Wednesday, June 24, 2015

South Carolina's "DUH" Moment

Naughty flag!

Reverend Clemente Pinckney
This one is such a no-bainer that I'm almost embarrassed to bring it up - but I will because, gosh darn it, I just can't help myself! There are literally so many avenues I could proceed down with regard to this tragedy that I hardly now where to begin!
I'm not going to mention the name of the homicidal moron who carried out the inexplicable slaughter of nine, peaceful and unarmed human beings inside a historic African American church in the city of Charleston, South Carolina a week ago today. Like the fool who murdered John Lennon thirty-five years ago, this utterly worthless little bastard wanted to be known for something - anything - and he's gotten his wish. His stated intention was to start a "race war"; instead he has South Carolinians (of all people) seriously thinking about banning the confederate flag (his flag) from state property. This is a jolly good thing indeed.

The assaults upon the intelligence commenced immediately when the screw-heads over at Fox and Friends proclaimed that this latest atrocity in the rolling American tragedy had nothing to do with racial hatred, that it was, instead, yet another assault against "Christianity". Fox's very own in-house lamebrain, Steve Doocy, remarked that it seemed "extraordinary" to him that people were referring to this as a "hate crime". Genius. The very first eye-witness reports from the crime scene stated unequivocally that this asshole told them all why he was shooting them ("You rape our women. You're taking over the country"). If you're still watching Fox Noise for anything other then the unintentional giggles it dishes out with knee-slapping regularity, there's little hope for you.

The twists and turns of the timeline of history are, at times, a breathtaking thing to ponder. Think of the irony: The confederate flag was officially reinstituted by Democrats in South Carolina in 1962 as a reaction to the Civil Rights movement. This was during that bygone day when the South was crawling with racist Dixiecrats who couldn't bring themselves to join the party of "that bearded bastard that freed our slaves". Their precious flag will more-than-likely be removed forever from the statehouse at the instigation of the Republican governor. Nikki Haley announced in the wake of the slaughter that, while secessionist flag may represent a crucial period in the history of that state, it belongs folded away in a museum - not flying over the statehouse. At that moment she rose a thousand-fold in my estimation. As you've probably figured out by now, I'm not known for tipping my hat to many members of that party, but I need to give credit where it's due. God bless her for remembering that hers was at one time the party of Abraham Lincoln.    

Some reactionary twit once declared, "The South shall rise again". Honestly, folks, the South needs to wake the hell up. On my Facebook page the other day, a southern belle reacted to a link I had posted by noting that "you" (meaning me) won the Civil War because "we" (presumably meaning her) didn't have access to the thousands of Irish immigrants willing to fight for the Northern cause in order to gain their citizenship. Incredibly, she then went on to inform me that she was a descendant of one of those immigrants. I thought this ironic because my Irish heirs didn't arrive in the states until after the war, and many of my maternal ancestors fought on the on the side of dear ol' Dixie. This is a fact of my heritage that I don't go around bragging about for obvious reasons. It boggles the mind that southern people would look at their familial connections to that conflict with even a molecule of pride - I sure-as-hell-don't.

He won.
People who are still fighting that war need to take a deep breath and come to terms with the stark reality that the war between the states (or "The war of northern aggression" as my Facebook friend referred it) ended in 1865. That was one-hundred and fifty years ago, kids. The last veteran of that conflict died fifty-six years ago. Get a grip.


Why is it that the Germans are so far ahead of us in this respect? They figured out a long time ago that the flag of he Third Reich was the most despicable banner that any army ever marched under in the history of the human race (the  Confederate flag being a close second). The only places in Germany where the swastika flies these das are on the sets of historical movies. For the record, the Hitler gang are always portrayed as the bad guys. You've gotta hand it to those Gerrys. You really do!

He lost.
The sight of the "stars and bars" does not fill our brothers and sisters of color with any degree of "southern pride". It hurts their feelings and makes them feel like strangers in their own land. It's time for that goddamned flag to be permanently consigned to the hall of infamy where it bloody-well belongs. Can I get a witness?

No one with any sense is proposing a law that would ban the rebel flag outright. They tried that in California and I felt then (and feel still) that it was a terrible idea. Citizens who wish fly the rebel flag will still be able to do so - on private property. This is a good thing, too. I believe to my core that everyone has the Constitutional right to behave like a racist shithead. This wouldn't be America otherwise.

Along with the topic of race in America, the massacre of nine devout and gentle churchgoers a week ago today in Charleston, South Carolina has also reopened that nasty-tasting can of worms known as "gun violence". I write about this topic quite often because one who comments on the American train wreck is hard-pressed to avoid the subject. In fact, I've written about it so many times by this point that I'm getting bored with it. Allow me, instead, to repeat a paragraph I have posted many times before and that I will, no doubt, post again many times in the future. Yeah, I know, I'm sounding like a broken record but it needs a reprise:

The NRA loves to jabber on - like diseased little myna birds - about "freedom". We need to come face-to-face with some unpleasant realities: A people who live in dread, mortal terror wondering where and when the next mass killing of innocents inevitably takes place may indeed be many things - no argument there - "free" they are not. Let's stop kidding ourselves here and now, okay?

Sorry 'bout that. Again, I just couldn't help myself. As long as we continue to insist on having the most mind-boggling, insane gun laws in the Western Hemisphere, we might as well come to terms with living in a nation in ruins. This is the new American reality - rivers of tears, oceans of blood. This is the way it's gonna be from here on in. Get fucking used to it.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY


Bushwhacked: Life in George W. Bush's America
by Molly Ivins (with Lou Dubose)

I first read this classic political tome when it was released a decade ago. I'm rereading it now. It's a reminder why George W. Bush will be remembered as the most corrupt, incompetent chief executive in the history of this doomed republic, It's quite sad - and very funny. I miss Molly Ivins.

UPDATE, 4:41 PM:

Other states might follow the example of South Carolina. The governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe,  has ordered that the Rebel flag to be removed from all license plates. Even Alabama and Mississippi are considering it's removal. There's a glimmer of hope this afternoon in Dixie!


At 7:53 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Tom you can correct and delete this post brainer and know

At 9:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Interesting post.

Why do you think the people of Charleston haven't broken into Ferguson like actions?

At 9:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


If you listened to those who were targeted they spoke of restriant and non-violence. Something they knew was evident when attacked by this individual. A person who has a mind of a middle-school child.
Pacifity and peaceful coexistence are the traits these great people of South Carolina have, and will, continue to demonstrate. Not at all to be misconstrued as submission - or oppression.
These people have shown intelligence far greater than the 'flag wavers' and gun nuts that are so pervasive in the South.
And the illinfoerme still say, "the South will rise again!"

At 9:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was supposed to be "ill-informed".

Incidentally, I was standing in an usually long line in a very rural north Georgia sporting goods store. Taking a spot at the end of the long line, I asked the guy ahead of me, "why is this line here?" Thinking there was some problem . .
Instead this guy (with his deep Alabama southern drawl explained, "they were no afraid the prent administration was going to take all their guns away. So they were stocking up!"
That's the mindset rational and intelligent southerners are now dealing with . . .

At 10:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another error (must be a drag in the system):

"they were no afraid the prent administration . . ." is supposed to be "they were afraid the present administration . . . "

At 10:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, but why wasn't that same restraint used in Ferguson, Baltimore and NYC? Was it because "flag wavers' and gun nuts" from the South moved north?

At 10:51 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Ferguson and Baltimore are Southern cities. Just thought I'd run that by you.

At 11:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This particualr issue is far, far more complex that something as simple as gun control and race. Deeply religious Southerners were raised knowing who they were and what 'positions' (key in on that word) they had in society. Fear of all those who were from 'the other side of the tracks' ingrained phobias in young kids who were then able to see and hear!
This is unfathomable by anyone who may have been raised in the North. I think I know . . I have been married to a Yankee for 53 years - and she still cannot see the reasons this archaic societal norm exists. (Guess you have to be a Southern Baptist to understand)

This issue is woven into the fabric of who and what a Southerner is. A tremendously complex; albeit unsophistated individual.

I guess again . . "You gotta be one - to know one!"

At 1:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Ferguson and Baltimore are Southern cities. Just thought I'd run that by you."

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report)—Many Americans are tired of explaining things to idiots, particularly when the things in question are so painfully obvious, a new poll indicates.

According to the poll, conducted by the University of Minnesota’s Opinion Research Institute, while millions have been vexed for some time by their failure to explain incredibly basic information to dolts, that frustration has now reached a breaking point.

Of the many obvious things that people are sick and tired of trying to get through the skulls of stupid people, the fact that climate change will cause catastrophic habitat destruction and devastating extinctions tops the list, with a majority saying that they will no longer bother trying to explain this to cretins.

Coming in a close second, statistical proof that gun control has reduced gun deaths in countries around the world is something that a significant number of those polled have given up attempting to break down for morons.

Finally, a majority said that trying to make idiots understand why a flag that symbolizes bigotry and hatred has no business flying over a state capitol only makes the person attempting to explain this want to put his or her fist through a wall.

In a result that suggests a dismal future for the practice of explaining things to idiots, an overwhelming number of those polled said that they were considering abandoning such attempts altogether, with a broad majority agreeing with the statement, “This country is exhausting.”

At 6:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ferguson is north of the Mason Dixon line by a long shot.

At 11:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

At 11:08 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Looks like SCOTUS voted for Americans and kept Obamacare. With this and the removal of treasonous confederate flags, it's a bad year for conservatives.

Too bad, so sad.

At 1:21 PM, Blogger The New York Crank said...

I keep seeing references to gun control in these comments. It's time to go beyond that and demand repeal of the Second Amendment. There's no reason in the world why this nation should have about as many firearms as we have people — although if the present trend to gun violence and "stocking up" on weapons continues, we'll have fewer people and even more guns.

The Second Amendment made sense in the Eighteen Century, and in parts of the U.S. in the 19th Century. Now it's just nonsense. It's time for it to go.

Yours very crankily,
The New York Crank

At 3:37 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

I don't think the 2nd should be repealed, but MAYBE it could be rewritten so that conservatives would no longer be able to pervert it as they have.

But let me say again...


I love butthurt conservatives. It's a good day.

At 7:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart1220, does the preservation of Obamacare mean that single pregnant women in Alaska are covered? Asking for a friend:

Headline: Bristol Palin Reveals She’s Pregnant With Second Child: “I Do Not Want Any Lectures”

At 7:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ferguson is north of the Mason Dixon line by a long shot.

6:27 PM

At 10:07 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Well, I'm sure Ms Palin can get prenatal care, but Obamacare can't fix stupid. ;)

At 12:14 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

The Second Amendment is not the problem. The problem is we have created a society of mentally ill, dysfunctional people who are poorly educated and lack understanding of basic concepts of civility. Maybe if more resources were invested in mental health and education instead of endless wars, these occurrences of gun violence would decrease dramatically... Not all the perpetrators of gun violence have the same motivation but they do share mental illness, a poor education and failure to understand the concepts of civility. Let's explore how they got that way and what can be done to change it for future generations.

At 1:52 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

These idiots are constantly fed by their hate cult. Don't forget the 24/7 lies and hate from the Right's propaganda machinery.

The anti-democratic powers of institutionalized wealth, corporatist puppet masters, and the military industrial complex need to feed their flock a swill of propaganda in order to fleece us all.

This will never change, and they will always have their dupes, shills, and stooges.

At 2:35 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Dave, the resources not used for war go to run the propaganda machine. I still don't understand why their society based on War, Hate and Poverty is more desirable than our society based on Peace, Love and Prosperity. Go figure !!

At 4:59 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Well I have to give credit to the SCOTUS. Two major decisions and they got them both right! Whoda thunk it from the gang that gave us Citizen's United.

Between that and treasonous rebel flags coming down, conservative heads are exploding.

And it's fun to watch.

Add to that the fact that Trump and Jindal have joined the GOP clown car, and it looks like a fun few months ahead.

At 9:29 AM, Anonymous Southern Redneck said...

To hell with the "finger in the wind" politicians concerning the Confederate flag.

This is the flag my ancestors fought under. It's not a question of "hate", it's a simple fact of history.

The South only had a small percentage of slaves. The North had slaves. You can make the North sound like they were all arms wide open with everybody, and caring and loving, Not hardly. Black people also had slaves. The largest slave owner in South Carolina before the civil war started was a black man, who also fought for the Confederacy.

If you want to talk about history and racism, why don't you look at the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, and her agenda. She was all for the eradication of the African American race. Yet, the liberals and progressives hand over millions in contributions to their cause.

Progressive Socialists are a cancer in our society. We could burn and smash every symbol of the Confederacy in the world, and they would simply move-on to a never ending list of things that they find offensive.

Slavery was wrong and State sanctioned racism was wrong. And no one but fringe lunatics believe otherwise.

Banning historical symbols is Orwellian. Imagine the howls of "CENSORSHIP" from the Progressive Socialists if one day it was deemed "wise and desirable" to ban the Rainbow Flag because Christians, Jews, and Muslims found it offensive.

Its great news that Charleston told the race baiters Al Sharpton and New Black Panther leader Malik Zulu Shabazz to take a hike. They come in cities to stir the pot and try to burn cities down. How would these good for nothing bums like it if their neighborhood was burned down?

And I am tired of the lunatic progressive talk of reparations. How many trillions of reparations have been spent on the endless "War On Poverty" which has built the vast Democrat run Liberal Plantation started by the first plantation master LBJ?

At 9:32 AM, Anonymous Jeb Bush said...

As president of the United States, I would make fixing our broken health-care system one of my top priorities. I will work with Congress to repeal and replace this flawed law with conservative reforms that empower consumers with more choices and control over their health care decisions.

At 12:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Southern Redneck's comment about the rebel flag being an historical symbol of factual history rather than a symbol of hate and bigotry is absolutely incorrect. If he bothered to read the history of the flag, he would learn that it was resurrected in the 1950s and 1960s as a finger in the face of the Civil Rights movement. That can be interpreted as nothing other than racial hatred.
The Civil War was about slavery. More to the point, it was a war to stop the spread of that vile institution to the Western territories. With the signing of the Kansas & Nebraska Act of 1854 by Franklin Pierce, the South all but guaranteed the war. And, by the way, Redneck, the South held the vast majority of slaves in the US. It was fully two-thirds of its economy. Keep it, cherish it if you must, but don't mind if the rest of us choose to shove it where it belongs.

At 1:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How does a former military intelligence analyst make sense of Dylann Roof, the white right, and domestic terrorism?

At 1:39 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Hey Southern redneck, your ancestors FOUGHT AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (which is called TREASON) to preserve the right to OWN PEOPLE and you LOST. If that's the "history" you want to preserve, then too bad.

And Jeb Bush as soon as you have an actual PLAN in place to replace OBAMACARE we will listen. Until then the last thing America needs is another Bush in the White House to promote war on the poor an middle class.

At 3:47 PM, Anonymous Southern Redneck said...

Slavery was wrong and State sanctioned racism was wrong. And no one but fringe lunatics believe otherwise. But my ancestors fought for slavery and state-sanctioned racism, and so I honor them.

Here is some of the Texas Ordinance of Secession from 1861:

She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery–the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits–a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

At 11:13 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Why would anyone want to honor an ancestor that supported slavery?

At 7:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're right, Mozart1220. It would be like honoring an ancestor who worked at the nazi concentration camps.
And doing it by flying the swastika.

At 7:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you really want to leave in the hands of the worst Congress ever, rewriting of the Constitution?

At 12:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Southern Redneck and others-

See if you can find at an Interlibrary loan system "The Letters to Buchanan". These letters chronicle the documented historical facts regarding Texas' annexation into the Union.

There is another book, "The Mexican Spy Company" which also reveals many of the absolute facts about the emerging new state.

At the time the Haiti and the islands were the western 'capitol' of the slave trades into the new world. Texas, by becoming a state, would then assume that title.

But the Union thought otherwise.

Incidentally, before Mexico was willing to give control to the immigrants from the Union they had to agree to three things: 1. The Spanish emmissaries would collect taxes on land they issued, 2> People will be Catholic, and 3> There will be no slaves; or slave trading.

Then look what happened . . . they agreed - but soon disagreed.

Go find the Letters and the book of historial facts!

At 4:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's a new documentary about Molly: RAISE HELL - The Life & Times of Molly Ivins. Of course, there isn't enough money, so they've gone on kickstarter.

If Tom Degan wasn't the biggest jackass on the planet earth, I'd include a link.

At 5:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6 black churches have been burned since Charleston.

Disgusting. If this were a star wars movie, we'd call it "The RightWing Strikes Back"

At 12:25 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Between the bigots who hate Blacks, and those that hate Gays, it could be called "Dumb and Dumber".

At 7:57 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Now the Boy Troll's buddies are out burning Black churches.

At 8:07 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Every time a Black church burns a bigot gets his horns.

At 10:09 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

And America get's another Black mark in the eyes of the civilized world.

At 9:15 AM, Anonymous Jake said...

America? There once was such a place. Liberals poisoned it.
Maybe some day we will be rid of the liberal traitors and that beautiful place can rise once again.

At 9:21 AM, Anonymous Hopey McChange said...

Thanks Tom Degan, you are one of the greats amongst the Torch Bearers for Liberty. Alarm bells are ringing to lovers of freedom to act to restore STRICTLY LIMITED government to America, still the best hope for humankind. For a long time I have appreciated your flair with words that spark and help me articulate my own thoughts about freedom. You lift the fogging rhetoric cast by those lusting for power and obsessed with expanding the role of the state.

At 11:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BoyTrollOrphanSoreLoser is back!

Did you enjoy your vacation?

At 11:28 AM, Anonymous Hopey McChange said...

The problem with the expansion of the role of the state is we end up with stupid laws that tell the states they can't fly the dixie swastika. Which would seem to be a good idea if you were a good american, but who cares about being a good american? I'd rather fly hate symbols. Jake makes a good point. Eliminate everyone you disagree with. That's what Hitler wanted to do. Call whoever he disagreed with a "poison" and a "cancer" and then suddenly concentration camps make perfect sense.

I'm not offended by the confederate flag. My grandfather wasn't lynched by people who waved it. So therefore, it should fly over every southern state capitol.

Actually, the only confederate flag that REALLY matters is the white flag of surrender. Maybe we should put that on the backs of our pickup trucks... The Losers' flag.

I'll have to think about it.

At 2:10 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Jake (Boy Troll) calls Liberals "traitors" because we oppose the flag that represents people who took arms against the United States. Now if you can explain THAT logic to me....

At 5:17 PM, Anonymous L. C. said...

This comment summarizes Free Speech as well as the Founding Fathers, "I believe to my core that everyone has the Constitutional right to behave like a racist shithead. This wouldn't be America otherwise."

I so enjoy your writing!


At 5:35 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Tom, I appreciate your take on the confederate flag and indeed find it refreshing that you clarify that those that wish to fly it on their own private property have the right to do so. I concur wholeheartedly that this symbol of division absolutely had to come down over the South Carolina state house, and all public property though.

That said, I do wish you had as clear of a constitutional stance on the second amendment as you seem to have regarding the first.

Cheers to you anyway!

At 10:09 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

T. Paine, The 2nd amendment is no more holy than the 1st and the 4th. What is YOUR stance on red states completely flushing those? The 2nd allows for REGULATION.

At 10:29 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Too bad Lincoln stopped the South from separating from the rest of the US. By now they would be just like North Korea but with a huge slave population. We would have a demilitarized zone separating us from them to keep the crazy bastards contained in their Christian hellhole.

Would't that be nice!

At 4:17 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

most of Texas would be part of Mexico, that much is certain.

At 8:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Damn!! This makes 7 Black Churches since the Charleston shooting!

Firefighters fighting blaze at Mount Zion AME Church in Williamsburg, 20 years after it was burned down by KKK

At 10:24 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

"Damn!! This makes 7 Black Churches since the Charleston shooting!

Firefighters fighting blaze at Mount Zion AME Church in Williamsburg, 20 years after it was burned down by KKK"

Is the above from the man who reads 6 papers every day?

From today's Charlotte Observer: A fire that destroyed a black church that 20 years ago was a target of the Ku Klux Klan was not the work of an arsonist, a federal law enforcement official said Wednesday.

The South is in a drought and the temps have been around 100 for a couple of weeks. It would be reasonable to think that overall fires are up in the area, due to natural causes.

This is so true - the Left is shameless in its ability to lie, agitate and blame others. They are psychotic.

At 11:08 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

On many matters--especially those regarding racial, gender, and class justice--Fox News and the Right-wing noise machine have worked directly opposite of that responsibility and principle. Their coverage of the Charleston Massacre, and subsequent events such as the burning down of multiple African-American churches in the last week, are a further example of how they have abandoned--if they every had it all--any sense of responsibility to truth-telling and the Common Good.

Perhaps Fox News and its auxiliaries can surprise and amaze--in the best sense--with how they discuss the spate of fires at historic African-American churches in these recent days? I doubt that is possible, as to do so would be contrary to their raison d'etre as the mainstream corporate news media's preeminent mouthpiece for the politics of white racial resentment and white victimology in the post civil rights era United States.

At 11:19 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

NY Times July 1
GREELEYVILLE, S.C. — Another predominantly African-American church has burned in the South, the latest in a string of fires that has put congregations on edge.

Investigators on Wednesday morning were in Greeleyville, S.C., north of Charleston, where an African-American church caught fire overnight 20 years after the Ku Klux Klan burned it down.

It took over two hours to extinguish the fire that burned through the roof and gutted the predominantly black Mount Zion A.M.E. Church. Lightning storms were reported in the area overnight, and Mark Keel, the chief of the South Carolina Enforcement Division, said that it was too early to determine the cause of the fire.

On Tuesday, before the latest fire, the N.A.A.C.P. suggested that history might be repeating itself, citing a history of church burnings across the United States. On Twitter, the organization said that it was warning black churches to take “necessary precautions” against fires.

At 11:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since "the Left is shameless in its ability to lie, agitate and blame others" let's take a look...

Here's the original article from the Charlotte Observer:

Local and regional authorities say they haven't ruled out any potential causes in a fire that destroyed a black church in South Carolina, but a federal official tells The Associated Press that preliminary indications show the blaze was not the work of an arsonist.

At a news conference Wednesday, Craig Chillcott of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives office that oversees North and South Carolina said officials "haven't ruled anything out or in at this point" in the Tuesday fire at the Mount Zion African Methodist Episcopal Church in Greeleyville.

But a federal official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the case publicly says preliminary indications are that the fire wasn't intentionally set and wasn't arson.

Steve Gardner of the Williamsburg County Sheriff's Office says he knows the community wants answers but asks for residents to bear with authorities as they work.

All three officials say the fire is still under investigation.

Let's hear about the war against christianity, BoyTroll... you can't get any more warlike than burning a fucking church to the ground. Must be a bunch of psychotic liberals, right?

At 11:38 AM, Anonymous Old Fashioned American said...

The central planners’ answer to imperfect central planning is always more power for the central planners. Their answer is never more freedom. We ought not go down this road with the Washington-always-knows-best authors of Obamacare.

At 11:44 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

So ALL seven churches just burst into flame on their own? And all BLACK churches besides, and right after the confederate flags are coming down.

Now that's some coincidence.

At 1:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Old Fashioned Idiot said...
The central planners’ answer to imperfect central planning is always more power for the central planners. Their answer is never more freedom. We ought not go down this road with the Washington-always-knows-best authors of Obamacare.

I know a place you can go where, for centuries, nay, millennia, big government has not been able to reach. Why? Because the populace is heavily armed, and willing to defend their traditional way of life.

It’s called Afghanistan.

At 9:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:09 PM

And the point you are trying to make is?

At 8:16 AM, Anonymous Old Fashioned American said...

"I know a place you can go where, for centuries, nay, millennia, big government has not been able to reach. Why? Because the populace is heavily armed, and willing to defend their traditional way of life.

It’s called Afghanistan."

Anonymous @9:14PM,

At no point in America's history, including most of its history without big government, can America in any way be compared to Afghanistan. You must be the guy that reads 6 papers a day but no matter how many you read you are not the sharpest pencil in the box.

At 8:23 AM, Anonymous Old Fashioned American said...

My bad Anonymous @9:14PM,

I left my reading glasses at the prison where I work.

Anonymous @1:09PM is not the sharpest pencil in the box.

At 9:13 AM, Anonymous Brit Hume said...

Nearly 20 years ago, the late columnist William Safire of The New York Times described Hillary Clinton as a "congenital liar." The list of her whoppers was long then and it has been growing ever since. She claimed that as a novice investor in Arkansas she made a 10,000% killing trading cattle futures by reading The Wall Street Journal. Something one observer said was akin to "driving to Hawaii."

She said she came under sniper fire in Bosnia in 1996. She didn't.

She said her daughter was jogging around the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. She wasn't.

She even once claimed that she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary after he became the first man to climb Mount Everest. But that didn't happen until five years after she was born.

More recently she claimed she'd turned over all her job-related e-mails from her days as Secretary of State. But more work-related e-mails have since turned turned up that the State Department didn't have. And she claimed the notorious Sidney Blumenthal was just an old friend with whom she kept in touch and who sent her unsolicited e-mails. Turns out as we've heard she was reaching out to him in the dark of night during the first year of the Obama administration and her e-mails make clear she welcomed and encouraged his advice. With such a record of mendacity, and there are numerous other examples, one thing is clear, it's a good thing for Hillary Clinton that she's not a Republican.

But none of the above would stop Tom Degan from running after Hillary's Scooby Doo van should it travel Goshen's Main street.

At 9:54 AM, Anonymous Old Fashioned American said...

William Safire was a speechwriter for Spiro Agnew and Richard Nixon. I guess he's an expert on lying.

Agnew was accused of accepting more than $100,000 in bribes during his tenure as governor of Maryland. Agnew was fined $10,000 and received three years probation. The $10,000 fine covered only the taxes and interest due on what was "unreported income" from 1967. As a result of his no contest plea, the state of Maryland later disbarred Agnew, calling him "morally obtuse". A good, old-fashioned American. Safire wrote some great speeches for him.

Safire was one of several voices who called for war with Iraq, and predicted a "quick war" and wrote: "Iraqis, cheering their liberators, will lead the Arab world toward democracy." He consistently brought up the point in his Times columns that an Iraqi intelligence agent met with Mohamed Atta, one of the 9/11 attackers, in Prague, which he called an "undisputed fact", a theory which was disputed by the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Safire insisted that the theory was true and used it to make a case for war against Iraq.

Also, I was kidding about leaving my glasses at work. I don't work, I collect government checks. Your tax dollars pay for my internet connection. Call me a hypocrite all you want, libtards! I prefer to think of myself as morally obtuse.

At 10:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Uncle Bernie has got George Soros worried for Ms. Clinton

A trio of pro-Hillary Clinton groups raised more than $20 million in the first half of the year, including at least $1 million from billionaire financier George Soros, POLITICO has learned.

American Bridge 21st Century, an opposition research super PAC founded by Clinton enforcer David Brock, will disclose raising $7.7 million — including $1 million from Soros — to the Federal Election Commission before a July 15 deadline, an official with the group said Wednesday.

At 11:31 AM, Anonymous Old Fashioned American said...

William Safire was a long-time syndicated political columnist for the New York Times. I guess he's an expert on lying.

But William Safire is dead, so what difference at this point does it make?

I sure wish we could have a video posted on youtube of Tom Degan running after the Scooby Doo van when it travels to Goshen.

Ellis D, are you Tommy?

At 11:50 AM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

Making points seems to be optional lately...

At 1:10 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

lol Harley

what's your point?

At 1:36 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Greece was occupied for 500+ years by islamists then socialism took hold. Doesn't that explain much of the moral and economic delusions of the greeks? Sort of reminds you of what is going on here at home doesn't it?

At 1:48 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

I have a serious problem with the way GDP is measured. GDP is supposed to be the amount of goods and services produced within the borders of a country, but we measure it by counting spending. And we even count government spending as production even though the government produces nothing, under the assumption that the money all gets spent on something that is produced.

So the federal government creates some bits on a computer and calls them "dollars", and electronically transfers them to John Doe Welfare Recipient. John Doe uses the "money" to buy lottery tickets. Then it goes to the state government, which sends it to the state university, which pays it to Hillary Clinton to make a speech.

And every step of the way, it is counted as "production" even though the only things produced were a little bit of paper, a lot of hot air, and a large increase in the general population's collective stupidity.

At 2:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Tell us how you would measure the GDP.

At 3:17 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

James Hansen would have ALL jobs outsourced to insure the highest profits for the corporations, who then should pay NO taxes, and the American PEOPLE who have no jobs would live in a third world country where their only income would be from serving in the military.

At 3:33 PM, Anonymous Old Fashioned American said...

...and the American PEOPLE who have no jobs would live in a third world country where their only income would be from serving in the military.

There'd be no shortage of opportunities to fight and die, because the GOP never met a war it didn't like. Funny how so many of the biggest war mongers in the GOP never saw a day of combat. At least McCain served, even though he recklessly disobeyed orders and crashed more than one plane. Later, he recklessly disregarded common sense, chose Sarah Palin, and crashed his campaign.

Donald Trump should have been drafted during the Vietnam War, but thanks to FIVE deferments from 1964 through 1969, he avoided service.

Although Sen. Lindsey Graham claimed to have been a war vet, he was a lawyer in the National Guard who served only in South Carolina.

Jack Kemp. "Knee problem," although he continued to play in NFL for 8 years.

U.S. Senator Saxby Chambliss (GA). "Bad knee" He unseated tripelegic Democratic war hero Max Cleland by questioning his patriotism!

At 6:55 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Poor SL he steals my name three times in a row just to get some attention from me. Do you feel better now SL?

At 7:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

SoreLoserBoyTrollSharptoon is lashing out. He's terrified of Bernie Sanders (soshulust!) and Hillary (devil woman, probably murdered Vince Foster!) and he doesn't like the recent SCOTUS decisions about the Affordable Care Act or Same Sex Marriage.

You'd think the black church arsons would cheer him up, or Dylann Storm's antics, but they just can't seem to pull him out of his funk.

So he's back to stealing names. Notice he's been lashing out at Tom Degan? There's some real anger behind his pathetic trolling.

Most people become discouraged and quit commenting here once they see their name stolen. Which is why we're down to about three people, and HarleyA. I don't think he's ever stolen her name.

At 7:26 PM, Anonymous Mozart1220 said...

This is why we need guns. The incompetent idiotic federal government is the largest employer in the United States, and yet it can only muster SIXTEEN people in the counter-radicalization team.

At 10:58 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Did Trump stick his foot in his mouth or what! He is getting his ass kicked for being a mega asshole. He makes just one speech and losing millions. Tom is your stomach hurting from laughing too hard ?

At 12:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money.

"Greek banks down to €500m in cash reserves as economy crashes"

At 3:31 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Tom, someone is stealing names again. Please delete
e and ban the IP addy. Thank you

At 3:35 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Don't worry, I'm not letting the cowardly little piss ant drive me out. But I do have a friend who's an IT tech and if I ask he could track the little weasel through his posts. He REALLY doesn't want his real name and all his personal info posted in public.

At 8:59 AM, Anonymous Old-Fashioned American Citizen said...

Mozart the crybaby, pass this on to all your friends:

Nearly twenty years ago, to be precise on January 8, 1996, New York Times columnist Bill Safire wrote:

“Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our First Lady -- a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation -- is a congenital liar.”

He started the next paragraph, the second, with “Drip by drip,” but you can read it for yourselves,

At 9:45 AM, Anonymous Walleye said...

If Hillary manages somehow to slither through all of her scandals and enough LIFs come out to vote to get her elected, we indeed have become the stupid American voters that Gruber named us. And we'll get what we deserve, a shameless, money grubbing liar for a president that will shred any American dignity that Obama accidentally left us with.

At 9:51 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Conservatives are funny, they do not realize Hillary is one of them!

At 10:18 AM, Anonymous Smokey Lagumski said...

lol James. Will the real James Hansen please stand up!

I don't have a trade mark on Smokey Lagumsky, but I won't crap my pants like that little baby Mozart if someone else uses it.

James, Hillary aids and profits off of Crony capitalism even selling out America so that Russians can acquire plutonium in the US. Even the Kochs are not that greedy.

James Hillary is really a conservative?:

The Clinton health care plan, known officially as the Health Security Act, was a 1993 healthcare reform package proposed by the administration of President Bill Clinton and closely associated with the chair of the task force devising the plan, First Lady of the United States Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Opposition to the plan was heavy from conservatives, libertarians, and the health insurance industry.

The conservative Heritage Foundation argued that "the Clinton Administration is imposing a top-down, command-and-control system of global budgets and premium caps, a superintending National Health Board and a vast system of government sponsored regional alliances, along with a panoply of advisory boards, panels, and councils, interlaced with the expanded operations of the agencies of Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Labor, issuing innumerable rules, regulations, guidelines, and standards."

Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan qualified his agreement that "there is no health care crisis" by stating "there is an insurance crisis" but also indicated "anyone who thinks [the Clinton health care plan] can work in the real world as presently written isn't living in it."

James, Hillary was trying to implement a Soviet style program like Obama has succeeded in doing. it is only a matter of time before ObamaCare goes belly up just like Greece. But there will always be progressive dreamers like you that Moynihan spoke of.

At 11:31 AM, Anonymous Sore Loser said...

Smokey Lagumski

Well said sir, well said.

Seem to recall ole Tom saying he was going to vote for Hillary and asked others to do the same just a few weeks ago. Now with the truth coming out about her, Mr. Hansen is claiming she's a conservative. Interesting isn't it?

In the mean time, while she crashes and burns, Mozart (a.k.a Cry Baby) is upset that someone "stole" his name. WAAA. Meanwhile the economic collapse of Greece is blamed on any and everyone other than the truth which is socialism. It isn't very pretty when socialism runs out of other people's money.

Happy Independence Day to you Smokey, it's great to live in a country where you can fly the flag you want, without fear of the govt.

At 11:53 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

"Yeah, I'm a "crybaby" for asking that little cowardly bitches be banned for stealing screen names.

Good thing you aren't here in person, you'd never type again.

At 12:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom sparks more childish garbage from his readers. It's been that way for nine years.


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