that he ever saw cross hairs, or listened to talk radio, but we know without a doubt that he attended high school. Care to draw the same conclusions?
Didn't think so.
kevin said...
"And BTW, Bill_in_DE, by using the term "teabaggers", you've just proven yourself to be all three."
Bad news, corky: when the teabagger stupidity started, THEY were the ones proclaiming 'It's time to tea bag Washington"
They chose to use the word as a verb, until someone stopped laughing at them long enough to explain why they were being laughed at, so you don't get to pretend at this late date it's the fault of people who still think they're a joke.
A democrat map
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/205769.php
Liberal dont only use violent language, the perform and incite it.
Isnt president jug ears friends with Bill Ayers?
Browns44, how come the Right whines and moans about Obama and his casual proximity to Ayers? By all accounts, Ayers is reformed, he was in the Weather Underground a solid forty years ago, and the only reason he didn't go to jail was COINTELPRO. Obama was nine at the time.
Also, how come the Right never mentions the things Obama is actually doing wrong, like abusing State Secrets Privilege beyond even what his predecessor did? Are they for Law & Order, or are they for it only when it's convenient? If they love the Constitution, why the push to ignore the parts that, if followed, would make the us look bad? There's nothing in Article one that says "Habeas corpus doesn't apply when the State would be embarrassed upon having its zeal and incompetence exposed". The mush of Healthcare Reform isn't tyranny. An unaccountable Executive is.
Lastly, would you like me to go through more of the faux-outrage on that Malkin link, or are you starting to see that it's a red herring?
MO
Does this sound like a reformed terrorist?
New York Times
No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen
By DINITIA SMITH
Published: September 11, 2001
* Sign In to E-Mail
* Print
* Single-Page
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago.
boltok, you're not even trying. (I should note that I disagree with the WU's methods, lest I be painted with the Broad Brush)
Some famous liberals:
Dan White (milk)
Joe Stack
Amy Bishop
Ted Kaczynksi
Oswald
James Earl Ray
Sirhan Sirhan
Joseph Stack
Bill and Bernadine
MO, Im not trying that hard
You want another creditable democrat spreading hate and violence towards Conservatives?
Follow this link to watch creditable Barney Frank on t.v.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2KBNVFXXd0&feature=player_embedded
MO
Joe Biden; " If I hear one more Republican tell me about balancing the budget, I am going to strangle them"
Democrat Paul Kanjorski; about then Florida gubernatorial candidate Rick Scott. "They ought to have him and shoot him, put him against the wall and SHOOT him"
Senator Claire McCaskill Democrat Mo. " it really is time for Americans to take up pitchforks!
Notice anything similar about these leaders ? Why yes, they are NOT Tea Party members, Republicans, or conservative radio talk show hosts.
As for the link I provided you earlier, are you claiming the photos and examples sited there within are fake? Or just hard for you to believe that are a truth representation of hate from the left?
This comment has been removed by the author.
(corrected for grammar and spelling)
Browns44 "You want another creditable democrat spreading hate and violence towards Conservatives? Follow this link to watch creditable Barney Frank on t.v."
How? His comment (itself commenting on commenters' comments on a story on the Huffington Post) was "They said the bomb was wasted."
Also, Breitbart isn't a journalist, he's a hatchet artist. If you're listening to him (the vid came from here), you're only willfully ignorant, you're an irredeemable asshole. There. I said it. It's better that you should hear it from me, now, then from others in the future.
"As for the link I provided you earlier, are you claiming the photos and examples sited there within are fake?"
Did I say they (at least the ones I commented on) were fake? Did I even imply it? No. My statements, as stated, stand.
Of course, I fix my comment, then find another error. Oh, well.
MO
Excuse me, but the link was to youtube and was a clip form the Bill Maher show. What is your issue about it's source? Would you beleive it if it came from the Daily Koz?
You know, this is typical liberal reaction to bad news about their side, to attack the source of the news, and to not respond to the news itself. Name calling is their favorite method to get the news bearer off track and to start to defend their self instead of continuing the debate.
So I'm an asshole, whats your problem with that? I thought liberalism was all about diversity?
Browns44 "MO Excuse me, but the link was to youtube and was a clip form the Bill Maher show."
The clip was on youtube via Breitbart.
What is your issue about it's source?"
ACORN. Shirley Sherrod. "Fool me once..." and all.
In the very least, that "Breitbart TV" thing at the beginning should've set your spidey-sense a'tingling and caused you to pay extra close attention and/or do further research. In the second very least, that thing that Frank said wasn't Frank saying what Frank said. Again, it was Frank saying what a commenter on a story on the Huff Post said.
"Would you beleive it if it came from the Daily Koz?"
I don't know. Is DailyKos any good? Do they they set people up? Do they edit video to make it appear something other than what happened happened? Do they overdub audio to further the illusion? Do they cut clips out of context? That's Breitbart's shtick.
"You know, this is typical liberal reaction to bad news about their side, to attack the source of the news, and to not respond to the news itself."
I didn't attack the source instead of respond. I both responded (Frank didn't say what Breitbart said Frank said) and pointed out that is par for the course for Breitbart. He is a hatchet artist. That's what he does.
And if your were unaware of Breitbart, I must apologize for my earlier comment towards you (his name was mentioned in the ACORN conflagration enough that I figured you couldn't not know of him). If so, now that you're aware of him and his "style" I trust you won't make the same mistake again.
General Introduction to Psychoanalysis
Sigmund Freud
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"
Guys, the ping-pong of web links to stupid stuff politicians say isn't going anywhere. The guy could have read "The Joy of Cooking" and found justification for what he wanted to do. He could have been watching a "Leave It to Beaver" marathon and been inspired. He has issues. If you'll notice, there's a whole bunch of folks, like hundreds of millions, who didn't shoot anyone that day.
Oh and, for those scoring at home, this one took 4 replies to get to a Hitler reference. I'm keeping track - it's fascinating how applicable Hitler is to most every discussion.
boltok "General Introduction to Psychoanalysis Sigmund Freud 'A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity'"
Who's scared of weapons? I've shot bolt-action .22 & 7.62mm, 9mm pistol, FN FAL, M16 & FN Minimi.
The issues I've seen are more the size of the magazine than the pistol, and the mental state of the purchaser than the weapon purchased.
Harley A. "I'm keeping track - it's fascinating how applicable Hitler is to most every discussion."
Do you know who else noticed the same thing? That's right: Hitler.
MO
Are you ex military?
With that list of weapons (to some extent the 7.62mm bolt action & 9mm pistol, but especially the last three), could I be anything but?
MO, I'm suprised, I thought the military was good at beating the nonsense out of people ;)
I have competition experience with the WWII Garand, but its hard to get the correct ammunition for that gun. Was thinking about getting the Springfield M1A which is a very similar rifle in 308. Was looking at FNFAL if I want to save $$$ versus the M1A.
M24?
92FS?
Now who is the Forgotten Man? He is the simple, honest laborer, ready to earn his living by productive work. We pass him by because he is independent, self-supporting, and asks no favors. He does not appeal to the emotions or excite the sentiments. He only wants to make a contract and fulfill it, with respect on both sides and favor on neither side. He must get his living out of the capital of the country. The larger the capital is, the better living he can get. Every particle of capital which is wasted on the vicious, the idle, and the shiftless is so much taken from the capital available to reward the independent and productive laborer. But we stand with our backs to the independent and productive laborer all the time.
Every man is bound to take care of himself and his family and to do his share in the work of society. It is totally false that one who has done so is bound to bear the care and charge of those who are wretched because they have not done so. The silly popular notion is that the beggars live at the expense of the rich, but the truth is that those who eat and produce not, live at the expense of those who labor and produce.
Slightly Off topic: I note during the NFL playoff games there is a car/SUV/Truck commercial and they play Simon and Garfunkel's "The only living boy in New York", "Tom get your plane on time", the commercial has a slightly altered version so many people would not know that it is the same song right off. Jets play tomorrow, I wish them well as I have one friend from NY but you really can't expect them win but you know, that's why they play the game. Thanks Tom also for commenting on what you thought was a good book on the JFK assassination. Lots of crazy stuff going on, this Fuller guy who survived in Tuscon now got arrested, all hyped up about the whole matter. "Tom, get your plane right on time.
I know you've been eager to fly now.
Hey let your honesty shine, shine, shine now
Da-n-da-da-n-da-da-n-da-da
Like it shines on me
The only living boy in New York,
The only living boy in New York. ... Here I am ... Here I am" Good song. Some teams back to football, I've got quite a few I like after my favorite team, with Aaron Rodgers, I like these Packers, I always like the Lions, usually the Ravens and Jets are okay as a passive fan.
I come to this post late, because I have been dumbstruck for a week. Or posting myself. Or frantically trying to learn something of my friend who was shot that day.
Paranoid schizophrenia will create its twisted narratives out of something, regardless, but the precise objects of its obsessions will always be dictated by the culture its primary victim is born to. And that makes its secondary victims very, very specific.
Nance: Yes, also that kind of points how music has influenced people, it influences us all just about but probably not in a mega-negative way but apparently this Loughner guy knew of some song by Drowning Pool called 'Let the bodies hit the floor', does anyone here know of this and back in the day, AC/DC got sued by a family when the kid committed suicide, maybe Ozzie got sued too, I'm not too familiar with the night stalker Richard Ramirez but that 'Night Stalker' I think is a song by AC/DC as well, or something like that.
OMG, Tom, great posting and oh so true. I have to say though reading the comments is like falling down Alice's rabbit hole. Let me get this straight, the trolls are saying that this kid is a Liberal who tried to assassinate a Liberal due to listening to liberal rhetoric? This is what we get with 10 years of NCLB education! A bunch of nincompoops incapable of critical thinking. May I suggest that if you can't even make sense, just sit down and stfu. Enough said.
I do look forward to your next rant, Tom.
Wendy B.
Thank you kindly, Wendy B!
We do live in weird times, do we not? This evening I had the idea that this might really be the dawn of the American apocalypse. Maybe I'm wrong. I surely hope I am.
Thanks TSVDP, It wasn't AC/DC that got sued it was Judas Priest. The song was called 'Better By You Better Than Me' Also the AC/DC song you're thinking of is 'Night Prowler' not 'Night Stalker'
Unfortunately, Tom, your thoughts this evening are mine too. I'm fairly positive the Conservatives will do all they can to block raising the debt ceiling which we are at the doorstep of reaching. In this fragile economy, it will throw us into an economic tailspin. If that happens, new jobs will not be created as promised. The exact opposite will occur as we default on paying government service providers.
Even Representative Steven LaTouritte (R, Ohio) said in Ohio almost everybody says, "oh, you've got to cut spending", but then they say, "oh, I didn't know you meant my spending." He believes there's going to be a lot of that heard from people who elected all these freshmen to Congress this term. I do too, but I believe the right-wing rhetoric will continue to hoodwink this population that it's the Democrats who did it, not them.
My family waits uneasily for the upcoming cuts to Social Security and Medicare. Our father receives just enough to cover his assisted living center costs with his Social Security, Carpenters pension, and Veterans benefits. We are already helping to pay for everything else. This is how we treat our elders who fought for our country, then worked hard and paid taxes over their lifetimes. It is very sad indeed.
Wendy B.
Tom,
Hate to come off like a paranoid left-winger (even though I kind of am), but I have to chide you for recommending Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" in defense of the lone gunman theory. Posner's got some pretty serious ties to the CIA and has been outed as a hack plagiarist so he's not exactly to be trusted. If I were you, I'd be steering my readers toward Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History" or Norman Mailer's "Oswald: An American Mystery." No intelligence links that I know about with those guys (except in the literal sense!)
-Another Lone Nut
...Also, it's worth noting that several assassination witnesses that Posner claimed to have interviewed for his book (most notably James Teague), came forward and stated that they never met or spoke to Posner.
-Another Lone Nut
If cross hairs on a map caused the nut job to do what he did, what impact do you think the examples shown on that link caused him? None?
Why cause it is liberals showing outrage and that's ok and justified?
PLEASE!
usagamezone.blogspot.com
Post a Comment
<< Home