Ammo for the Teacher
"A well regulated Militia,
being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
shall not be infringed."
being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
shall not be infringed."
"WELL REGULATED".
What part of that don't they get?
In the Hall of Fame of completely stupid ideas, the right wing in this country seems to have been in a race to outdo each other in terms of sheer idiocy. Hardly a day passes where at least ten examples of delightfully insane proposals are not dangled before the public for their entertainment. I sometimes get the impression that it's all merely a weird kind of advant garde performance art, Andy Kaufman-style. If one's passion is unintentional comedy, the president of the United States is a comic genius. Just when you think the silly bastard will never be able to top himself he comes up with a gem that is insane on so many different levels that it's hard to know where to begin. It really is!
Let's just get it out in the open: while requiring the teachers of our children to carry a weapon may be a hysterically funny thing to even visualize (no argument there) it is also an appallingly bad idea. If you had told me on the day I started this site that in less than twelve years I would be writing about such things, I probably would have felt your forehead. Show me a president that is taking seriously the idea of turning our nation's schools into armed camps and I'll show you a president who has lost his fucking mind. Of course I have known this unsettling fact about Donald Trump for over three decades. Many of you had to find out the hard way. Life can be funny that way, you know?
I've talked to several educators about this latest insanity making its way through our national political dialogue and almost all of them are defiantly opposed to this idea (One was trying not to think about it at all). One of them, a friend named Tarin Quattrini Hackbarth, put it this way:
"I couldn't imagine teaching English while wearing a gun holstered to my hip and a bullet proof vest under my 'professional' clothes. Plus, keep the attention of a room full of special education students that are high school age while getting them prepared to pass the state regents exam. That sounds exactly what I signed up for."
Well Put, Ms. Hackbarth!I am reminded of my kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Anabelle Peavey. When I had her in the 1963-64 school year, She seemed so elderly to me, although she probably wasn't much older than I am now - which is disturbing enough. She taught us to sew, a talent that has been quite useful to me down through the years. She also taught us little ones that sticks and stones might break our bones but words would never hurt us - advice that has proven handy to me over half a century later when I read the comments section on this blog. A couple of years ago, while attending the burial services of a friend at a cemetery not far from me, I happened upon her grave. As I stood in front of where her mortal remains rested silent and still in the earth below my feet, a lot of vivid memories came rushing back. Although she could be stern when infractions were committed (and I committed more than my share) Mrs. Peavey was, on the whole, a soft-spoken, cheerful and gentle influence on her little charges. I tell you these things for only one reason: I cannot - for the very life of me - imagine the old gal packing heat. I'm sorry, but the mind refuses to go there.
And let's not forget that not all teachers are sane by anyone's definition. I am convinced that my teacher in the eighth grade would have offed me had she had the means and opportunity. It might not take a mass shooting incident to cause the death of one mischievous kid. And it doesn't take a degree in sociology to conclude that a disproportionate percentage of kids killed in a fit of Teacher's rage would very likely be of the minority variety. No, arming Miss Crabtree is a perfectly nutty idea. Stymie is toast if that happens.
What could go wrong? Plenty.
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| The AK 15 |
Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but this is the way it's going to be from now on. It is the desire of our rulers to keep us in panic-stricken-fear of one another. They cannot hire an army of brown-shirt/enforcers to instill that fear - that would be too obvious. Just let the people do their brown-shirting for them. And what better way to do that than the easy accessibility of dangerous weapons capable of killing a room full of men, women and children in a matter of minutes - and do it quite efficiently, too!
I imagine that in less than five years, the bullet proof vest will be all-the-fashion rage. Won't that be something? Get used to this.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED READING:
Within George, Without Georgeby You-Know-Who
Not to change the topic, but today would have been the seventy-fifth birthday of George Harrison. Here is a little piece I wrote in tribute to this great and good man on November 29, 2011, the tenth anniversary of his passing:
https://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2011/11/within-george-without-george.html
Seventy-five years. My sweet Lord!
posted by Tom Degan @ 11:23 AM
56 comments
56 Comments:
Here's a bright idea. Pick every-other American and shoot them dead. Statistically, his will reduce by fifty percent the likely population (whatever it is) of school shooters in our midst. Hey NRA, I offer you this idea free. You too, Mr. President.
Yours crankily,
The New YOrk Crank
I have to ask if our Thomas Paine (who I call Toilet Paper) is the same Thomas Paine on twitter (twitter.com/Thomas1774Paine) called True Pundit?
"Here's a bright idea. Pick every-other American and shoot them dead. Statistically, [t]his will reduce by fifty percent the likely population (whatever it is) of school shooters..." ~~ The New York Crank
Probably a more efficient method would be to just shoot Trump's base intead.
You'll save time and money by eliminating, at most, 30% of the population -- yet at the same time reducing the pool of potential active shooters in schools by over 95%.
jG,
Just call it much later term abortion and the idea would fly, right?
Yep, now we are advocating shooting our political adversaries, J.G.? Even in jest, it is sick. That kind of mind set is deeply disturbing.
Mr. Degan, I would strongly argue AGAINST requiring every teacher being armed and trained. That violates their rights, if they choose not to be armed. Further, someone that is required to carry a firearm that is unwilling/unable to use it in a crisis situation only compounds an already dangerous and volatile instance.
That said, I think that those teachers that are of the proper mind-set to want to carry CONCEALED weapons at school should be allowed to do so, after having received the proper background clearance and provided proper training. One wonders how many fewer students would have been killed in Florida if the slain brave faculty members who were trying to save student had been armed and able to return fire.
It is something that the Israeli's have implemented long ago after a horrific school shooting there. They have only had two attempted attacks on their school children in the forty years since, and both were stopped by armed teachers. Instead of a knee-jerk reaction, if we are serious about protecting our children, perhaps this is indeed an idea worth considering. It is obvious that making schools and other public places into "gun free" zones only ensures that these areas become attractive soft targets for certain mentally ill and evil bastards.
I know folks on all sides of the debate want to protect our kids and loved ones in schools, churches, and other public places. What we are doing is not working. Making more laws will not help. Perhaps it is time to consider arming willing school staff.
https://www.westernjournal.com/israel-2-school-attacks-44-years-heres-make-sure-kids-safe/?utm_source=push&utm_medium=westernjournalism&utm_content=2018-02-21&utm_campaign=manualpost
Oh, and for the record, the United States is not even in the top 10 for mass shootings in the world. Indeed, some places with far stricter gun laws than ours have seen far greater episodes of mass shooters than we have, further adding to the evidence that more gun control laws will not solve the problem.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/
Are you aware Toilet Paper that there was an armed police officer on campus who refused to enter the school and stop the killer. So much for a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun. And three other police officers are being investigated for not entering the school to stop the killer and just hiding behind their cars. So your idiotic idea of arming teachers, which is Trump's idiotic idea along with the NRA isn't going to solve anything and will cause more deaths. Thanks again for letting us know you agree with the child president Trump and the NRA.
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Congratulations to Stonemen Douglas High School Hockey Team!
After being last seed and just days after the massacre in their school they won the Florida State Hockey Championship. They go on to Plymouth Minnesota for the national championships and I'll be rooting for them to win!
Paul, the actions of the armed security guard and the few deputies that refused to go inside the school to stop the shooter did not respond as their duties demanded. They failed and because of their cowardice, many more kids died than what could have been. That is why there is such outrage over their cowardly actions.
If the brave teachers within the school that were trying to save students had been armed, assuming they had chosen to be, they might have stopped the shooter and saved a lot of lives.
Just because a few officers decided to act shamefully does not mean that the idea does not have great merit. I am sorry if you still want to couch this in hateful partisan terms though. I think you and I both want to figure out how to best protect our children from such murderers. I would submit to you that more gun laws will not fix the problem though. The school, like nearly every other school and public venue where mass shootings occurred, were already legally "gun-free" zones.
http://savingcommonsense.blogspot.com/2018/02/the-heart-of-mass-shooting-phenomena.html
T. Paine, Trump advocated arresting and jailing his enemies so what's the difference?
The security guard and local police did EXACTLY what they should have done. Coordinate, and wait for reinforcements. It would have been SUICIDE to go against a MACHINE GUN with a handgun. He MIGHT have had ONE shot if he was lucky before being cut in half.
So instead of attacking and blaming THE GUARD,(which proves hos silly arming teachers would be)Why don't we go after the REAL problem, which is the unfettered access to military weapons that no civilian has any business owning.
The POLICE are against arming teachers, the TEACHERS are against it, and the STUDENTS certainly don't want it. So who does want it? Why, the NRA speaking for gun manufacturers. They would make BILLIONS from the sales to teachers (who pays for the weapons, training and inevitable funeral costs?)
What is it with the GOP? When there is a problem they think MORE of it is the solution.
Oh and T Paine, how could there be ARMED security in a "gun free zone"?
Remember when "gun free zones" were called PUBLIC PLACES?
It is you Toilet Paper that describes my comments as hate filled, which is just another one of your lies. I have little respect for those who lie within a debate, as you do. I have little respect for those who deny facts and use only opinion to discuss, as you do. I have zero respect for those who call law abiding citizens murderers, then compare those law abiding citizens to Nazi Germany, as you do.
I cannot have a discussion about national budgets when you support a budget with a built in trillion dollar deficit, then add an infrastructure bill with another trillion dollar deficit when we already have a 20 trillion dollar debt, and then call for huge tax cuts on top of all that debt. That is the height of irresponsibility.
When was the last time a good guy with a gun stopped one of these mass killers?
You do know that other school shootings had armed police on site, yet, not one ever stopped the bad guy. Virginia Tech (and many other schools where these massacres have occurred) had an armed cop on site and it did not help, and they were trained unlike the teachers you want to carry guns.
Everyday our schools have 100's of instances of violence. Students violent against teachers, teachers violent against students, students violent to other students, and you want to add guns to that equation?
One thousand children a year die from gun shot accidents because of unsafe gun storage in the home. You think it's impossible gun accidents won't happen if thousands of teachers start carrying guns in schools? Your logic in this matter is lacking in the extreme.
There is more than one cause for these massacres and for you to deny part of the problem is guns and then want to add more guns to the dangerous situation, is insane.
To deny that lives could be saved if a gunman only had a revolver instead of an AK-47, is dishonest.
Your thinking that the country would be safer if everyone carried a gun is idiotic.
The NRA/Republican stance that not even the smallest measures of regulations can be passed like smaller magazines, gun safes, etc., etc., is a sign of insincere negotiating and compromise and a joke to trying to do something serious about the gun problem in this country.
After the Republicans allowed the AWB to lapse killings with those kind of weapons have gone up 200%. Let some FACTS guide your thinking.
Everyone who unthinkingly advocates MORE guns anywhere is only shilling for the weapons industry and their bottom line.
I’m from the Great North Woods and hunted from a young age. I get it.
I never needed an AR15 to hunt, nor for self defense. Sport or no sport, they were designed to kill human beings. Now I’m attacked for agreeing with Reagan that we don’t need 30 round mags in semi-auto rifles in public. I still have a few guns, but I’ll be damned if I give a dime to the NRA. In the past they were very much about education and safety, but now they are primarily a political organization.
The indisputable bottom lines are these:
The more weapons that are in circulation, the more humans will die from them. With the cholera epidemic, shutting down the pump where the contaminated water came from saved lives. Shutting down weapons of war sold to the public WILL save lives.
Our Second Amendment was fine before AR15's and will be intact AFTER we shut down the pump. Just doing that much WILL save lives. Bottom line.
Why is it an issue? Gun nuts and chicken hawks care more for their toys than the lives of future and past victims. Of course, they will whine that it's not the case, but it is. Bottom line.
Despite the hollow platitudes about “freedom”, the NRA now exists solely to funnel wealth to weapons merchants and to empower the Republican Party. The NRA is virtually an arm of the Republican Party. Now they attack ALL liberals, and for every reason, even those who have guns. To HELL with those authoritarian, Trump-supporting assholes.
That means NRA money goes straight to the Party of Trump. There’s blood money flowing. It’s as if human sacrifice is accepted in the name of the Militia Amendment. For this we have thousands killed and millions living in fear, not freedom. Freedom, life, and liberty end at the point of a rifle. How many more would be alive if not for AR-15s and bump stocks? How many MORE deaths are acceptable to these ghoulish gun nuts and greedy weapons makers?
Stephanie Ruhle breaks down how much money the NRA has given to Republicans who talk about their “thoughts and prayers”—”The thoughts and prayers are with the victims. The dollars and cents are another story.”
https://www.facebook.com/Mediamatters/videos/10155322144601167/
The NRA spent $21 Million on supporting Trump and attacking Hillary.
Thanks for the “freedom”, boys. Putin thanks you too, as he laughs his ass off, watching Americans killing Americans. And he thanks Trump for the top secret intel in the Oval Office too. And these stupid assholes think THEY are the real patriots.
Amazing.
"The NRA/Republican stance that not even the smallest measures of regulations can be passed like smaller magazines, gun safes, etc., etc., is a sign of insincere negotiating and compromise and a joke to trying to do something serious about the gun problem in this country."
Paul, check your history, the NRA has supported the current gun regulations back ground checks, which are not been enforced, as exampled by gun killings in Chicago and most recently in FL. It makes more sense to recognize the failure to enforce current laws and correct those failures than accusing the supporters of the current laws as being the cause of gun violence.
I understand your distaste for the NRA as I have the same distaste for Planned Parenthood and their support of abortion at any time for any reason. How about we make a deal? In order to save human lives let's repeal the 2nd Amendment and legal abortion?
The NRA has argued that if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Almost like the claim that outlawing abortion will not stop abortion as there will still be abortions.
Can we agree that if the goal is to stop the destruction of human life this proposal would save millions of lives each year? After all as it has been often stated "we have to do something".
I read your new post on the school massacres Toilet Paper. This was your explanation for the killing phenomenon:
"Our modern “enlightened” culture of moral relativism has glorified violence. It has championed the killing of the unborn and called it “choice”. It has embraced the killing of our elderly and terminally ill family members and named it “mercy” and “compassion”.
So you are blaming the legalization of abortions for the surge of mass gun killings? WOW!!
The killing of our elderly?
People live longer now than ever before.
You have to many screws lose in your brain Toilet Paper.
And yes, I refuse to call you Thomas Paine.
Isn't it amazing that even in a thread about remembering George Harrison, Clucky managed to somehow whine about Obama. Unbelievable.
Mr. Mozart, I certainly don't condone and indeed would stand right by your side protesting if Trump were to "lock up his enemies" for no reason and without due process of the law, sir. Further, he could not ever do so of his own accord anyway. The law and the American public would not stand for it.
Further, I vehemently disagree with your assertion that the officers did as they should have done. First, most officers in most jurisdictions in the nation will often times also have some sort of long gun in their patrol vehicles too, whether a shotgun or rifle.
Regardless, the murderer used an AR-15; not a machine gun. It was not a fully automatic rifle. I am not sure that you understand the difference. (I am not trying to be snide or sarcastic here, but am simply saying that it is a semi-auto weapon, just like the Glock sidearms that many police officers carry. Further, that little thug probably would have crapped his pants, dropped his rifle, and ran if a couple of officers entered the building with their weapons drawn, let alone taking fire upon him.
(The AR-15 is not like the fully automatic rifles used in the military.)
Further, as I said, I don't want teachers to be armed if they don't wish to be or are unwilling to get training.
And I happen to know a lot of teachers personally that would feel much safer and better able to ensure the safety of their students, if they were allowed to have concealed carry on campus. Further, in case you missed it, peace officers are typically the only exception to the "gun free zone" laws for obvious reasons, sir.
Last, yes, I do remember when most public spaces were gun-free zones by default, if not by law. It is the decay of our culture, the glorification of violence, and the rise of the culture of death and the abdication of parenting that has created the violence. Please look at the actual crime statistics and you will see that over 90% of the mass shootings always occur in "gun free zones". Do you truly think that criminals will hand in their firearms if more gun laws are passed?
If you don't want to carry a firearm to protect yourself or your loved ones, I can respect and support that decision. I only wish that you could support my natural and constitutional right to self defense in reciprocation, Mr. Mozart.
Paul,... yeah... no hate in any of your comments. You start by acting like a juvenile and calling me names and then proceed to brand anything I say in sincerity as a possible solution as idiotic. You aren't interested in debate and discussion any more than a few of your cohorts are.
You mis-characterize either unintentionally or through ignorance, or perhaps by willful deceit, what I have said. Further you attribute things to me that I have not said. For instance, you assume I support Trump's budget. While there are a few aspects that are good, most of it is indeed bloated and only causes increased spending that we cannot afford. I do find it interesting how fiscal responsibility was never an issue for most leftists when Obama was president though.
Did you read the link I sent about Israel and how they responded to school shootings, sir?
They have had two school shooting attempts in the last 44 years after implementing their security system, and both times the perpetrator WAS shot and stopped by a good guy with a gun.
Further, I understand the universities such as Virginia Tech have their own police forces. That said, when a murderer starts shooting and seconds count, the police are only minutes away. That is why I advocate for concealed carry for those that wish to do so. The police aren't always right there to help, and as was the case in Florida, sometimes they are more concerned about "waiting for reinforcement" and saving their own sorry butts instead of protecting and serving the community.
Last, any responsible gun owner will always ensure his weapon is locked up in a secure safe when it is not upon his person. Does your fear of guns make you any safer by removing them from law-abiding citizens, sir? Or does it just make you feel safer?
"...now we are advocating shooting our political adversaries, J.G.?" ~~ T. Paine
Purely suggesting a method of increasing productivity and efficiency, Mr. Paine. Being a unregulated free-market advocate, I thought you'd totally approve. ;-)
"Even in jest, it is sick." ~~ T. Paine
Mr. Paine, am I acting "nasty" and "ungentlemanly" again?
Please, stop acting like a prissy little girl. It's unbecoming -- even for you.
"That kind of mind set is deeply disturbing." ~~ T. Paine
More disturbing than Trump declaring, to an equally maniacal world leader, that he has a bigger nuclear botton than he does?
LOL!!! Trump, the guy who got 5 deferrments for "bone spurs" during Vietnam, says he would have run in to save the children even without a weapon!
You gotta hand it to the Mango Martinet. When he slings bullshit he doesn't fool around.
"How about we make a deal? In order to save human lives let's repeal the 2nd Amendment and legal abortion?" ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
I have a better deal to propose. Let's just make all automatic and semiautomatic weapons, bumpstocks, high-capacity (and low capacity) clips, illegal. In exchange, all late-term abortions will also become illegal.
I'll have my office send the paperwork to you this afternoon for your signature.
Majormajor,
You have got to be kidding.
The NRA supported the Republican bill last year that gave gun rights back to mentally disturbed people.
It is not true that NRA history is supporting back ground checks. That was a change in their position after many school massacres. For decades the NRA fought against background checks. Recheck your history.
Abortion is not legal anytime for any reason. The Supreme Court set time limits on abortion through Roe/Wade.
It's funny to hear the pro gun crowd cry to leave the 2nd amendment alone when it is their side who last made the most serious change to the 2nd amendment.
For over 200 years the Supreme Court never found an individual right to own a gun, that was just traditional practice that was never objected to by legal action in the courts. It wasn't until the late 20th century in the Heller decision that the Supreme Court found that individuals had a right to own guns. The militia argument is a good one, except the Heller decision made that argument void. So it was the pro gun crowd who changed the centuries old definition of the second amendment, in their favor.
It seems the Supreme Court FOUND a right to own a gun that never really existed in the Constitution, just as anti-abortionists say the Supreme Court FOUND a privacy right to make abortions legal that supposedly never existed in the Constitution.
The law is what the Supreme Court says it is, not whatever you, or Toilet Paper's religious moral compass says it should be. God does not make our laws. We are a secular society who vote for representation to then vote on and pass laws, then the courts decide if they are Constitutional, or not and all of that is a political process, not a divine process. It wasn't by God's hand, or religious morality that we started as a slave nation, or committed genocide against the Native American and if you want to claim God's guidance and approval of our nations actions and existence, then your God sucks.
"Clucky managed to somehow whine about Obama. Unbelievable."
Mozart.
What in God's name are babbling about? How about some kind of proof to just once support your disillusion claims? I fear that in your case, the train has left the station with out you.
Paul, so you don't want to save million of human lives by repeal of the 2nd and banning abortions? Interesting position, thanks for your sharing.
BTW Paul,
Per Planned Parenthood the Federal Laws effecting abortion are the Hyde Amendment which
"withholds federal Medicaid funding from abortion nationwide, with extremely narrow exceptions."
And,
The federal abortion ban in the second trimester of pregnancy was upheld by the Supreme Court in 2007. States are currently not allowed to prohibit abortions that are necessary to preserve the life and health (both physical and mental) of the mother, regardless of stage of pregnancy.
BUT;
Forty-three states currently have laws prohibiting later term abortions, but many of these restrictions have been struck down by the courts, either because they don't contain any health provisions for the mother (or those they do contain aren't sufficient) or they don't allow a doctor to make the call on whether terminating the pregnancy is medically necessary.
In 19 states, the restrictions are based on the "viability" of the fetus, or its ability to live outside the womb (typically between 22 and 24 weeks of gestation). Twenty-two states impose prohibitions after a certain number of weeks (15 of them putting that limit at 22 weeks of pregnancy). Pregnancy is considered "term" between week 37 and week 42 of pregnancy and "full-term" from week 39 on.
So what are the limitations put into place by the Federal Govt that you would remove?
Clucky, no one buys your BS here. We also know all your alter egos. I know what auto and semi auto mean. I also know that for $30 and internet access you can convert to full auto (Hellfire device) and with a bit more money a higher quality "bump stock" is still legal. (See Las vegas shooter)
The police don't want more guns in schools, the teachers don't want them, the parents and certainly the STUDENTS don't want them. Only the GOP and the NRA want them because that would be a several BILLION dollar bump for the gun manufacturers.
WHO PAYS FOR THE GUNS, THE TRAINING, AND THE MEDICAL AND FUNERAL COSTS?
And what is it about conservatives, that whenever there is a PROBLEM, your solution is MORE OF IT?
"So you are blaming the legalization of abortions for the surge of mass gun killings? WOW!!
The killing of our elderly? People live longer now than ever before. You have to many screws lose in your brain Toilet Paper. And yes, I refuse to call you Thomas Paine." ~ Saul
I am not saying abortion or euthanasia alone are the cause, Paul. I am blaming multiple issues that all contribute to our devaluing life as a society. When we glorify violence, abort our babies, and "put our elderly out of their suffering", this is just a small part of how the mindset develops in some folks that thinks its okay to kill others because they are in pain. When we further abdicate our responsibilities as parents to guide, listen, teach morals, and instill a reverence for the gift of life in that of our children, it is not surprising that some of the more troubled kids will look to truly sinister solutions to "fix" their pain.
If one does not value life and is constantly immersed in the glorification of violence, is it really surprising that mass shootings would be the result, sir?
For the record, more and more states like Oregon which started the trend, have passed or are trying to pass "right to die" laws so that doctors, of all people, can prescribe a lethal dose of "medicine" to certain folks that no longer wish to live. It is ghoulish to think that a doctor who's hippocratic oath prohibits him from doing harm is the dispenser of death today. Yeah, we have no respect for life anymore.
Hell, one could start out as being a normal person commenting on "The Rant" and over time develop into a hateful and belligerent ass that attacks anyone that has the temerity to disagree, and then move to calling for the killing of conservatives. What is next for a person like that? Does he put away his glitter, bong, and burned draft card and actually go out to buy the very weapon he claims to despise just to rid the world of conservatives with his own AR-15?
Of course I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but that is precisely how a few of the less emotionally mature among us in society develop into mass killers.
And I am not surprised by your insistence on still calling names. Frankly is it very illustrative of what I am talking about by some folks trying to marginalize, demonize, and ridicule others with whom they disagree. Do you really think acting like that makes society better, Paul? Does it make you feel better to do so?
"Mr. Paine, am I acting 'nasty' and 'ungentlemanly' again? Please, stop acting like a prissy little girl. It's unbecoming -- even for you." ~ J.G.
lol. You are truly a piece of work. It is now "prissy", according to your Funk & Wagnells definition, to call someone out for suggesting the killing of those with whom one disagrees as being flat out evil and wrong?
What the hell has happened to you, J.G., to cause you to act like this? It is truly sad.
Mr. Paine,,
JG IS truly sad.
"For over 200 years the Supreme Court never found an individual right to own a gun, that was just traditional practice that was never objected to by legal action in the courts. It wasn't until the late 20th century in the Heller decision that the Supreme Court found that individuals had a right to own guns. The militia argument is a good one, except the Heller decision made that argument void. So it was the pro gun crowd who changed the centuries old definition of the second amendment, in their favor." ~ Paul
Respectfully, you have some facts wrong Paul. The reason that "traditional practice" was that owning firearms was an individual right is because that is what both the founders and the constitution intended. The Heller decision simply clarified that right since it was disputed by anti-gun advocates.
Think about this, sir: The Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments to the constitution) are all specifically articulating our individual rights of the people and/or states. Why would the federal government place such a "government duty/right" into a list of otherwise individual rights meant for the people? If this was a right that was intended to be restricted "to the government", they would have put this in the body of the constitution and not in the Bill of Rights for We The People.
Further, look at the context of nearly all of the founders' correspondence and words. They fully intended the ownership of arms to be an individual right. First, it was a protection against some native Americans, various lawlessness, but most importantly to ensure the liberty of the people against a potential tyrannical government. They already escaped the tyranny of King George, and did not want to establish a new government that could become corrupt and deny liberty to Americans again.
Further, militias in that time were loose confederations of everyday citizens banding together for the protection of their communities, cities, or states as was needed. Where the militia needed to be regulated to ensure its proper use, the aspect of having firearms was not the point needing regulation, if you will reread the actual text of the amendment, sir.
Abortion and euthanasia have nothing to do with mass murder by weapons of war, of course. That is merely the venting of resentments on these issues.
We shouldn’t be surprised when “glorification of violence” is invoked by those who openly supported the mass killings of human beings in Iraq, along with the certain wasted deaths of thousands of Americans. We shouldn’t be surprised that weapons designed to kill in combat are now toys for gun nuts and tough guy wannabes. They are just the “tool” for paranoids and mass murderers. Are these weapons of war “essentials of freedom”, or more glorification of violence? Look at the consequences and tell me.
How about our president gloating about being able to shoot someone and still be loved by his cult? Yeah, let’s put that NRA stooge in charge and watch the reverence for life bloom across the land. Oops, it didn’t. Hate groups are on the rise and the Nazis and Klan are emboldened to march. Better blame abortion for the lack of reverence for life, eh? Right.
The fact is that the more military style weapons there are in the country, the more deaths will be from military style weapons. Knowing this fact and still shilling for more such weapons to flood the public show reverence for life, how?
It’s the “gun culture”, stupid.
The ONLY way to limit the guns of war in the hands of killers would have been to NEVER allow them to be sold to civilians in the first place. Once in circulation, no laws or rules will keep them all out of the wrong hands. Period. The NRA knows this. They don’t care.
The NRA is now in the blood money business. I’d say the argument can be made that giving them money shows an appalling lack of reverence for life. The body count tells us this is true. They really don’t care how many are killed, as long as they have their precious toys of death.
The fewer AR15s sold, the fewer will die from them. Even Reagan understood this.
Shut. Down. The. Pump.
T. Pain, what happened to JG? The same thing that's happening to 80% of the nation and 99% of the free world. We are seeing the United States sold out to big money here and Russia in the big picture. You know it, so don't try saying otherwise.
You can't defend trump anymore, you just CAN'T. It's beyond ridiculous.
Oh, and T. Pain as far as legal suicide, if you are terminally ill and in constant pain, WHY NOT DIE WITH SOME DIGNITY? Why is it OK to put down a horse with a broken leg or a sick or injured pet "so they won't suffer", but Grandma has to lie like a radish in a hospital while their family goes into severe debt.
But there it is isn't it? MONEY.
BTW, there has been abortion since before "Biblical" times. Even GOD says life begins "at first breath" and unless the thing has GILLS...
I Saw someone post one day on Facebook, "If abortion is MURDER, that means miscarriage is INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER, subject to criminal investigation. I would ask if you want your women going through that but we see how conservatives think of women, so we know the answer.
Instead of WHINING about abortion, how about preventing the NEED? access to birth control (which conservatives don't want covered by insurance) and REAL sex education, starting at age 12 when the curiosity and hormones are beginning to kick in? "abstinence only" is a JOKE.
And if you want more "civilized" discourse, grow some common sense.
"abstinence only" is a JOKE, yet it works every time it's tried.
"What is next for a person like that? Does he put away his glitter, bong, and burned draft card and actually go out to buy the very weapon he claims to despise just to rid the world of conservatives with his own AR-15?" T. Paine
Ya' never know, Mr. Paine. If I were you I'd tread lightly. ;-)
"I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but that is precisely how a few of the less emotionally mature among us in society develop into mass killers." ~~ T. Paine
Who would know better than you, Mr. Paine?! LOL Is that what you did between losing yourself in the bottom of a whiskey bottle every night?
Or, are you finally speaking candidly and realistically about your own president. ;-) Good for you!
It is now 'prissy'...to call someone out for suggesting the killing of those with whom one disagrees as being flat out evil and wrong? ~~ T. Paine
Well, of course. It also is imperative that one knows the difference between someone who actually called for the elimination of their enemies, and just suggested a more efficient method if one actually chose to do so. ;-)
Obviously, you don't. (Why is it that reading comprehension challenges seem to be pandemic among the conservative crowd?)
Mr. Mozart, do I really need to spell out the difference between a horse or pet and a human life to you, sir? Is it really only all about money in your estimation? Since grandma is going to eventually die anyway, shouldn't we simply hasten that along to save us some money and the hassle of having to care for her? What if grandma is relatively healthy but has arthritis and is not very ambulatory? Who then next makes the decision that this isn't a very good quality of life for her and she would be better off dead? What if a person is blind or has Down's Syndrome? What if someone is simply depressed because President Trump got re-elected and wants to end their life accordingly? Where does it end, sir?
You are right. It is about money. ...And it is about convenience for those that don't want to be burdened with a sick loved one. Wouldn't compassionate care and making sure our loved ones are as comfortable as possible be the most truly loving sacrifice we could make on their behalf?
It is because we have embraced a culture of death and rejected God's morals and then we act surprised when our kids act out in violence against others accordingly.
Next, human life unarguably and scientifically begins at conception. Unarguably and scientifically! At that moment a separate being with its own unique DNA begins to grow with all of the potential for greatness or evil that all of us posses. How many Einsteins, Newtons, Salks, Michelagelos, or Mozarts have we killed of the 60 million babies aborted in the womb since Roe v. Wade, sir? We may have killed off the very child that would discover the cure for cancer or aids or perhaps found a way to reverse global warming.
Further, God tells the prophet Jeremiah, ""Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you..." Jeremiah 1:5
I know not everyone believes as I do, and such is their right, but I believe that life is a gift by our Creator. A destruction of a life therefore is a grave sin against our Creator. A miscarriage is a horrible and emotionally painful thing, but in most circumstances it is not through the intent or cause of the mother. These are not sins accordingly... so I believe and am taught through Christ's own church.
So instead of my "whining about abortion" and your whining about firearms, how about we start finding common ground and start acting decent towards each other to find real solutions instead of just resorting to politics? Maybe we can restore our culture to one of mutual respect in our own little worlds instead of even jokingly calling for the killing of those with whom we disagree.
Mr. Degan, one wonders at what point your comment moderation would ever kick in if even that evil comment was allowed, sir. I mean, how is that a whole lot different than a statement by Nicholas Cruz that he wanted to be "a professional school shooter"?
The fact that barely anyone else thinks that statement from Jefferson's Guardian was WAY over the line on this blog is interesting and rather telling.
"Just the facts" why don't you just use ONE name? We know who you are Clucky. But way to post NOTHING, again.
BTW, That court that upheld the abortion restrictions was the same one that gave us "citizens United" so not much credibility there.
"What the hell has happened to you, J.G., to cause you to act like this? It is truly sad." ~~ T. Paine
and...
"JG IS truly sad." ~~ Just the Facts! (aka, Chuck)
I see both of you are mimicking your president's fourth-grade vocabulary level.
Hmm...maybe you're not really mimicking at all. I realize Chuck probably never made it past eighth-grade, but Mr. Paine -- I'd expect better from you!
I'm not acting any differently, Mr. Paine, only expressing my displeasure with your unequivocal support of the racist war-mongering xenophobic, and proud woman-molesting pervert, currently occupying the White House. But since he's a Republican, you bite your tongue and support his racism and other abnormalities anyway. Once again, I expect better from you.
However, Chuck, I actually expect this from you! You're a lost cause.
Mozart,
So you wont support ending of legal abortion and the repeal of the 2nd in order to save million of human lives?
"Ya' never know, Mr. Paine. If I were you I'd tread lightly." ~ JG
Come at me, Bro! ;)
"It also is imperative that one knows the difference between someone who actually called for the elimination of their enemies, and just suggested a more efficient method if one actually chose to do so. ;-) Obviously, you don't. (Why is it that reading comprehension challenges seem to be pandemic among the conservative crowd?)" ~ JG
That is a distinction without much of a difference. If I had made such a "suggestion" you would be rightly outraged at the thought and some leftists would point to that as "another sign" of my being a fascist and authoritarian. Frankly, if I had made such a disgusting suggestion, they would actually have some merit to the claim for once. The fact that you think such a thing is a joke or amusing speaks volumes as to the quality of your character.
As for my reading comprehension, writing acumen, and vocabulary usage, I am quite certain I could run circles around you with ease and alacrity.
The fact that you are "not acting any differently" because of my "unequivocal support" of President Trump seems to strongly suggest to me that you are the one with the reading comprehension issue as I have repeatedly written about my scorn for Trump's moral character regarding his racism and boorish sexual exploits and some of his political policies, even on Tom's blog.
The fact that I have given him credit where it is due is what truly ticks you off, isn't it? It's all or nothing for you. Hate all of Trump or I will hate you, right? Hell, I even gave credit to that ass-hat Obama on the few rare occasions where he actually acted presidential and did abide by the Constitution. Too bad that your militant leftist ideology inhibits you to actually acknowledge anything good when it comes from a political adversary.
Clucky, abortion has nothing to do with guns. Can you NEVER stay on subject?
But since you brought it up, I'll start caring about the UNBORN as soon as you start caring about the ALREADY BORN. You are against real sex ed and birth control. You are against paying a fair living wage. You are against any help for the poor. You are against everything that PREVENTS abortions. You are against common sense gun laws. So clearly it's not about human life, it's about control of women. We get it. We SEE you.
Take your hypocrisy and love of zygotes elsewhere. We have serious problems to solve.
"Mozart, [s]o you wont support ending of legal abortion and the repeal of the 2nd in order to save million of human lives?" ~~ Just the Facts! (aka, Chuck)
So, Chuck, you're not agreeable to my counter-proposal (at 7:40 AM)? I'm hurt! ;-)
By the way, Mozart's response to you, at 3:11 PM, is truthful and obviously hits the nail on the head.
His are the true "just the facts!"
Mozart,
The subject is saving human lives, try to expand your understanding.
Fact is if you really wanted to save human life you would agree with me on banning abortion, and repeal of the 2nd. That you can't or won't only exposes the truth that like all leftist it's only about politics, not saving lives.
"That you can't or won't [agree with me] only exposes the truth that like all leftist[s] it's only about politics, not saving lives." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
No, you're wrong on both counts. It's about constitutional and human rights. It's about democracy -- something conservatives don't understand.
Proof-positive is the demagogue you've selected to occupy the White House.
Clucky, even your precious Bible doesn't consider the unborn a human life, but we can all agree that schoolchildren are, right? You want to make abortion MURDER fine, but that makes miscarriage INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER< subject to CRIMINAL investigation. Is that what you want for our mothers, daughters, sisters? You have said nothing about the things that CAUSE most women to seek abortions, those being economic hardship, teenage mistakes, RAPE, etc. You fight against covering female birth control on insurance policies and refuse to allow ANY credible sex education in schools. You persecute poor families, calling them "takers". But try to implement some intelligent family planning, and your fucking religious fruitloops go through the roof. You are a hypocrite on both levels. You deflect to abortion because you have no credible argument concerning guns, but you don't REALLY want to do anything about abortion but make it a felony, as if THAT made it go away before 1973.
You support the GOP war machine
You don't care if poor families go hungry
You don't care if poor children get sick.
Saving human lives, Gracie?
You disgust me.
You are fooling NO ONE.
Oh, and Clucky...
If you thing arming teachers is about saving humane lives, than you are sicker than anyone here already thinks you are.
20 million more guns sold. Wayne La Pierre will get a new house in the Bahamas. No guns allowed in the compound of course, other than his "personal security".
jG, you stalking me again?
Mozart, so it's not about saving lives is it, it's about politics. Thanks for confirming the obvious.
“Imagine if Barack Obama had said that,” Tucker Carlson (FOXR) said. “Just ignore due process and start confiscating guns.”
Imagine if Obama had said ANYTHING like what their Orange Messiah Trump says, and gets away with every time.
IOKIYAR, is the 'One True Law" of the land, after all.
This is way more than hypocrisy, folks. It is evil incarnate. It is a fanatic cult of hate, bigotry, racism, and ignorance. Thank you Republican Party and American Con-servatives.
As Jeff Daniels told Stephen Colbert, “What they did to get him in office....We lost, as a country, we lost respect, decency, civilized behavior, integrity, class, accountability, responsibility. He’s got none of that.”
Con-servatism and it's vile spawn Trumpism are destroying what's left of our representative democratic republic.
Period.
Summing up, let's work to ban all automatic/semi-automatic weapons, bumpstocks, high-capacity magazines/clips, and create very strict regulations/restrictions on who, when, how and why weapons are bought.
Let's make buying a gun at least as time-consuming, expensive, and complicated as taking out a standard mortgage.
Yeah, lets make buying a gun at least as time-consuming, expensive, and complicated as having an abortion. After all not ever gun bought kills a human, but every abortion does.
Clucky, It's apolitical issue and we are dealing with politicians, so yeah, it's KINDA about politics.
But we want to save lives, and you want to sell guns. When children are being riddled with bullets, MORE bullets isn't the answer.
The police don't want it, the schools don't want it, the teachers don't want it, the parents don't want it, and as has been made obvious to everyone by now the STUDENTS don't want it.
But somehow the guy putting on a show trashing his party for being "terrified of the NRA" is suggesting ARMING teachers, which means somewhere near 20 MILLION more guns. Cha-CHING! for the gun manufacturers, and these guys will look silly on TV any day of the week for the bonus checks they will get for passing THAT law.
But who PAYS for the guns? The training? The YOOOGE "bonuses" he promised?
And didn't you LOVE the "screw due process, we are taking the guns" from a REPUBLICAN President?
Wow.
"After all not ever[y] gun bought kills a human, but every abortion does." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
That's a false analogy, but of course you already know this. Chuck, the more appropriate equivalency would be:
"After all not every gun bought kills a human, and neither does every pregnancy result in an abortion."
jG
You're stalking me again. What is the reason we "all need work to ban all automatic/semi-automatic weapons, bumpstocks, high-capacity magazines/clips, and create very strict regulations/restrictions on who, when, how and why weapons are bought"?
To stop guns from killing people, correct?
Yet we all know that the making of or owning of everything you listed does not result in the killing of a human. But we do know that every abortion results in the killing of a human.
Sorry this went right over your head, again.
P.S.
Automatic weapons, IE; machine guns are already banned. But you already knew that.
"we want to save lives" LIE
"you want to sell guns" LIE
Tom, if you happen to be in D.C. on Match 24th, please join me to help support these wonderful young Americans who will be protesting for gun control in the March for Our Lives rally.
It seems their request for a permit was denied by the Parks Department to use the Mall due to a "talent show" previously permitted, so right now it looks like the venue will be Pennsylvania Avenue instead. Even better, in my mind, since it will undoubtedly impede traffic flow into and out of Trump International.
We'll probably stop by the White House, although the demagogue-in-residence will undoubtedly be wasting taxpayer money, and hiding out, on one of his many weekend trips to Mar-a-Lago.
Speaking of the demagogue, did you see his latest treasonous words while entertaining his billionaire cronies this weekend in Florida? The dickhead is obviously enamored with the Chinese president's recent consolidation of power and would like to do the same. Obtained from CNN:
"In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.
'He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great,' Trump said. 'And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day.'"
He should be tried for high crimes and misdemeanors, on this statement alone. Of course the asshole isn't a fan of due process, so maybe a rope over the branch of a big strong Oak would be more his style?
"You're stalking me again." ~~ Majormajor (Chuck)
Not at all, Chuck. As a matter of fact, I was visiting and commenting on this blog years before you started trolling here.
"Yet we all know that the making of or owning of everything you listed does not result in the killing of a human." ~~ "Chuck"
You're totally correct, Chuck. By the same token, not every conception and resultant pregnancy results in an abortion. I'm bewildered why you can't wrap your mind around this fact and see the connection.
Additionally, there have never been any deaths caused by cannabis ... and it never causes any harm to others by those using it.
It's amazing that it is illegal, isn't it Chuck?
Clucky, we all know that "Just the facts", "Michael Stivic" and "Major Major" are all you. Stop trying to convince us otherwise.
Oh, and yes, gun SALES are the key motivation for the GOP's worship of the NRA, and yes, we Liberals DO want to save lives.
If automatic weapons are ILLEGAL, why is it legal to manufacture and sell devices to make semi auto-s FULLY auto? Whatever happened to "illegal is illegal"? Does that only apply to BROWN people?
And why is an ACCIDENTAL shooting by an "illegal" immigrant an OUTRAGE, but 17 children deliberately killed is "a mental health issue"? Is it because the mass shooters are all WHITE?
Mr. Mozart, I agree that most liberals do indeed want to save lives. I think there are some militant leftists though that are sadly less concerned about that and would like to see the eradication of their enemies though. I wish that the good liberal folks that did want to save lives also understood the biological facts of when human life begins and wanted to save pre-born lives as well.
Further, I agree with you that kits and devices sold to make semi-auto weapons into fully auto weapons should also be illegal and prosecuted as such. Illegal is indeed illegal. Why you are making this a matter of race is irrelevant. If race were the issue, you would be vehemently against Planned Parenthood as its racist beginnings are being carried out today by the shear percentage of black pregnancies they abort.
An "accidental" shooting by an ILLEGAL immigrant is an outrage and so is the deliberate killing of 17 other people by a school shooter, regardless of whether he was mentally ill or not. Further, the fact that, once again, our big government policies appear to have played a role in allowing this sick shooter to remain free and legally obtain guns despite being an obvious threat is a direct result of the government's "Promise Program". I know it is easier to blame the gun, NRA, and Trump rather than the failed law enforcement systems and government programs encouraging the police not to arrest Cruz any of the 39 times they visited him for violent behavior. If any of those visits resulted in arrests, then perhaps the NICS system would have been updated and not allowed him to thus buy a firearm. And yet somehow this is Trump's fault.
It is interesting that with all of the mass shootings under Obama's tenure that none of those were characterized as his fault by the "unbiased" mainstream media.
It would be so much better is we could quit fixing the blame and instead fix the problem. And that doesn't mean fix the symptoms. When we finally parent our kids, stop glorifying violence, and quit worshiping this culture of death in our society, perhaps then we can prevent the moral compasses of these "shooters" from becoming broken in the first place and thus have some semblance of the importance of life instead of the desire to destroy it instilled in them, sir.
"ACCIDENTAL shooting by an "illegal" immigrant" just like OJ didn't murder his wife.
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