Sunday, May 24, 2015

Mass Murder for Laughs

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Wayne LaPierre

This is beautiful. Finally a mass killing we can all get a few giggles out of. 

It happened on Sunday in - OF ALL PLACES! - Waco, Texas. Three rival bike gangs (or "clubs" as they prefer to be called) found themselves at the right place at the wrong time. In this case, that place was an establishment called the Twin Peaks Diner. Someone said the wrong thing to the wrong person; or perhaps it was a long smoldering tiff that exploded at this particular instant. Whatever the case, before anyone could figure out what was happening, these nitwits were shooting at each other - in a public place where small children were present. When it was over, nine of these idiotic bastards lay dead. Isn't that something?

I not going to apologize for finding the humor in this latest bloodbath in America. In a shit-for-brains state like Texas (where carrying concealed weapons are not only legal, they're encouraged) this sort of "incident" should be expected from time-to-time. This wasn't Newtown, Connecticut, where twenty-six people, most of them children, were slaughtered in cold blood. These were grown men who apparently had their "manhood" put to the test. Scores need gonna be settled, Bubba! Some folks're gonna pay some dues! Right. 

Which brings me back to Wayne LaPierre's insanely idiotic quote about good guys with guns stopping the bad guys with guns. Everyone of these assholes thought that he was "the good guy" taking out "the bad guy". Can't you see how screamingly funny this is?

Yeah, this is the "freedom" that the NRA types love to scream about. How free would you have felt had you been a patron of the Twin Peaks Restaurant on the early afternoon of May 17, 2015. Say you were dining out with your spouse and two children, minding your own damned business when, out of the blue, bullets are whizzing all about you? I dare to venture the judgement that you would not have felt very "free" at all. Call it a stupid hunch on my part if it'll make you feel any better.

There still is a bit of confusion as to whether or not any of the dead were killed by the police - and one person, a Vietnam vet whose family says that he has a history of involvement with bike clubs/gangs but was not part of any of the groups involved in the Twin Peaks melee, might have been an innocent victim. The police apparently pleaded with the owner of the place not to allow this meeting to happen. They know a potential tinderbox when they see one.  The owner refused to comply. MONEY! MONEY! MONEY!

Interestingly enough, all is quiet from the halls of the right wing scream machine this morning. I guess that that's to be expected under the circumstances; but can you imagine the howl ensuing from their amplifiers had the shooting been between the Crypts and the Bloods - two notorious, predominantly African American gangs? Fox Noise would be on the story twenty-four/seven. They really haven't much to say about this one, though. A story as ugly as this tends to smudge up their rose-colored lenses just a tad, if you know what I mean. Texas is rugged, American individualism at its finest. Texas is for MANLY men. Keep the propaganda flowing. Ignore the blood. Ignore the bodies. Oh, beautiful for spacious skies....

FYI: Members of biker gangs (at least the few who bother to vote) tend to be EXTREMELY right wing. Those swastika tattoos that too many of these clowns wear on their biceps do not necessarily symbolize their commitment to civil rights.  No, there won't be much outraged bloviation out of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on this score - count on it.

This will probably the last time for a while that we'll be able to get a good giggle out of a shooting of this magnitude. This time the victims were not too innocent or untainted by time and fate. They were just a bunch of bad asses who wouldn't have walked into a public restaurant armed and dangerous if they hadn't been looking for trouble. Their loss isn't too important. The next time (and it's coming sooner than you think) will be a real tragedy, one quite possibly more unspeakable than that which occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary on December 15, 2013.

Fasten  your seat belts and get them hankies ready, kiddies!

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

Something to think about

Teddy and Will, 1909

The Bully Pulpit 
by Doris Kearns-Goodwin

I'm now at the point in my life where I believe that Doris Kearns-Goodwin is incapable of writing a bad book. Every one of them have been a gem - and this one is hardly the exception to the rule.

This is about the friendship of Theodore Roosevelt and William Howard Taft - and the eventual disintegration of that friendship. The  thing I am most impressed with is learning how far ahead of his time Taft was as a progressive. What also impressed me was his relationship with his wife, Nellie Herron. Theirs was a real partnership in all respects - a quarter century before Franklin and Eleanor. That said, any well-written book that has TR as a central figure is always going to be a good read. I cannot recommend this one enough.


At 11:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WACO (The Borowitz Report) – Suspects in the recent biker brawl in Waco, Texas, only slightly outnumber the 2016 Republican Presidential candidates, leading some voters to have difficulty distinguishing between the two groups, a new poll shows.

According to the poll, voters who were presented the names of a biker-brawl suspect and a Republican Presidential candidate correctly identified both only thirty per cent of the time.

For example, fifty-seven per cent of voters erroneously identified the former Texas Governor Rick Perry as a member of the Bandidos motorcycle gang, while forty-one per cent believed he belonged to the Cossacks.

Adding to voters’ confusion, the biker brawlers and G.O.P. candidates have identical views on a host of issues, such as gun rights and whether they would feel comfortable attending a gay wedding.

While the number of biker-brawl suspects stands at a hundred and seventy, if current trends continue, the Republican field could blow past that number by early summer, possibly deepening voters’ confusion.

But, in one positive sign for the Republicans, they notched a higher approval rating than the Waco suspects, five per cent to three.

At 12:14 PM, Blogger De_Bill said...

The only tragedy is more of those nitwits didn't die. You'd think in Texas of all places, they could get a better body count.

At 4:02 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Fox News didn't mention the Black street gangs that formed a truce and worked together to protect businesses and people in Baltimore from the rioters. Go figure.

At 5:19 PM, Anonymous JJ said...

"Kessler is a GOP shill.

"Kessler's writings have been criticized in publications such as the Washington Post and The Week for overt partisanship and a lack of journalistic rigor.""

We all know Slick Willie Clinton did not sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.

Until the blue stained dress appeared.

We all know Slick Willie Clinton did not drop his pants in front of Paula Jones.

Until Paula Jones said she could identify distinguishing marks of Slick Willie's genital area.

LOL LOL LOL on what Arkansas trailer trash the Clintons are.

At 5:21 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Ah, yes. American exceptionalism on display for the world to see, and the NRA/GOP to ignore...while they blame Obama for "invading" Texas.

Don't forget the fact these gangs are right wingers to the max.

Also don't forget we have the Family Fondling Values of the Duggers on display as well.

Beacons of light from the shining city on the hill for the world to envy!

At 6:44 PM, Anonymous JJ said...

I honestly don't know if I can physically tolerate Hillery as president. I went nuts when "that one" got elected... twice! The Kenyan Usurper. My hero Donald Trump raised some good questions about his birth certificate but was mocked by the liberals in the network news. Unfair!

So I'm sweating like a pig every night, worrying about Hillery getting elected. Can't sleep a wink.

I mean, c'mon you stupid people! You want a woman president? We got Carly! She can do for our country what she did to Hewlett-Packard. You want another black president? We got Ben! He says some reasonable things!

But please, please don't elect Hillery.

It'll kill me.

At 6:49 PM, Anonymous JJ said...

LOL LOL LOL The Clintons are trailer trash!

Not like that good man Hucklebee. You remember his son getting kicked out of the boyscouts for hanging a dog by its neck and cutting its throat?

Boys will be boys, right? That's what I said about Josh Duggar.

I hope ¡Jeb! wins... we could use another member of the Bush crime family in the white house.

At 8:57 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

JJ (Boy Troll)

Clinton came forward and apologized and guess what? HIS POPULARITY SOARED!!

Forget the fact that his personal life is none of our business, and that Paula Jones was on the GOP payroll.

Bush lied us into a war and thousands of American soldiers died.

Clinton lied about a consentual affair,(like any man would) no one died, and you cons think it's the crime of the century.

Want to bring up modern history, like ISIS rising from Bush's Iraq war, or almost all of the GOP candidates supporting the pedophile cult of the Duggars?

At 7:28 AM, Anonymous Just The Facts TM said...

"Bush lied us into a war and thousands of American soldiers died."

You have selective progressive leaning forward memory. Lets not forget the Clintons BEFORE GWB regarding Iraq:

Bill Clinton

The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 is a United States Congressional statement of policy calling for regime change in Iraq.[1][2] It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, and states that it is the policy of the United States to support democratic movements within Iraq. The Act was cited in October 2002 to argue for the authorization of military force against the Iraqi government.

The Act declared that it was the Policy of the United States to support "regime change." The Act was passed 360-38 in the U.S. House of Representatives[4] and by unanimous consent in the Senate.[5] US President Bill Clinton signed the bill into law on October 31, 1998. The law's stated purpose was: "to establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq." Specifically, Congress made findings of past Iraqi military actions in violation of International Law and that Iraq had denied entry of United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) inspectors into its country to inspect for weapons of mass destruction. Congress found: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime." On December 16, 1998, President Bill Clinton mandated Operation Desert Fox, a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Hillary Clinton

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security.

This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction."

Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York)
Addressing the US Senate
October 10, 2002

At 7:38 AM, Anonymous Just The Facts TM said...

Can you smell my desperation? My fear?

Please, please don't elect Hillery!

At 7:56 AM, Anonymous Just The Facts TM said...

How about ¡Jeb! for president! He'll do a good job, right???

His foreign policy advisors are the same ones from his brother's administration.

And maybe he'll put Dick Cheney in charge of picking his vice president! Wouldn't that be great?

Bush/Cheney in 2016!

At 8:38 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

I think the name stealing by the Conservatives is just stupid shit and that goes for Liberals as well. Make your rebuttal and arguments without being juvenile.

At 9:45 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

JJ: "But please, please don't elect Hillery. It'll kill me."

Finally! good reason to elect Hillary... ;-)

At 9:55 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Waco surely has a sordid history, doesn't it?...and always, law enforcement right in the middle of it.

At 11:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

James Hansen, you said:

Make your rebuttal and arguments without being juvenile.

Well, you're a better man than I am Gunga Din. Let's see your own experience on this blog. You posted as James Hansen. The BoyTroll used your name to post a bunch of TeaParty bullshit. So you started posting under just your initials, JH. The BoyTroll very recently made more bullshit comments under the name "JH"

He linked to a virus. Mozart clicked on it and had to clean out his computer. BoyTroll has used a variety of sockpuppet names to post TeaParty and racist bullshit and then AGREE WITH HIMSELF.

If a new person visits and makes "liberal" remarks, he steals their name.

But by all means, James, keep posting reasonable rebuttals to him. And when he steals your name, and then your initials, you can post under a punctuation mark.

Until he steals that.

As for me? I'll keep fucking with him.

At 4:24 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Just the "Facts"

How many times did Clinton invade Iraq?


How many died as a result?


How many WMD's were found when Bush invaded?


How many died as a result?

Nearly 5,000 American soldiers and 500,000 Iraqis including mostly civilians.

Your turn.

At 4:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a shame. But, after all, it's only Texas,livin' life as the seem fit....

At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Josh Dugger said...

You filthy liberal scum need to shut up about our good, Christian, Republican voting biker brethren.

You dirty hippies have no real American family values like we do. You are all hypocrites!

At 3:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From the Washington Post:

If you’re a Republican primary voter, you’re probably feeling pretty good about the presidential primaries. Even if you haven’t yet found the candidate who will make you swoon, one thing you’ve got is choices… But while the voters might find this an embarrassment of riches, for the party’s leaders and financiers, it looks like a recipe for trouble. Which is how I interpret this news:

In a Saturday interview on the Larry Kudlow Show, a nationally syndicated radio broadcast, David Koch let it slip that the roughly $900 million that he and his brother, Charles, plan to lavish on the 2016 presidential race could find its way into the hands of more than one GOP contender.

“We are thinking of supporting several Republicans,” David Koch said, adding, “If we’re happy with the policies that these individuals are supporting, we’ll finance their campaigns.”…

Up until now, the Koch brothers hadn’t indicated that they’d be taking a side in the primaries. It almost seemed that they viewed that as the kind of thing amateurs like Sheldon Adelson do, throwing money at some candidate based on overly irrational personal feelings, while they keep focused on the real goal of getting a Republican — any Republican — into the White House. By saying they’re going to support several candidates in the primaries, the Kochs are pledging to accelerate the winnowing process, by which the race’s chaff can be sloughed off and the focus can stay on the serious contenders…

And the Kochs aren’t the only ones trying to do this winnowing. Fox News, which always keeps the long-term interests of the Republican Party in mind, recently announced that in the first debate of the season, it will be refusing admittance to all but 10 candidates… Ten is still a large number of candidates, but that first debate will be a key moment in the winnowing process.

If the Kochs are ready to put some of their ample resources into the primary campaign, it’s a sign that the enormous size of the primary field is generating some serious concern at the top of the GOP. The question is whether, even with their money, there’s much they can do about it.

At 7:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


"War On Cops": Fox News Abandons Its Catchphrase When Bike Gangs Threaten Police

At 1:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Don't forget the fact these gangs are right wingers to the max."

I'd ask how Dumbya came up with this FACT, but he would claim he need not to because somebody didn't answer his. Or I'd be accused of stealing his name or some other crazy crap from the little east coast liberal prick

At 1:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You sound angry, BoyTroll.

it just isn't fun anymore, is it. So sad.

All those east coat liberal pricks bothering you. You live in California? That's a new one.

You really think those bikers are liberals? That they watch Rachel Maddow and support Elizabeth Warren?

"The thrill is gone" as B.B. King sang. He was singing to you.

At 2:10 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

So the Boy Troll supports the Duggars and dares to comment on Liberals? Hilarious.

At 7:17 PM, Anonymous Hopey McChange said...


Why are you crapping on the extremist NAZI right wing bikers who cling to their bibles and guns and listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News?

They distribute the good weed to AmeriKa that we smoke to help us dream of our utopia full of unicorns, rainbows, and social justice.

Its just not funny. Dude you need to chill out.

And its good to hear from Saul Alinsky's Favorite Radical Son, Dave "Just an old fashioned AmeriKan" Dubya!

At 8:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No matter what name you post under, it's still the same old BoyTroll rant. "Saul Alinsky, America (with a K), radicals"

The same obsessions, over and over.

We need a better troll.

At 9:41 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

It's getting harder and harder every day to figure out how ANYONE, even the filthy rich, can support the GOP.

At 9:52 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Anonymous at 11:29 Your post is totally correct, carry on.

At 1:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Golly sounds like some of our resident liberal east coast pricks dont like being called out for lack of evidence. Better to just let them live on their own swill of ignorance and prejudice, it's so much easier that way. Plus if you clean them up you can't smell them coming.
You can lead a liberal east coast prick to the truth, but you can't make em believe it.

At 1:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Via LA Times:

Labor leaders, who were among the strongest supporters of the citywide minimum wage increase approved last week by the Los Angeles City Council, are advocating last-minute changes to the law that could create an exemption for companies with unionized workforces.

The push to include an exception to the mandated wage increase for companies that let their employees collectively bargain was the latest unexpected detour as the city nears approval of its landmark legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020.

For much of the past eight months, labor activists have argued against special considerations for business owners, such as restaurateurs, who said they would have trouble complying with the mandated pay increase.

But Rusty Hicks, who heads the county Federation of Labor and helps lead the Raise the Wage coalition, said Tuesday night that companies with workers represented by unions should have leeway to negotiate a wage below that mandated by the law.

“With a collective bargaining agreement, a business owner and the employees negotiate an agreement that works for them both. The agreement allows each party to prioritize what is important to them,” Hicks said in a statement. “This provision gives the parties the option, the freedom, to negotiate that agreement. And that is a good thing.”

Anyone surprised by this?

At 6:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BoyTroll, you said:

"The same obsessions, over and over."

As bad as Tommy's with the deceased young girl and FDR?

First of all, Troll, this is Tom's blog. He can write about whatever he wants.

And we noticed how you left your wingnut comments all over his tribute to her. I knew you were an asshole. You didn't disappoint. You have no soul.

Human emotions are obviously something alien to you. Do you have any normal personal relationships, or do you spend ALL your time trolling progressive blogs under the name Sore Loser?

It's been said again and again that wingnuts do a lot of projecting. You take all your ignorance and flaws and try to accuse us of having them. It's hilarious that you call us ignorant.

Read this:

… The idea that Fox News operates with different aims and by different norms from those of, say, the BBC is familiar. But this presentation is notable for two reasons.

The first is its source—for those who don’t know, Bruce Barlett is a veteran of the Reagan and Bush-41 administrations and was an influential early proponent of supply-side / tax-cut economics. He also worked for Ron Paul. Since then he’s harshly criticized the Bush-43 administration, but in no sense does he come at this as a Democratic party operative.

The second and more important reason is Bartlett’s accumulation of detail showing (a) that Fox’s core viewers are factually worse-informed than people who follow other sources, and even those who don’t follow news at all, and (b) that the mode of perpetual outrage that is Fox’s goal and effect has become a serious problem for the Republican party, in that it pushes its candidates to sound always-outraged themselves…

This paper also refreshes the question many people discussed after the Karl Rove / Megyn Kelly dustup on election night 2012 (when Kelly was operating in atypical “let’s stop fooling ourselves” mode). When will Republicans who care about winning national elections, or actually governing, stop thinking of Fox as a help and start viewing it as a hindrance, and what will happen when they do?

BoyTroll, you're a human stain.

At 9:54 AM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

SL, you are like the barely tolerated guest who gets extremely drunk and throws up at the dinner table. You are done here, time to move on to the next blog where they do not know you.

At 9:56 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

I removed both of his comments. They can't argue the facts so they need to stoop to that. Pretty pathetic.

At 2:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gee Tom, what if the posts were by two different people?

At 3:31 PM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Gee, do you really thing there could possibly be two people that mean and stupid? This deserves some serious pondering.

At 9:43 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

George Pataki is running for president, the only Republican I would ever vote for if the choice was between him and Hillary.

He is not a nut job like all the other Conservative "Actors" running so he probably will not get too far.

I think 2016 to 2020 will be a pivotal time for the US and having an idiot for President could be our undoing.

At 2:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well Tom you'd better start thinking. Read the posts on you own blog.

Here's an example

"as for me? I'll keep fucking with him" To which James Hansen said "Anonymous at 11:29 Your post is totally correct, carry on."

Two different people, sorry you not bright enough to see that.

At 2:35 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

Were you aware of the fact that there were seven errors of spelling and punctuation in that last posting?

Who's not bright enough?

At 1:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that one-out-of-three Likely U.S. Voters (35%) now believes that illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote if they can prove they live in this country and pay taxes. Sixty percent (60%) disagree, while five percent (5%) are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

Fifty-three percent (53%) of Democrats think tax-paying illegal immigrants should have the right to vote. Twenty-one percent (21%) of Republicans and 30% of voters not affiliated with either major political party agree.

Gee,I told you so.

At 2:28 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

More biker gang members NOT watching Rachel Maddow...

Right Wing Bikers: Exhibit 8,749.

They're planning on an armed "protest" asserting their First, and Second of course, Amendment rights. Muslims First Amendment rights don't apply, of course.

Everyone is encouraged to bring American Flags and any message that you would like to send to the known acquaintances of the 2 gunmen. This Islamic Community Center is a known place that the 2 terrorist frequented.

People are also encouraged to utilize there [sic] second amendment right at this event just incase our first amendment comes under the much anticipated attack.

1. Date will be Friday May 29th @ 6:15pm. This is when they normally host a large prayer.

2. Bikers wil meet at the Denny’s located at 9030 N Black Canyon Hwy Phoenix, AZ 85051 5:00pm. Kick Stands up at 6pm.

3. There will be a Muhammad Cartoon Contest and the winner will be announced at the After Party. Participants must show cartoon at the Rally.

Right wing wackos are indeed oblivious to their own hate, as well as so much of reality.

At 3:24 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

I'm confused on the "right wing biker gang" theme of some of the posts.

Are we saying the incident in Waco was between biker gangs whose primary focus was on right wing political interests?

Also, were the Charlie Hebdo writers "haters"?

At 3:26 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

To be clear, I'm not denying that this group hates Muslims. I'm quite certain they do.

At 3:55 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Are we saying the incident in Waco was between biker gangs whose primary focus was on right wing political interests?

Interesting twist on my words. I can respond in kind.

Are we saying "open carry" of deadly weapons by angry white guys is NOT a right wing political interest?

Are we saying hating and openly antagonizing Muslims are not hallmarks of the American Right?

Did you know Republican and conservative voices have promoted the idea of "retraining bikers" to fight ISIS?

Remember Hell's Angels stomping Vietnam anti-war protesters?

What is confusing about this? Perhaps your question needs clarification.

At 3:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Former Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert allegedly paid hush money to cover up sexual misconduct with a male dating to his time as a coach and teacher in Yorkville, according to a source familiar with the investigation.

Hastert, 73, of Plano, was indicted Thursday on allegations he paid hush money to cover up misconduct against an unnamed individual referred to in court papers only as “Individual A.” The misconduct wasn’t specified in the indictment, only that it happened years ago and that the individual had known Hastert for most of the individual’s life.

At 4:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And Hastert had this in his past, and was leading the charge for Clinton’s impeachment.

It’s always projection with these republicans.

They're always projecting.

At 6:52 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

I was in no way trying to twist your words...just trying to understand how the conversation got to "right wing" biker gangs from Tom's topic. And, I see now from the blog history that you didn't initiate that. Was just strange because I'd consider the Waco wackos as politically leaning towards anarchist best I can tell. I cannot discern a political agenda - rather a pissing match about badges on a denim jacket. So, I guess there was a change in direction of the topic that I didn't pick up on. I ignore a large portion of the conversations in The Rant these days for obvious reasons...

To your question, yes, openly antagonizing Muslims is a hallmark of SOME on "the right". Some of it fair, some unfair. Though, I wouldn't call Charlie Hebdo the right, and they are fully engaged in antagonizing Muslims. And, Muslims are actively engaged in antagonizing others on a regular basis (and each other for that matter)...

Thus my desire for clarification. Do you see Hebdo differently (if you do) because you see their antagonism as more philosophically "fundamental" and consider right wing bikers' antagonism as xenophobia? Honest curiosity...

On the gun thing, that is a topic that is too complex for me, and one I really have no good answers for. The valid reason to have them is also the reason to get rid of them. In the meantime, I have one for protection. But, I don't love it and don't even enjoy practicing with it. It's purpose is morbid and I'd rather think I'll never use it. The issue presents a logical knot that I don't know we'll ever unwind and it a very difficult issue. Once all of us at least admit that, we may have a chance to get somewhere with it.

At 8:51 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

HarleyA:"...just trying to understand how the conversation got to "right wing" biker gangs from Tom's topic."

From Tom’s post:

Yeah, this is the "freedom" that the NRA types love to scream about.

FYI: Members of biker gangs (at least the few who bother to vote) tend to be EXTREMELY right wing. Those swastika tattoos that too many of these clowns wear on their biceps do not necessarily symbolize their commitment to civil rights. No, there won't be much outraged bloviation out of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on this score - count on it.

Charlie Hebdo wrapped their provocative "satire" in free speech. The difference is they didn't invite people to come armed for a face to face confrontation. That was decided by the radical terrorists.

Over here the "free speech" is direct confrontation and provocation with open brandishing of firearms.

Both parties forget free speech is founded on the right of citizens to question, assemble and petition the power of government, not to antagonize, provoke and confront other citizens with weapons. In this case the armed thugs on bikes are at the minimum provoking, and at worst terrorizing the Muslims exercising their First Amendment right to their religion.

I am also a firearm owner, not out of fear, but from growing up in a rural area with sporting guns. So far I have not needed them for either self defense or "free speech".

The US is doomed to be an armed and fearful nation. Pandora's box is opened and the only way to close it would be the "tyranny" of firearm confiscation. There is no longer any debate. The NRA and firearm industry have won. Their will is to be imposed over the majority of Americans who support more background checks and other safety measures of firearm sales to the public.

This fits the pattern of other corporate "persons" like banks and corporations writing laws and regulations of, by and for the authors of the regulations.

And anyone exercising their free speech that criticizes this consolidation of corporate/government power is now demonized as Marxist commies by many of those who agree corporations are persons with Constitutional rights, and think brandishing weapons is free speech.

This is the American exceptionalism on display for the world to see.

At 10:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom Degan needs to get a fucking job and stop mooching from everybody else that goes to work.

No doubt he will vote for that Arkansas Trailer Park skank Hillary who is more greedy than the Koch Brothers.

And nobody gives a fuck about what the Michigan prison guard has to say. Its nobody's fault but his that he is an underachiever and rots in a prison.

Nuff said.

At 10:54 PM, Anonymous James Hansen said...

Time to hit the delete button again Tom.

One of the small pleasures in life, watching idiotic posts dissipate into the either. LOL

At 11:38 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I must admit I accept the overflowing of their bottomless well of hate as validation of my position. I take it as a compliment to my having stirred up his anger, proving he has no stance with honest discussion.

What can I say? Such sport occasionally amuses me. I have a bit of a sick sense of humor.

But yeah, I agree his filth and personal bile add nothing, and would not me missed.

At 1:18 AM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

"And anyone exercising their free speech that criticizes this consolidation of corporate/government power is now demonized as Marxist commies by many of those who agree corporations are persons with Constitutional rights, and think brandishing weapons is free speech."

I agree to some extent. But there are those of us who consider ourselves to be more on the conservative end of the spectrum who would agree with you to a large extent on the danger in the current state of corporate influence in our government and ownership of our government officials. I just think to try to somehow project the beliefs and actions of anti-social bigots onto the average conservative American is not fair. Look, I'm no fan of Islam in general, and certainly I do feel animosity towards radical Islam, but I don't agree with or excuse such tactics. It tends to feed the radical Islamic agenda more than defeat it - which is a subtle victory (and not unplanned) for the radical Islamists.

Apologize on my confusion on the right wing biker topic. I confess I must not have fully read Tom's post.

At 6:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As usual, Chauncey Devega puts it excellent perspective:

The gun battle chaos in Waco was a result of rivalries between outlaw motorcycle clubs, in competition with one another for the profits from drug and gun traffic, various protection rackets, and other criminal enterprises. The Baltimore uprising was a reaction to social, economic, racial, and political injustice; a desperate plea for justice in an era of police brutality and white-on-black murder by the state.

The participants in the Waco, Texas gun battle were almost exclusively white. The participants in the Baltimore Uprising were almost all black. Quite predictably, the corporate news media’s narrative frame for those events was heavily influenced by race. News coverage of these two events has stretched the bounds of credulity by engaging in all manner of mental gymnastics in order to describe the killings, mayhem, and gun battle in Waco as anything other than a “riot.”

White racial logic demands that whites and blacks engaged in the same behavior are often described using different language. (White people have a “fracas,” while black people “riot”; during Hurricane Katrina white people were “finding food,” while black people were “looting.”)

In the post civil rights era, White racial logic also tries to immunize and protect individual white folks from critical self-reflection about their egos and personal relationships to systems of unjust and unearned advantage by deploying a few familiar rhetorical strategies, such as “Not all white people,”
“We need to talk about class not race,” or similarly hollow and intellectual vapid and banal claims about “reverse racism.” Ego, language, and cognition intersect in the belief that Whiteness is inherently benign and innocent.

Here's the link:

At 8:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does white racial logic have to do with FBI/DOJ statistics that show 52% of all murders are committed by blacks?

At 8:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BoyTroll, in the good old days you would have posted that comment as "Rev. Al Sharptoon" or "Witherspoons".

Aren't you having fun here anymore?

At 9:53 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Every once in a while, the Boy Troll posts something that makes me think he ran out of Methadone.

At 11:33 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

there are those of us who consider ourselves to be more on the conservative end of the spectrum who would agree with you to a large extent on the danger in the current state of corporate influence in our government and ownership of our government officials.

It's good that some conservatives are independent thinkers. And I'm not implying that only or all liberals are independent thinkers.

The neo-liberal corporatists have taken on the conservative label and have conflated their corporatist agenda with conservatism. It is not. It is radical change from the concept of a democratic representative republic. When a corporation is a person, with its money accepted as "free speech" in our electoral and governing processes, we have lost our foundation.

When the radical right opposes, demonizes and dismantles our Constitutional regulation of commerce and general welfare, they are in conflict with the founders vision of America itself.

These days liberals, progressives, and socialists are the advocates of conserving our Constitutional democratic republic.

Liberals are now the traditional conservatives while many conservatives are in fact neo-liberals.

This further enables divide and conquer tactics by the powers of wealth that corrupt our economic and governing policies.

I invite all conservatives to reject the spell of neo-liberalism and join our cause in conserving our democratic republic.

I often wonder why good American Christian conservatives are duped by the servants of mammon Jesus warned them about.

One theory is the twisted idea of "wealth is virtue", along with dangerous concept that money is a corporate "person's" free speech. These are promoted by corporate media every day.

Liberties are individual liberties in a free society.

Allowing individual constitutional liberties to non-human artificial entities is inviting inequality and surrender of our principles of representative democracy.

This is of course dangerous thinking to neo-liberals and misled conservatives. There is why we are demonized and falsely accused as Marxist commies.

The accusers have a vast corporate media platform, and are working feverishly to dupe the public into thinking Bernie Sanders is out of the mainstream.

He is not.

You've seen the dishonest and hateful ideology expressed by the troll. What does he think he is conserving?

He's no conservative. He a radical Right neo-liberal to the core. He reveres and shills for the servants of mammon. He is far more anti-American than any socialist.

At 12:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart once again proves that you can lead a liberal to the truth but you can't make him believe it.

Then of course there is the liberal favorite response to the truth of the ad hominem.

So progressive.

At 2:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then of course there is the liberal favorite response to the truth of the ad hominem.

So progressive.

BoyTroll has NEVER attacked anyone here. He has never attacked Tom Degan. He has never insulted other commenters. And he simply can't understand why the libruls are so mean.

He projects as much as Hastert.

At 6:03 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Boy Troll, didn't you tell us that word was "ad homine"?

Did you figure out that the Senate was part of congress yet?

And you never did answer to "Tehran Tom" Cotton and his "Treasonous 47".

And now your heroes the Duggars are in the news.

You think ALL the GOP candidates who did photo shoots with them will spend the time investigating THEM that they did Hillary?

At 9:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Say Mozart, that's quite a list of things you bring up, how about the names of the 6 papers you try to read each day
But dont deal with the fact that 52% of murders in America are committed by black's. This as reported by the Obama (black) Holder (black) DOJ/FBI

You see Mozart once the base of all liberal power, that being a down trodden, unfairly accused and treated minority is exposed as nothing more than race baiting, they have got nothing.
Remember Mozart, you said that Democrats wanted illegals to have the right to vote only after they became citizens, the polls show differently.
Gonna run from that now and say its racist to expect election laws to obeyed?

Next up, end the two term limit on Obama?

At 9:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just as Sen. Bernie Sanders’ progressive presidential challenge to Hillary Clinton is gaining steam, an old essay of his has surfaced in which he says women fantasize “being raped by 3 men simultaneously.”

“A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy. A woman on her knees, a woman tied up, a woman abused,” Sanders, 73, wrote in 1972 for an alternative newspaper called the Vermont Freeman.

“A woman enjoys intercourse with her man — as she fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously.”

In another part of the article he wrote:

“Do you know why the newspapers with articles like ‘Girl, 12, raped by 14 men’ sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?”

Sanders was 30 at the time and was running for both the US Senate and governor of Vermont on the leftist Liberty Union Party line.

Sanders’ campaign is now trying to distance him from the article, calling it a “dumb attempt at dark satire in an alternative publication intended to attack gender stereotypes in the 1970s” that in “no way reflects his views or record on women.”

At 8:17 AM, Anonymous walleye said...

Bill and Hillary Clinton left the White House in 2000 by Hillary's own words, "dead broke". (though admittedly by a normal person's standards they were actually quite wealthy).

Now 15 yrs later, their wealth has grown to levels most Americans can't even begin to comprehend. We are supposed to believe this is because they are such great speakers that corporate entities and foreign nations throw money their way to bask in their genius. The reality is they have been engaged in naked influence peddling on a scale never seen before.

The idea this charlatan should now be allowed to re-enter the White House should be repugnant to every honest American left in this nation.

At 8:28 AM, Anonymous walleye said...

Anon @9:54PM

What quality candidates the Democrats have for their Presidential nominees! LOL.

At 10:21 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Notice how the Boy Troll avoids answering to the fact that he supports not only the cult of the Duggars, but the child abuse that results? Notice how he avoids talking about the TREASONOUS acts by GOP members of congress (That includes the Senate BTW) and the GOP governors of several states who have decided for themselves that the constitution is no longer convenient?

His only answer is irrelevant nonsense about the Clinton's bank accounts (which are pennies compared to the Bush's and Kochs) and a few out of context lines from a 40 year old text.

Sad...pathetic really. But it is telling.

At 7:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The cost of Obamacare could rise for millions of Americans next year, with one insurer proposing a 50 percent hike in premiums, fueling the controversy about just how “affordable” the Affordable Care Act really is.

The eye-popping 50 percent hike by New Mexico insurer Blue Cross Blue Shield is an outlier, and state officials may not allow it to go through. But health insurance experts are predicting that premiums will rise more significantly in 2016 than in the first two years of Obamacare exchange coverage. In 2015, for example, premiums increased by an average of 5.4 percent, according to PwC’s Health Research Institute.

At 7:51 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Notice the Boy Troll doesn't mention it's the INSURER raising rates which has nothing to do with the ACA. Rates have always risen, but the ACA has them rising at a lower rate across the board. 5.4% is less than the rates they have been going up, but go figure the Boy Troll doesn't say that either. Like Fox news he cheery picks things that LOOK bad out of context, knowing that conservatives aren't known for researching or fact checking.

I also noticed that he ignored the ACTUAL treasonous acts by his GOP heroes. Go figure.

At 11:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Notice how Mozart hasn't told us how he spent the $2500 he saved due to Obamacare.
Notice how he ignores the fact that the predictions are the rates will rise MORE in 2016 than the 5.4% in 2015. Nor does he support his claim that 5.4% is a reduction in the cost increases.

At 11:45 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

The Boy troll is deflecting again. I love how his questions get more and more ridiculous as time goes on.

But what can you expect from someone who gets all his info from "The BLaze"?

At 11:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart, again you have no clue where I get my info.. In one post you blame FOX, the next the Blaze. Meanwhile you never site your sources for your posts, cause your a liberal and liberals aren't held to the same level of accountability.

What is the problem with the Blaze or Politico, or the Hill or AP or the Washington Post or LA Times, or the NY Times, or Govt statistics for news sources? I've used them all. You just cant handle the truth, can you? In the immortal words of Ms. Clinton, "what difference does it make"?

Reread this thread Mozart and you will see it is you who deflects every time a post is made that runs counter to your radical progressive left wing views. Your just too brain dead to realize that.

At 12:34 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


We know the troll won’t look at the truth due to his blind ideological hate. His idea of “radical left wing progressive views” are in fact mainstream views. His cult forbids this truth.

How Mainstream is Bernie Sanders?

MOST Americans agree with Bernie Sanders on all his major policy positions, but the corporate media doesn’t want us to know this. Their corporate sponsors prefer to label Bernie as an outsider on the fringe.

Most Americans agree with Bernie on wealth distribution, Citizens United, education, student debt, climate change, etc.

This is incomprehensible to the fanatics of the far Right.

At 1:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BoyTroll asks the question: What is the problem with the Blaze?

The fact he believes anything the deranged rodeo clown Glenn Beck says is proof that BoyTroll has pig excrement for brains.

At 1:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your just too brain dead to realize that.

... says the BoyTroll who doesn't know the difference between you're and your.

Maybe you should take some of those government checks YOU'RE receiving and buy an English book to improve YOUR reading comprehension.

At 1:59 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

The Boy Troll claims I don't know were he gets his info. That's probably because he thinks that like conservatives, no one will fact check him. I look up what he says, and 9 times out of ten it is ONLY The Blaze, or other ultra right wing sources that make the claims. no other "evidence" is found.

And if you have to ask "What's wrong with The Blaze" no amount of explaining will help you.

At 2:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For the first time since 2011, more people support letting Obamacare "stand" rather than repeal it, per Quinnipiac

At 3:22 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Anyone actually participating in the ACA loves it. The only ones who really hate it seem to live in red states where they didn't allow the exchanges, and they blame the rising costs on Obama instead of the vindictive insurance corporations.

At 3:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For once, people with pre-existing conditions like diabetes or high blood pressure can't be denied coverage.

What a terrible thing!

How long before we start seeing pictures of angry old teabaggers holding signs that read, “Keep you’re government hands of my Obamacare!!!”?

At 4:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Site your sources Mozart..It's not a lie if you believe it.

At 7:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You mean cite your sources, moron?

You've mocked others here for "not knowing how to use spellcheck" so I feel you're fair game.

At 8:09 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Here's one great unimpeachable source for ya BT.

The 2012 Presidential election. Oh, and every honest poll that's ever been done on the subject. Hell, even your old Buddy Ted Cruz signed up!

At 8:09 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Here's one great unimpeachable source for ya BT.

The 2012 Presidential election. Oh, and every honest poll that's ever been done on the subject. Hell, even your old Buddy Ted Cruz signed up!

At 3:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So spell check should have caught the error? Amazing, has to look for something to make we all know he is an east coast liberal prick, and a little on at that.

How about that unimpeachable source the 2014 election? Missed that one?

At 3:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hillary Clinton is seeing her highest unfavorability ratings in 14 years, according to the latest CNN/ORC poll released Tuesday.

Just 46 percent said they view the Democratic presidential front-runner favorably, compared to 50 percent who said they have an unfavorable view. In the preceding April survey, Clinton polled with 53 percent favorable, compared to 44 percent unfavorable.

Now's there's a poll I can believe.

At 3:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Banning guns is like banning forks in an attempt to stop making people fat."

At 10:31 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

2014, like all mid terms has been explained to the Boy Troll over and over. But then, the BT is a conservative, so like Benghazi and IRS gate, no amount of facts will do the trick. He's got Fox news talking points to back him up.

As for polls, they change like the weather, especially when you word them a certain way and the BT only reports those parts that suit him.

There is a year and a half between now and the election. Polls are going to appear to show lots of things.

At 12:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing, even when Mozart is given the truth of the 2014 elections he will not accept it.
Delusional bubble cult.

At 12:49 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

"bubble cult"

Imitation (and projection) is the sincerest form of flattery.


At 6:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

who pulled your chain Dumbya?


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