Tuesday, January 25, 2011

The Fading Progressive Voice

I'm going to miss Keith Olbermann. I didn't watch Friday night's program because I went to bed earlier than usual. As a habit, if I miss one of his broadcasts I will watch an early-morning rerun of it. That wasn't an option this time. Every Friday night at the stroke of midnight, MSNBC goes into stupid mode with their idiotic exploitation documentaries. On the weekend it becomes worse than FOX Noise (if that's even possible). I only found out about Keith's departure from the network late Saturday morning. Although this news saddened me, I was hardly surprised. Given his courageous stand on the most controversial issues of the times in which we live, it's a miracle he lasted as long as he did.

I was ecstatic eight years ago when Olbermann returned to MSNBC after a hiatus of several years. Back in the nineties, during the height of the Clinton Impeachment/persecution, he was one of the very few voices of reason on the mainstream television airwaves; an oasis of enlightenment - and humor??? Lord, the man was funny! Lenny Bruce meets Edward R. Murrow.

We don't know the reason for his leaving. Mountains of speculation have been offered, but nothing is yet confirmed. Was he forced out by management because of the imminent merger with Comcast? Was it a despute over money? Or was he simply burned out? His beloved father died last year and it was obvious that his long illness took an emotional toll on the son. Been there. Done that. Who can say for sure why he is leaving. This much is certain though: The few left-of-center voices crying out in the wilderness are rapidly diminishing. This is not a good thing for our national political dialogue. How's that for understatement?

Truth be told, I never trusted MSNBC's image as an island of progressive reason in the ocean of right wing foolishness that the American airwaves have become in the last thirty years. The only reason they decided to "turn left" was simply because in the beginning they tried to outfox Fox - and they failed miserably at it. Some of their early programming was beyond absurd. Have you forgotten "Watch It with Laura Ingraham" or "Alan Keyes is Making Sense"? Hats off to you if you have. I've spent the last decade trying to forget them and - so help me Father Coughlin - I can't. They even, very early on, gave a half an hour each w
eek to Michael Weiner Savage! Even Fox never stooped that low!

No, they we
re losing their shirts trying to position themselves as Fox Lite. They turned to the progressives out of sheer desperation. They timidly dipped their tiny little toes into the waters of Liberalism in 2002 with the Phil Donahue Show. Finally they had a ratings winner! I still have two installments of that program on videotape, and I can assure you that it was excellent. There was only one slight problem: General Electric - which owns MSNBC - which is a member-in-good-standing of the Military Industrial Complex - didn't care for the fact that old Phil wasn't particularly gun-ho over the Bush Mob's plan to illegally invade the sovereign nation of Iraq; in fact he was dead-set against it - and he made no secret of his displeasure in the interviews he gave. Donahue was out in the street before he knew what hit him. MSNBC's ratings once again plummeted into the toilet.

Eventually, the geniuses at the network realized they had no choice: They couldn't beat FOX at their own game so they decided to counter attack: BRING ON THE LEFTIES!

Chris M
atthews has been there from the beginning. Matthews leans slightly to the left and is just about the smartest commentator out there. But astute as he is, they needed more. What they needed was a heavy-hitting, unapologetic L.I.B.E.R.A.L. The kind of person who would give Grover Norquest the heebie jeebies. That's where our man Olbermann came in. The guy was made-to-order for people like me who were pining for an authentic, progressive voice who wasn't merely broadcasting from an obscure, 1000 watt AM radio station in Burlington, Vermont (Nothing against obscure, 1000 watt AM radio stations in Burlington, Vermont mind you). We wanted - we fucking needed - a Liberal knight in shining armor. Enter Keith Olbermann.

He did the job for eight years and he did it brilliantly, an
d with a flair for the visual that Ernie Kovacs would have envied. He spoke truth to power (something a good journalist is supposed to do after all) and in doing so, he pissed off a lot of really powerful people. Also, there was nothing that could drive the right wing blogosphere as apoplectic as the very mention of the words "Keith Olbermann". He was (and is) our champion.

When Keith left MSNBC in the late nineties I thought that he was gone forever, but in 2003 he was back and better than ever. Maybe we'll see him again - or hear him. There's always radio. Whatever the venue, we need Keith Olbermann like a tonic

I'll be drinking an old fashioned Irish toast to you tonight, Keith! I'm gonna miss
The Worst Persons in the World and Oddball and Fridays with Thurber. The tone of your voice in the Special Comments segment could get just a tad shrill at times, but who could blame you? George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were running the county. You should read some of the stuff I wrote while they were driving this once-great nation into the dirt! It was hard not to lose control of one's composure with those two hideous bastards running the country....See? There I go again!

Since the demolition of the Fairness Doctrine thirty years ago, the progressive point-of-view on America's airwaves has diminished to the point that it's now almost non-existent. For every Thom Hartmann you have at least twenty Rush Limbaughs. It's a dire situation that is getting worse with each passing year. And it wasn't exactly a spirit-lifter when Air America failed a couple of years ago. The people's airwaves have been stolen by the plutocracy, and they don't plan on giving it back. Take it back.

Tonight at eight o'clock, for the first time in eight years, I'll be watching an episode of
The Simpsons.

"Good night and good luck".

Tom Degan
tomdegan@frontiernet.net

SUGGESTED READING:

The Worst Persons in the World
by Keith Olbermann

MURROW: A Life
by A.M. Sperber

100 Comments:

At 6:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Tom,

I, too, will really miss Keith. I missed all the earlier stuff--I only discovered him about 3 years ago. The final episode is still available online at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann. It was remarkable for the lack of any hint, right up until the Number 1 segment, of anything out of the ordinary.

Sigh!
Peace,
Amy.

 
At 7:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man! I was at a gym friday night and they have these tvs going and I saw Olbermann come on that night but did not watch it, was doing some other things and then, I read the net news the next morning and they said Olbermann had left the show, perhaps the parties involved may have some sort of nondisclosure clause or something or else we would hear why Olbermann left by now. Olbermann had the top show if I am correct and by a good margin to the other MSNBC prime time shows, Matthews, Schultz and Maddow. So, in one way, I wonder if he would be asking for a higher salary because of that success but then, you would not think he'd leave if he was free to be an idealogue on his own show. I also heard something vague today about his possibly being drafted for a Senate run in, I remember now, Leibermann's Senate seat so that may mean he, Olbermann lives in Conneticut. Surely, Olbermann could get a job rather quickly with another network, maybe Fox which has Gerardo, Juan Williams and even Wanda Sykes has a tv show on the Fox network. I heard too, Olbermann was a NY Yankees fan, I know I saw him being a sportscaster years ago for KTLA Los Angeles, not that I lived in California, that was what early cable tv was, stations like that, WGN, Chicago, WOR I believe, Newark, New York and WTBS Atlanta, Ted Turner's station, superstations.

 
At 7:16 PM, Anonymous KateFromMadison said...

Tom,

We progressives are a dying breed! I love you Tom!

 
At 7:45 PM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Oh! You're breaking my heart, Kate! That made my day!

Love,

Tom

 
At 9:28 PM, Blogger DriveGoddess said...

Yep, this is not good and it was inevitable given his squabbles with his boss and the Comcast business....but I do not believe for a second that Keith will go quietly into the void - nope. He no doubt has something up his sleeve and to be perfectly fair he has walked out of this deal with a shitload of coin, enough I would say to enable him to still be a thorn in the side of the Savages, Limbaughs, Coulters and O-Reillys lurking out there.

An independent voice, one with bucks to back it up and beholden to no corporate entity should be a strong one indeed. At least that is how I see it.

Bring it on Keith. I am waiting.

 
At 9:34 PM, Blogger Nance said...

KO was an unprecedented phenomenon: movie star handsome, dignified, charismatic, relentless, hugely intelligent, funny, and he had The Voice. And he shared my obsession with James Thurber. He was also apparently high maintenance, as all thoroughbreds are said to be.

I love Rachel and I think Lawrence O'Donnell does a masterful job of insulting his guests, even the ones who are on his side, but neither one of them will compel me to turn on the tube at night.

 
At 10:01 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

Birth Certificate Update

@1:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE

 
At 12:01 PM, Blogger Dearest Friend said...

What will we do? I mean - what will we do until he resurfaces - and he will. Can't keep a good progressive down, right?

Fear not, gentle knight of the left...you will not continue this fight alone.

It was great to see Senator Lieberman and Senator Al Franken last night during the State of the Union. How great is that to roll off anyone's tongue - from SNL to the senate chamber - and smart and very active too.

It's all good - we've got voices left in the house and senate - I still miss seeing Senator Kennedy there though. :(

 
At 12:41 PM, Blogger Rain said...

I think he'll be back with a format that enables him to be free with what he says. It might even be Oprah's new network. Seems like that might make a good fit :)

 
At 12:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MSNBC's Sarah Palin Sickness 1/26/11

The Washington Post's Dana Milbank, in his Jan. 21 column, went so far as to propose a "Palin-free February" of news coverage after confessing he had written 42 columns about her since 2008. "Though it is embarrassing to admit this in public, I can no longer hide the truth. I have a Sarah Palin problem," Milbank wrote.


It looks like Dana Milbank also has the Tom Degan infatuation problem with Sarah Palin. Deep down they both must be sexually attracted to her.

 
At 12:50 PM, Blogger artistry said...

Hi there, thanks for a great post about Keith. I am very heartbroken. He made my night. So smart. So with it. He has to stay off the tv for six months or so and then I will be looking to see where he lands. I wish him well.

 
At 1:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boltok, you post a good article as I often read the Drudge Report, some of these things appear on his website.

It's looking like the closest proof of Obama being born in the USA are going to be those Honolulu newspaper clippings announcing his birth which while good, should not be the final arbiter. I've kept up with all of this and have read almost all of the WND articles, one of those hospitals should have a record really. They do for most people but I already know, there are not records for that. Of course, the lack of a long form birth certificate could be to conceal other things, a ruse.

Hey, I got licensed by the State for a profession, I had to tell them everything about me with personal records.

And of course, as everyone knows, Arizona appears to be in the process of passing a bill to make submitting such personal records mandatory.

Andy

 
At 1:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As for General Electric, GE, they've been portrayed as being on both sides of the aisle and haven't they owned NBC for awhile now?

"The appointment of General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt to lead an economic advisory panel called the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness prompted talk show host Rush Limbaugh to suggest that President Obama may be involved in "serious insider dealing" with GE."

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/limbaugh-general-electric-in/2011/01/23/id/383658

This was the first article I could find but it seems I've heard things about GE before. Anyway, this is an article from this past Sunday.

Andy

 
At 3:09 PM, Blogger Bill_in_DE said...

People used to say the loons who thought the moon landings were a hoax needed to get laid.
I think birthers are proof that they did.

 
At 3:28 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Andy, I did get that article from Drudge. I am very liberal when it comes to spreading good news. I do, however, bring stories from other sources, not to mention purely gratutitous commentary.

I saw story 2 on Obama birth certificate. I was telling someone a couple months ago that Arizona should counter Eric Holder by requiruing the state election committee to require an original valid birth certificate.

I have had a profession which has required background check on top of background check. I've provided original everything many times.

 
At 3:29 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Contents of an email I received last week:

Does this make you wonder?



The great mystery..............

WHO IS HE? Ever wondered why no one ever came forward from
Obama's past saying they knew him, attended school with him, was his
friend, etc. Not one person has ever come forward from his past.


VERY, VERY STRANGE..

This should really be a cause for great concern. To those
who voted for him, you have elected the biggest unqualified fraud that
America has ever known Sort of adds credence to the idea of The
Manchurian Candidate thing happening here!

Let's face it. As insignificant as we all are .. someone
whom we went to school with remembers our name or face ... someone
remembers we were the clown or the dork or the brain or the quiet one or
the bully or something about us.

George Stephanopoulos of ABC News said the same thing during
the 2008 campaign. He questiones why no one has acknowledged the
president was in their classroom or ate in the same cafeteria or made
impromptu speeches on campus.

Stephanopoulos also was a classmate of Obama at Columbia -- the
class of 1984. He says he never had a single class with him.

While he is such a great orator, why doesn't anyone in Obama's
college class remember him? And, why won't he allow Columbia to release
his records?

NOBODY REMEMBERS OBAMA AT COLUMBIA !

Looking for evidence of Obama's past, Fox News contacted 400
Columbia University students from the period when Obama claims to have
been there, but none remembered him.

Wayne Allyn Root was, like Obama, a political science major at
Columbia who also graduated in 1983 In 2008, Root says of Obama, "I
don't know a single person at Columbia that knew him, and they all know
me. I don't have a classmate who ever knew Barack Obama at Columbia.
EVER!

Nobody recalls him. Root adds that he was also, like Obama,
"Class of '83 political science, pre-law" and says, "You don't get more
exact or closer than that." Never met him in my life, don't know anyone
who ever met him. At the class reunion, our 20th reunion five years ago,
who was asked to be the speaker of the class? Me. No one ever heard of
Barack! And five years ago, nobody even knew who he was.

The guy who writes the class notes, who's kind of the, as we say
in New York, the macha who knows everybody, has yet to find a person, a
human who ever met him."


Obama's photograph does not appear in the school's yearbook and
Obama consistently declines requests to talk about his years at Columbia,
provide school records, or provide the name of any former classmates or
friends while at Columbia.



NOTE: Root graduated as Valedictorian from his high school,
Thornton-Donovan School, then graduated from Columbia University in 1983
as a Political Science major in the same class that Barack Hussein Obama
was supposed to have been in.

Some other interesting questions..

Why was Obama's law license inactivated in 2002?

Why was Michelle's law license inactivated by Court Order?

It is circulating that according to the U.S. Census, there is
only one Barack Obama but 27 Social Security numbers and over 80 aliases.
The Social Security number he uses now originated in Connecticut where he
is never reported to have lived.

No wonder all his records are sealed!

 
At 3:41 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

a word from my spirtual advisor, start at 3:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r8sm3gspsA

 
At 3:57 PM, Blogger Darlene said...

I miss Keith already. I love Rachel Maddow, but she isn't Keith and I foresee MSNBC's ratings fall, as they should.

I read that there was a clause in Keith's contract that he will not be able to appear on any other show for a specified number of years. I do hope that information was erroneous. He kept me sane during the Bush years by saying everything I was thinking. I need to keep hearing his voice of sanity and anger.

 
At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boltok: I'm not a Michael Savage fan, he comes on in the middle of the night here and though I've heard a good bit from him, some of his statements have made me shy away from him. But Savage was on fire last night, I won't buy his book but his 37 point plan to get America right is right on the mark, his saying that with many federal agencies, I think all except the Military basically, we could cut them by 4% a year would start making a difference sounds like the kinds of things that need to be done. With what is being proposed in the SOTU, it won't really count for a whole lot in lowering the Federal deficit.

Andy

 
At 4:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boltok: Also, the way the rules may well be flexed with Rahm Emmanuel's filing for candidacy for mayor of Chicago just smacks of this same type of thing as these things about Barack Hussein.

Andy

 
At 4:16 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Andy,
I had the pleasure of visiting the offices of a couple federal agencies over the years.

In one meeting, I sat at the conference table with the head of one significant agency. This person fell a sleep, cold, for half the meeting. He even snored.

When visiting the offices of another for a day, I was able to watch about 100 different people over the course of the day. I can honestly tell you that I did not see anyone work or otherwise look industious.

You could layoff half of government employees and NO ONE would know the difference. Its all a scam, jobs program, income redistribution scheme. A large proportion of these federal employees, instead of learning how to do something productive, suck the tax base dry.

Not all govt workers are "bad" of course. I also no many that are in basic serices and earn every cent they make.

But to say you couldnt start slashing federal budgets is pure nonsense.

 
At 5:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/obama-at-columbia-university/

Looks like there is some evidence of Obama at Columbia U but I don't blame people for being skeptical about this, for most candidates we would still be able to see some college records and yes, I realize 'factcheck' is a Democrat type organization or something of that nature.

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-years-at-columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/

 
At 5:35 PM, Blogger Lydia said...

I caught the flu that my husband has had for a week. If it had slammed into me in the same week that Olbermann left msnbc it may have required the ER (and I don't mean that tv show). Here's the sad part of this for our household. We just three weeks ago upgraded our cable service to the "tier" that includes msnbc, cnn, fox, etc. I was in heaven seeing Keith each night, as I'd only seen him in his occasional guest visits on network television and online. I had three weeks of Countdown and I'm furious to lose it...so I can only imagine how all of you who have been faithful viewers for years are feeling about now.

Thanks for this background on msnbc; I was clueless.

You did not mention Rachel Maddow. I like her immensely and hope she can hang in there. Actually, I hope we can all hang in there. Now, I need my meds.....

 
At 6:01 PM, Blogger Jif Frommer said...

Last Kennedy Liberal>

Senator Lieberman’s decision to retire from the Senate after four terms is a tragedy for the Democratic Party, particularly for the party of President Kennedy, who 50 years ago today gave the inaugural speech that inspired Mr. Lieberman’s career. The senator’s retirement is a tragedy for the rest of America, too, but America will survive. Whether a Democratic Party that finds itself unable to make a home for the likes of Mr. Lieberman will survive, that is, at least by my lights, less certain.

I offer that thought with a sense of sadness. As recently as the mid-1990s, when I was editing the Forward, I was quoted by the Chicago Tribune as describing myself as a “Kennedy liberal.” I sent them a letter to the editor saying, “I’d better note that the Kennedy in question was JFK — i.e., I am a hawk on Vietnam, want an activist foreign policy, support the gold standard, favor supply-side tax cuts and believe in aggressive federal support for civil rights short of quotas.”

One can argue that Mr. Lieberman is the last Kennedy liberal in the Congress. The last actual Kennedy, of course, was Senator Edward Kennedy’s son, Patrick, who decided not to run again and last month went home to Rhode Island. But Mr. Lieberman looks like the last Kennedy liberal — a strong supporter of civil rights, liberal but not too liberal on social issues, a supporter of supply-side tax cuts, and a Democrat prepared to carry any burden, oppose any foe, support any friend to ensure the survival of liberty.

 
At 6:05 PM, Blogger Jif Frommer said...

Too bad Keith Olbermann would get racist, you call an Asian "a mashed up bag of meat", like OLbermann did and see how they like it. Scum, Darwin was wrong!

 
At 7:29 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Anon
factcheck, the only place where the birth certificate resides to my knowlege, is an Annenberg funded company. bill ayers had run an annenberg company or non profit or somehting like that. annenberg->ayers->obama->factcheck, a little too convenient for the skeptical

factcheck is part of the chicago machine

some document authenticity experts think it is not a good copy after magnifying it 1 million times.

 
At 10:33 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Birthers? Really? The GOP plan is to gut programs that you use and raise your taxes so that taxes on corporations and those above you can get cut even more than they already are, but you're distracted by that? How badly are you willing to screw yourselves over to stick it to your The Other? I think you're misinformed, I think you're willfully ignorant, but I don't think you're evil and there's no way I'd be willing to screw over myself, my family and the majority of my fellow countrymen just to hurt you. That would be beyond idiotic.

boltok "Contents of an email I received last week: Does this make you wonder?..."
No, boltok, it does not. It does not. These things are trivially easy to debunk. You're being lied to and you don't care. I can only conclude that you don't care what the truth actually is. Instead, you'll sit at heel and zealously absorb what your Tribe says it is, and pass it on faithfully as though repeating a lie makes it even more true than it already isn't.

"factcheck, the only place where the birth certificate resides to my knowlege, is an Annenberg funded company. bill ayers had run an annenberg company or non profit or somehting like that. annenberg->ayers->obama->factcheck, a little too convenient for the skeptical factcheck is part of the chicago machine>"
/me scratches off "Genetic Fallacy" from Logical Fallacy bingo card.
It's kind of sad that you can't even come up with a good conspiracy theory. I mean, Soros would be better than some bit player like Ayers. If you're going to smear, think big! I hear that terrible, communist unpatriot (and billionairre hedge fund manager) who hides all of his nefarious liberal support behind a mask of "Hey, look at this liberal support I'm giving!", Soros is a popular choice these days.

 
At 1:26 AM, Blogger Dearest Friend said...

Nance, it is wonderful to see another person admit a Thurber obsession. After reading your response here, I got to wondering, what would Jamie Thurber would have thought about certain issues of the day - and what he would have done to point the idiocies of today's crackpots out to the world!

Talk about a humorist who is dearly missed in this world. (Or should be!)

Bless Mr. Olbermann for keeping the Thurber flame alive. John Lennon was maybe the last celebrity with any clout that truly loved Thurber's material - his early artwork was very similar and I know he brought up Thurber in interviews several times.

I don't remember the exact quote but Thurber himself once said something about the fact that when he got to that room where all legendary writers are assigned in heaven, they would have to find an extra chair for him from another room like an unexpected guest at your dinner table. OK - that might not be exactly it - but something like it. In other words, he might feel unwelcome in that room but felt he had the right to be there!

I'll stand by anyone who believes in Thurber - anytime. Such wisdom disguised in humorous essays, shorty stories and children's literature!

Mary

 
At 6:35 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
Your the fool if you dont think strange things happen behind closed doors in Chicago. Why choose Annenberg, why not a Big 4 Accounting/Audit firm to write an attestation that the birth certificate exists and the information is accurate? If it was George Bush and Houston Texas, everything above would seem very logical to you.

Very simply, why does not Jug Ears, on one of his thousands of trips, stop over the municipal office in HI and pick up a copy (or send a GE owned private jet with one of his west wing revolutionaries with a power or attorney). I know it is only to fulfill a trivial requirement of the US Constitution.

I will be laughing my arse off till I die if they someday prove he is an illegal alien and all the laws he signed need to be nullified because they were signed by a fraud. Goodbye Obamacare. Goodbye democratic party.

On the flip side, if he can prove he is who says he is, I have no problem at all. He is in office because voters put him there.

 
At 10:15 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"He is in office because voters put him there."

Do you mention this because, unlike Obama, his predecessor was placed in office by an activist and partisan majority of the U.S. Supreme Court?

Just curious...

 
At 10:52 AM, Anonymous bolotk said...

JG
Long time no hear.

Correct me if I am wrong but the news service final recounts all showed that Bush won Florida. Also, let's be real. If Gore could have won TN, he would be president. On top of that, evey time you pay your electric bill, thank Bush because Gore would have been happy to triple it.

The biggest gripe for the left seems to be that they can't recount only to the moment in which they can claim victory.

Where is Gore by the war, its frickin cold out.

 
At 12:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boltok: As to whom is a Birther, I'd not worry about it. It is ironic that Chris Matthews is put in the main article because not once but CM has been referred to as a Birther himself if inadvertently so. Even a writer at the Huffington Post, an African American woman said, "you know, I know Obama was born in the US but it would not hurt anything to just put the birth certificate out there."

Liberals and Leftists really are out of the know on all of this news. I mean you have the Hawaiian Democrat Governor vow to put the Birth Certificate Issue to bed and then, finds out that he can't. But Liberals and Leftists are very selective and in fact, ill-informed, by the way, another key from one of the issues on this blog was about JFK's victory over Nixon, one could easily say and with more creedence in fact, that the 1960 election was fraudulently won over Nixon for JFK with the help of the Unions and the Mob but yet, little is done by Righties to constantly drill this fact to Liberals.

And in fact, so much corruption, one can not be sure if one is talking about West Virginia, Illinois-Chicago or even Texas, there is so much information out there, this is but one website.

"
Kennedy ended up with 303 electoral votes to Nixon's 219. The shift of Illinois and Texas would have made the difference, and this is the point Professor Kallina misses. Victory was stolen from Richard Nixon."

http://stonezone.com/article.php?id=391

But hey, there are references all over the web. At a minimum, it is all very suspicious and a lot of this is accepted as so while the election with Bush in Florida is easily seen as sour grapes.

--------

But all that at Fact Check, yes, I was just mentioning that apparently there is info that Obama went to Columbia as far as the magazine article went however, in no way would i be endorsing the rest of the things at Fact Check in regards to the Birth Certificate issue and in fact, 10 other states are making legislation as well that one would need to have the proper documentation in order to run for office.

Andy

 
At 12:21 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

boltok "Why choose Annenberg, why not a Big 4 Accounting/Audit firm to write an attestation that the birth certificate exists and the information is accurate?"
And then you'll go, "He got to them!", and the goalposts will move because no level of evidence for his natural bornness is good enough. A birth certificate (but not that kind), approval from authority (but not that one), a birth certificate (but not that one), approval from a different authority (but not that one), etc. Birthers are the Creationists of Rightwing politcs.

"If it was George Bush and Houston Texas, everything above would seem very logical to you."
I didn't see anyone saying that the Republican wasn't an American. I only see that for the brown Democrat. This is because the Right is out of its mind.

"I will be laughing my arse off till I die if they someday prove he is an illegal alien and all the laws he signed need to be nullified because they were signed by a fraud."
I will be too, because it doesn't work like that. (except for his veto, whether or not a president signs a bill in to law it's still law)
Also, kudos on ignoring the points and the substance of my post.

"On the flip side, if he can prove he is who says he is, I have no problem at all. He is in office because voters put him there."
Well...you're taking a step in the right direction, as you didn't drop an "ACORN!!!".

 
At 12:25 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
Here is an example of too much analysis on your part. This guy has no problem dropping 1 billion dollars getting elected. He could send someone round trip for under 1 thousand dollars. Send someone to Hawaii with a power of attorney and pick up a copy. Place it in a frame and stick on the wall in the National Gallery of Art for all to behold. Simple stuff. I will do it for him pro bono.

 
At 12:30 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

bolotk "Correct me if I am wrong but the news service final recounts all showed that Bush won Florida."
No, this is how it's going to work: You're going to do your own damn research to back up your own damn declarations.

"On top of that, evey time you pay your electric bill, thank Bush because Gore would have been happy to triple it."
We're still on coal. Hurray? We're eight years behind the rest of the world. Hurray? Also, Iraq. Hurrah?

Also, {citation needed} on the tripling and the happiness.

"The biggest gripe for the left seems to be that they can't recount only to the moment in which they can claim victory."
My gripe is that the Supreme Court went out of its way to make a (one-time-only/only applies to this specific case!) decision saying that you have a right to vote but you don't have a right to have that vote counted. If that's democracy, it sure ain't democractic.

 
At 12:45 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
Out of curiousity, are you from the united states and are you a us citizen?

 
At 1:10 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

I'm foreign. The "we" is mostly force of habit for the avoidance of conflict. "You" often comes across as too accusatory, eh.

 
At 1:15 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, you said...

"Where is Gore by the war [sic], its frickin cold out."

Apparently you don't understand the difference between climate and weather. That's unfortunate.

 
At 1:19 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
I often wonder why people come to this country and specialize in what is wrong with our system.

Does the country you come from have a more democratic system, better health care system, better social security and medicare, better defence, better legal system, etc.

Do you feel a sense of pride in the country you came from?

Do you employ your considerable analytical power trying to solve the issues which face your country of origin?

Most Americans would tell you dont lose sleep over us.

I have never visited another country and felt the obligation to criticize it. If there systems was worse than mine, I just went home. And guess what, I am happy to live in the USA.

 
At 1:26 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
I know the difference between climate and weather. Both of which are on a cold trend according to my models.

Where is Al Gore?

 
At 1:40 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Probably enjoying a massage about now.

 
At 1:58 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 3:46 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

TSVDP
Ive worked with and had a number of friends from other countries. I have always liked how the brits create pleasant euphamisms. I've learned some bad words in Russian, they sound great. If you need to express yourself with expletives, that's the language. I try to absorb the best of the world's cultures.

Anyway I am into steel frames, I like your blog.

 
At 3:49 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Oh, I was just amending my post, because I don't really feel like an American, Australian or Jamaican is strictly a foreigner in England or The UK, we're not exactly natives either but somewhere in between.

"Boltok, I would have thought you were f---- (see note above) too because generally, I didn't think Americans used the word "arse", languages are my thing, I know they say that in the UK all the time, probably Ireland, Australia too. Maybe Americans say it more in New England/New York. That threw me but it is not important.

It's like when I see someone spell say, colour and a few other words like that, tyre is another versus our saying tire. Canadians say 'tire' generally but for many other words use would they call it the King's or Queen's English?"

 
At 7:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Al Gore,

You are a big bullshit artist! The saddest part is how many ignorant fools on the left believe you! Go hump a polar bear Al!

 
At 7:22 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

boltok, the thing is that it hurts us to see you hurt yourselves. When the Greatest Country in the World®, for examples, invades a country based on a lie, has a significant minority of the population that thinks the universe is 6,000 years old or that Carter caused the Mortgage Bubble, that makes us sad.
Your country is supposed to be better than that; a city on a hill or somesuch, not an asylum run by escapees from the paranoid schizophrenia ward. It turns out that the USA is just as bad as the rest of us, except that it's much better at being as bad as we are.

 
At 8:36 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 8:45 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Oh-Oh, ModusOperandi is talking basically atheism, this sounds like the spiel one hears indeed in Merry Olde England where I hear you can't even have religious broadcasting on the radio, or maybe ModusOperandi is just a Euro Snob, you could hear this in Italy, Spain, other places... but I think it's silly, I heard Liebermann, Conneticut Senator today said he supported the war against Iraq. Well, obviously, all this is to agree to disagree, MO is presenting us with ahem, 'moral dilemmas', I know, I've heard lots of bad stories, I forget the programme, out of Iraq, one story was so bad, my neighbour who is by the way, Egyptian, I just had to have him over for a big meal, to appreciate him hearing of our bad deeds over there, supposed bad deeds. Speaking of moral dilemmas, no abortion in Ireland, none in Northern Ireland though they had an election so all Europeans are not as high falooting sophisticated as MO.

 
At 12:06 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

TSVDP, what?

 
At 4:15 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, I'm not convince you do know the difference.

Please present data from your models. I'm anxious to see why yours differs remarkably from that of a majority of climate scientists.

 
At 4:20 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltek, that's "convinced"

Sorry.

Oh, and by the way, it was out of more than just curiosity that you requested to know MO's nationality, wasn't it? ;-)

 
At 6:34 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG
I have superior data to that of East Anglia university. For the weather, is use a device called a thermometer. Most liberals and climate scientists have a bias against the thermometer because it uses unacceptably high amounts of mercury, and that threatens the environment and ergo has an impact on global warming.

Then I take my measurement (and temperatures from cities on each continent) and type them into a spreadsheet. Unlike Anglia, I dont change my recorded data to something else and delete the original.

Then I use a sophisticated mathematical technique called the average. Basically you add the termperatures and divide by 365 to an average for the year. Hang in there, I know this is tuff stuff.

Then, the key logical maneuver, is that I compare one year to the prior year and check to see which value is larger. My models shows a decline in termperature.

I have developed a long term model to predict our climatic future. Most disturbing is that when I use time series regressions to predict the future I see a hockey stick pattern down, with a few hot periods here and there.

Basically what happens, is that the sun begins to run out of hydrogen, expands do the lack of internal gravity, expands tremdnously, burns off the earths atmosphere, become a white dwarf, and then the earth becomes, if not consumed by the expanding sun, a frozen rock. That really scares me.

 
At 6:38 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO

I want to expand my horizons. Tell me which country you came from. I want to compare your country to the USA. That will help me to understand, I assume, from the basis of a superior model of governance, what is so wrong with America.

I am sure that it will only increase my curiousity regarding your selfless altruism of residing in the USA.

 
At 8:56 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
Are you from Egypt? Looks like they could use a specialist on govnerment with advanced knowledge of democracy. It looks like they have a hanging chad problem at the moment.

 
At 11:32 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

One of our radio stations plays the "Democracy Now" http://www.democracynow.org shows which are anti-war, interviews and things and then, one day I was listening, they were calling the soldiers or rather the enemies they fought, I forget the name they said, maybe "Hadjis" there in Iraq. Well, that set me back some listening to it so since I have an Egyptian friend, that is what I did was fix a big dinner and he appreciated it. Now, he's not an Iraqui or whatever other soldiers might get in there to fight but he is Arabic.

1st Tunisia, now Egypt, Jordan's King is feeling the pressure. I think in the past 6 months, riots have been in England clearly and there have been some in France in the last year or two. Serious issue.

Even Glenn Beck this morning was saying this Mubarak was a dictator, I don't really know. Beck was saying that if the CIA ever worked with the Egyptian regime which surely they have, all documents in Egypt showing such need to be destroyed. This is Beck. Curious stuff.

I'm not a doomsayer, he was saying "what's to stop us from thinking riots like this could happen here", maybe something could trigger something like that. We'll see. Dicey times.

 
At 1:05 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

I don't think we will have a problem until food shortages. The US population, for all its whiners complaining how bad they have it, is growing fatter by the day. You dont see obese people rioting. To much excercise required.

You may see the ghastly union heads like Trumka and Stern try to stir the pot.

If food is ever in short supply, then watch out.

 
At 1:28 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Food will be in short supply to the people who can no longer afford to buy it. When unemployment benefits run out and jobs that pay a living wage are still not to be found there will be rioting in Amerika and rightly so !! Let the establishment keep thinking that it can fuck people over with impunity indefinitely....at some point even fat, lazy Amerikans will fight back.

 
At 1:45 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Serious question, who exactly is the establishment.

 
At 2:05 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

The establishment is the super-wealthy who own all three branches of the U. S. government and the mainstream media. The establishment is politicians who waltz back and forth between the private sector and government regulatory positions to enable corporations to manipulate and circumvent laws meant to protect society from parasites who take advantage of everything they can get away with. That is who the establishment is. Serious answer !!!

 
At 2:40 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

OK. Then how are the rioters going to identify them (the establishment) in the crowd. Are they going to march on Greenwich, CT? Or will they bust windows in their neighborhoods until they are blasted with rubber pellets?

Maybe that is what Obama civilain security force is for. So his brown shirts can load the masses on trains and dump them in FEMA "emergency" camps.

 
At 2:55 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Oh the rioters will never see the actual establishment. They will only see the bullets from the National Guard rifles. The establishment will be safely holed up in its well protected fortresses that masquerade as mansions. With an all volunteer military the best way to defeat the establishment is to infiltrate the military with anti-establishment plants. Then there can be a coupe from within !!

 
At 3:05 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

You should write a novel. People love those kinds of stories.

 
At 3:22 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Great idea boltok !! The bestseller will make me millions that I can give to the folks who need it !!

 
At 3:59 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

Remember you said that. When your sleeping on piles of cash from your royalties, you may have dreams of becoming part of the establishment.

 
At 4:24 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Live coverage, film of the action.

 
At 6:17 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

boltok "I want to expand my horizons."
No. No, you don't.

"Tell me which country you came from. I want to compare your country to the USA."
Why, the laissez-faire small government utopia of Somalia, of course.

"Maybe that is what Obama civilain security force is for. So his brown shirts can load the masses on trains and dump them in FEMA "emergency" camps."
Wow. Two rightwing memes (although the FEMA meme hopped to the nuttiest of the left, too, when Dubya was in charge) in two sentences, with a Nazi and a possible Holocaust reference. Classy.

 
At 6:55 PM, Blogger Beth said...

I'll miss him, too. I've heard that he has to stay off of TV for 6-9 months, but I think he'll be back.

I find that Lawrence O'Donnell (who his taking over the 8 o'clock spot) can be a fairly vicious attack dog, especially when interviewing conservatives. I think he has potential.

 
At 6:57 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

Mo

I think you could be the Mahatma Gandhi of Somalia. You should write a list of everything that is wrong with the USA, go back to Mogadishu, and make sure that nastiness doesn't occur in Somalia.

I think it's a joke that people come to this country from war zones, live in peace with opportunity and safety and become our outside consultants.

People like you are like those times when you invite someone over for dinner, and then they complain the table chair is too hard, the light is too bright, the temp is too hot the too cold, the steak is too well done, and before dinner is over the guest is pissed at you for inviting him in the first place.

BTW: This is where Obama is going to put you if you mess with his domestic security force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

 
At 7:17 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
One more thing, I think your nazi analogy is completely wrong. Obama would never say that work will set you free.

 
At 8:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis D., Esq

"The establishment is the super-wealthy who own all three branches of the U. S. government and the mainstream media."

You did too many drugs back in your 60s commune. A socialist was elected President who had parents who admitted they were communists, how could you be complaining about the executive branch? The congress has been spending (Dems and Repubs) OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY on numerous social programs over the decades with NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND POOR RESULTS, how could you be complaining about the congress? The mainstream media was CBS, NBC, and ABC for years at 6:00 PM with their socialist agenda and now there are stations with opposing viewpoints, why are you complaining about the media?

"The establishment is politicians who waltz back and forth between the private sector and government regulatory positions to enable corporations to manipulate and circumvent laws meant to protect society from parasites who take advantage of everything they can get away with. "

Why don't you talk about the 729 waivers granted by the Department of Health and Human Services to businesses that will not be forced to participate in ObamaCare? One-fourth of all the waivers (182) have gone to Big Labor groups across the country: The Teamsters Union, The United Food and Commercial Workers International Union, The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

The Service Employees International Union (SEIU), which poured $60 million into Democratic/Obama coffers in 2008 and millions more into the campaign for the federal health care takeover, added four new affiliates to the waiver list.

 
At 9:06 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Obama's parents "admitted they were Communists"?

Where the hell did you hear that? My advice to you: Turn off FOX Noise.

Seriously and sincerely,

Tom Degan

 
At 9:07 AM, Anonymous George Harrison said...

I look at the world and I notice it's turning....With every mistake we must surely be learning....

 
At 9:18 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

Oh my goodness! Michele Bachmann is confused - not to mention as nutty as a Nestle's Crunch Bar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tgmJmz1qU4

 
At 10:07 AM, Blogger Jif Frommer said...

Looks like as usual the liberals are misinformed.

"Chris Matthews once again embarrasses himself with an unhinged and ill-informed attack on Rep. Michele Bachmann in this clip. The entire basis for his idiotic attacks, repeatedly calling her a “balloonhead,” stems from Bachmann claiming that the Founders, also mentioning John Adams’ son, John Quincy Adams specifically by name, continued to work until the blight of slavery became a thing of the past in America."

http://bigjournalism.com/driehl/2011/01/25/michele-bachman-gives-chris-matthews-a-history-lesson/

http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/01/28/moron-matthews-takes-pro-slavery-side-in-constitutional-argument-trying-to-prove-michele-bachmanns-ignorance/

Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell and now Michelle Bachmann. Do the Democrats just dislike women??? Just like the joke that they like minorities??

Hey, enjoy watching the trouble in the MidEast and the one Democracy over there, set up by George Dubya Bush.

Speaking of Obama confusing Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps we should call him a "Nutjob" with the same Racist or Sexist Bigotry some people use.

 
At 10:13 AM, Blogger Jif Frommer said...

ModusOperandi isn't a Somalian I don't think, he/she was saying that in jest surely, not only is Somalia all screwed up but some Somalians in this country have been involved in terrorism as the guy out in Washington/Oregon who was going to bomb the Christmas tree lighting celebration and others have been involved in prostitution rings with minors so I don't think he was being sincere. Surely, most or many Somalians are okay, yeh, giving votes for Al Franken in Minnesota over a good man like Norm Coleman.

 
At 11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay Tom

Obama's parents "admitted they were Communists" is not accurate.

I guess "Dreams of my Father" had no communist ideology behind it. LOL.

Obama's father was a communist and his mother is a communist is more accurate.

You liberals are great at camouflaging what you want to call your species. Whatever you want to call yourselves your beliefs in central planning of society and economics have repeatedly failed throughout history and led to the deaths of hundreds of millions of people.

Maybe you can knit pick, somehow, on my grammer to dodge the topic.

 
At 11:03 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

boltok "BTW: This is where Obama is going to put you if you mess with his domestic security force...."
And now...in context via a terribly cursory googling.
Do you know what a good faith argument even looks like?

Jif Frommer "...stems from Bachmann claiming that the Founders, also mentioning John Adams’ son, John Quincy Adams specifically by name, continued to work until the blight of slavery became a thing of the past in America."
So, if "...the Founders worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States..." (via bigjournalism.com), how old were the Founders in 1868? And how homogeneous were the Founding Fathers? They can't have been of one mind, as the arguments of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists attest. The Constitution was a terrible compromise (with at least three pro-slavery provisions) and that it took almost a century and a civil war to undo. This means that some of the FFs were as for it as others were against it. History is rarely as simple as its presented. They, in general, were among the best of their time, but they were still just people. People have faults and none are perfect. One of those faults was that a bunch of them owned people and an imperfection was the unfortunate compromise of America's "peculiar institution".

"Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell and now Michelle Bachmann. Do the Democrats just dislike women???"
No. We dislike Dunning-Kruger.

 
At 11:11 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

Anonymous "You liberals are great at camouflaging what you want to call your species."
I'm a liberal and a socialist, and I don't hide it. I like the idea of progress (as the brown skinned and the yellow skinned and the female bodied and minority religion'd should agree), and I like that my neighbour won't have to bankrupt his family if he gets cancer.

And Obama isn't a socialist. He's a Mod Republican. That's a little socialist. Most people are. Public roads, public military, public water, public fire and police departments, etc. The argument isn't between big S Socialism and big L Laissez-Faire Capitalism; it's how much of each to temper the excesses and blind spots of the other.

 
At 11:18 AM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO

You should put down your Vaporizer while typing.

I dont need to go to his propaganda page when I can hear from the horse's mouth.

What is not clear about: "cannot rely only on the military for out national security objectives" and need a civilian national security force.

That is why we have police.

This monster would create a police state if he could.

What would you have said if Bush said that. It is fine when govt usurps rights by the boat load as long as it is a committed marxist at the helm.

Fool.

 
At 11:58 AM, Blogger finefroghair said...

Tom, huge blog getting better by the day, every post brings out the trolls, and the closet liberals, hard core liberals do not exist.
although that is not true on the other side, thank you trolls, yeah, you know who you are, but lets focus please, lets suspend notions of civility and cut to the chase, fuck these sick right wingers must we always placate their childish notions, their illogical falsehoods, their unprovable truths, must we always succumb to their unending voracious appetite for lies and villainy. why aren't we keeping score? I have and we lose in every category, they have usurped all the viable avenues for dissent; the fourth estate compromised, the SCOTUS shit what a joke, Congress worthless, lucky I have an inkling of history. no wonder the right doesn't and no wonder they fear it so, ripe is not the word, yes it is ripe for revolution, change, something, this scourge must not continue unabated no checks, no balances, corporate monstrosity, perpetual economic serfdom, wow the beautiful promise of American freedom HA HA HA yes it was a lie!!! Welcome to the Machine!!

 
At 12:56 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

boltok "I dont need to go to his propaganda page when I can hear from the horse's mouth."
"I don't need to hear the original, complete speech from him because I can hear a version that cuts out the context."
How about a condensed, in context version of the speech as given?"

"What would you have said if Bush said that."
I'd have said "Man, his sentences are awfully long. What happened to the fake cowboy act and the malapropisms? Woop! Pizza's here!"

"It is fine when govt usurps rights by the boat load as long as it is a committed marxist at the helm."
You use that work inappropriately. I don't think you know what it means. Obama is Dole. Dole wasn't a Marxist.

 
At 1:09 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

MO
There are the stupid and those committed to stupidity. At a minimum, you are among the later.

Condensed, in context, by Annenberg. You are a lunatic.

You are a malcontent looking for handouts in another land. You dont want safety nets for the need but for losers. Just admit that is what you are. Dont blame your color, sex, proclivity, or nationality for your station in life. Losers look for handouts and blame others when the lottery check doesn't miraculously appear in the mail box.

Once you come to grips with that, you wont have to waste time in search of a philosophical justification for yourself.

 
At 1:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

FineFrogHair,

"the fourth estate compromised"

So when it was just ABC, NBC, and CBS at 6PM for "news" on TV and the newspapers (mostly socialist) were strong, that was OK. Now that people have the FREEDOM for alternate sources of news and political opinion that is not OK?

"Congress worthless"

I agree with you there froggy. The congress has WASTED TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY EARNED BY HARDWORKING AMERICANS. There is no accountability nor results for their wreckless spending. All the money spent on social programs has only encouraged more people to depend on the Government.


The Messiah says High Speed Rails is the answer! This will almost certainly mean laying down new railroad tracks. Won't this hurt the environment and possibly damage your species? We must not let this happen and protect you! I'm sure with AMTRAK losing billions every year, that somehow High Speed Rails will be the profitable answer! Do you think the Unions care if there are cost overruns for High Speed Rail? Oh yeah, just like they cared for the Boston Big Dig overruns LOL!

 
At 1:32 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 1:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Neighbour" - MO See this is anglicized English again and England, once home of the British Empire where the sun never set let alone the oppressor of Ireland and Scotland for centuries is endangered some say of the English becoming minorities in their own country. This may be exaggerated but undeniably there have been some Islamic extremists their whereas England has veered towards a more secular path. Atheism is not uncommon, they have same-sex marriage. France just upheld its ban on same-sex marriage. I'd say marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's for the English to decide who makes up the population, fine with me when we see Nigerians or Kenyans who are Christians but I wouldn't want to see Sharia Law in England or in fact, the USA, France, Denmark and other places. I'd still think England is our closest ally despite what President Obama saying in that France was. But I don't think that will have a long term effect.

 
At 1:57 PM, Blogger TSVDP said...

Okay, that last posting was mine, sorry I guess the computer was set on anonymous.

 
At 7:09 PM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

boltok "There are the stupid and those committed to stupidity. At a minimum, you are among the later."
At worst that's a tu quoue.

"Condensed, in context..."
Sure.

"...by Annenberg."
Genetic Fallacy again.

"You are a lunatic."
Really? You're the one who won't read the speech because of the site it's posted on.

"You are a malcontent looking for handouts in another land."
Actually, I'm doin' all right. It was a little shaky there for a while, but I pulled through.

"You dont want safety nets for the need but for losers. Just admit that is what you are. Dont blame your color, sex, proclivity, or nationality for your station in life. Losers look for handouts and blame others when the lottery check doesn't miraculously appear in the mail box."
If you're really quiet, you can hear the 10% (more, really) of Americans who are currently unemployed call you an asshole.
Most of them are just like you. When you get laid-off at 55 and find out just how screwed you (and your family) are, remember that you are one of those "losers".

"Once you come to grips with that, you wont have to waste time in search of a philosophical justification for yourself."
I don't need a philosophical justification for me. I've got a physical one. With out me, my socks would feel hollow and empty.

"All the money spent on social programs has only encouraged more people to depend on the Government."
All of it? Really? You do realize that there's a bunch of social spending involved in school and retraining, the kinds of programs that get people off the government teat, right?

TSVDP "...the British Empire where the sun never set let alone the oppressor of Ireland and Scotland for centuries is endangered some say of the English becoming minorities in their own country."
I'm sure the Americans said the same thing about the Italians or the Irish (or any other number of waves of immigrants) when they first came over. Eventually, they climb up a rung or two on the economic ladder, bank a little cash and gain a modicum of stability and education, and their birthrate drops to ours.
The solution is not to marginalize them, it's integration. They'll get there eventually. We did, as did the Scots and the Greeks and the Poles and the Chinese and the Koreans and the East Indians and the Pakistanis and the...and the...
Every wave tries to pull up the ladder some time after they get here. That's how you tell they've integrated and become accepted; when they prove to be just as provincial as we are.
When I was a kid, my barber used to complain about "those people" coming over here and bringing their "foreign ways". He had the thickest Eastern European accent I've ever heard.

 
At 7:10 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Boltok, which rightwing organization pays you to spend endless hours a day monitoring this site? Surely one must, because there's no way you could earn a living at a "real job" and still be perusing this site for countless hours of the day.

It's time to 'fess up! Who's financing your loitering?

 
At 7:00 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

ModusOperandi writes "I'm sure the Americans said the same thing about the Italians or the Irish (or any other number of waves of immigrants) when they first came over. Eventually, they climb up a rung or two on the economic ladder, bank a little cash and gain a modicum of stability and education, and their birthrate drops to ours. "

Simply talking of University Studies here no high-handed morality or xenophobia against foreigners, sigh. "Some say" is all I said, sorry I did not say "Studies have shown", sigh.

"David Coleman, professor of demography at Oxford University, said they will make up less than HALF the population in just over 50 years.

And soaring immigrant birthrates mean white British kids will be in a minority of youngsters in the UK even sooner. The dramatic decline will be fuelled by record-breaking levels of immigration, coupled with the departure of thousands of Brits for a better life abroad, the population analyst said.

Prof Coleman's controversial claim will raise fresh questions about whether Britain can sustain the influx of hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3234028/Oxford-professor-issues-shock-population-warning-for-Great-Britain-by-2066.html

MO writes further:

"The solution is not to marginalize them, it's integration. They'll get there eventually. We did, as did the Scots and the Greeks and the Poles and the Chinese and the Koreans and the East Indians and the Pakistanis and the...and the...
Every wave tries to pull up the ladder some time after they get here. That's how you tell they've integrated and become accepted; when they prove to be just as provincial as we are.
When I was a kid, my barber used to complain about "those people" coming over here and bringing their "foreign ways". He had the thickest Eastern European accent I've ever heard."

It is a different critter talking about England, Germany, Holland. America is a country of immigrants. Not so much for these other countries. It's not exactly their heritage.

 
At 7:16 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 7:24 AM, Blogger TSVDP said...

MO: That post about England is that we definitely don't need to go down the road they have pursued, where atheism is not uncommon and other things. They could lose their identity, I don't think they will. The Tories will fix things up. But the USA does not need to do the same things as Europe that has seen countries like Ireland and Greece face close to bankruptcy.

MO: You write: "the thing is that it hurts us to see you hurt yourselves. When the Greatest Country in the World®, for examples, invades a country based on a lie, has a significant minority of the population that thinks the universe is 6,000 years old or that Carter caused the Mortgage Bubble, that makes us sad."

You are the one bringing in the Euro style here, glad we believe in God, Joe Liebermann declared his support of the Iraqui invasion the other day and low and behold there is one Arabic democracy in the region, Iraq as we see Egypt in chaos. If you slam religion, you should be prepared to get a response, not talk about how Poles or Scotland immigrated to the US and are now part of the fabric. No one talked any differently. And then to replace a great Christian heritage with Islamic fudamentalism as is a danger in England is clearly counter productive.

Save me your moral rants on that and let's not have any stalking per the baby killing murdering rapist scum of new mexico oh and job stealing too, make that genocidal. The stalking scum unidentified but I think they should be if they are.

 
At 10:58 AM, Blogger Modusoperandi said...

TSVDP "But the USA does not need to do the same things as Europe that has seen countries like Ireland and Greece face close to bankruptcy."
Greek spending didn't reflect revenues (made worse by tax evasion, corruption and a general willingness of the government to cover up just how bad things were), and Ireland got caught in a real estate bubble. Both (and others) got hit by the same derivatives/credit default swap bubble/scam that got the US.
Ireland also bailed out the banks and (as is potentially planned in the US) chose "austerity programs" to help defray them.

"You are the one bringing in the Euro style here..."
Wrap-around shades and Audis playing thumping dance music on the Blaupunkt?

"...glad we believe in God..."
Good for you. It would be better if you were talking to me rather than the me in your head. I said nothing about faith in general, I was quite specific as to the type. If you drew a Venn diagram of "religion" and "crass biblical literalism" the latter would be a smaller circle within the former. It's that smaller circle I was talking about.

"Joe Liebermann declared his support of the Iraqui invasion the other day and low and behold there is one Arabic democracy in the region, Iraq as we see Egypt in chaos."
Hurray for him. I should note that I was initially for the war, until it became clear that they were agitating for it for false reasons (because advocation for reality-based reasons would reveal our complicity and support of his crimes) and that since the invasion was built on ideology over reality, they had no idea the shitstorm they were releasing nor did they have the contingency plans required to counter it. I kept hoping that they knew something I didn't, and it would've been one of those times I'd be glad to be wrong. But they didn't.
Also, we supported Hosni Mubarak for this thirty year reign, so you're comparing apples to apples and insisting that one is sour grapes. And, um, we also supported Hussein until he got off his leash (and was no longer politically useful), so we're on both sides of that country.
Note, too, that we don't so much support democracy, as we tend to support whatever's most profitable, most controllable and most stable (exceptions generally involve the disintegrating Soviet Bloc, in part because it was the commies, and the populist uprisers weren't exactly clamouring for despotism). That's why the history of the last century is positively riddled with despots, thugs and goons who "...may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch..." (Somoza for that quote, but the list includes Duarte, Pinochet, Pahlevi, Suharto, Baptiste, Montt, Noriega, Marcos, Hussein, Trujillo and others). The recent experiment happens to include democracy. It's a worthy evolution, and one which I hope continues (even though some will, and in the case of Palestine, have, inevitably vote for people we don't like)...although I hope further progress is made with not letting ideology trump reality (and going by what happened to the Right over both the Dubya era and, ahem, right after it, I'm not holding my breath).

"Save me your moral rants on that and let's not have any stalking per the baby killing murdering rapist scum of new mexico oh and job stealing too, make that genocidal. The stalking scum unidentified but I think they should be if they are."
What?

 
At 12:08 PM, Anonymous boltok said...

JG

When I am stuck at my computer and incredibly bored (but sometimes when I am not bored), I find arguing with the liberally insane to be entertaining. Surfing around helps me stay at my desk. Also, if I help one person overcome their pyschosis, I feel my time will have been well spent.

No offense to the author or the medium, but no one would pay me to comment on this or any other liberal site. If not self funded, the liberal media is collapsing all by itself. This rant acknoledges that and that is why I didn't feel the need to comment on Olbermann. Its all going down: Olbermann, Hot Air America, Salon, soon the NYTimes. Comcast will soon gut MSLSD as it tries to get ratings. Personal blogs and George Soros will be all that remains.

 
At 1:28 PM, Blogger Dearest Friend said...

It's disturbing to see people celebrating the fact that the liberal media is "collapsing." When I woke up this morning, I opened my eyes to my little bedroom in a town founded by people who came to this country for religious freedom in 1711. Here I am - living in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the Keystone State of the United States of America.

Within reach of my bed is a book with quotes from the founding fathers - Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, various Lees...Thomas Paine. Some were conservative, some were liberal.

One of the founding fathers did NOT sign the Declaration of Independence because he felt that there was a better way or addressing the grievances with our "mother country." His name - John Dickinson who was buried with honor in Wilmington, Delaware. John Adams himself who frequently disgreed with Dickinson's opinions and statements called him "one of this country's greatest patriots." When Dickinson left the Continental Congress for the last time after stating his disagreement with the idea of independence, he was applauded for his dignity and respect to them. He's also called the Father of the Constitution. Hmm...


All of these men had different views of how to do what needed to be done - I don't believe one of them CELEBRATED the fact that the other voices that they disagreed were being silenced.

The country was founded on the fact that people have the right to agree or disagree.

Funny, the Declaration stated "All men are created equal..." not "All conservatives are created equal..."

I do not understand why conservatives feel it necessary in this day and age to continue to verbally attack moderates or liberals.

Here's to Abigail Adams, Eleanor Roosevelt and a few other great ladies from our history that have given me the courage to speak out.

Mary

 
At 4:22 PM, Anonymous Browns44 said...

Hey every one, did you hear that
Keith Olbermann got fired by MSNBC!!!

 
At 10:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The one thing that amuses me is how the right wing responders on here consider that anyone 1 degree to the left of their position is a liberal including all media and bloggers. Strange old world!

 
At 4:53 AM, Anonymous Edward R. Murrow said...

This instrument [television] can teach, can entertain, yes it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that men and women are determined to use it toward those ends. Otherwise it's nothing more than wires and lights in a box.

 
At 6:49 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

AFTERTHOUGHT:

Keith will be back this year on a network called "Current Television". I hope his presence there inspires cable companies to pick it up. Mine - at the moment anyway - does not get it.

 
At 10:59 AM, Anonymous Edward R. Murrow said...

"This instrument [Television] can teach, it can entertain; yes it can even inspire. but it can do so only to the extent that human beings are determined to use it toward those ends. Otherwise it's nothing more than wires and lights in a box."

 
At 6:19 AM, Blogger Tom Degan's Daily Rant said...

UPDATE 6/18/11:

Keith's new program debuted on Current TV last night.

Whoopee!

 

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