Tuesday, April 15, 2014

Obamacare: Here to Stay

This reminds me of an uncomfortable political situation that existed nearly eighty years ago. In 1935, just prior to Franklin Roosevelt's Social Security Act (or whatever the hell it was called) being signed into law, the conservatives in this country - within congress and without - went positively apoplectic, warning the populace that such an evil, communistic program would surely be the ruination of this grand and glorious land of ours. It didn't quite work out that way. In fact, eight decades later the ideological descendants of the naysayers of that bygone era would have us believe that they invented Social Security. One of the reasons they dare not come out against it publicly is that to do so would be a form of political suicide. After all, it has turned out to be very popular. The only thing the right wing can do these days is to try to "improve" it - like when George W. Bush attempted to have it put into the hands of privately owned corporations. Remember that?

Three decades later, when Lyndon Johnson brought us Medicare and Medicaid, once again the conservatives went ballistic. Ronald Reagan, at that time a washed-up "B" movie actor, even went as far as to record an entire long playing record (on RCA Victor!) warning his fellow countrymen and women on the danger "socialized medicine" posed for the land of the free. He closed out the LP by telling us:

"We are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children, what it once was like in America when men were free."

If you ever get a chance to listen to it, by all means do. You can find it on YouTube. It's right up there with The Sick Humor of Lenny Bruce for the title of "funniest record ever made".

Nearly a half century after Medicare and Medicaid came into existence, very few on the extremes of our national dialogue would dare to come out against it - at least not out in the open. We know that they would do anything humanly possible to turn back the clock to the way things were prior the moment when that "crippled bastard FDR ruined this country". Political realities being what they are, they have no other choice but to live with things as they are. That's life. That's what all the people say.

Which brings me to the Affordable Care Act. The term "Obamacare" was initially their term of derision. They knew damned well that if it ever became a reality regular working people like us would like it a whole lot - and that's what is happening. At the latest count there are seven million folks who have signed on. If that number gets any bigger (and it's going to get a lot bigger) the plutocracy's handmaidens will be hard pressed to find an excuse to do away with it.

They're gonna try, though. 

Their dilemma is this: How can they do away with Affordable Care without incurring the wrath of the millions of voters who are already benefiting from it? How will they be able to give it the ol' heave-ho without being blamed for its demise? How the hell will they be able to blame their desired destruction of Obamacare on the liberals?

How indeed. This is indeed a tricky one; I don't envy them their predicament, that's for sure! Maybe they can place the blame on Ted Kennedy. That ploy used to work untold wonders in bygone days. You are missed, Teddy - and not just by me.

In a letter to his brother written in October of 1952, a month before he was elected to the presidency, Dwight Eisenhower wrote that any political party which attempted to do away with the social safety nets put in place to make life a little more bearable for the American people would soon disappear forever.

Now you see them. Soon you won't

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY 


Eisenhower: Soldier and President
by Stephen E. Ambrose

My only problem with this book is biographer Ambrose's obvious hero worship of his subject. At times he gives Ike the benefit of the doubt where no benefit is deserved. He can be forgiven these transgressions. Eisenhower, with all his flaws, was undoubtedly a great and good man. His foreign policy sucked at times - but hey - who's perfect? It should be remembered that, domestically anyway, he was one of our best post-war presidents. My opinion is that he was the last Republican in the White House of any worth. This condensed version of an earlier, two-part bio is quite readable and enjoyable. 


At 6:03 PM, Blogger GreatAuntieHkat said...

Well said! Keep on typing, you so often make my day.

At 6:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it true that you have to have an ID in order to use Obamacare?

Is it true that it has to be a photo ID?

At 6:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Put this under the heading

According to a report in The New York Times, the Census Bureau has been directed to change the wording of its questions relating to health care coverage so that they can no longer be checked against the past three decades of data. According to the nonpartisan analysts and census officials The Times spoke with, this change will make it nearly impossible to accurately assess the effects of the Affordable Care Act has had on the number of Americans who have health insurance.

The changes will, however, likely have the effect of showing a reduction in the number of uninsured. This will not be the result of the effects of the law. Rather, according to the Census Bureau’s chief of the health statistics branch, the drop in uninsured is only going to be due to “the questions and how they are asked.”

At 7:18 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

I see ananymous has jumped on the opportunity to once again WHINE AND CRY about things he's already been proven wrong about. I know your "question" about needing a photo ID to get coverage relates to voting. Here's where you go down in flames. YOU NEED A PHOTO ID TO REGISTER TO VOTE.
The ACA is THE LAW.So far people who are actually involved love it. Suck it conservatives. The people one ONE battle. You can just get over it.

At 7:34 PM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Thank you, Auntie!

At 8:44 PM, Anonymous Vanessa said...


Will I be able to keep my doctor, plan, and save $2500 a year with the "Affordable" Care Act?

P.S - I am not one of your kind, i.e. freeloader who won't work.

At 11:47 PM, Anonymous "ananymous" said...


Do you know it's true that you have to have an ID in order to use Obamacare?

Is it true that it has to be a photo ID?

That's whining and crying? That's a loaded question?

Would you like data to prove to you that people "actually" involved with it, dont love it?

Since I shut you down with my answers to your last quest6on, you want to make risk being proved wrong again?

At 7:04 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, you never "shut me down", you just disregarded everything I said. I don't have to use a photo ID, I got a medical card in the mail. I DID have to use a photo ID AND my SS card to REGISTER to vote, and when I vote I sign next to my name and SS number on the sheet. One number, one vote. And lets see that "Data" and please provide the SOURCE, because we KNOW it's gonna be a conservative slant. Why do you not WANT this to work? Wouldn't it be better for everyone (except the insurance company shareholders)if it DID work?

At 9:12 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

"You have to have an ID in order to use Obamacare?"

Gee, I bet you need a Social Security card to draw Social Security too.

So what? How is that worse than not needing any ID for the GOP's "Let 'em Die" plan?

At 11:56 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Mozart said "...because we KNOW it's gonna be a conservative slant."

Like when I read your posts I know it's going to be a liberal slant. Should I then conclude that the information in your posts cannot be factual becuase it comes from a source who has a different opinion than I do? Apparently so on this blog. Tom used the same logic in the last one to dodge real debate.

Truth takes courage to deal with. The truth is that both ACA and SNAP are far more difficult processes to navigate than any voter ID proposal. Following an administrative process is too hard when engaging in a civil duty, but no problem when accepting a government handout. That's the truth.

Another truth... the reason Democrats are against it is the SAME reason Republicans are accused of being for it - it is in their best interest for increasing their voting base - those who live off of government handouts.

Anon is not whining and crying - that's ad hominem attack - something you're particularly fond of. No, he's saying stand and deliver. So far you haven't.

At 12:22 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

"stand and deliver. So far you haven't."

"ad hominem attack(s)"

"Truth takes courage to deal with."

"Following an administrative process is too hard when engaging in a civil duty(voting), but no problem when accepting a government handout. That's the truth."

Harley A.
With out a doubt, the best expression of truth and reality in responding to the positions expressed here by those who follow the left wing standards of the DNC/Liberal/Socialist point of view every posted on this blog!
With your permission, I'd like to quote you in the future.

At 1:49 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


"those who live off of government handouts"...meaning?

Not Wall Street? Not the military industrial complex? Not the corporate welfare hogs at the trough? Not Chris Christie’s buddy who was given the state pension fund for fun and profit?

Or do you mean only those who need food stamps, or those who want their earned Social Security and Medicare benefits?

Anon is not whining and crying - that's ad hominem attack - something you're particularly fond of. No, he's saying stand and deliver. So far you haven't.

Well, I have delivered. And note Chuckie’s reaction to the facts I gave after his demand to “PROVE IT”.

We know Chuckie is your ideological ally here and we understand you don’t wish to, or can’t, hold him to the same standards as those who offer proof of him being wrong.

Look how Chuckie handles the truth about the Koch agenda to strip us of our Social Security and Medicare, and to gut all Constitutional regulation and taxes. And note how Chuckie also ignored the evidence presented with “Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens”.

Here it is:

So let's just kill all conservatories and all of the wealthy, then wtf will you have to bitch about?

Better still, how will doing that make your miserably life any better?

… you baby brained liberal

And there you have it. Whining AND ad hominem attacks, as a response to factual evidence he demanded. That’s your boy being an asshole because I actually stand and deliver. (Now that is an ad hominem attack, albeit a true representation.)

But it’s OK if you’re Republican, right? Yes, that’s both the pattern and the message.

Those double standards need regular exercise, don’t they?

At 2:03 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...


"Those who live off of gov't handouts..." refers not to the legitimate uses of aid but a lifestyle of persistently being on the dole with no intent of getting off. And it happens far more often than would be admitted by most.

Also, I don't deny that gov't has illegitimately propped up banking, insurance, and finance vis-a-vis "too big to fail". Crony capitalism is alive and well. But, doesn't negate the former claim either...

Phillip - you are of course free to quote me. It is probably worth what you're paying for it!

At 4:05 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Harley, it took me about the same about of time to sign up for the ACA as it did to register to vote. MAYBE a half hour from leaving my house (we saw a councellor who helped FOR FREE)to getting home again. When you get your info from a people or a website that WANTS the ACA to fail, it's a "slant". My info comes from non biased sources, like ACTUAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE SIGNED UP AND PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Clearly you WANT this plan to fail, probably because you have enough money that you don't need it. Too many people do not have that luxury. And I love how you call it a "government handout" when for the first time people have to PAY for at least SOME their own insurance as opposed to just showing up at the ER and expecting the taxpayers to pay for it ALL. Romney called it "the deadbeats are now contributing" when he used the SAME PLAN in Mass. Stop being such a hypocrite and admit that you get your info from Fox news. Let me ask you this, DO YOU THINK THE BILLIONS WE GIVE EXXON/MOBILE IS SUBSIDES EVERY YEAR IS A "GOVERNMENT HANDOUT"? Where's the outrage?

At 8:12 PM, Anonymous Vanessa said...

Harry Reid wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy off his ranch to aid a China solar power firm that his son Tory represents.

Harry is nothing but a dirty Crony Crapitalist! How much money is in it for you Harry?

You are a dirty greedy pig Harry just like that insider trading c*nt Nancy Pelosi!

At 12:11 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Mozart -

It would be helpful if you'd read my post. I said there is certainly crony capitalism in play in our country. Agreed. Has nothing whatsoever to do with my argument but interesting red herring nonetheless.

ACA is most definitely a handout. It is a government mandate for insurance companies to ignore actuarial science and cover their costs in other ways - namely by passing along increases to those who are in higher income traunches and to corporate group policies. To say I want it to fail is silly and categorically nonsensical. It doesn't make sense to discuss success/failure without a context - it succeeds in doing what it was meant to do - transfer wealth. It is a huge success in that way. And, to be honest I don't feel extremely strongly about it. Again, I have no issue with those who are legitimately in need to get help. I feel, however, that many who are not particularly wealthy will be hurt by it.

Telling conservatives they get their information from Fox News (or Limbaugh, or Hannity, or Beck) got old a LONG time ago. It is not only cliche, it shows lack of creativity in your ad hominem - you need some new material. If you're interested in the truth, any TV news I get typically comes from Bloomberg or BBC. I don't watch Fox other than when channel surfing. In any event, my post had nothing to do with anything I saw on ANY news channel.

And to reiterate... Attacking an argument based on its source is an informal logical fallacy. Anyone who is interested in serious debate understands that - and understands it is a weak rhetorical effort to silence and not an effort to debate.

Ok, I'll give you ACA being easier than a voter ID (feeling generous). How about SNAP? I've actually researched it - careful...

At 1:02 AM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...


In reading your post I was struck by something, that is the automatic assumption that any who disagrees with liberalism does so, in part, because their only source of the news is FOX News or conservative talk radio.

This insight truly exposes the lack of research and understanding that liberals have towards those that disagree with them. That the disagreement is only due to their source of the news, that if that source were eliminated, there would be nothing but liberal positions. The supporters of the ACA ignore actuarial science, I feel not in an attempt to provide health care for all, but to provide the mechanism of wealth transfer. The assumption being if all source of the news agreed with the liberal point of view, then liberalism would be successful.

That smacks of Marxism, which by my simply saying so will bring down the wrath of DD upon me, but what other economic platform has as its center piece for implementation the transferring wealth?

At 2:41 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Harly , using a term like "Ad Hominen" got old a long time ago. If you don't want to be accused of getting all your info from Fox, Limbaugh, etc, maybe you should stop regurgitating theor propaganda word for word. It's interesting that those people CLAIM high ratings, yet you can't find a person, especially conservatives that will admit to watching.
The ONLY place the ACA is failing is in the minds of conservatives. THose people that have signed up don't talk like that. You guys LOVED tjhios plan when Romney used it in Mass. But now that President "Blackenstien" has implimented it it's suddently BAD. ALL it is is a way for lower income people to be able to afford insurance, and a set of laws preventing the insurance companies from screwing people. IT costs less to the taxpayer than the previous system where the ENTIRE COST was passed on the the taxpayer.
Are YOU signed up? Here's betting you aren't. Well I AM, and I love it, so who's word should we accept here?

At 7:02 AM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...


If Mozart's response is any indication, it looks like you have met your match in the use of logic and basic debate skills. You need to stop regurgitating word for word FOX news, (I guess you were lying when you said it was not your source of the news) and start to get your news were Mozart does. Only then will you not be a racist hater of the poor living in your bubble cult world of white privilege . HA!

Get with the plan, "Harly" you just can't compete with the superior logic of Mozart. Plus now that he has looked up the meaning of "Ad Hominen" he has more time to spend attacking your character instead of answering your argument.


At 9:43 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Phillip -

You are right. The inability to seriously engage and to launch attacks like Mozart does is indicative of how a person become indoctrinated and incapable of seeing ANY point the "other side" would offer - like the fact that the voter ID would be far less cumbersome to obtain than signing up for food stamps. That is simply a fact, and an important one at that. The irony is he believes it is I who am indoctrinated. I wouldn't hold all of the left as a bunch of Mozarts. I have left-leaning friends with whom I can collegially debate. And, ones who appear to have SOME sense that our government is so far over-extended that something has to give. And, when it does, it will be the poor that get hurt the worst.

He chooses to ingore the fact that I am against crony capitalism, am against corporate personhood, and am for the legitimate use of government welfare programs, not a fan of Bush's wars, etc... None of that matters because I hit on a couple of talking points that raise red flags among the indoctrinated left - that is voter ID and/or ACA. What's even funnier is the ACA benefits the "too big to fail" insurance companies more than anyone in the argument. The same ones that donated hundreds of thousands to Obama.

And, all he's got is "hey, quit getting your talking point from Fox News". And says "you guys" as if I'm part of some club. It is telling because he assumes that I dogmatically hold to the Republican party - as he does the Democrats. When, if fact, I don't. My values and beliefs are more complex than any party platform.

The reason I continue to engage the futility is that THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Our country is ignoble and incapable of self-governance because our voting base has lost significant moorings. The argumentation - even among our leadership - is woefully corrupted and wrong-minded.

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” - W. Churchhill

At 10:25 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

And, all that said, I desire for Mozart to have good healthcare. Let's keep that straight...

At 12:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"More than two dozen widows who were married to retired Madison county employees, lost their health insurance coverage earlier this year. And now one commissioner says it's time to give it back to them. The change was sparked by the new federal health care law, but whether or not coverage can actually be restored really isn't clear,"

"Madison county commissioner Roger Jones says no one realized just how much the new federal health care law would change things, especially for the spouses of some of his former employees."

"A lot of these people are on fixed incomes, low fixed incomes. Some of them are living on Social Security and very little else and health insurance is very important to them," says the county commissioner.

"The widows who were dropped in January had always been covered under the county's old self-insured health care plan. But officials tell us the program had to be abandoned when they were informed that new regulations in Obamacare would amount to an extra $25 million dollars per year, money that chairman Dale Strong says the county simply didn't have,"

At 1:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I too desire Mr. Mozart to have good health care. I hope he would answer these two questions about his current health care insurance.

What is better about your ACA policy that the health insurance policy you had before?

Since signing up for the ACA have you had to use it?

At 2:26 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Good to see Anonymous Chuckie showing support for government retirees and spouses. Or is this only a concern because of Obamacare?

Of course it is. If the GOP governor cut those ssame benefits, it would all be OK, right?

Keep up the double standards. It's the "Right" thing to do.

At 5:24 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, what's better is that since my wife and I are both workinf for places that do not offer insurance,and individual policies were WAAAYY beyond expensive, this "income based" system allws us to actually get insurance. And secondly, YES, I have used it. Got a full body checkup at a hospital two blocks from my home, as opposed to "iowacare" which we used before, which required me to travel 40 miles to Iowa City. It is a GREAT system. Now you answer one. Are YOU signed up, or are you just whining and crying because Rush Limbaugh TOLD you it was bad like you usually do?

At 5:27 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Hey Phillip. do you have anything relevent to say, or are you just going to post "limbaughesque" snarky attacks?

I get MY News from dozens of sources, not just the ONE like you conservatives do.

At 5:43 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Mr. Mozart, what no use of an "Ad Hominen"?
Will you "stand and deliver" to these
"What is better about your ACA policy that the health insurance policy you had before?

Since signing up for the ACA have you had to use it?" So far you haven't.

I have complete faith that you will stand and deliver soon, since you have the courage needed to deal with the truth.

At 5:51 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Hey Phillip Morris, try READING sometime. I already answered both of those questions. Clearly, like "Anonymous" you WANT the ACA to fail, but it's just not working out for you. It's not only succeeding, but it's more popular than even Obama and the Dems hoped for. Sorry.

At 7:14 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

A little Liberal humor:

A group of guys lived and died for their Saturday morning round of golf. One got transferred to another city. It wasn't the same without him.

A new woman joined their Club.

She overheard the guys talking about their golf round. She said,

"You know, I used to play on my golf team in college and I was pretty good. Would you mind if I joined you next week?"
The three guys looked at each other. Not one of them wanted to say 'yes', but she had them on the spot. Finally, one man said it would be okay, but they would be starting early -- at 6:30 a.m.

He figured the early tee-time would discourage her. The woman said this may be a problem, and asked if she could be up to 15 minutes late. They rolled their eyes, but said okay. She smiled and said, "Good, I'll be there at 6:30 or6:45."

She showed up at 6:30 sharp, and, playing right-handed, beat all three of them with an eye-opening two-under-par round. She was fun and a pleasant person, and the guys were impressed. Back at the clubhouse, they congratulated her and invited her back the next week. She smiled, and said, "I'll be there at6:30 or 6:45."

The next week she again showed up at 6:30 sharp. Only this time, she played left-handed. The three guys were incredulous as she still beat them with an even par round, despite playing with her off-hand. They were totally amazed.They couldn't figure her out.

She was again very pleasant and didn't seem to be purposely showing them up.They invited her back again, but each man harbored a burning desire to beat her.

The third week, the guys had their game faces on. But this time, she was 15minutes late, which made the guys irritable. This week the lady again played right-handed, and narrowly beat all three of them. The men mused that her late arrival was due to petty gamesmanship on her part. However, she was so gracious and so complimentary of their strong play, they couldn't hold a grudge.

Back in the clubhouse, all three guys were shaking their heads. This woman was a riddle no one could figure out. They had a couple of beers, and finally, one of the men asked her point blank, "How do you decide if you're going to golf right-handed or left-handed?"

The lady blushed, and grinned

"That's easy," she said. "When my Dad taught me to play golf, I learned I was ambidextrous. I like to switch back and forth. When I got married after college, I discovered my husband always sleeps in the nude. From then on,I developed a silly habit. Right before I left in the morning for golf practice, I would pull the covers off him. If his you-know-what was pointing to the right, I golfed right-handed; if it was pointed to the left, I golfed left-handed."

The guys thought this was hysterical.. Astonished at this bizarre information, one of the guys shot back, "But what if it's pointing straight up?"

She said, "Then, I'm fifteen minutes late."

At 7:25 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

"Clearly, like "Anonymous" you WANT the ACA to fail"

Really? and you determined that by my tow question regarding your personal experience with the ACA?

Do you understand that I'm helping pay for you and your wife's health insurance policy's, and as such might have a vested interest in how well my money is being used for you?
As for my insurance, well let's just say I've taken care of that

At 8:40 PM, Anonymous Cliven Bundy on Harry Reid said...

"I don't think there is any hope for him, he needs to be kicked out of office."

"And yes, that young girl holding up the ObamaCare sign on Tom Degans Rant, who wouldn't like something they got for free from the blood, sweat, and tears of others?. She is just an ignorant person who gets free stuff from the DemocRat Party in exchange for voting for these plantation masters."

At 9:57 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

The Radical Right Bubble Cult (RRBC) has a new prophet in “Clive” Bundy.

"I believe this is a sovereign state of Nevada," Bundy said in a radio interview. "I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing."

Cliven Bundy needs to read the Nevada Constitution.

All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

“Clive” Bundy, radical extremist of the far Right, is defying the laws of the United States of America and the clear constitutional directives of the State of Nevada. He’s also a babbling ideological idiot. Not to mention a freeloading welfare king.

Yup, he’s one of them “Takers” we’ve been warned about.

Free-loader Bundy has been grazing his cattle on public land for decades, as if he were a Welfare King entitled to profit from public lands without paying his required fees.

Bundy’s spittin’ mad after being a “victim” of government “tyranny”. Translation: He’s angry at the government for charging fees to graze his cattle on public land. So he hasn’t paid them.

Of course that means talk radio, Militia cults, Tim McVeigh’s old buddies, Breitbart.con, FOX(R) and the rest of the RRBC must revere him, and dutifully disseminate his hateful stupidity.

These Right Wing pseudo-patriots who spout about respecting the Constitution are the same ilk as pseudo-Christians like Chucke. They invoke the Constitution or Bible, but obviously don’t care to closely read either one.

As we know, Chuckie needed to be shown that “Love your enemies” was in the Bible, and “Our father” means we are all children of God. He really didn’t believe what I said about that, and even demanded proof. And we know how mad he got when I showed him the proof he demanded of the Koch agenda.

Bundy is another such “holier than thou”, hateful, ignorant, hypocrite.

At 10:17 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

And Phillip, as taxpayers we are helping to pay for others. I for one would rather help pay for a poor person's heathcare, or to see that they have a healthy meal a day, than to give BILLIONS every year to oil and drug companies.You WHINE AND CRY about healthcare, but where's your outrage over billion dollar corporations paying NO TAXES and getting BILLIONS in government subsidies? NO, you WANT the ACA to fail, because if it succeeds so does the Black President you hate so much.

At 11:47 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Sixty-one percent of respondents in a poll released Thursday said Obama lies at least some of the time on important issues. An additional 20 percent said he lies every now and then.

Only 15 percent believe the president is completely truthful.

And of course I believe with all my heart and soul that 8 million Americans have singed up for ACA like Obama today said they had.

"NO, you WANT the ACA to fail, because if it succeeds so does the Black President you hate so much."
Mozart, that's the kind of ad hominen I have come to love and expect from you when you can't carry a logical debate. (which is most of the time)
For a while there I thought you had lost your touch. Good to see my concerns where for naught.

At 9:39 AM, Anonymous Clyde Bundy said...

Nothing like a fresh bowl of Desert Tortoise soup!

At 9:53 AM, Blogger Kelly Cowan said...

The GOP/TP are using the exact same talking points that they used in their losing battle against medicare, word for word. They just dusted off the old John Birch Society playbook, change the word communism to the word socialism and are running with it.

At 10:04 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


Chicken Chuckie ran from your truth and falsely accused you of "ad hominem" attack. You are correct. He very much wants the ACA and the Black President to fail. His hate has been clearly on display at all times. Remember that fool of a chump thinks Obama and all liberals are EVIL commies. (Call it ad hominem, but facts support that assessment.)

AND he reveres that militia nut Bundy as a "patriot". Funny how the same assholes who hate the Federal Government under a black president loved it when their boy Bush started wars. That goes far to explain their belligerent nature.

You have won your point.

At 2:59 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Phillip Morris...

"61% in a poll said..."

WHAT poll? Given by WHOM? WHO was polled? How were the questions formed?

I could just as easily say all but one of the people on this board think you are a sore loser grasping at straws (Strawmen?) to save face.

I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the ACA, and you are getting YOUR info from Fox news. Who's word should we take?

At 3:41 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Polling data indicates that the majority of Americans do not approve of the ACA. I guess that's why it's mandated, as if it were not, would anyone sign up for it? Based on the marketing being used to attract enrollments, the fact that someone else will be a part of the insurance premium seems to be the ACA's biggest draw.
Even with someone else paying a part of your premiums and with Tom, DD and Mozart claiming the ACA is popular, the polls do not support that claim. It MAY be here to stay, but it is not loved by the majority of Americans.

CNN/ORC 57% do not favor 39% favor

Real Clear Politics 52.2% do not favor 39.8% favor

Ramussen 58% unfavorable only 28% think health care under ACA will get better.

CBS 53% negative 41% positive view of ACA

George Washington poll 53% negative 43% positive

Kaiser Family Foundation 46% negative 38 positive of ACA

PEW 53% negative, 41% favor

The problem for the DNC is this NOV. They know these figures are correct, yet they have to run on Obamacare to satisfy their base. In typical liberal form, being opposed to the ACA makes you a racist hater of the poor, a worshiper of money and a tool of the rich who gets their information from FOX News and Limbaugh. No surprise there.

I agree with Harley's statement that:
"The ACA is most definitely a handout. It is a government mandate for insurance companies to ignore actuarial science and cover their costs in other ways - namely by passing along increases to those who are in higher income trenches and to corporate group policies. To say I want it to fail is silly and categorically nonsensical. It doesn't make sense to discuss success/failure without a context - it succeeds in doing what it was meant to do - transfer wealth. It is a huge success in that way. And, to be honest I don't feel extremely strongly about it. Again, I have no issue with those who are legitimately in need to get help. I feel, however, that many who are not particularly wealthy will be hurt by it."

A statement that so far the only rebuttal offered has been attacking your character instead of answering your argument. Nothing to defend the ACA, only attacks on those who provide data showing its failure, their sources of information, it's unpopularity and claiming they lack a charitable heart.

At 4:03 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Having looked up Phillips "Poll" I discovered two FACTS that Phillip doesd not mention. ONE, The numbers of supporters are CLIMBING as more and more people get personal experience and TWO many of those "opposed" think THE LAW DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH.
One more example of a conservative spinning numbers and concealing the FACTS that do not coincide with his agenda.
Now we can argue this till the end of the Earth and one FACT will always remain. THE ACA IS WORKING.

At 4:11 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie’s full of himself as usual. He also ignores reality as usual. That reality is most Americans don’t think like he does. I never loved Obamacare either, and have expressed my disagreement. I suggested an alternative, unlike the shills for the GOP. That is far from agreeing with Chuckie’s minority view.

First of all Obamacare approval is rising as more people learn about it.


The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll shows Americans split on Obamacare, 49 percent in support, 48 percent opposed.

The trend is heading in the direction of more approval, as Americans become more informed by the facts instead of Right Wing propaganda.

Second, Chuckie forgets many of us don’t love Obamacare because it’s a Right Wing hatched corporatist giveaway.


CNN Poll:

"Not all of the opposition to the health care law comes from the right," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Thirty-nine percent say they oppose the law because it's too liberal, but 12% say they oppose it because it's not liberal enough."

39%, a clear minority, think Obamacare is too liberal. I’ve asserted this facet of the issue before, but Chuckie needs to ignore so many facts in order to cling to his far Right, ignorance-ridden ideology.

So what is Chuckie crowing about? Apparently he’s celebrating his ignorance again.

At 7:06 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Mr. Mozart,
These polls are less than 15 days old

"He also ignores reality as usual. That reality is most Americans don’t think like he does."

Prove that most Americans dont think as I, Phillip Morris, do.
More attacking my character instead of answering my argument or acknowledging the facts presented.

Did either of you even read what I posted? Your replies don't seem to indicate that was the case.

At 9:52 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Phillip, you got caught lying AGAIN. Just own it OK? I looked up the most recent polls and tole the WHOLE story, not just the 1/3 of it that LOOKED like it supported your agenda.

The fact is that Obamacare is the LAW. It's WORKING and as people get signed up they start realizing what a good thing it is. Not perfect mind you, but the best Obama could do.

I would ask you to prove that "most Americans" think LIKE you do. No worries because they don't. Fox news is very good at saying "Americans" are opposed to such and such... which LOOKS like they speak for ALL, but in reality they speak for probably less than 10%. Not that it's exactly a LIE since that 10% ARE "AMericans", but certainly NOT a majority, since Obama was re elected by people who do NOT agree with Fox news.

AS the actual polls showed. approval for the ACA is growing as people get the FACTS, and that a large percentage of those "opposed" do do because the law DIN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

But you go on misrepresenting the facts like a good dittohead Phillip, we'll keep shooting you down.

At 11:03 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...


That's why it had to be mandated?

At 3:22 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Phillip, you are REALLY stretching. Give up. You lost this one. Yes. It's working. Get past it. Go whine about Benghazi or the IRS.

At 8:18 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Go whine about Benghazi or the IRS.


Social Security and Medicare are working too. Chuckie and the Kochs say "Let em die".

Are the Kochs still telling lies about their dupe Julie not saving money with Obamacare?

At 9:19 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

Michael Bloomberg is dumping $50 million into an election-year campaign to target his political enemies and—this is a direct quote—“make them afraid of us.”

It is OK if Bloomberg or other rich liberals spend money to exercise their right to free speech, but that out of tune Mozart and Dave Dubya crap their red diapers when the evil Koch brothers spend money.

When it is really lame to still blame Bush for the failures of the black guy, blame the Koch brothers.

I bet in Dave Dubya's youth and when his family ordered a pizza, Dave would get out a ruler and recut the pizza to make sure everybody got an equal share LOL LOL!

At 10:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ACA, you will love or else!

At 11:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's there not to love?

MOUNTAIN VIEW (KPIX 5) – While open enrollment for coverage under the Affordable Care Act is closed, many of the newly insured are finding they can’t find doctors, landing them into a state described as “medical homelessness.”

Rotacare, a free clinic for the uninsured in Mountain View, is dealing with the problem firsthand.

Mirella Nguyen works at the clinic said staffers dutifully helped uninsured clients sign up for Obamacare so they would no longer need the free clinic.

But months later, the clinic’s former patients are coming back to the clinic begging for help. “They’re coming back to us now and saying I can’t find a doctor, “said Nguyen.

Thinn Ong was thrilled to qualify for a SUBSIDY on the health care exchange. She is paying $200 a month in premiums. But the single mother of two is asking, what for?

“Yeah, I sign it. I got it. But where’s my doctor? Who’s my doctor? I don’t know,” said a frustrated Ong.

Nguyen said the newly insured patients checked the physicians’ lists they were provided and were told they weren’t accepting new patients or they did not participate in the plan.

And Nguyen says – while the free clinic isn’t technically supposed to be treating former patents they signed up for insurance, they can’t in good faith turn them away.

Dr. Kevin Grumbach of UCSF called the phenomenon “medical homelessness,” where patients are caught adrift in a system woefully short of primary care doctors.

At 12:25 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

a system woefully short of primary care doctors.

But the Righties tell us we have the "best health care system" in the world.

So which is it? Don't tell me this is yet MORE Right Wing double standards.

Double standards and hypocrisy are their specialty.

And they are so special they get to have it BOTH ways. In their arrogance, they can't imagine we see their hollow sham.

Never mind. "Let 'em die" is still all they have for an answer.

Isn't that right, Chuckie?

At 1:36 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Smokey "...out of tune Mozart..." Wow, you must be all the way to the 4th grade now. And and Anonymous, just because SOME doctors are VINDICTIVE and refuse to participate is not the fault of the ACA, IT'S THE FAULT OF BACKWARD THINKING VINDICTIVE DOCTORS. How can it be the fault of the insurance plan? They are the same insurance companies that have always been around, and medicare isn't exactly new. Funny, here in Iowa I called the first doctor close to me and got right in. NO problem. I notice that as usual you didn't provide a specific source of your "article. WHat state are we talking aboout here?

At 1:40 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Yeah Anonymous, I did a little research and the only people CLAIMING this is true are FOx news and a couple ultra righty sites. GO figure. Here's betting it's bullshit. Wouldn't be the first time the right has made up a scandal out of whole cloth.

At 2:57 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

No. I can't allow Mozart's claim that ACA works for him to stand as fact. Sorry. He is a liberal source and I disclaim any statements coming from liberal sources. That's the way it works on Tom's blog. Sorry, folks... rules are rules.

At 4:02 PM, Blogger Rebecca Barton said...

It's very funny down here in the south these days....
A whole lot of "good,rightous, patrotic people, the very ones that always vote in every election, are frankly quite bewildered.

Confused, frightened, and stupified to the core....
beginning to see people they love doing without....

Without expanded Medicaid coverage for 100's of thousands of low-income and disabled Georgians.

Without food stamps....

Old timers tend to re-think things when they or their "own" can't eat or get well.

At 5:25 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Harley, I know this is going to ruin your day, but I could not care less whether you accept my statements or not. I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE vs. you and Anonymous' HEARSAY, so I'll go with that. YOu can believe whatever Rush Limbaugh tells you to believe. It does not hurt me one bit.

At 6:29 PM, Anonymous Harry said...

Just as Obama was apparently unaffected by the world's realities when he was supposed to be growing up, he still seems content to live in his own fantasy world.

Credit where due though, up to now he has been able to talk his way into significance - even if his significance is highly negative to those who value western civilization and well, heck, just the real world.

Doesn't take a seer to forsee all this world turmoil in Russia and the Middle East boiling over into yet another Obama family vacation extravaganza to hang out with the 1 percenters after another blah-blah or two about concern for the poor (raise the minimum wage, hey while you are at it why not just raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour) and the dangers of CO2 that his private jets spit out in gargantuan amounts.

His main base, the LIFs can't recognize the hypocrisy and the MSM won't help.

At 6:43 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Thank you Harry. You are obviously a bright and informed person.

Please tell us more of the problem of gargantuan amounts of CO2 in out atmosphere.

And explain the political influence of the one percent.

And be sure to explain the ongoing civil war in Iraq that flooded Syria with refugees and destabilized that country.

And why is Iraq now in the sphere of Iranian influence.

And tell us about Putin and the former US president who "looked into his soul" of his buddy "Vlad".

And thank you for sharing the fact that voters are ill-informed by a corporate media that is corporate owned, corporate biased, and must never offend its corporate advertisers.

At 7:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NOT HEARSAY,, ACA is so wonderful, it requires being mandated to get it's customers.

At 10:11 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous , you lost this fight a long time ago. Now you are just sad. But theen what can you expect? Your heros have voted to repeal what? FIFTY TIMES NOW? How much time and MONEY have they wasted just to keep people from getting healthcare?

At 10:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

8 million have now signed up for ACA, how many have paid any thing?

People are in love with the ACA.

CBS Poll 53% negative 41% positive view of ACA

If you like your current insurance plan, you can keep it.

If you like your Dr, you can keep the them

"While open enrollment for coverage under the Affordable Care Act is closed, many of the newly insured are finding they can’t find doctors, landing them into a state described as “medical homelessness.” What is it going to be like when the 31 million Americans who had no insurance all have insurance as mandated by the ACA?

Was this a problem before the much "loved" ACA went into effect?

Secretary of HHS Kathleen Sebelius claims "there is absolutely no evidence" that health reform is killing jobs.

CBO Economic Outlook warned that ObamaCare by 2021 will cause "a reduction in full-time-equivalent employment of about 2.3 million. Jobs are jobs.

Let the defense by Ad Hominen begin from Mozart and DD.

Mean while in other breaking news:
86,429,000 Americans who worked full-time, year-round in the private sector, included 77,392,000 employed as wage and salary workers for private-sector enterprises and 9,037,000 who worked for themselves in 2012. There were 151,014,000 who "received benefits from one or more programs" in the fourth quarter of 2011. Subtract the 3,212,000 veterans, who served their country in the most profound way possible, and that leaves 147,802,000 non-veteran benefit takers.

Just like Harley tried to tell you

In George Orwell's "1984," "Doublethink" was the government's "conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty." (sounds like Mozart and DD's defense of ACA or anything for that matter)

At 1:58 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

ANonymous, it doesn't matter how many times you beat those old horses, they will still be DEAD. Obamacare is WORKING. YOU LOSE. Benghazi, NO SCANDAL. IRS, NO SCANDAL. Obama's a success in spite of all the efforts of your teabagging heroes. HE BEAT YOU, and America is the better for it. How long are you going to maintain this excercise in futility?

At 9:11 AM, Anonymous John D USN said...

Our Federal government is out of control,
Flushing our rights down the toilet bowl.
Opening our borders to illegal scum,
For more votes and corrupt-shun.

BLM just made a stand,
And the patriots came to the desert land.
BLM backed down, from round one,
Be vigilant America, this AIN”T done !

Fuhrer Obama and his parasites,
Destroying America is in their sights.
Spying on you spying on me,
This isn’t right in the ‘land of the free’ !

A land of sheep have we become?
The rule of law should be number one.
This old vet will die FREE,
And not upon a bended knee!

They want our guns and complete control,
And they know it won’t be an easy go.
Chip a little here, chip a little there,
Hoping we won’t be aware.

The oath I took for Vietnam,
Is still in effect to protect this land.
If you want my guns you see,
Look up the meaning of MOLON LABE !!

At 9:22 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Relax, John. Just relax.

At 9:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Doublethink" is the government's "conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty."

Thanks again Mozart for a example ob Doublethink

At 9:34 AM, Anonymous Jay Leno said...

"America needs Obamacare like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask."

At 9:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bet Mozart didn't get this in his OFA email

‘He raised $1B for campaign’: Dems seeking $100 million in taxpayer funds for Obama library.

Since FDR, every Presidential library has been built with private financing.
Until now.

At 9:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

White House asks American parents to
monitor their children for signs of terrorism

In a speech earlier this week, Lisa O. Monaco, President Barack Obama’s assistant for homeland security and counterterrorism, insisted that American parents must be vigilant because their “confrontational” children could be on the verge of becoming terrorists. She presented the speech, entitled “Countering Violent Extremism and the Power of Community,” at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government on April 15.

Or you can do a preemptive anti terrorism strike and call it an abortion! Paid for by ACA?

At 10:37 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

"He raised $1B for campaign’: Dems seeking $100 million in taxpayer funds for Obama library."

That's not true. That's not even remotely close to being true. You print these lies and distortions and expect us to swallow them whole.

You ought to stop watching Fox Noise. It's rotting your mind.


At 1:15 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Sorry Tom, looks like Anony is right.


You forgot the golden rule, Google before posting. Seems Obama wants a 500 million dollar library, a little pretentious in my opinion.

At 1:47 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Happy Easter.

I’d cower under “anonymous” if I were always wrong too.

Another example of anonymous Chuckie’s ignorance is his invoking the Orwellian term “doublethink”. Obviously he never read 1984.

This is a “patriot” in the doublethink of the radical Right.

"I believe this is a sovereign state of Nevada," Bundy said in a radio interview. "I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing."



The power to hold two completely contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accept both of them.

An excellent example of doublethink in modern society is the war on drugs. If you ask people their opinion on alcohol prohibition in the 1920s, most people would agree that it was a complete failure. People agree that it only caused more crime, it made gangsters rich, it corrupted politicians, and most importantly ... it didn't keep people from drinking.

Yet, we have almost the exact same situation today with war on drugs, yet most people think that our modern prohibition is a good idea

This word has made its way into the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

dou•ble•think , noun, Date: 1949 : a simultaneous belief in two contradictory ideas.

Here is how Winston Smith described doublethink in the novel:

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed.”

This is how a cult operates. This is the radical Right.

War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. The Party slogans of 1984 are perfect examples of doublethink.

“Freedom is slavery” is found in the Right’s class war. End the minimum wage. End worker rights of collective bargaining. End workplace safety regulations. Etc.

For “War is peace”, we thank the war-mongering president of the financial collapse. The Right pretends he never existed, yet accused us of treason and “siding with the terrorists” for calling him a liar.

“I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.” - George W. Bush

“Ignorance is strength” describes Chuckie’s passionate ideology and disregard for facts. It is a also a far more accurate motto than “fair and balanced” for the Right’s “Minitrue” FOX(R).

The radical Right cannot comprehend their similarity to the Party of 1984 as they invoke the name Alinksy, their “Goldstein”, in their version of “two minute hate” talk radio that fill our airwaves.

Speaking of presidential libraries, does anyone remember Bush Jr.’s cover-up of his father’s records, and his own legacy?

From the American Library Association

Executive order issued by President George W. Bush (Presidential Records Act Executive Order 13233) restricts access to the records of former presidents. The Office for Intellectual Freedom of the American Library Association (ALA) and The Freedom to Read Foundation (FTRF) urge librarians to alert their patrons and the public about this effort to close the public record.

Obama repealed that order.

At 1:53 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

BTW, Note Chuckie ignores the FACT that presidential libraries are operated through tax-payer funding.

Missing from his outrage:

While existing presidential libraries receive public money for operating expenses — $75 million was spent last year on the 13 existing libraries — start-up funds generally come from private donations.

They have no shame in their deception.

At 3:02 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous said:

"He raised $1B for campaign’: Dems seeking $100 million in taxpayer funds for Obama library."

Can you cite ONE legitimate news sourse that confirms this? All I can find are right wing blogs and radical sites.

Once again, Anonymous takes anything some right wing whacko says as gospel. Do you ever research ANYTHING?

Seriously, you lost the Obamacare argument and so you resort to THIS desparate attempt? Wow.

At 3:09 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous also said:

"White House asks American parents to
monitor their children for signs of terrorism"

Again, I can't find ONE legit news source, NOT EVEN FOX NEWS that confirms this claim. Anonymous must scan the internet daily for any whacko claim he can use, even if they are completely false. If some nutbag in Montana writed "Obama is a Martian" Anonymous will immediately post it.

At 4:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"White House asks American parents to
monitor their children for signs of terrorism" Here you are Mozart, is this legit enough for you?


He raised $1B for campaign’: Dems seeking $100 million in taxpayer funds for Obama library."
Mozart, maybe you should have read what your buddy DD just said before you confirm that you are a true low information voter. Notice the crickets coming from Tom since James Hansen handed him his face! Hey Tom, how about growing a pair and admitting you are dead wrong? Didn't think so, chicken.
"Can you cite ONE legitimate news sourse that confirms this?"
Thanks to James Hansen we have that site, with quotes from elected officials.

No deception, no one ever said operating funds didn't come from taxpayers for Presidential libraries, that's just you trying to deflect from the real story. Kind of like. Wonder if Clinton library has covered up any information? Like the blue dress? Or how his wife became a one time commodities trading expert?

Obama repealed that order! Wow the most transparent honest president in our history did that? Do you think the taxpayer funded Obama library will include in videos of his famous
"If you like your current insurance plan, you can keep it"

"Doublethink means, according to George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four:
"the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. ... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, (IF YOU LIKE YOUR INSURANCE PLAN, YOU CAN KEEP IT) and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

As Orwell explains in the book, the Party could not protect its iron grip on power without degrading its people and exposing them to constant propaganda. Yet knowledge of this brutality and deception, even within the Party itself could lead to disgusted collapse of the state from within, as the Soviet Union later fell in the late 20th century. For this reason, Orwell’s idealized government used a complex system of "reality control". Though the novel is most famous for its pervasive surveillance of daily life, reality control meant that the population could be controlled and manipulated merely through the alteration of everyday language and thought.

Newspeak was the method for controlling thought through language; Doublethink was the method of controlling thought directly."

At 4:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

At least four states where Democrats hold Senate seats that once were seen as fairly safe are now considered in play: Michigan, Iowa, Colorado and New Hampshire.

They join seven states with Democratic incumbents where analysts see decent bets for Republican pickups: Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, Montana, North Carolina, South Dakota and West Virginia. Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney carried all seven in 2012.

The new four are now battlegrounds for the same reasons that plague Democrats elsewhere. The Affordable Care Act is detested in many circles. Anyone associated with Washington is often toxic. And popular Republicans who are running for other offices are often on the ballot.

“The common thread is that there’s a Democrat in the White House who’s not that popular,” said Kyle Kondik, the managing editor of Sabato’s Crystal Ball, a nonpartisan research group at the University of Virginia. “It wouldn’t be surprising if any of those states went Republican.’

Thank you Obamacare! You're the best, people just love you.

At 5:23 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

We see Chuckie can't tell the difference between a false statement and doublethink. No surprise.

No deception

Exclusion of related facts is deception. This tactic is essential to the Right's destruction of reason.

Here's a great explanation of what conservatism really is. It illustrates the Right's need for the destruction of conscience, democracy, reason, and language.

If you want to better understand the Right, this is critical.

It's 30 pages long, so to get you started, here is the gist of it.

What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?
Philip E. Agre
August 2004

Liberals in the United States have been losing political debates to conservatives for a quarter century. In order to start winning again, liberals must answer two simple questions: what is conservatism, and what is wrong with it? As it happens, the answers to these questions are also simple:

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.

Read this and share it.

At 5:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Three years before Matt Drudge changed the world and how news would be consumed, President Bill Clinton's White House feared that the Internet (CREATED BY V.P. AL GORE, before he discovered man caused global warming was a better way to make money) was allowing average citizens, especially conservatives, to bypass legacy gatekeepers and access information that had previously been denied to them by the mainstream press.

The infamous 1995 "conspiracy commerce memo" tried to demonize and discredit alternative media outlets on the right to mainstream media organizations and D.C. establishment figures.

The memo notes that the "Internet has become one of the major and most dynamic modes of communication" and "can link people, groups and organizations together instantly."

"Moreover, it allows an extraordinary amount of unregulated data and information to be located in one area and available to all," the memo states. "The right wing has seized upon the Internet as a means of communicating its ideas to people. Moreover, evidence exists that Republican staffers surf the Internet, interacting with extremists in order to exchange ideas and information.”

The memo also states that conservative think tanks serve as a training ground for future leaders and says conservative institutions "are to today's media age of political organizations what the Democratic big city party machines were to the New Deal era of political organization"

The memo talks about the media frenzy, the blow back strategy, and slams outlets unfavorable to the Clinton White House as "sources without credibility" before calling Richard Mellon Scaife the "vanguard" of the conspiracy movement that spread stories and "theories" about Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, and Vince Foster.

Drudge forever changed journalism in January of 1998 when he reported that Bill Clinton had a sexual relationship with a White House intern and that Newsweek killed the story to protect its ally in the White House.

As former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who has pioneered the use of social media to get her message out, has said, the "new media rose up precisely because the old media failed to tell the truth."

"That very first new media breakthrough was about 15 years ago when this lowly little store clerk in a lowly little apartment equipped with his computer and a modem broke one of the biggest stories of the decade. His name was Matt Drudge and the rest is history," she said. Palin added that the establishment "denounced Drudge as irresponsible and unprofessional and even dangerous and anti-everything from motherhood to apple pie."

"How dare that nobody from nowhere without a degree or a pedigree try to influence the national discourse? But the real reason they feared him was because he wasn’t beholden to the old media’s machine and the Thought Police. Unshackled, he was free," Palin explained.

Could this be the reason behind the liberal fear of FOX news and other "non-legit" news sources?
Why would our govt. fear the Internet becoming one of the major and most dynamic modes of communication" which "can link people, groups and organizations together instantly"?

Why would our govt say the internet "allows an extraordinary amount of unregulated data and information to be located in one area and available to all,"?
Is it because our govt can not control this data and communication?
Sounds like the internet was an attack on "Newspeak" or legacy, govt approved news sources.

Thank you President Clinton

At 5:49 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous' desparation is showing. Notice how he's gone completely off topic? Pathetic really.

At 7:32 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


What, no death panels??

They dearly love their old lies too.

More of the Right's need for the destruction of conscience, democracy, reason, and language.

What else can we expect from an idiot who quotes Sarah Palin.

You betcha!


At 7:54 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

- George Orwell

“…the essence of conservatism is to deprive the common people of the capacity to engage in democracy.”

- Phil Agre

At 8:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Did Al Gore really say he invent the Internet?

See for your self.


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccleiastes 10:2

To the rest of your replies, responses and deflections.

It's just more of the same

Yada yada yada yada yada yada

Hey Tom

When are you going to return and eat a little crow?

See you in NOVEMBER, hope you got your "excuses for defeat machine" up and running.

At 9:52 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Mozart, it was a bit of humor. Calm down. It's not like I'm hanging on your every word either. I've moved past frustration and I now find you amusing...

Sorry, gotta go. Rush is on.

At 12:22 AM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Phillip Agre went missing on October 16, 2009, but was found in good health on January 16, 2010

Phil Agre is no longer a professor at UCLA.

Here are some reviews made by former students of former professor at UCLA, Phillip Agre.

"Ok. I'm usually pretty forgiving about bizarre professors, but this guy is out of control. He rarely looks students in the eye, and when he does it seems that it's out of a nervous need to see that there are actually students who came to lecture that day (also a rare occurance.) For this particular class, he came in the first day rambling on and on (his only lecture tactic, really) about how this class will be heavy on theory and light on technicalities. This is halfway true, but then he gives us this really vague writing assignment about how the Internet relates to a career we might be interested in. 3000 words. When he doesn't elaborate much further, we went to ask him pretty basic questions, such as simply wondering if his 3000 word benchmark is supposed to be the minimum or maximum. As if it were the most inane question he had ever heard, Dr. Agre simply says "I feel that this is a reasonable assignment and I see no need to elaborate." Oooookay.

If you're considering taking a class from this guy as part of your major and you have no choice, fine. But if you're simply considering taking his general education class, DON'T. Avoid this dude at all costs, seriously."

"The professor is boring and slightly crazy."

"The lectures are almost completely useless in writing our assignments. Our assignment is unbelievably vague, and no help is given explaining it. The professor constantly talks about needing "new ideas" in our essay, but seems to shoot down just about every idea we come up with, and seems to struggle himself giving examples."

Part of the review on his book "Computation and Human Experience"

"it (book) argues for a reorientation of the field away from thought in the head and towards activity in the world."

Oh yeah! Book of the month stuff for sure. DD, you got a signed copy?

Yup, I sure would quote him as an expert on conservatism! If I was desperate and belonged to the same brain washed left wing bubble cult as DD does, maybe.

Please DD, share some more "intellectual" stuff with us. Please!

Oh well, tomorrows Monday and Tom will change the subject and DD, Tom & Mozart will slip away into the bandwidth dodging from being shamed again.

Take it way Harley, one more time!

At 2:08 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Since Chuckie is unable to logically refute Agre, he needed to attack his character. Sound familiar?

Please DD, share some more "intellectual" stuff with us.

I’m glad he wants to see some more, (Which he will, of course ignore or scoff, but not dispute)

Let’s watch Chuckie fail to refute some more of Agre's truth:

People who believe that the aristocracy rightfully dominates society because of its intrinsic superiority are conservatives; democrats, by contrast, believe that they are of equal social worth. Conservatism is the antithesis of democracy. This has been true for thousands of years.
Conservatism in every place and time is founded on deception.

The opposite of conservatism is democracy, and contempt for democracy is a constant thread in the history of conservative argument. Instead, conservatism has argued that society ought to be organized in a hierarchy of orders and classes and controlled by its uppermost hierarchical stratum, the aristocracy.

Conservatism promotes (and so does liberalism, misguidedly) the idea that liberalism is about activist government where conservatism is not. This is absurd. It is unrelated to the history of conservative government. Conservatism promotes activist government that acts in the interests of the aristocracy. This has been true for thousands of years. What is distinctive about liberalism is not that it promotes activist government but that it promotes government that acts in the interests of the majority.

Keep shilling for your Kochs, Chuckie. They need chumps like you to carry their water and transmit their lies.

Say, we hear their girl Julie gets cheaper insurance under Obamacare…as she parrots the Koch lies.

“Conservatism in every place and time is founded on deception.”

Thanks for not only failing to dispute this, but for proving it, Chuckie.

At 2:25 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

NOtice now how ALL the conservatives have gone completely off topic in their desparation?

BTW Al Gore was instumental in making the internet available to the general public.

Is there AMNY old chestnut you guys won't go back to?

"OH YEAH? Well How about THIS?"


At 9:31 AM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Hey Mozart, notice how Dave keeps going off topic?

Oh goody, DD's going to quote some more from discredited former UCLA Prof Agres.

At 9:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing DD and Mozart want us to accept the words of Phillip Agre, as gospel, but to ignore polls from a variety of sources showing what Americans really think about Obamacare.

At 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obamacare, so beloved in GA that 50% of the enrollees haven't paid yet.
Do you think the IRS is going to send in the troops from BLM to collect the premiums?

At 11:30 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

"Let’s watch Chuckie fail to refute some more of Agre's truth"

How about first we see Agre demonstrate it beyond a dogmatic assertion. Far from truth, his words sound like absurd sweeping generalizations to me (e.g. - "The opposite of conservatism is democracy".)

At 11:31 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

We'd love to see more "discredited" truth that Chuckie has repeatedly exemplified.

Let's see Chuckie deny this truth, that is about Chuckie himself, from Agre:

"...indiscriminately calling liberals communists is back in style."

Gee, where would a person get that "discredited" impression? LOL!

Run, Chicken Chuckie, run from the truth.

How about that discredited Koch ad with the lie from the Koch's stooge Julie who got cheaper insurance from Obamacare?

Run, Chicken Chuckie, run from the truth.

Poor Chicken Chuckie, still running from the truth of Agre's words that he himself repeatedly proves to be correct.

Little does he realize he is again demonstrating in plain view the conservative attempt to destroy reason.

It illustrates the Right's need for the destruction of conscience, democracy, reason, and language.

Agre nailed it.

A four year old, or a crazy person, can both speak the truth. Agre is neither. But Chuckie can't debate the points at all. They are true, no matter who speaks them, and Chuckie is helpless against that fact.

Chuckie must flee from it, distract from it, or deny it, while all along, proving what we say.

Watch him go shill for his aristocratic masters some more, like a good little authoritarian chump.

In Chuckie's cult, the Kochs are too poor and under-represented and the poor are too rich and over-represented. This is the cold blooded reptilian heart of con-servatism.

And above all "Ignorance is strength".

At 11:41 AM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

"The professor (AGRE)is boring and slightly crazy".
Student of former Prof at UCLA, Phillip Agre.

Sounds like the perfect person to support liberalism.

At 11:47 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Is the GOP expanding or restricting voter registration and access to the polls?

Have they purged eligible voters from the rolls?

Have they gerrymandered districts so that even though many more Americans voted for democratic representation, the GOP controls the House?

Who fought to preserve slavery, Northern liberals or Southern conservatives? Who opposed women suffrage, liberals or conservatives? Which Supreme Court justices struck down the Voting Rights Act, liberals or conservatives? Which Supreme Court justices promote corporate personhood, and allow their money in our elections and government as unlimited "free speech", liberals or conservatives?

Now would you explain how "The opposite of conservatism is democracy" is an absurd sweeping generalization?

And while you're at it, why do you tacitly allow Chuckie's truly absurd sweeping generalization that liberals are commies?

At 11:50 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

So what Chuckie Alinsky is saying is:

"Bwaaack! Buck, buck, buckaww!"

Run, Chuckie, run.

At 3:33 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...


Isn't it refreshing to see how DD replies to your post about former UCLA Prof. Agre? So innovative, so incise, so on topic, so fearless.. of him! A true intelligent defender of liberalism, that's our DD for sure.

So predictable.

Note how DD now falls back to claiming he wants debate, in a pig's eye he does.

At 3:56 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

The Real GOP Death Panels at work.

A victim of the right's war on Obamacare

Ms Dill, a 32-year-old Florida mother of three with a history of heart problems, collapsed and died in a stranger's house while working as a vacuum cleaner salesman - one of her three part-time jobs.

Ms Dill had stopped taking prescription medication for her condition after she no longer qualified for Medicaid - the government health-care programme for the poor - because her yearly income of $9,000 was above the maximum amount to qualify for coverage.

And now the painful question: Was her death preventable? Those who have spread word of her story argue that it was.

You see, Ms Dill would have been covered by Medicaid if Florida had taking advantage of federal funding to expand the programme under the Affordable Care Act.
Congress had intended for the expansion to be mandatory, but in 2012 the Supreme Court ruled that states could choose to opt out - and 21 states, thanks largely to Republican efforts, have done so. In those states, there is a gap in coverage for those who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but too little to receive insurance subsidies provided by the Affordable Care Act - a gap into which an estimated 5 million Americans fall.

"Dill's death was not unpredictable, nor was it unpreventable," writes the Orlando Weekly's Billy Manes, who first publicised the story.

Truthout's Thom Hartmann agrees.
"Florida Governor Rick Scott is now officially a killer, and Charlene Dill is one of his victims," he writes. He accuses Republicans of playing politics with people's lives and sacrificing Dill in the interest of scoring political points.
"Republicans say that they're pro-life, but that's a bald-faced lie, because they refuse to let low-wage working Americans have access to life-saving Medicaid," he writes. "If Rick Scott and his Republican buddies in the Florida legislature are really the Christians they claim they are, then they're going to burn in hell. Deservedly."

Female-driven network Women on the Move published an emotional letter from Dill's best friend, Kathleen Voss Woolrich, in which she urges voters to remember her friend when heading to the polls:

You see the main argument Republicans use is that it's some lazy person who needs Medicaid expansion. That those of us living without healthcare or dental care are lazy. But my friend a single beautiful mother worked three jobs. She paid taxes. She paid her house taxes. And now she's dead.

At 4:01 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Isn't it refreshing to see how Chuckie never replies to anything at all? The last thing he wants is reasonable debate.

So predictable.

All Chuckie Alinsky is saying is:

"Bwaaack! Buck, buck, buckaww!"

Run, Chuckie, run.

Poor Chicken Chuckie, still running from the truth of Agre's words that he himself repeatedly proves to be correct.

Little does he realize he is again demonstrating in plain view the conservative attempt to destroy reason.

It illustrates the Right's need for the destruction of conscience, democracy, reason, and language.

Agre nailed it.

At 4:45 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

DD -

I don't know who "Chucky" is. Is it the person who posts under "Chuck Morre" or is it a more general term that encompasses a wider group of anonymous posters? I don't see any record of Chuck Morre on this particular string, though I could have missed it. Anyway, if he did equate liberalism with communism (I don't know whether he did or not) I would take issue and say that was a generalization without warrant.

As to my tacitly giving him a pass (if I did), I don't think failure to call out every instance of occurance of a particular mistake in argumentation is tacit approval - that's argument from silence. And, couldn't I ask you the same in reverse in this particular instance? I don't see the point...

You asked for Agre's words to be discredited. I simply observed that his words were absurd generalizations that belonged in the category of opinion - not implicit fact.

So, let's take the first statement in the excerpt:

"People who believe that the aristocracy rightfully dominates society because of its intrinsic superiority are conservatives..."

There is no logical connection he makes here - because he can't. It's an opinion based on his observations and (I believe) his own pre-conceived notions. Perhaps there are conservatives who believe such a thing (I'm guessing some aristocrats do for sure) but there are certainly liberal aristocrats who feel the same way and plenty of conservatives who DON'T believe such a thing.

And, it is an iteresting concept coming from a university man, when our nation's universities (the centers where our kids are instructed) are monolithically liberal ideologically, barring a smattering of exceptions. One of the more powerful entities in the free-world is patently liberal and wields enormous sway over the minds of the highly educated class - which tends to overlap with the aristocracy...

At 4:45 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, your polls DID show what people think, but YOU are misrepresenting them, because MOST of those who were forced by the wording of the questions to choose "opposed" were only "opposed" BECAUSE THE LAW DID NOT GO FAR ENOUGH!!!
Typical conservative spin. As for your professor, can we have the political offilliations of the "students" who critisized him? You always post things without showing sources.

At 6:23 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


I would take issue and say that was a generalization (commie) without warrant.

Thank you. Now watch how often that will happen. The commie card comes out nearly every thread. And by seeing this, you would agree with the point Agre has made.

The person calling himself Chuck Morre, now “Phillip Morris”, has posted under numerous identities and as anonymous. I know this because he did so at my blog. If there are others, they are indistinguishable from “Chuckie”, so they would be addressed as such. And why would this person respond to my comments to Chuckie, if he were not Chuckie?

Do you believe I have posted my name linked to the commie website? Please.

He’s been obsessive in his hatred for me for quite some time. Check the previous threads where he invokes my name before I even comment.

You alone are decent enough to bring up a point of issue to discuss. Thank you again.

"People who believe that the aristocracy rightfully dominates society because of its intrinsic superiority are conservatives...".

This is the essential core of aristocracy as it has existed throughout history. People who supported rule by divine right of kings, monarchies, and other undemocratic systems were also conservatives. I can’t see how that cannot be true. This used to be why they called themselves conservatives, They wanted to keep their systems.

Now conservatism has been subverted into subordinating democracy to divine right of wealth.

This doesn’t say all conservatives believe this. But the ones who do are conservatives by a traditional definition of the word. And it is not the only definition of conservative. Proponents of the far Right also claim the cloak of “conservative”. And they are the loudest voices to do so. These are the ones addressed in this context. As the Right muddies definitions, I like to clarify as much as possible. There’s a reason destruction of language is a tactic of the far Right.

And let’s be clear. “Conservative” in this case is not Grandmother’s religion or annoyance with newfangled ideas and fads. It is not traditionalism, unless you take it back to monarchy. It is the agenda of the political Right and power of wealth.

And how can you deny that southern conservatives were the ones fighting to preserve slavery? Note the other examples of conservatives being opposed to human progress and universal rights. Today’s conservative is not pro-slavery. That is called progress. Many, but not all, of today’s conservatives are anti-minimum wage and loyal to the narrow agenda of the economic elites. More progress is needed.

Note the “conservative” agenda of the GOP. Practically all that they do is for the benefit of the economic elites. And they get a lot of help from the corporatist democrats. This is known as neo-liberalism to the rest of world. It is a movement of radical anit-democratic change, from a government of, by, and for the people to government of, by, and for the elites.

And those elites are raking it in, as they pay lower taxes than the decades when our nation prospered. The majority sees austerity on the horizon. Someone is getting their way here, and they have “conservatives” to thank.

That is not what my conservative Grandmother wanted. I don’t think it’s what you want. I would expect you to understand that the very words “liberal” and “conservative” have been twisted by powerful interests with a narrow agenda. They have legions of authoritarian followers catapulting their propaganda.

At 9:38 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

That's your opinion and while you are entitled to it, I disagree with.

At 10:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Massachusetts representative Stephen Lynch (D) isn’t just worried about the negative impact Obamacare will have on his party’s performance this fall — he also thinks its worst effects on our health-care system are still to come. Lynch, who voted against the Affordable Care Act in 2010, warned that the situation is “going to hit the fan” when the law’s delayed provisions go into effect down the road.

“There are parts of Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act, that were postponed because they are unpalatable,” he told the Boston Herald. The “Cadillac tax” that goes into effect in a few years and taxes employer health plans over a certain value, he said, will be “the first time in this country’s history that we have actually taxed health care.”

Repeal is now impossible, he says, because of the number of Americans who’ve signed up for the law’s exchanges. Democrats will take big political hits on the law this fall anyway, Lynch said.

“We will lose seats in the House,” he said. “I am fairly certain of that based on the poll numbers that are coming out from the more experienced pollsters down there, and I think we may lose the Senate.”

SAN FRANCISCO (KPIX 5) — Two months after KPIX 5 ConsumerWatch first reported about some doctors listed on the Covered California exchange were actually not accepting the plans, insurer Anthem Blue Cross admitted that nearly 1,000 doctors were erroneously listed.

According to a statement by the California Medical Association, the insurer recently notified 965 physicians that they were wrongly placed on the exchange’s list. The notice, which was posted on April 9th, stated that the doctors were “inadvertently” listed for “a certain period of time” during the open enrollment period.

“The premise of Covered California is that you’re able to compare plans and see which one is best for you. But if they are presenting that they have all these doctors in network but they don’t, then it doesn’t work,”

CNSNews.com) - In the budget proposal he presented to Congress last month, President Barack Obama called for what would be the highest level of sustained taxation ever imposed on the American people, according to the analysis published last week by the Congressional Budget Office.

Under Obama’s proposal, taxes would rise from 17.6 percent of Gross Domestic Product in 2014 to 19.2 percent in 2024. During the ten years from 2015 to 2024, federal taxation would average 18.7 percent GDP.

America has never been subjected to a ten-year stretch of taxation at that level.

At 11:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

History shows us that authoritarian systems, whether fascist, communist, or Keynesian, will inevitably fail.

At 12:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As of the close of business on April 15, according to the Daily Treasury Statement, the Treasury had taken in $1,428,710,000,000 in total taxes so far this fiscal year.

In constant 2014 dollars, that was $79,165,040,000 more than the $1,349,544,960,000 the Treasury had collected in taxes by April 15 fiscal 2013, and was a record for federal tax collection as of April 15.

Prior to this year, the highest federal tax intake by Tax Day, April 15, occurred in fiscal 2008, when the government collected $1,391,321,650,000 in 2014 dollars, or $37,388,350,000 less than what it had collected by April 15 of this year.

In years when April 15 fell on the weekend, CNSNews.com compared the total taxes collected as of April 15 this year with the total tax collected by April 16 or 17 in the year in question.

Despite the record rate of revenue collection so far in this fiscal year, the Treasury reported in its monthly statement for March that through that month the government had already amassed a deficit of $413 billion for fiscal 2014.

At 1:09 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anonymous, just because doctors are being vindictive does not mean it's the fault of the ACA.

And keep posting misleading statistics. You could get a job on Fox news.

At 8:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just because the Dems lose seats in the House and Senate doesn't mean it's the fault of the ACA.

At 9:06 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Anon, did it ever occur to you that Obama is working for your side to deliver a Republican congress and president in 2016.

At 10:22 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

History shows us that authoritarian systems, whether fascist, communist, or Keynesian, will inevitably fail.

You don't know history.

Tell that to the Chinese. You forgot the great GOP led failures of deregulated capitalism in 1929 and 2008.

"Keynesian" is not an authoritarian system. It didn't steal the White House in 2000 and take us to war based on lies. THAT was authoritarianism. And Keynesian policies didn't cause the crashes of 1929 and 2008. Those were the results of "free market" deregulation that conservatives love to do when in power.

Keynesian policies were used to lift us out of those disasters caused by deregulated capitalism.

And thanks to both major parties allowing "too big to fail" immunity to Big Money, more catastrophic failures of unregulated capitalism await us.

THAT is what history shows us.

At 3:00 PM, Anonymous Phillip Morris said...

Who enforces the principals of Keynesian economics?

Who directs the actions of an economy when Keynesian policy's are used?

Where does the capital that Keynesian
economics and policy come from?

The answers are

the government,
the government,
the private sector

How does Keynesian economics secure the capital needed to operate?

By taxing the wealth of the private sector.

Authoritarianism is a form of government. It is characterized by absolute or blind obedience to authority (PAY YOUR TAXES OR ELSE/ FREE MARKET IS BAD), as against individual freedom (ACA IS A MANDATE/NO ONE BUT THE STATE CAN REALLY HELP YOU) and related to the expectation of unquestioning obedience.(YOU ARE A RACIST IF YOU QUESTION/ AD Hominen)

Keynesian economics requires an authoritarianism form of government in order to operate. As does Fascism, communism and socialism. The list DD provided does nothing to dispute this argument but it does allow DD to spew his hatred for things he believes are unjust. Which I hope means he doesn't kick his dog when he gets off work today.

DD has a right to his beliefs, even if they are wrong.

At 3:47 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

DD has a right to his beliefs, even if they are wrong.

Gee, thanks, Chuckie. Too bad you can't comprehend my beliefs. You can't even refute what you imagine are my beliefs with any facts.

Obviously, as an individual with an authoritarian personality, your beliefs regarding my views are of your creation. You will cling to your beliefs and disregard facts that contradict your beliefs. They have little in common with my actual views, but authoritarians don't care. This is why they are so narrow minded and self-righteous.

Your sad little pile of nonsense and gibberish reflect your unwillingness and inability to engage in rational good faith dialogue.

And these are the facts, not my "beliefs".

Watch this fact get ignored...again.

Keynesian policies didn't cause the crashes of 1929 and 2008. Those were the results of "free market" deregulation that conservatives love to do when in power.

Run, Chuckie, run.

At 4:46 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

I love to watch conservatives SQUIRMING in desparation, KNOWING that they have LOST the battle with the ACA (It's working and people like it)and KNOWING that they ONLY way they win national elections is to CHEAT (Gerrymandering, disenfranchising voters). The vast majority of Americans just do not think like the teabaggers. All conservatives do is WHINE AND CRY while offering NO solutions or alternatives other than "Kill the ACA! IMpeach Obama! and yet, in the last 6 years under Obama the economy has improved in spite of GOP obstructionism, Bin Laden and Gadaffi are dead, the US auto industry was saved (along with nearly a million jobs) Green energy is moving forward as it should, and our standing in the world has improved 1,000 fold. THose are just the obvious things. he'd have more people working to rebuild our failing infrastructure if the GOP would get out of the way. Suck it conservatives, but DO keep whining, it's good entertainment.

At 9:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Liberals have to be among the stupidest of Americans. They talk of this liberal utopia, and they do exist in America we call them Detroit, DC, Chicago ,Newark Trenton, and so on . In these cities quality of life is very high, the people wait on line for their liberal government handouts, their food stamps, healthcare (for their babies), and most important their welfare checks. With these checks they can obtain their drugs ,alcohol, and Jordan's. This healthcare system is financially crippling our country. There was nothing wrong with the old healthcare system there was a problem with the way the government collected information from Americans. The Obama administration stole this idea right out of the famous leftist, commie book "rules for radicals" and the sheep just followed the wolf. Now as you see the Dow hits new hi's every day but the middle class is still broke, oh blame Bush, since liberals can't be held responsible for their own actions, Obama the worst president ever to grace this once fine nation, can't be held to his failed six years. Oh and all the real conservative cities don't fair as nice as the aforementioned ones, long poverty lines in Anaheim, Colorado Springs, Lubbock Texas, so you tell me where you would rather be in those liberal Utopias, or those conservative slums, me I'll go slumming.....

All amped up! Any GOPer in 16 I want the USA back not the USSA...


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