Monday, July 13, 2015

Jeb! Jeb Who?

"My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it, is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see....It means that people need to work longer hours and, through their productivity, gain more income for their families. That’s the only way we’re going to get out of this rut that we’re in.”
John E. "Jeb" Bush
You see? The problem has not-a-thing to do with the fact that regular working people aren't getting paid a living wage. The problem is that the people need to put in longer hours! The Bush Policy: Let 'em eat cake. And this clown wants to be your president! Isn't life wonderful?

This has got to be one for the ages. So desperate is Jeb Bush to distance himself from the catastrophic administration of his brother, the guy is too embarrassed to place his last name on his campaign poster. He wants us to forget that nasty little fact in his biography. What candidate - of either party - has had to resort to this kind of pathos? I don't recall, either in 1968 or 1972, any Nixon campaign ads baring the name, "DICK!". Of course, in 1972 Nixon campaigned as "The President". By the time he sought re-election, a lot of Americans were fairly uncomfortable having him as their chief-executive; I mean, let's face it, the Trickster was kinda creepy, don'cha think? So I guess there is a bit of precedent here.

What amazes me - more than anything - is how another member of this incompetent, corrupt and disgusting family would believe that it is now "my turn". Just pondering this makes the needle on my arrogance meter crack in two. When one considers too many of his campaign advisers are the neo-conservative crackpots who littered Dubya's presidency, it's enough to give someone paying even scant attention the dry heaves. I refer to the folks who made up the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). You don't hear much about them anymore, but in the few years before George seized power, they were all over the airwaves and in print, literally advocating the takeover of the planet. Many of them, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, ended up running the Bush II White House and dictating their foreign policy. Remember how nicely that worked out? Jeb Bush, by the way, was also part of the PNAC crowd - something he's not too comfortable about mentioning these days.

The result was the stupidest military blunder (not to mention the longest and costliest war in American history). Jebbie has said, more than once, that in matters of Middle Eastern affairs, his half-witted older brother is his most trusted source of advice. Seriously, folks: A third Bush administration in a generation is not a particularly dandy idea. I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. Be careful what you wish for, ya dig?

Teddy Boy
Of course, I'm really not at all alarmed at the spectacle of a Bush III candidacy. I'm absolute certain that he is not going to be the next president of the United States; nor do I believe he's going to be elected in 2020, 2024, 2028, 2032 - not ever. It's not in the cards, it's not in the stars. It's not on anybody's calendar - yours or mine. Let me be as clear as possible: There will never be a President Jeb Bush. He might not even get the nomination because - wait for it - HE'S TOO LIBERAL!!! That's right Mr. and Mrs America and all the ships at sea: John E. "Jeb" Bush is too much of a screaming lefty for the nitwits who long ago hijacked the GOP. And the screamingly funny thing is that the Tea Party types are almost certain to mount a third party uprising should that vague possibility miraculously come to pass. Ted Cruz is waiting in the wings, Jeb. Watch your ass, dude!

On the other hand. should Jebbie somehow manage to pull this off (and again: THAT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN) his term of office should prove to be quite amusing - much in the same way George's administration was quite amusing. Comedy is the natural bedfellow of incompetence. The Bush boys are always generous with those unintentional giggles they give out like candy canes at Christmastime.  Another Bush administration would be the ultimate win-win for someone like me. The rest of you, not-so-much.

Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber
It's an easy call to predict that whatever transpires, 2016 is going to be the campaign to end all campaigns, As gut-bustingly weird as 2012 and 2008 were in terms of sheer insanity, next year is going to be the caking on the ice. It's such a strange thing when you think about it. The dumbing down of America has been going on now for almost thirty-five years now. The quality of the candidates for the highest office in the land is proof of how effective that process has been. Much as I disliked Ronald Reagan and everything he stood for during the campaign of 1980, I had to admit that the man at least had a smidgeon of gravitas. That type of candidate is extinct, at least with respect to the GOP. Thirty-five years ago neither of the Brothers Bush would have been taken seriously by most people with an IQ above sixty. What a long, strange trip downward it's been, baby!

And the Democrats? They're not too far behind. They could do a lot better than Hillary Clinton. Although far and away the preferable choice when compared to anything the Republicans are liable to regurgitate, I have a funny feeling that she's not going to be the reincarnation of Franklin D. Roosevelt we on the left have been praying for since 1945. The ONLY candidate who is saying the things that the American people need to hear is Bernie Sanders, and he doesn't stand a chance.

Gosh, we sure do live in strange times.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

SUGGESTED READING:

The Bush quote at the top of this piece was lifted from a recent column by Paul Krugman in the New York Times. It's a good piece (all of Krugman's stuff is excellent) and is highly recommended on this end. Here is a link to read it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/opinion/paul-krugman-the-laziness-dogma.html?_r=0

If you're looking for Mr. Paul, you can find him on the mountaintop.

STILL MORE SUGGESTED READING:

Cronkite
by Douglas Brinkley

This is a pretty good biography - although not a great one. Brinkley gets a few things wrong, as in when he claims that Cronkite was the first American journalist to interview the Beatles. He never interviewed them. Still, it was as readable as any bio I think I've ever read. Also, he doesn't treat his subject with complete reverence, but portrays him warts and all. Fortunately, Walter Cronkite's warts were few. He was a good man - and one of the great broadcast journalists of the twentieth century. I miss Uncle Walter.


164 Comments:

At 4:10 PM, Blogger GreatAuntieHkat said...

I agree, Jeb is just another twig on that brush trimming pile that his big brother loved to work on. We may be able to enjoy a few good cartoons re His Jebness! Cruz, on the other hand, is scary. Actually, he's not as scary as the guys who--even for a moment--can visualize him as President. And those guys have bags of money, which creates the question: does lots of money make a person stupid?

 
At 4:35 PM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

GreatAuntieHkat: "...the question: does lots of money make a person stupid?"

No...but voting for either wing of the "Corporatist Party" certainly does.

 
At 4:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Donald Trump, the guy leading the GOP national polls thinks we should have invaded Mexico, while Hillary thinks we should grow the middle class.

 
At 7:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Progress we can believe in

While outfits like the Immigration Policy Center say Americans ought to stop believing their lying eyes and understand that the more illegal immigrants stream across the border, the more crime rates fall, the reality is much darker.

On Thursday, Michigan police arrested a Mexican illegal alien, 23-year-old Aurelio Hernandez-Gomez, after finding him with a 13-year-old Florida girl who had last been seen two days before her ordeal.

Cops acted on a tip that led them to a Hartford home where Hernandez-Gomez hid the girl while assaulting her.

Michigan authorities charged Hernandez-Gomez with one count of third-degree criminal sexual conduct, meaning they believe he raped or otherwise penetrated the girl after incapacitating her or otherwise rendering her helpless. They have not released further details, such as whether or not the victim was related to the alien suspect. Hernandez-Gomez is being held on $150,000 bond in a Paw Paw Michigan jail and will be back in court on Wednesday.

 
At 7:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thinks we should have invaded Mexico,

Where did Trump say that?
What are Clinton's plan to grow the middle class? More govt spending, we already spend $1.17 for ever dollar the govt takes in. Tax the people who already pay the majority of the personal income taxes?

Sophistry, nothing but liberal sophistry

 
At 8:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

July 11, 2015 Los Angeles

"During a speech to Hollywood conservative group Friends of Abe last night, the GOP presidential candidate said Iraq was a needed buffer against a hostile Iran and that it was wrong for the United States to have invaded Saddam Hussein's fiefdom.

"Instead," Trump told the crowd, “we should have invaded Mexico."

 
At 8:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm really pissed. Some commie marxist liberal progressive just tweeted some anti-Trump stuff. Here's what he said:

Mexican immigrants, as with all immigrants, have much lower crime rates than native born. Eg El Paso safest city in U.S. Trump wrong.

Who the hell does this commie think he is, criticizing Trump. Have you heard of him? His name is Rupert Murdoch.

Must be some libtard.

 
At 9:28 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Who is the Boy Troll quoting now? Chuck Grassley?

You know the little liar didn't come up with those spun figures himself.

Tax the richest people and corporations 10% more than right now, along with ending corporate welfare and cutting the Pentagon budget in HALF, and make a BIG dent in our debt.

Guess what? The rich will STILL be rich and we could still fight TWO simultaneous world wars.

But NOOOOO...we have to take food from the hungry and cut benefits to combat vets, so that the richest people can have that third yacht.

 
At 9:33 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Hey ANonymous (Boy Troll)
Apparantly an illegal Mexican killed 4 people while participating in an "illegal drag race" (we know he was running drugs for a child porn ring)

The clever bastard was even using a false name "jimmy Peirce II" to confuse authorities into thinking he was white.

But they were too smart, they knew, as we all do, that White people never commit crimes.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/killed-apparent-drag-racing-wreck-north-carolina-32410751

 
At 7:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Iranian Deal

Oil prices plunge following confirmation of #IranDeal

Poor Netanyahu, the world has taken away his most beloved toy – the Iranian bomb.

My heart goes out to Benjamin Netanyahu. With one cold, cruel stroke of the pen, the rulers of the world have taken away his most beloved toy – the apple of his eye and the joy of his heart, the rock of his existence and the source of his strength, and above all, the rock of his refuge and safe haven.

Haaretz (Israel's oldest daily newspaper)


Blessed are the peacemakers, blessed the peacekeepers.

 
At 7:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who's invading who?

Is Mexico sending us there brightest, their best?

The number of unaccompanied alien children continue to illegally cross the U.S.-Mexico border as 127 were apprehended per day doing so during the month of June, according to the most recent data from U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

The latest apprehension report from CBP shows that 26,685 unaccompanied minors have been apprehended at the Southwest U.S. border so far in FY2015, which began on Oct. 1. Of those, all but 409 were from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico.

By the end of May the total number of apprehended UACs was 22,869, meaning another 3,816 children were caught after crossing the border during the month of June.

Maricopa County, AZ Sheriff Joe Arpaio (R) said that out of the 5,000 people turned over the Immigrants and Customs Enforcement out of his jails, “2,000 have been coming back” on Monday’s “Your World with Neil Cavuto” on the Fox News Channel.

Arpaio, who in October 2014 said that 36% out of “4,000 people in our jails for state crimes in the last eight months” keep coming back, stated, “I have ICE agents in our jail. We check everybody that comes in, then detainers are placed for those here illegally on state charges, turn them over to ICE, and guess what? Out of 5,000, 2,000 have been coming back to my jails, all serious types of crime. One guy came back 20 times. So, evidently they keep crossing the border, or the ICE is letting them out on the streets. That’s another problem.” He added that he would support cutting off federal funding to sanctuary cities.

 
At 10:58 AM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Yeah, what fool would run a campaign with only their first name as their logo? (Oh, except for Hillary too.) While I absolutely agree with you, Tom, that another Bush absolutely should not occupy the White House, the same should be said for another Clinton. Hillary’s corruption and lack of scruples may even surpass Obama’s.

“What amazes me - more than anything - is how another member of this incompetent, corrupt and disgusting family would believe that it is now ‘my turn’.” Again, I agree, and even more so as it relates to Hillary.

The funny thing is that even though George W. Bush rallied the country for the gulf war you despise, Hillary and many Democrats voted to give Bush the congressional authorization to do so. She was for it before she was against it too!

I agree that Bush will likely not be president, and I greatly fear that with the entitlement mentality the left has created in this country, Hillary will indeed continue the progressive dynasty of anti-Constitutional corruption we have witnessed under Lord Obama.

Jeb is too left-leaning to return America to a constitutional republic under law. Besides, the GOP should know better than to run a progressive “moderate” Rino as their nominee. Look how well that has worked with Dole, McCain, and Romney in past elections. We need a true contest of ideas between the failed and corrupt policies of the left as will likely be poorly articulated by candidate Hillary and a true conservative rule-of-law candidate for the Republicans. There are several folks that could be that candidate, but it sure as hell is not Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, or Jeb Bush.

 
At 11:21 AM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Mozart, instead of taxing corporations another 10% more, how about we simply close all of the tax loopholes and eliminate corporate welfare like you suggested?

As for cutting the Pentagon’s budget, that is an exceptionally bad idea. This is particularly so since our idiot in chief just accepted a horrible deal with our adversary of Iran. Evidently Obama is more concerned with his narcissistic foreign policy legacy then he is with our nation’s safety, the safety of our ally Israel, and stability in the Middle East. All this fool has done with his “peace in our time” deal is to ensure that Iran will get nuclear weapons quicker, have sanctions permanently removed, and start an arms race in the Middle East as Saudi Arabia and other nations seek to acquire nukes to offset Iran’s nukes.

I know… I know… “This is a wonderful deal and will prevent Iran from having nukes.” Bull Crap!!! It makes it where Iran can continue to work covertly with sanctions removed. Obama is an idiot. He sets up an unenforceable deal with Iran, who just this week had government-approved demonstrations of people shouting, “Death to America!” and “Death to Israel!”
No, cutting the Pentagon budget is not what we need to be doing. We need to cut waste in DoD spending, absolutely. And we need to cut all of the damned leftist social engineering and experimentation with the military, as that hurts morale and unit cohesiveness.

It doesn’t matter really. We have already gone past the tipping point. We have far more takers in our country with the entitlement mentality than we do producers. Because of that, we will have another socialist entitlement president succeeding the Obama regime. God bless America! Oh wait… “God” is offensive to many on the left. Let’s try “Obama bless America!” since he seems to be the left’s messiah anyway.

After re-reading this comment, I apologize for the tone, but I am truly scared for the safety of our country and the abject foolishness in which our government is partaking yet again.

 
At 12:43 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Well T Paine, we can do those things AS WELL. As for the Pentagon budget, do we REALLY need Trillion dollar planes that won't fly? Acres of tanks in the Cali desert that will NEVER be used? ANother stupid Aircraft carrier?

And Obama's deal is fantastic. Iran does not want war with the USA. They have never attacked the USA. Why WOULDN'T they want a bomb, given our policy in the middle east? Tell me, WHEN HAS THE USA EVER INVADED A NATION WITH NUKES? Never. N. Korea, China, Russia, Pakistan, ALL bigger threats than Iraq, Iran, Libya...but we NEVER invade. WHY? You know why.

Why is war a better solution than PEACE? Oh yeah...PROFITS for your masters. Are YOU going to fight in the next war?

Oh and Gays in the military has had no effect on "cohesiveness". Only Fox pundits say it does, and none of them have ever served.

Go ahead and be scared. The only threat from Obama's deal is to your stock portfolio if you are invested in war profiteers.

"Social entitlement". Have you ever looked up the word "Entitlement"? Here's betting you never have, same with "Socialism".

I'm so happy your kind is growing old and dying off.

 
At 1:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

'I'm so happy your kind is growing old and dying off."
Mozart 1220

What compassion, what diversity of views, what concern for those who are older than himself, what tolerance, what a typical hate filled Mozart wacko liberal comment.

He is the poster child for the real views today's today's "liberal". And not the sharpest pencil in the box to boot, right James Hansen?

 
At 2:12 PM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

T. Paine....

I'm with you on the Hillary thing. s I stated in the piece, the Dems could do a Hell of a lot better than her.

Cheers!

 
At 3:05 PM, Anonymous Modusoperandi said...

T. Paine ”As for cutting the Pentagon’s budget, that is an exceptionally bad idea. This is particularly so since our idiot in chief just accepted a horrible deal with our adversary of Iran. Evidently Obama is more concerned with his narcissistic foreign policy legacy then he is with our nation’s safety, the safety of our ally Israel, and stability in the Middle East. All this fool has done with his “peace in our time” deal is to ensure that Iran will get nuclear weapons quicker, have sanctions permanently removed, and start an arms race in the Middle East as Saudi Arabia and other nations seek to acquire nukes to offset Iran’s nukes.”
T. Paine’s got a point. This “having a treaty with Iran, including destruction of centrifuges and materials, and inspections in exchange for removing sanctions that come back if they fail to hold up their end of the treaty” is absurd. What we should do is punish them no matter what they do, with no treaty, no discussion, no framework, no IAEA inspections or monitoring and, indeed, no real way of knowing what they are doing, whether or not what they are doing has anything to do with the Bomb.
In short, I think we can all agree that the safest path is to hit them with a stick and close our eyes.

 
At 3:29 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Mozart, I don’t know about trillion dollar non-flying planes or acres of tanks, but I do know that the United States has long been the one that has kept most of the world somewhat safe and relatively free. Those “stupid aircraft carriers” allow us to maintain open and unfettered sea lanes for the world’s commerce. They allow us to project power and protect our national interests and support our allies without having to mobilize far greater numbers of troops and planes onto foreign soil. Those aircraft carriers and their supporting task forces are arguably our most vital weapon for war and peace in our arsenal.

The fact that you think Obama’s deal is fantastic only tells me that you are very ignorant of Iran, the Middle East, and the details of this deal, or you are such a hyper-partisan that you don’t care about the consequences as long as it makes your political party look good temporarily, sir. I suspect that it is probably a little bit of both.

“Iran does not want war with the USA.” Really? That statement right there speaks to your ignorance. Iran has already been at war with the United States and our allies through proxies or semi-covert means for a long time now. Iran is still the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Hamas and Assad’s Syria are Iranian puppets that have long attacked our friends in Israel. During the last gulf war, Iran provided material support and expertise to the Iraqi insurgents with their construction of bombs and IED’s. Iran’s Revolutionary Guard was actually training and fighting against American troops in Iraq. Yes, Iran has and is already at war with us.

Further, the Iranian belief in their twelfth imam and the hastening of end times by their actions should scare the hell out of all of us. It seems crazy to us and we don’t want to believe it, but they believe it and that is what truly matters. You may want to educate yourself more on this non-existent threat from Iran “that doesn’t want war with the USA.” http://savingcommonsense.blogspot.com/2015/03/an-exceptionally-dangerous-idea-nuclear.html
War is certainly not a better solution than peace. I am a veteran of the first gulf war in Desert Storm. Nearly any military member would prefer peace to war; however, peace at the price of capitulation and weakness only delays war and causes innocent people to suffer. War should only be used as a last resort when all other means are exhausted. What we have done by agreeing to this pernicious deal is hasten a potential world war of nuclear proportions by bearing our heads in the Iranian sand.

As for your comments on gays in the military, I can only assume that you are not a veteran… and certainly not a combat veteran or you might have a different perspective accordingly, sir.

As for “entitlement” and “socialism”, I am very familiar with their definitions. Are you? And are you familiar with their history and what they have wrought? Trust me, my vocabulary is quite extensive.

“I’m so happy your kind is growing old and dying off.”

Nice. Sorry to say though, I am only in my late forties. I have decades left of my life to try and educate and influence all of our younger “enlightened” Americans as to why socialism doesn’t work and is responsible for wars and deaths of millions and millions of people during the 20th century.

“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” ~ Margaret Thatcher

 
At 3:36 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

“I'm with you on the Hillary thing. s I stated in the piece, the Dems could do a Hell of a lot better than her.”

Tom, I am glad that you too reject Hillary. I don’t know if you read the millions of comments on your previous post, but I think somewhere within those I wrote that I would like very much to put the partisan political nonsense aside. I would like to see an articulate debate of ideas between someone like Bernie Sanders and a worthy conservative opponent. I still believe that if the American people are engaged and listening, they will choose the right course.

Sadly, both sides have disengaged and become ignorant. Sound bites and name-calling seem to rule the day accordingly. I would not be happy, but I could live with losing an election, if it were based on a debate of ideas and principles instead of just putting the next fools “who’s turn it is” into the White House. I suspect this is something upon which you and I could both agree, sir! Cheers!

 
At 3:56 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Modusoperandi, I think you have been misinformed. Iran does not have to get rid of all of its centrifuges. It still needs them to enrich uranium for “energy” production. Evidently the pool of oil this country sits on isn’t sufficient for its “energy” needs. Maybe the mullahs are simply trying to be more “green”. Further, its nuclear material was supposed to be shipped to Russia, but Iran reneged on that part of the deal too, and we acquiesced. When Iran does cheat on their agreement, and if history is any guide here they most certainly will cheat, then I promise you that no sanctions will be re-established. It took a monumental effort to put sanctions on Iran in the first place. WHEN they cheat, Russia and China and other nations will not be willing to put sanctions back in place. Russia will be making money by selling Iran military equipment. They won’t cut off that cash cow. Perhaps, only America would restore sanctions, and that will have far less effect if we are the only ones left of the coalition doing so. Further, American sanctions would likely only be re-established if we had a president with a spine and principles in office. That is not a given by any means.

If Obama and Kerry are wrong, and Iran does acquire nuclear weapons, what will we do then? And even by Obama’s own acknowledgement, this agreement only kicks the can down the road for a decade if Iran miraculously does abide by its constraints. In ten years they can have their nuclear weapon, assuming they don’t continue to work covertly, with a now unfettered economy once again, to put together a nuclear weapon. Obama won’t admit he is wrong, even if Tel Aviv is annihilated and Israel has been wiped off the map, just like the Iranian regime STILL proclaims it will be. I don’t know which is the more dangerous enemy of the United States: naivety, ignorance, or naked partisan ambition.

 
At 4:02 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Let me get this straight...Bernie Sanders is willing to do the things Amerikans want and need done to save Amerika from becoming a total fascist oligarchy but he stands no chance of getting elected ( or even getting the nomination of his ? party ) ?? What is wrong with this picture ?? Oh wait, when one considers that our so called democracy is a total farce it all makes sense. Wasn't it Hillary who said something to the effect that " we can't do what the people want, that's for sure. " I'm not sure that is a totally accurate quote but she was indicating she felt elites like herself were somehow better suited to run the show. How's that been working for us ?? Yeah put a bunch of psychopaths in control, brilliant idea. The 2016 election will only serve to confirm that it is an " Us vs. Them " country and that We The People are on our own. Good luck folks...

 
At 4:15 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

T Paine, why don't you go back to your masters, the Kochs, and tell them America is not buying the BULLSHIT you spew.

We don't need any more aircraft carriers, and we sure don't need anymore militarization. We need PEACE and Obama is doing it right.

If you want more wars YOU fight and YOU pay for them. Eisenhower warned us about the "military industrial complex" which means, when war becomes big business, we are SCREWED. Iran only want s a bomb because they know if they have one we won't try and overthrow their SOVEREIGN NATION.

On that note, who the FUCK are we to tell ANY other country what they can and can't do? What if Russia said we can't have elections anymore? What if SAUDI ARABIA said we HAD to become Muslim?

We would not like that much would we?

We need to STOP being warmongers and START taking care of our own country because soon there won't be anything left to defend. Our schools are failing, our infrastructure is falling apart, people are going hungry and homeless in the richest nation on the planet, and for WHAT?

Another yacht or another mansion for the rich?

And why do veterans BENEFITS have to be "paid for" but another war can just be put on the credit card?

No sir, your conservative policies have failed, over and over. Time to either help us fix this country or get the hell OUT.

 
At 4:17 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

And any conservative that thinks I'm wrong can answer ONE question...

If what you want is right, why do you have to cheat to win elections?

 
At 4:29 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Mozart, today's so called Democrats are not the answer either. Until the puppets are freed from their masters it will matter little to those poorly educated, poverty ridden, homeless Amerikans who is in the White House. As I have said years before it became fashionable, Amerika needs a redistribution of wealth to raise the standard of living for the majority of the population. Paying workers a living wage would be a good start. One just needs to look to Scandinavian countries to see how a touch of socialism can really improve a society. Healthcare, paid vacation, realistic retirement age, what a concept !! Here it's eat shit and die suckers !! Gotta love our cutthroat capitalism !!

 
At 4:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You got that right Ellis, look what the Dems rake in on taxes and they still need more for their big govt programs. Big Govt spending and you got nothing to show for it. Good thing we still allow profits or there wouldn't be anything to tax.

(CNSNews.com) - The federal government raked in a record of approximately $2,446,920,000,000 in tax revenues through the first nine months of fiscal 2015 (Oct. 1, 2014 through the end of June), according to the Monthly Treasury Statement released today.

That equaled approximately $16,451 for every person in the country who had either a full-time or part-time job in June.

It is also up about $178,156,270,000 in constant 2015 dollars from the $2,268,763,730,000 in revenue (in inflation-adjusted 2015 dollars) that the Treasury raked in during the first nine months of fiscal 2014.

Despite the record tax revenues of $2,446,920,000,000 in the first nine months of this fiscal year, the government spent $2,760,301,000,000 during those nine months, and, thus, ran up a deficit of $313,381,000,000 during the period.

 
At 5:05 PM, Anonymous Annoymous said...

Here you Ellis, here are some of those cutthroat capitalism controls you seem to want more of.
EPA
DOJ
IRS
NLRB
ACA
DOOD FRANK
MIN WAGE
CFCB

What would you lime to add to the list of controls?

 
At 5:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our schools are failing, our infrastructure is falling apart, people are going hungry and homeless in the richest nation on the planet, and for WHAT?

Another yacht or another mansion for the rich?

Good points, Mozart1220.

What we tax shows what we value and what we wish to punish. That’s why we have low taxes on investments and high taxes on cigarettes and labor.

A "conservative" will cut welfare and say "get a better job if you're a member of the working poor!"

They're against raising the minimum wage. They've said that McDonald’s jobs are for high school kids. They never have an answer when I ask if Big Macs should just be unavailable between 7 am and 3 pm on weekdays during the school year.

 
At 5:12 PM, Anonymous John said...

>>The ONLY candidate who is saying the things that the American people need to hear is Bernie Sanders, and he doesn't stand a chance.

I predict Bernie will overcome the character attacks that will surely come his way to knock Hillary out of the running for the nomination.

In any event, I'm inclined to agree that this election cycle will bring record weirdness.

Jill Stein is also a sane candidate - of course her chances are non-existent - like every other commodity in this nation, sanity has it's price - particularly those in such short supply...

 
At 5:50 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Ellis D...given the way things improved under Clinton, and now under Obama, I'll take what the Dems are doing over that of the GOP. Are the Dems perfect? Certainly not...but FAR better for the public at large than the evil GOP.

 
At 7:40 PM, Anonymous Hopey McChange said...

"Here it's eat shit and die suckers !! Gotta love our cutthroat capitalism !!"

Right On Ellis D!

Lets make the minimum wage $100 an hour and have only a 35 hour work week like most of the state employees in AmeriKa! That's what I call progress!

 
At 7:44 PM, Anonymous Hopey McChange said...

A better and peaceful world is possible — a world where people and nature come before profits. That’s socialism. That’s our vision. We, including most of the posters on the world famous Tom Degan's "The Rant", are the Communist Party USA!

 
At 8:51 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Man, it's not like the Boy Troll even tries to hide it anymore.

Why don't you just pick a name and stick with it?

BTW, learn the difference between "Socialism" and "Communism".

 
At 8:54 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Fear not, the next president will be a “free trade”, corporate written trade agreement, military industrial complex puppet. If it is a democrat he or she will be called a socialist anyway. The Republicans bestow Obama with fast track authority to enable the corporate elite’s agenda. Then they accuse him of being a “Marxist emperor” and “tyrant”. Yup.

TP,
I’m disappointed to see you resorting the same FOX/Limbaugh arguments as the “Hopey McChange” troll.

Of course, amoral spineless Democrats obliged George W. Bush when he “rallied the country for the gulf war”. By “rallied” we mean fear mongered with lies about “Stockpiles of WMDs, “nukular” aluminum tubes, mushroom clouds, scary aerial drones and Saddam’s “ties to al-Qaeda”. The propaganda was effective:

AP( Sept. 3, 2003) Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

THAT is how fascism comes to America. The Big Lie to wage unprovoked war for crony profit and political gain.

War should only be used as a last resort when all other means are exhausted. Unless Republicans are running the show.

We saw how that worked out. When war is the goal, diplomacy is demonized as “peace in our time” appeasement. Republicans still embrace the failed neo-con agenda.

the entitlement mentality the left has created in this country

It’s called “promote and provide for the general welfare”. Blame the founders for that. John Adams signed into law mandating health care for sailors.

Not the biggest entitlement is ownership of our government by banks, corporations and the economic elites. No more democratic republic, no more representation for the majority. But liberals are the scapegoats of the New Corporate Order.

the failed and corrupt policies of the left… that provide unemployment compensation to those who lost jobs because of corporate written trade agreements, that put food on the tables of the poor, that provide a means to escape poverty for retires and health care for those who can’t afford to pay off the Insurance company middle men, etc.

Just don’t call it corruption when the Kochs expect GOP obedience for the billion dollars they give to them. “Free speech” as the founders intended in our Constitution that begins with “We the corporations”.

a true conservative rule-of-law candidate for the Republicans We have to wonder, who is this mythical figure of the far Right?

Someone like Reagan, who illegally sold weapons to Iran to fund the Contra death squads who murdered nuns and priests? Or like when he sent Rumsfeld to buddy up to Saddam and help target those WMD attacks on Iranians?

 
At 8:54 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

All this fool has done with his “peace in our time” deal is to ensure that Iran will get nuclear weapons quicker, have sanctions permanently removed, and start an arms race in the Middle East as Saudi Arabia and other nations seek to acquire nukes to offset Iran’s nukes.

Name calling, combined with a claim to predict the future, is hardly worth consideration as anything but anger and fear. “Screw diplomacy! We’re at WAR!” is hardly a rational alternative.

… he seems to be the left’s messiah anyway.

This is purely a FOX/Limbaugh talking point. Give it up already. See corporate written trade agreement and fast track. See subservience to the Pentagon and military industrial complex, drones, and execution by decree. Yeah, some liberal. Just because you hate him doesn’t mean we love him. Such black and white world views are as dangerous and divisive as they are wrong.

… the United States has long been the one that has kept most of the world somewhat safe and relatively free.

Even with Marxist Democrats? Dreamy “shining city on the hill” rhetoric. WWII and Korea were a long time ago. How safe and free were the Vietnamese 40 to 50 years ago? How safe and free is Iraq now? China? Russia? India? Pakistan? Afghanistan? The US? The price of US sponsored “safety and freedom” has a body count in the millions, and still climbing.

During the last gulf war… we gave Iran a new ally in Iraq. “Liberated” Iraqis welcomed Iran, not the US. Go figure.

Yes, Iran has and is already at war with us. No it isn’t. Supporting the suppressed Palestinians is not the same as war with the US. No, Israel is not the US, despite the genuflection of both major parties.

War should only be used as a last resort when all other means are exhausted. But screw diplomacy, right?

Obama won’t admit he is wrong, even if Tel Aviv is annihilated and Israel has been wiped off the map

Wow. Drama Queen Award for this one.

This is what I mean by FOX/Limbaugh arguments. They do not present facts or reason. It is demonizing. More proof liberals are the scapegoats of the fascistic New Corporate Order.

 
At 9:55 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

“T Paine, why don't you go back to your masters, the Kochs, and tell them America is not buying the BULLSHIT you spew.”

Mozart, you seem to have a lot of hate in your heart, my friend. I understand that progressivism is basically a pessimistic ideology, so I can see how that can happen. That said, I am a free man and serve no master except my Lord Christ.

“We need PEACE and Obama is doing it right.”

Yes indeed. We need peace at any price – right? Even at the price of slavery. What Obama has purchased for us with his corrupt, inept, and incompetent foreign policy of groveling before our enemies, bowing before other heads of state, and alienating our allies is a far more dangerous world where peace is quickly fleeting. We now live in a world where our enemies have grown bolder and no longer fear us, while our allies no longer trust that we have their backs. Meanwhile, Obama and the left (evidently with your consent) want to do anything to try and earn his laughable Nobel Peace Prize he got only a few months into his presidency. You seem to want to give up freedoms for this amorphous “peace”. “Those that would give up essential liberties for temporary safety, are deserving of neither.” ~Benjamin Franklin

“If you want more wars YOU fight and YOU pay for them.”

I HAVE fought and paid for them. I am proud to have done so. It is shame you don’t understand the threats to the world’s freedom – to America’s freedom – that terrorism poses. You seem to think it is all a class warfare game, sir.

“On that note, who the FUCK are we to tell ANY other country what they can and can't do? What if Russia said we can't have elections anymore? What if SAUDI ARABIA said we HAD to become Muslim?”

Really? Who are we to tell the Nazi’s that they cannot invade Poland or France and kill 6 million Jews? Who are we to tell Imperial Japan that they cannot rape and pillage through China? Who are we to tell Saddam Hussein that he cannot annex the sovereign nation of Kuwait? Who are we to tell North Korea that they cannot conquer and enslave the free people of Southern Korea? Who are we to stand up to the murderous communist Soviet regime in a cold war to tell them that their violation of human rights will not go un-noticed or unchecked through global aggression?

If Russia said we cannot have elections anymore or Saudi Arabia insisted that we all become Muslims, do you know what would prevent them from making that happen? It would be our military that you want to cut. Very few kids are willing to pick on the biggest toughest kid on the playground, especially when that kid is a decent one and looks out for smaller kids that are getting picked upon.

 
At 9:57 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

“We need to STOP being warmongers and START taking care of our own country because soon there won't be anything left to defend. Our schools are failing, our infrastructure is falling apart, people are going hungry and homeless in the richest nation on the planet, and for WHAT?”

Good Lord! There is a vast difference between being a “warmonger” and standing up against tyranny and doing the right thing. In today’s world, we don’t have the luxury of being isolationists anymore. To do so only invites potentially existential trouble. That doesn’t mean we need to be nation-building in Afghanistan or anywhere else, but we need to quit with the politically correct rules of engagement. If we are to go to war, we need to Constitutionally declare it, kill the enemy with extreme prejudice, protect civilians, and destroy all enemy command and control infrastructure. We don’t tie the hands of our military. That kills our people and needlessly drags on wars. We approach war with overwhelming force so there is no doubt as to who the victor is, and then we remove ourselves from that theater of war.

“And why do veterans BENEFITS have to be "paid for" but another war can just be put on the credit card?”

That is the first really good question you have asked so far. Further, I agree with the implications of your question.

“No sir, your conservative policies have failed, over and over. Time to either help us fix this country or get the hell OUT.”

Really? It is laughable that you think Obama has done such a remarkable job with his progressive socialistic policies. He is an aloof elitist buffoon. Our true unemployment rate is still in double digits because of the millions of people that have permanently left the work force during his economy. His takeover of health care has hurt the middle class while doing very little, if anything, to help the poor he claims to give a damn about. His shredding of the Constitution and our Bill of Rights with the first, second, fourth, and tenth amendments in particular, is to the point that a congress that truly upheld their oaths of office would have long ago drafted up articles of impeachment against him. Instead, they allow this third-world banana republic “president” to rule by fiat through executive orders. He ignores the constraints placed on his executive branch by the Constitution, and our cowardly congress lets him get away with it.

It has been TRUE conservative policies in decades past that have unleashed the potential of the free market system that created the rising tide that lifted all boats. Hell, JFK cut taxes because he knew that would be the case. Under the socialist Democrat Party of today, JFK would never even be elected. He was too fiscally conservative and evidently far too much of a hawkish “warmonger” in protecting vital U.S. interests for your tastes and that of today’s Democrats.

Last, I would get the hell out, but I have no country left in which to move. You, on the other hand, have a world full of communist and socialist regimes in which you could live. Perhaps you should be the one to leave, along with Obama, Reid, and Pelosi and all of their ilk so that we could return this nation to the free-market Constitutional republic that our founding fathers intended it to be so that we can thrive in liberty once more. Just a thought, anyway. If not, how about you join with us to insist our “leaders” govern strictly by the enumerated powers of the Constitution and nothing more?

 
At 10:19 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

T Paine, you are clearly conservative and as such you CANNOT be a follower of Jesus.

As written in the bible, Jesus was a SOCIALIST LIBERAL.

LOL. The rest of your manifesto was too boring to dig through.

Are you SURE you aren't the Boy Troll?

 
At 10:32 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Mozart,
TP is not the jerk troll. He's arguing his beliefs. The harsher you get, the more comfort he finds in his beliefs, right or wrong.

“Those that would give up essential liberties for temporary safety, are deserving of neither.” ~Benjamin Franklin

We see the Republican authors of the Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act are exempt. IOKIYAR. Keep demonizing liberals. THEY didn’t impose that crap.

you don’t understand the threats to the world’s freedom – to America’s freedom – that terrorism poses.

Wrong. We’ve heard the same empty rhetoric about the failed war on drugs. It is America’s REACTION that diminishes our freedom and bankrupts us financially and morally. But torture is fine. See above.

Nazis, Russians, and Saddam, oh, my!

Iran hasn’t invaded anyone. But they were called the axis of evil by war mongers. Smart.

It has been TRUE conservative policies in decades past that have unleashed the potential of the free market system that created the rising tide that lifted all boats.

This is an undefined and unsupported myth. Unions and the GI Bill did more to create a middle class than de-regulated vulture capitalism. How much better off are Americans without unions? Only the rich.

Hell, JFK cut taxes because he knew that would be the case.

Good. Let’s go back to the tax rates he left us. Where was all that “trickle down” prosperity promised by the mammonites’ and their Reagan and Bush tax cuts for the rich? How’d that work out for us?

so that we could return this nation to the free-market Constitutional republic that our founding fathers intended it to be so that we can thrive in liberty once more.

When was this? The Gilded Age of company towns and child labor? The 1920’s? Where is “Free market” in the Constitution? The false god “free market” has let education and the infrastructure decay, and created the worst inequality and corruption since the Great Depression that the Republicans left for FDR. Even the Pope can see it. The founders knew regulation of commerce was vital. They also opposed aristocracy, but now the Kochs, Waltons and their ilk are dictating our laws. More of that entitlement.

Studies show empathy is lower as wealth increases. Greed prevails for the servants of mammon, and is rewarded by bought and paid for politicians.

What was it that Bush left Obama anyway? The blame, apparently, according to Republicans. I must have missed all those rising boats.

 
At 11:00 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Dave, if Tom Paine doesn't want to be compared to the Boy Troll, he shouldn't post such ridiculously STUPID things. Sorry, but explaining the same crap over and over to these people gets old fast.

He talks about the constitution while his conservative heroes flush the 1st and 4th amendments, and pervert the meaning and intent of the 2nd.

I just get tired some days.

 
At 12:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mozart,

You are a nut job liberal hateful jerk, if you dont want to be called one stop acting like one.

Just because you dont agree with a posters position doesn't mean you have to act like you do.
Grow up Cry Baby

 
At 12:30 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

.given the way things improved under Clinton"

only when a GOP controlled Congress forc3d him to do the right things. Forgot that part didn't you "Cry Baby"?

 
At 11:31 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Boy, T.Paine is sure brainwashed and misguided. Must be his faith in something that doesn't exist, his Lord Christ. Our own evil establishment is a much greater threat to our freedom than terrorists. First of all they have turned our police forces into militarized terrorists who kill innocent people with impunity. Lots of freedom there !! We no longer have the right to protest peacefully as all dissenters are now labeled as " terrorists ". Anyone sane enough not to want endless unwinnable wars that drain our resources and piss away money needed for constructive social purposes is considered an enemy to the establishment. I really feel sorry for all the baby boomers who lost their lives or were maimed in Viet Nam after being drafted or enlisting to fight a war which was claimed necessary to prevent the exact type of fascist totalitarian police state that we now have in Amerika today. It would be ironic if it wasn't so pathetically sad. Wake up people, you have been sold a bill of goods. Remember that the first lie you were told is that you aren't lied to. That should give folks a better perspective on where we are now and how we got there. Mozart, things were better under Clinton because he benefited from the tech boom and the the absence of war. NAFTA fucked us as do all global trade agreements. If things have improved so much under Obummer then why does HALF the country now live in poverty ? I think you just don't want to admit how screwed we are and grab at straws to make yourself feel better...

 
At 12:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kate Steinle’s brother slams Trump for “sensationalizing” her death

After a week of avoiding the national uproar over her death, the family of Kate Steinle is speaking out and at least one member accuses Trump of using her death for political gain.

Brad Steinle, the brother of the young woman gunned down by in San Francisco this month, igniting a debate on sanctuary cities and seized upon by Trump as evidence for his claim that Mexican immigrants are criminals, blasted Trump’s rhetoric.

“Donald Trump talks about Kate Steinle like he knows her,” Steinle told CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Tuesday.

“I’ve never heard a word from his campaign manager, I’ve never heard a word from him. It’s disconcerting. I don’t want to be affiliated with someone who doesn’t have the common courtesy to reach out and ask about Kate, and our political views and what we want.”

“If you’re going to use somebody’s name and you’re going to sensationalize the death of a beautiful young lady,” he continued. “Maybe you should call and talk to the family first and see what their views are … Sensationalizing it is not the route we would like to go.”

Steinle told Cooper that he also disagreed with Trump’s immigration policies, describing ideas like building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border and forcing Mexico to pay for it as “not rational” and “not common sense.”

 
At 1:48 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Ellis D, MAYBE things would improve faster under Obama if the GOP would stop obstructing and participate. As for Clinton, NAFTA was Bush I's baby.

Jeez, I get tired of explaining things to Fox news bots.


BTW, did you hear that Obama is INVADING TEXAS? LOL.

 
At 2:09 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Mozart, I agree about the ridiculous level of obstruction, most of Congress should be impeached and tried for treason. We have to stop accepting as fact that the lesser of the evils is the best we can ever hope for. I voted for Obummer in 2008 but not in 2012. In my opinion he is a phony and a puppet of the ruthless capitalist establishment that shits on poor working class Amerikans every chance it can. I guess his Ivy League education is to blame. It appears that those at such schools are taught to believe they are better and smarter than those educated at mainstream colleges and universities. We need politicians at all levels of government who address the needs of the people and not the needs of Wall Street, Big Pharma, the MIC and the Silicon Valley. I like the way Eric Holder goes back to his old law firm that just happens to represent the banks he refused to prosecute. Give me a break !! They don't even try to hide their corrupt ways nowadays, they rub it in our faces !!

 
At 2:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obstructing like the GOP did with Clinton?

Liberals support illegal immigration.

 
At 2:43 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Hey Anonymous, I have news for you, I don't even support legal immigration !! I think that until all the people who belong here have jobs that pay living wages, no foreigners should be allowed to come here at all. A country should look after its own people before it worries about others. Just try to emigrate from Amerika to somewhere else and see how far you get. Other countries only let in people who have skills that they need. Here it seems the establishment seeks to divide the citizenry by allowing NON-ASSIMILATING immigrants to come here, live as a subculture, take jobs needed by natives and create a divided society unable to unite and rise up against the oppressive establishment. The demographics of 1960s-1970s Amerika was much different than the demographics today. Back then we were able to organize and get things done by group effort. Today it's every man for himself with no altruistic outlook at all. Immigration is mostly to blame for that...

 
At 3:17 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Ellis,
We can depend on the Right for always getting this wrong. Their indoctrination that forms their ideas of what liberals think and believe are rigidly held beliefs. The authoritarian Right cannot question their leaders pronouncements. If they say Obama the "free trade agreement" corporatist is a Marxist, then that's what he is.

The far Right has been demonizing liberals, and defining us to fit their prejudicial views, for decades. In their view, liberals hate America and have taken over "their country". They cannot comprehend the notion that some liberals have guns or go to church. They portray liberals as commies, atheists and agents of Satan, just as a cult teaches its members to fear and loathe all those outside their belief system. They cannot accept diversity at all in their black and white world view.

The far Right also considers their belief system as "values", that automatically excludes all others holding different beliefs.

There's a reason why liberals feel like they will be the "Jews", aka scapegoats, in this blossoming fascist America. Democracy is openly targeted by Republicans and their neo-aristocratic masters.

As much as both major parties are dangled by the same puppet-masters, the GOP is by far the greater force against democracy and diversity.

Roughly 25% of any population are authoritarian personalities, the true believers. They are bombarded with propaganda that says only THEY are the "real Americans" and the rest are...fill in the blank. We are targets of wild accusations all the time. See above.

They still insist we see Obama the corporatist as our "savior". There's no reasoning with this toxic indoctrination.

We see this all the time from these guys.

 
At 4:17 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

“…I agree about the ridiculous level of obstruction, most of Congress should be impeached and tried for treason.”

Ellis, please tell me you don’t really think that congress should simply always be a rubber stamp of whatever the president dictates, regardless of his party.

Regardless, you do indeed have some interesting takes on things, counselor. As an example:

“Our own evil establishment is a much greater threat to our freedom than terrorists. First of all they have turned our police forces into militarized terrorists who kill innocent people with impunity.”

While I admit that our freedoms are definitely under assault from progressive policies under both parties, I think your hyperbole is just that: hyperbole. Are there some bad police officers that should be removed from serving and put in jail? Absolutely, and I fully support and expect such abuses to be fully prosecuted as examples to others. When officers use deadly force in unjustified situations, especially when they result in the loss of life, they should be prosecuted. That said, our police departments certainly are not para-military organizations that kill innocent people with impunity.

I respectfully disagree with you further regarding our right to assemble. We are still allowed to do so when it is done peacefully. Unfortunately, the Occupy Wall Street crowd in New York, the hooligans and thugs in Baltimore and Missouri are not always peaceful, are they?

Next, I don’t want war either, but we better be damned well prepared to win when war comes knocking at our door. Or do you think that if we just pull back from all the corners of the world and mind our own business that the bad guys won’t soon be coming after us? It is amazing how soon we have lost the lessons of the 9/11 attacks.

At least you do see that neither Clinton, Bush, or Obama have improved our nation. On that, we can at least agree, sir.

As for your dismissal of God’s existence, that is your right to believe such silliness, sir. I could wax on about why you are wrong, but the arguments on this blog get dragged off topic way too much as it is. I’ll save that discussion for another day. Suffice it to say that I believe in God because, as an engineer, that is where science, logic, reason, and philosophy led me. I am curious though… how do YOU explain our existence and the creation of everything in the universe without a transcendent cause outside of time and space?

 
At 4:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


William Gibson ‏@GreatDismal 2h2 hours ago
Jade Helm mega-warriors are installing a network of hyper-liberal Austinite blockwatchers across all Texas, right now

William Gibson ‏@GreatDismal 2h2 hours ago
By tomorrow, every patriot firearm in Texas will have been smelted in FEMA’s mobile electric gun-furnaces

William Gibson ‏@GreatDismal 19m19 minutes ago
First reports out of Texas of mass forced gay marriage

 
At 4:40 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


Some clarifications, please.

Who were the victims of Occupy Wall Street violence? We know protesters were hurt by cops.

Were the "lessons of the 9/11 attacks" justification to start a war of aggression against a country NOT involved in 9/11?

Were the "lessons of the 9/11 attacks" justification for torture and running hell-holes like Abu-Ghraib?

How many dead innocent Iraqis are needed to justify our lessons of 9/11? How many more innocents must die?

While we're at it, what are the lessons of the Oklahoma City and Charleston Right Wing terrorist attacks?

Is the lesson "only Muslims are terrorists"?

I admit that our freedoms are definitely under assault from progressive policies under both parties,

Could you share your standards that have determined the Patriot Act, Warrantless Surveillance, and the Military Commissions Act as "progressive policies"?

It seems every problem is "progressive policy" to the Right, as every object is a nail to a hammer.

 
At 5:08 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Ellis, your next comment at first comes across as xenophobic, but you actually do have some excellent points, sir. I am an engineer by trade and education. A great many of my peers in the fortune 500 company in which I work are engineers that are here on work visas from China, India, and other nations. We have so dumbed down our populace that we don’t seem to have enough native born engineers in America, so to fill those job needs we are forced to look outside of our borders. Americans are too lazy to take college courses in math, sciences, and engineering. We want instant gratification without having to work for it. Immigrants don’t seem to have a problem with working hard… and reaping those rewards accordingly.

I further agree that we need to be taking care of our own citizens first prior to sending our tax payer dollars in foreign aid to countries that are our adversaries and despise us.

Also, we did indeed use to be more of a melting pot, where immigrants would come to America in the desire to be Americans. They retained the culture of their homelands, but they also worked hard to assimilate into the American culture. You are correct that this no longer seems to be the case. Now immigrants come here and remain ardently stuck in their own sub-cultures of their homelands. They demand that businesses and certainly government services cater to them in their native language with forms written in their own tongue. This is ludicrous and something that isn’t done anywhere else in the world of which I am aware.

We have politicians that play off of identity politics and pit one group of people against another as a source of shoring up voting blocks. The same is done with class warfare. Until we start working together with what makes us similar instead of pointing out all the things that make us different, this will only continue to get worse.

Dubya, you speak of diversity as always a good thing. Frankly, I suppose it surely can be. But not always. How about we work towards not just a diversity in the color of our skin pigmentation, but perhaps also some diversity in our ideas. Let’s stop demonizing conservatives just because they don’t adhere to the same exact and precise ideas you do, my friend.

 
At 6:00 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

“Who were the victims of Occupy Wall Street violence? We know protesters were hurt by cops.”

Do you mean besides all of the property destruction of private businesses and a public park? Do you mean the other “protestors” that were raped by their fellow “protestors”. Do you mean the cops that were assaulted by the protestors and provoked in the hope of drawing them into physical confrontations by spitting on them and defecating on their police cars?

Next, Abu-Ghraib was little more than a fraternity hazing. You speak about it like the al Jazeera propaganda that was put out. You would think that people were cutting off body parts, shocking prisoners genitals, and beating the soles of prisoners feet with batons. Oh wait! That was done to prisoners… under Saddam’s regime.

9/11 and Iraq were not connected. That said, Saddam was trying to acquire WMD’s and did have them. How do we know this? Well, sadly because America provided him with some of them. And we retrieved other chemical weapons there in-country. The fact that we telegraphed our intentions to invade if Saddam refused to comply with UN resolutions for months gave him ample time to move or hide those remaining caches of WMD’s.

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons." ~ Former President Clinton during an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live" July 22, 2003

“Now let me be clear -- I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him." ~ State Senator Barack Obama (Democrat, Illinois) Speech at Federal Plaza, Chicago, Illinois October 2, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security. This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction." ~ Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York) Addressing the US Senate October 10, 2002

Further, as I said, there were WMD’s discovered in Iraq, contrary to your protestations to the contrary. Over four hundred rockets filled with chemical weapons in particular were acquired by the CIA there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have-bought-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html?emc=edit_th_20150216&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=33481558&_r=1

As for Oklahoma City and other domestic terrorist attacks, I don’t condone those any more than I do of Obama’s friend Bill Ayers when he and his weather underground bombed police stations and the Pentagon in the 1970’s. I don’t excuse one act of terror because the perpetrator professes to be politically right wing any more than I do if they are leftist radicals. They are both criminals. The difference is that McVeigh was executed for his crimes. Sadly and inexplicably, Bill Ayers is teaching our kids in college and helped launch our President’s political career from his living room. THAT is the difference, sir.

 
At 6:12 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

TP,
To clarity, my use of diversity was in reference to beliefs, not skin color.

... just as a cult teaches its members to fear and loathe all those outside their belief system. They cannot accept diversity at all in their black and white world view.

Fortunately you and I communicate in a way where we can realize our agreement on things.

Until we start working together with what makes us similar instead of pointing out all the things that make us different, this will only continue to get worse.

I wholeheartedly agree. Please don't take my critique of the far Right's demonization of liberals as an attack on conservatives. Note my distinction. No one is more conservative than I am in conserving our constitutional democratic representative republic of, by and for the people.

It's a lost cause, I'm afraid.

I'm not demonizing conservatives. I am calling out the divisive tactics and lies employed by the far Right.

I will continue condemning the demonization as long as FOX/Limbaugh continue doing it. I do not tolerate the intolerant, if you know what I mean. It is too easy for many Americans to accept their rhetoric as truth. It is not. They have a Republican agenda, you know.

Rachel Maddow and I don't exactly share the same perspective on gun control.

I am as outraged, or more so, at Democrats who abandon the will of the people to serve their big money masters or follow a neo-con war agenda.

I have an anti-authoritarian, civil libertarian streak that refuses to follow any party line.

I also understand the needs of, and for, a cooperative community of citizens that can only be realized by a Constitutional government. We may disagree on the meaning, or extent, of "general welfare" and "regulation of commerce" but there is no denying the words are there.

De-regulated capitalism always results in massive upward redistribution of wealth, and by extension, political power.

Yes, what the Right calls socialism is in our Constitution. There is no such thing as zero socialism in a nation that wishes to have a civil society.

The propagandists do their utmost to deceive Americans into believing social safety net programs are communism.

Communism is state ownership of all industry and resources, yet no liberal I know of is advocating this. They are called commies by the far Right anyway. Demonization again.

And it is evil.

When provoked by evil, I verbally retaliate without mercy. Just like you advocate on a grander, physical scale.






 
At 6:25 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

T. Paine, I believe in nature not a Supreme Being. Let me ask you this...if there is a God, how did he get here ? Have you ever seen evidence of him Mr. Engineer Sir ? I see more evidence of Satan here on Earth than I see of God. Like you said, that discussion is for another day.
We do agree on some matters of importance which is refreshing to see. I disagree with your comparison of rioters to protesters. You know damn well that trouble makers are planted by the establishment to blemish peaceful protests.
As for protecting our borders, the best protection would come from stopping our Imperialistic conquest of the World and leave other nations ALONE. Sticking one's nose in where it doesn't belong is a sure way to piss people off enough to want to kill us.
I'm glad you acknowledge the situation with immigration and I'm sure you see how these subcultures divide us and keep us unable to organize.
T. Paine you seem to be one of the brighter among your group, showing that not all conservatives are ignorant and irrational. Good for you !!

 
At 6:44 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Dubya and Ellis, the last postings by each of you gives me further hope. It is good that we can at least agree on somethings and do so in a civil manner. Cheers to both of you gentlemen! And Dubya, I'll heave a shot of Wild Turkey back in your honor tonight! I think I'll leave the debate for today on that good note.

 
At 6:54 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...


The victim of the worst violence WAS an OWS protester. As you condemn them all for the actions of predators who may, or may not, have been part of the protests, what was their primary message? Why did it get suppressed by corporate and Right wing media?

They were speaking to the injustice and lack of accountability of the Wall Street Swindlers who collapsed our economy. What about THEIR victims? Squat.

Abu-Ghraib was little more than a fraternity hazing

Quoting Rush Limbaugh again. Very sad. Please link us to any inmates making this claim.

BTW hazing kills someone every year. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss it as harmless. People died and were tortured in Abu-Ghraib, and elsewhere, under US leadership.

Democrats said Saddam was evil. They were correct. But Bush alone started the war.

There is no evidence for your claim of "secret smuggled WMDs". Depleted remnants were known and cataloged by Hans Blix before the war. They were never employed against US forces.

There was NO active WMD program. No "nukular" aluminum tubes. And what about Saddam being in cahoots with al-Qaeda?

Lies. All verifiable BEFORE the invasion. And I was told I hate America for saying this before the war. That, sir, along with starting unprovoked wars, is a characteristic of fascism.

Was this the lesson of 9/11?

You can't seriously be equating the actions of McVeigh with Ayers, are you? Who did Ayers kill? That is the REAL difference, my good man.

Ayers was a misguided fool. He paid his debt to society. But at least self defense could be weakly claimed when the Pentagon was taking us to die for no reason in Vietnam.

McVeigh was a rabid homicidal anti-government Right wing nut and terrorist. Same thing?

 
At 6:56 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I could use a break.

Cheers.

 
At 9:01 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

"Abu-Ghraib was little more than a fraternity hazing"

I noticed that Sean Hannity welched on his promise to be water boarded pretty quick after the Radio host from Chicago submitted to it and tapped out after less than 5 seconds.

 
At 1:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah man, we need ton impeach somebody or hall them before the world court or something Dude, like man.

 
At 11:24 AM, Anonymous anonymous said...

Goosed into action by an angry federal judge, federal immigration authorities will go door-to-door demanding illegal immigrants return the three-year amnesty approvals the Obama administration issued to them in defiance of a court order. Those who don’t return their three-year permits will have them terminated at the end of this month, the National Immigrant Justice Center, one of the advocacy groups briefed on authorities’ plan, said in a statement preparing immigrants for what could be a traumatic encounter.

Traumatic? You mean like the trauma resulting from a White House who doesn't obey the law, that kind of trauma? Should be the National ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION Center.

 
At 11:36 AM, Anonymous anonymous said...

In more news liberals don't want to hear:


Five days after accusing The New York Times of bias, secrecy and foul play, Ted Cruz is finally getting what he wanted: a highly coveted spot on the paper’s bestseller list.

Cruz’s memoir, “A Time For Truth,” will appear at No. 7 on the Times’ list for hardcover nonfiction, reflecting its second-week sales, a Times spokesperson confirmed on Wednesday. The Texas senator’s book had not been included on the list for its first week, on the grounds that its sales had been driven by “strategic bulk purchases.”

Times spokesperson Eileen Murphy said that the newspaper made no changes to its selection process, and so the fact that Cruz’s book is being included now suggests a rise in individual purchases, spurred by his public battle with the paper.

“This week’s NYT best seller list was arrived at using the same process as last week’s – and the week before that,” Murphy wrote. “That process involves a careful analysis of data, and is not influenced in any way by the content of a book, or by pressure from publishers or book sellers.”

"Susan Rice ADMITS Iran will have $100 BILLION more to send to TERRORISTS because of nuke deal."

Blame Bush.





 
At 11:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom Petty in Rolling Stone:

Petty, who featured the Confederate flag prominently onstage during his Southern Accents tour in 1985, spoke to Rolling Stone hours after the [South Carolina statehouse] flag was taken down to express remorse for his actions.

The Confederate flag was the wallpaper of the South when I was a kid growing up in Gainesville, Florida. I always knew it had to do with the Civil War, but the South had adopted it as its logo. I was pretty ignorant of what it actually meant. It was on a flagpole in front of the courthouse and I often saw it in Western movies. I just honestly didn’t give it much thought, though I should have.

[He eventually asked his audiences to stop wearing and waving Confederate regalia at his concerts, and they pretty much complied. Petty had photos of the band performing before the flag removed from a live album record cover.]

Again, people just need to think about how it looks to a black person. It’s just awful. It’s like how a swastika looks to a Jewish person. It just shouldn’t be on flagpoles.

Beyond the flag issue, we’re living in a time that I never thought we’d see. The way we’re losing black men and citizens in general is horrific. What’s going on in society is unforgivable. As a country, we should be more concerned with why the police are getting away with targeting black men and killing them for no reason. That’s a bigger issue than the flag. Years from now, people will look back on today and say, “You mean we privatized the prisons so there’s no profit unless the prison is full?” You’d think someone in kindergarten could figure out how stupid that is. We’re creating so many of our own problems.

 
At 12:37 PM, Anonymous Hopey McChange said...

Wisconsin governor Scott Walker formally announced Monday that he will run for the Republican nomination in the 2016 presidential election, bringing one of the frontrunners in early polls officially into the race. Here are some key facts to know about Walker:

Birthplace: Tea Party comment thread

Greatest Strength: Possesses image and political credentials necessary to appeal to both Koch brothers

Personal Beliefs: Reasonably well-concealed

Labor Union: Longtime member of Local Elected Officials 438

Personal Hero: Sixth-grade teacher who inspired him to strip educators of collective bargaining rights and dismantle publicly funded higher education

Greatest Accomplishment: Stood up to people who make living pulling others from burning buildings

House Band: The Walkettes

Gubernatorial Record: First governor in history to raise enough out-of-state funding to overcome recall challenge from own constituents

Chief Political Rival: Those who want to make a living wage

 
At 1:57 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

You forgot a couple of things about Walker....
Father: Satan
IQ: High as possible with shit for brains.

 
At 3:25 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

The Boy Troll should check out any Goodwill in the country, where each one has DOZENS of copies of Rush Limbaugh's books. They were all "bestsellers" as well.

The problem is, it's not based on what people BUY, it based on what the bookstores ORDER. Barns and Noble couldn't give away Palin's books. It will be the same with Cruz.

Oh and the Iran deal is a good thing, it keeps them from building a nuke and we don't have to go to war over it.

No wonder the defense contractors and the GOP hate it. No war profiteering.

 
At 4:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you think a "living wage" would be?

 
At 5:15 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Anonymous, a living wage would be at least $20 an hour. That's right, the lowest paid workers in Amerika should be paid at least $20 an hr. If some kind of subsidy or tax credit for small businesses is needed to achieve that, then so be it. Take a few trillion dollars from the MIC budget and we will have plenty of money for such subsidies. Larger companies will just have to live with less profits and smaller CEO bonuses. I know I will hear cries of socialism and entitlements blah, blah. Well guess what ? In a civilized society workers are ENTITLED to a living wage and reasonable vacation/sick-days/maternity leave/retirement etc. You conservatives want to turn Amerika into a Third World Banana Republic and you are doing a good job of it.

 
At 11:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok Ellis, what should the requirements be of a worker to make $20 and hour? IE: what do you think they should bring to the employer in exchange for their wage?

BTW, do you have a problem with your idea being called socialism?
Honestly when you use the term "Third World Banana Republic" Cuba and Venezuela come to mind, who comes to yours?

 
At 11:44 AM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Anonymous, any country that is a plutocracy with a wealthy ruling class and an impoverished working class is what comes to my mind when I think of a Banana Republic.I think at this point Amerika totally qualifies as one.
I have no problem with my idea being called socialism, it's the cutthroat capitalist pigs that have a problem with that.
What an employer can expect from a worker for $20 an hr. is the worker's best effort to do the best job he or she can, be prompt, reliable and honest. I think that is all that can be expected of human beings. It would be nice if the plutocrats were human too. Somehow they seem to me to be less than human. I'm sure that's how they feel about me. That's what class warfare is all about my friend...

 
At 12:32 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

This is what it looks like to an American neo-Aristocrat:

"My aspiration for the country -- and I believe we can achieve it -- is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see, which means we have to be a lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours and, through their productivity, gain more income for their families. That's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in."

After being called out, Jeb provides "context".

"You can take it out of context all you want, but high-sustained growth means that people work 40 hours rather than 30 hours and that by our success, they have money, disposable income for their families to decide how they want to spend it rather than getting in line and being dependent on government."

How hilarious. A Republican begging for context, a day late and a dollar short.

You didn’t build that, right, Jebya?

Numerous studies, and events all over the world in everyday life, show the richer you are the less empathy you have for fellow human beings.


http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

The Money-Empathy Gap

 
At 12:38 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Yeah right, try to find a job that will give you more than 30 hrs. a week. Almost all jobs are part time to avoid having to give the employees benefits or overtime. Jeb is as delusional as the rest of these assholes...

 
At 2:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis,
what if the employees best effort is not good enough to get the word done as needed, what happens then?

more than 30 hrs. a week, thank you Obamacare.

 
At 8:05 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

T. Paine: "Yes, Iran has and is already at war with us."

I think you have it turned around...


"In today’s world, we don’t have the luxury of being isolationists anymore."

We're currently isolationists? When has the United States been considered "isolationist" during your time on earth?

 
At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have to understand T. Paine, that according to liberals the USA is an agent of evil in the world, and as such has no right to draw lines in the sand.

 
At 1:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson's Guardian, I think you're making a mistake looking for logic in the comments of the "conservatives" here.

You are underestimating the meanness and stupidity of the conservative base.

“Suck it, libtards” is their defining ethic – they’re nihilists.

 
At 2:17 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

“Suck it, libtards” is their defining ethic – they’re nihilists.

While the former rings true regarding the hate from the far Right, the fact is they are Right Wing authoritarian personalities. A simple measure of this trait would be if someone still believes Dick Cheney was being truthful, he's an authoritarian follower. They never question their authoritarian leaders. Trump is their latest and greatest authoritarian leader.

Remember studies show as wealth increases, empathy diminishes. Authoritarians scorn empathy as weakness.

And they are not conservative by any means. They are in lock-step support of the global corporatist neo-liberal agenda. They wish to impose radical change that strips all public safety nets, aka "general welfare" and regulation of commerce. They seek to dismantle the heart of our Constitution, drafted for "we the people". Now corporations and "too big to fail or jail" banks are endowed with immortal, unaccountable, super personhood with near limitless "free speech" cash to sway elections and buy politicians.

Koch boy Walker is their other authoritarian leader. His agenda is identical to the Koch agenda. He is their puppet.

 
At 2:19 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

I love conservatives who attack Obama for his PEACEFUL deal with Ira, while conveniently forgetting that their own Messiah, Reagan, sold them weapons and then lied about it.

Can you say TREASON?

 
At 3:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BUT, there is no hate from the left, no not ever.

 
At 4:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BUT, there is no hate from the left, no not ever.

True, our hearts are full of love, even for third-rate internet trolls such as yourself.

Speaking of trolling, SoreLoserSharptoonVanessaHarry (plus a variety of other aliases)... you took my bait very nicely. When I posted the chauncey devega link, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist trying to troll him. You did your usual "blah people commit 99% of the crime" spew and Chauncey deleted you!

Feel free to post more comments over there. Maybe you can use your "Al Sharptoon" alias! It'll be fun to see you get the ban hammer.

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

They obviously caught the wrong guy here. Only Blacks and Mexicans commit crimes RIGHT?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/uncle-maine-shootings-suspect-showed-no-emotion-at-arrest/ar-AAdbEJF

 
At 4:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"True, our hearts are full of love, even for third-rate internet trolls such as yourself."

It's not a lie if you believe it.

 
At 6:47 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...


Yeah, the confederate flag has nothing to do with racism....


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kkk-protests-after-swift-reckoning-for-confederate-flag-in-the-south/ar-AAdbDJg

 
At 7:00 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Mozart,
The Klan loves their flag. It's about their "heritage" of hate.

Looks like they hate Democrats more than black Republicans.

He said he would vote for Ben Carson, the African American Republican candidate for president over Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton. He said he hates black people as a race, not individually.

But the troll said the Klan members are all Democrats. Could he possibly be wrong?

I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya.


 
At 8:22 PM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

The Troll needs to stop getting his history from Texas textbooks.

 
At 8:45 AM, Blogger Jefferson's Guardian said...

Anonymous: "Jefferson's Guardian, I think you're making a mistake looking for logic in the comments of the 'conservatives' here. You are underestimating the meanness and stupidity of the conservative base."

You misinterpret my intentions. I realize logic, and realization of truth, is missing from the conservative agenda, and that ignorance and lies are abound. This is purely for entertainment purposes. I enjoy shoving their inane and unrealistic comments under their collective noses. Maybe they can "smell" their own insincerity -- because they certainly can't see it.

 
At 9:15 AM, Anonymous Harry from Wallingford, CT said...

"I have no problem with my idea being called socialism, it's the cutthroat capitalist pigs that have a problem with that.
What an employer can expect from a worker for $20 an hr. is the worker's best effort to do the best job he or she can, be prompt, reliable and honest."

Like the New York State Department of Transportation and the contractors they hire? Every project is milked to the last drop like "The Big Dig" in Boston paid for by other people's money. Every time you drive by a work site, most of the people aren't working. One guy will have a shovel in his hand pretending like he is about to work.

 
At 9:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harry/SoreLoser/Sharpoon/Vanessa/etc.

Dance, puppet dance! Any more comments for chauncey devega?

So easy to make you dance. Your buttons are so fun to push.

 
At 9:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you President Obama and the Democrat party for all you do for us.

American teen employment has dropped 20 percent from the late 1980s, in part because more and more immigrants have flooded into the market to displace native-born kids from jobs in percentages far higher than on adults, according to the Federal Reserve.

"The displacement effect of immigration on the employment of younger persons is much larger than on the employment of prime-age adults," said the September 2014 report, "Labor Force Participation: Recent Developments and Future Prospects."

The Fed report is the second to blame immigrants for taking jobs "native" teens would normally fill and come as new media reports show teen employment down this year.

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that it obtained records from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) revealing that nearly 260 illegal alien criminals, including 40 incarcerated for violent crimes, were released from Arizona detention facilities during the last week of February and the first two weeks of March 2013. After first denying that the mass release had taken place, the Obama administration claimed the releases were due to the anticipated sequestration budget cuts. The newly obtained records were uncovered because of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by Judicial Watch on behalf of Edward Tuffly, a Tucson, AZ, resident (Edward “Bud” Tuffly v. U. S. Department of Homeland Security (No. 2:15-cv 00067)).

MEANWHILE, Obama has been secretly collecting a race based data base
Unbeknown to most Americans, Obama’s racial bean counters are furiously mining data on their health, home loans, credit cards, places of work, neighborhoods, even how their kids are disciplined in school — all to document “inequalities” between minorities and whites.

This Orwellian-style stockpile of statistics includes a vast and permanent network of discrimination databases, which Obama already is using to make “disparate impact” cases against: banks that don’t make enough prime loans to minorities; schools that suspend too many blacks; cities that don’t offer enough Section 8 and other low-income housing for minorities; and employers who turn down African-Americans for jobs due to criminal backgrounds.

Big Brother Barack wants the databases operational before he leaves office, and much of the data in them will be posted online.

Why does Obama and the Democrat Party hate America so much?

 
At 10:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous, why didn't you post this as "Al Sharptoon" or "Tyrone Witherspoon" (or is it Witherspoon?)

Aren't you having fun here anymore?

The president and the "democrat" party hate America?

We really need a better right wing troll. You're just going through the motions at this point.

 
At 10:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why does Obama and the Democrat Party hate America so much?

Hmm... let's see...

Max Cleland. A Democrat. Vietnam vet. Picked up a live grenade. Due to the severity of his injuries, doctors amputated both of Cleland's legs above the knee, and his right forearm. He was 25 years old.

Rep. Tammy Duckworth (Democrat), who lost both her legs in Iraq. She must have really hated America to go volunteer like that.

And I just read about the oldest living veteran. A 110-year-old black woman. Emma Didlake. She recently visited Obama at the White House. She must really hate America to visit a traitor like Obama.

Meanwhile, Trump wasn't able to serve in Vietnam. His excuses sort of contradict each other. Something about a heel spur, but he can't remember which foot. Dick Cheney avoided the draft. The list of republican chicken hawks is a long one.

Interview with Ted Nugent, that brave conservative:

I got my physical notice 30 days prior to. Well, on that day I ceased cleansing my body. No more brushing my teeth, no more washing my hair, no baths, no soap, no water. Thirty days of debris build. I stopped shavin' and I was 18, had a little scraggly beard, really looked like a hippie. I had long hair, and it started gettin' kinky, matted up. Then two weeks before, I stopped eating any food with nutritional value. I just had chips, Pepsi, beer-stuff I never touched-buttered poop, little jars of Polish sausages, and I'd drink the syrup, I was this side of death, Then a week before, I stopped going to the bathroom. I did it in my pants. poop, piss the whole shot. My pants got crusted up.

Tell me again OrphanBoyTroll who are the real patriots?

 
At 12:54 PM, Anonymous Harry from Wallingford, CT said...

"Dance, puppet dance! Any more comments for chauncey devega?"

lol. Don't know chauncey devega. Sounds like an illegal immigrant to me who now rants on a blog that it is her right to free stuff redistributed from others like me.

Does chauncey by chance live in a Sanctuary City like Hartford and New Haven in CT?

I just got a letter from Connecticare that my insurance is going up 10% next year. I go to work to support the liberal loafers and their "free" stuff.

The people of America have had enough of the Democrat run Liberal Plantation which for 50 years has been breeding poverty. Saul Alinsky's favorite radical son, Dave Dubya, knows what I am talking about. See "Michigan is breeding poverty":
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120212/OPINION03/202120303

The first thing Jeb will do as president will repeal and replace ObamaCare!

 
At 2:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol. Don't know chauncey devega. Sounds like an illegal immigrant to me who now rants on a blog that it is her right to free stuff redistributed from others like me.

LOL Chauncey's late father was a WWII vet.

You must have a lot of stuff!

Dance, puppet, dance.

 
At 2:23 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I'm happy "Harry" is so concerned about Michigan. While he wants to whine about "welfare babies" he wants to destroy Planned Parenthood and the free birth control they distribute.

(This makes sense only to Republicans.)

Apparently they don't have access to information in Wallingford.

We know Harry the asshole troll’s idea of Michigan’s “Democrat run Liberal Plantation”.

Now "Just the facts".

Senate: Republican since 1985

House: Republican for all but 6 years since 1995

The entire Michigan government has been Republican since 2011

Better blame Alinsky and Obama.

 
At 8:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Here's what struck me," said Susan Page of USA Today, "when I read the coverage in the Des Moines Register this morning. Jennifer Jacobs, who's been on your show, was covering this last night. Big demonstrations outside of young people for O'Malley and Hillary Clinton. She went up to the Clinton supporters -- these are protesters for Clinton -- and they were told they were not allowed to [speak to] a reporter."

Page continued, "Now, why in the world would the campaign tell their own supporters who came out to campaign in favor Hillary Clinton ... these are the young people, college kids, for Hillary, and they've been told they can't talk to reporters. Why in the world would you do that?

"This raises some warning flags for Hillary Clinton campaign that is trying to control their supporters."

 
At 8:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

American teen employment has dropped 20 percent from the late 1980s, in part because more and more immigrants have flooded into the market to displace native-born kids from jobs in percentages far higher than on adults, according to the Federal Reserve.

Why does the Democrat Party hate American so much?

 
At 9:34 PM, Anonymous Harry from Wallingford, CT said...

"LOL Chauncey's late father was a WWII vet."

"Dance, puppet, dance."

I don't know who Chauncey is and will never read his/her blog.

Howard Zinn was also a WWII vet but was also a socialist asshole.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/07/lies-the-debunkers-told-me-how-bad-history-books-win-us-over/260251/
Earlier this month, George Mason University's History News Network asked readers to vote for the least credible history book in print. The top pick was David Barton's right-wing reimagining of our third president, Jefferson's Lies: Exposing the Myths You've Always Believed about Thomas Jefferson. But just nine votes behind was the late Howard Zinn's left-wing epic, A People's History of the United States. Bad history, it turns out, transcends political divides.

If these books seem an unlikely pair, they also have a good deal in common. Both flatter their readers by promising to let them in on hidden truths of which most people, and most experts, are unaware. Both offer stark, simplistic accounts (buttressed, in Barton's case, by a litany of historical errors). And both undermine the notion that the past can be rationally interrogated, debated, and revised by people from opposite sides of the ideological spectrum.


But people like Dave Dubya will chug the koolaid while reading "A People's History of the United States". Poor Dave is an underachiever and blames everybody else, including the Koch Brothers, for being stuck in prison.

I also get a kick out of Jefferson's Guardian. This whack job actually still believes 9/11 was an inside job. There is no medication that can fix this man. He is beyond repair.

 
At 10:27 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Harry's spin on a "socialist asshole" and the Wing Nut Barton is hilarious. I just love it when he shows us how stupid he can be.

He completely missed one key difference:

(buttressed, in Barton's case, by a litany of historical errors)

And there's your koolade folks. He keeps chuggin' that stuff like he did with the booze that killed his brain cells.

And don't we love the classic far Right, neo-liberal hate and projection?



 
At 12:47 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

I have never met anyone who has lost a job to an illegal immigrant.

HAVE YOU?

 
At 12:47 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

I have never met anyone who has lost a job to an illegal immigrant.

HAVE YOU?

 
At 9:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some 2.5 million illegal immigrants have flowed into the United States under President Obama, with 790,000 rushing in since 2013, according to a new analysis.

Calculations from the Center for Migration Studies and the Pew Research Center indicate 1.5 to 1.7 million aliens joined the illegal population from 2009 to 2013 — either overstaying a temporary visa or sneaking into the country, according to a Center for Immigration Studies report out Monday morning.

The immigration watchdog's analysis of Census Bureau data also showed that an additional 790,000 illegals entered from the middle of 2013 to May of 2015, for a total of 2.5 million new illegal immigrants since Obama took office in January of 2009. That is a rate of 300,000 to 400,000 a year.

Why don't Obama and the Democrats enforce and obey our laws? Why do they hate America?

 
At 10:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well America, that makes it official!! If Cry Baby Mozart has never met anyone who has lost a job to an illegal immigrant then it must not have ever happened!!

I wonder of Mozart believes in Mt Everest, even though he's never been to it's top?

 
At 10:26 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I can't imagine why Anonymous forgot this was a few paragraphs down from what he posted:

But the CIS report written by Steven A. Camarota, director of research, found that illegal immigration was higher under former President George W. Bush, potentially undermining the GOP's bid to sound tough on the issue. Under Bush, 500,000-600,000 illegals surged in a year.

Why does Anonymous hate the truth?

 
At 10:27 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Notice how the Boy Troll proves his maturity?

Wht he also fails to tell in his little diatribe about poor brown people, is that more are leaving than are coming in.

But facts mean little to the Boy Troll. Notice also how he never cites his sources.

 
At 11:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a piece of shit blog

 
At 1:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"potentially"

 
At 1:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"more are leaving than are coming in"

Notice also how Mozart never cites his sources.

 
At 1:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

“For the Communists can now use all the power and prestige of the Presidency of the United States to implement their plans, just as fully and even openly as they dare. They have arrived at this point by three stages.

In the first stage, Roosevelt thought he was using the Communists, to promote his personal ambitions and grandiose schemes. Of course, instead, the Communists were using him; but without his knowledge or understanding of his place in their game.

In the second stage, Truman was passively used by the Communists, with his knowledge and acquiescence, as the price he consciously paid for their making him President.

In the-third stage the Communists have installed in the Presidency a man who, for whatever reasons, appears intentionally to be carrying forward Communist aims. And who, in situations where his personal effort and participation are needed, brings to the support of those aims all of the political skill, deceptive cunning, and tremendous ability as an actor, which are his outstanding characteristics.

With regard to this third man, Eisenhower, it is difficult to avoid raising the question of deliberate treason. For his known actions and apparent purposes certainly suggest the possibility of treason to the United States, no matter how he may rationalize it to himself as loyalty to an international dream..”

– Robert W. Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, The Politician.

 
At 2:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't imagine why Dave Dumbya didn't go down a few more paragraphs and report this from the same article he quotes from.

Other points in the CIS report released Monday:

— Had the United States not allowed so many new illegal immigrants to settle in the country since 2009, the total number of illegal immigrants would have fallen by 2.5 million. But the arrival of so many new illegal immigrants offset this attrition in the illegal population.

— While the level of new illegal immigration is lower than a decade ago, the enormous ongoing scale of illegal immigration is a clear indication that the United States has not come close to controlling it.

— Prior research indicates that roughly half a million illegal immigrants return home on their own each year, are deported, die, or get permanent residence. Those who get legal status each year are not beneficiaries of the president's administrative amnesty known as DACA — which does not give permanent residence, but does provide Social Security numbers, work authorization, and identity documents. Rather it has been long-standing policy to allow those who violate immigration laws to still get green cards (permanent residency) if they qualify in one of the legal immigration categories such as marrying a U.S. citizen.

Why do liberals hate the truth and America?


 
At 2:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

“For the Communists can now use all the power and prestige of the Presidency of the United States to implement their plans, just as fully and even openly as they dare. They have arrived at this point by three stages.

In the first stage, Roosevelt thought he was using the Communists, to promote his personal ambitions and grandiose schemes. Of course, instead, the Communists were using him; but without his knowledge or understanding of his place in their game.

In the second stage, Truman was passively used by the Communists, with his knowledge and acquiescence, as the price he consciously paid for their making him President.

In the-third stage the Communists have installed in the Presidency a man who, for whatever reasons, appears intentionally to be carrying forward Communist aims. And who, in situations where his personal effort and participation are needed, brings to the support of those aims all of the political skill, deceptive cunning, and tremendous ability as an actor, which are his outstanding characteristics.

With regard to this third man, Eisenhower, it is difficult to avoid raising the question of deliberate treason. For his known actions and apparent purposes certainly suggest the possibility of treason to the United States, no matter how he may rationalize it to himself as loyalty to an international dream..”

– Robert W. Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, The Politician.

Why do right-wing nutjobs hate Eisenhower?

 
At 4:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BOSTON HERALD
Deportation orders failed to oust two illegal immigrants who are now up on drug charges and under investigation in the July 4 shooting death of a Lawrence grandmother — in an alarming case that critics say illustrates a revolving immigration door with dangerous consequences.

Dominican Republic nationals Wilton Lara-Calmona and Jose M. Lara-Mejia were arrested on drug charges by police investigating the shooting death of Mirta Rivera, 41. The Lawrence nurse was killed in her sleep by a gunshot fired through the ceiling from an upstairs apartment, where both men lived.

But Immigration and Customs Enforcement records reviewed by the Herald show the men shouldn’t have been in the country in the first place.

Lara-Calmona, 38, was deported in April 2012 and arrested for re-entering the country last November, the records show.

Lara-Mejia, 35, was nabbed crossing the border in August 2013 and ordered deported in April 2014, but had remained in the country illegally.

ICE spokesman Shawn Neudauer confirmed that Lara-Mejia “was ordered removed by a federal immigration judge on April 9, 2014, after failing to appear before the immigration court. He was considered an ICE fugitive until his July 4, 2015, arrest by local authorities in Lawrence, Massachusetts.”

Rivera’s shocking shooting death — killed as she lay in her bed — comes as the country’s immigration policies are under renewed scrutiny. Only days before the Lawrence shooting, an illegal immigrant previously deported five times allegedly shot and killed a young woman walking on a busy San Francisco pier with her father.

“Basically we’re hanging a huge ‘welcome back,’ sign for them,” said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies with the Center for Immigration Studies. “Illegal immigrants who have already been deported see a reason to come back because they are not afraid of immigration enforcement once they get here.”

But according to Vaughan, lax immigration enforcement is the reason two of those three were in the apartment full of drugs and gunsmoke that day.

“The Obama administration is being way too generous and allowing people who are public safety threats to remain here,” she said.

Why don't the Democrats and Obama obey the laws they swore to uphold?
Why do they hate America?

 
At 4:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do members of the Obama administration think they are above the law?

Jeh Johnson, the secretary of homeland security, and 28 of his senior staffers have been using private Web-based e-mail from their work computers for over a year, a practice criticized by cyber security experts and advocates of government transparency.

The department banned such private e-mail on DHS computers in April 2014. Top DHS officials were granted informal waivers, according to a top DHS official who said that he saw the practice as a national security risk. The official said the exempt staffers included Deputy Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, chief of staff Christian Marrone and general counsel Stevan Bunnell.

Asked about the exceptions on Monday, the DHS press secretary, Marsha Catron, confirmed that some officials had been exempted. "Going forward," she said, "all access to personal webmail accounts has been suspended."

 
At 5:26 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Wow. Sounds like the debate continues to jump all around in my absence. That said, after reading most of the comments in the interim of my absence, I really only have one comment that struck me as particularly interesting.

Mr. Ellis, if the government can so easily eliminate poverty by simply raising the minimum wage to $20/hour, then why shouldn’t we further help the poor and raise the federal minimum wage to $35/hour and really be of assistance to them?

 
At 6:40 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

...Or better yet, why shouldn't we LOWER minimum wage to $3/hour?

"The lower the better" seems to to be the goal of the far Right, Right?



 
At 8:30 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Dave I wasn't trying to be sarcastic with my question. Mr. Ellis suggests that $20 an hour will raise people out of poverty with a living wage. If it is as simple as that, why not raise the minimum wage to $35 an hour and make things comfortable for them? What are the limiting factors, if any, that would prevent us from doing that?

 
At 9:35 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

What are the limiting factors, if any, that would prevent us from doing that?

It's called wage suppression. Remember "trickle down"? It didn't. In fact, it trickled up.

According to the National Employment Law Project:

Since January 2011, legislators from 31 states have introduced 105 bills reflecting ALEC’s “model” legislation designed to suppress the wages of low-paid workers in the United States — these bills aimed to repeal state minimum wage laws, reduce minimum wage rates for youth and tipped workers, weaken overtime compensation policies, and prevent local governments from establishing living wage ordinances. Of these 105 bills, 67 were directly sponsored or co-­‐sponsored by ALEC-­‐affiliated legislators from 25 different states.

The persistent introduction of legislation to weaken or repeal wage standards drains the political momentum behind improving wages and workplace standards for low-paid workers by forcing a defensive fight over protecting the standards that already exist.


As I noted, the lower the better is the Right's way.

So my question is, how low is low enough for ALEC and the economic elites?

As wealth increases, empathy decreases, and the wealthy decide everything these days.

 
At 10:05 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Changing the subject from my questions is not a good debating tactic, Dave. It looks like you are scared to answer me. I truly want to know why we cannot raise the minimum wage so that everyone is middle class, if it is as simple as that.

 
At 12:33 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

I truly want to know why we cannot raise the minimum wage so that everyone is middle class, if it is as simple as that.

Look, I'm not discussing your exaggerated and hypothetical $35/hr. We've seen this straw man all the time from the Right's echo chamber. "Why not $100/hr?" etc.

I'm presenting the reality of wage suppression.

So my question is, how low is low enough for ALEC and the economic elites? The Kochs want to abolish minimum wage entirely. We are letting the servants of mammon decide what the least of us can earn.

As wealth increases, empathy decreases, and the wealthy decide everything these days.

 
At 8:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis,
what if the employees best effort is not good enough to get the work done as needed, what happens then?

What's you answer Dumbya, since Ellis has all at once became mute?

"As wealth increases, empathy decreases"

"Wage suppression"

What a crock of B.S., typical leftist slogans vs reality.
Like White Privilege and if you like your Dr you can keep them.

 
At 8:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's next:
"If you like a non nuclear Iran
You can keep a non nuclear Iran"?

Pure drivel.

 
At 10:25 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

"As wealth increases, empathy decreases"

"Wage suppression"

What a crock of B.S., typical leftist slogans vs reality.

Proof that there is no empathy in reality-denying far Right authoritarian personalities.

 
At 10:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let them eat cake!

 
At 11:03 AM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Look at what businesses in the liberal bastion of Seattle are doing now that they have foolishly raised the minimum wage to $15/hour there. This wage is not sustainable for the small mom and pop businesses to pay their employees. The result is that they hire less people, or even fire some of the ones they have because, unlike the federal government, real businesses cannot operate in a deficit for months on end, let alone years and decades. To pay for that doubling of the minimum wage, Mom & Pop have to either double their prices or cut the number of their employees by 50%. Do you think that helps the poor as the unemployment rate goes up?

Further, those that still do have a job at the now-higher minimum wage will have to pay far more of their salary to fill up their gas tank and buy a Big Mac and everything else they do, because while the Mom & Pop businesses won’t be able to compete and will likely close, those huge corporations like Wal-Mart that you hate will still be around, albeit by passing those new labor costs on to the consumer. That $15 or $20/hour will go just as far as the $7.50/hour did for them because the cost of everything will go up. I do not understand why simply economics like this seems to baffle progressives.

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to sustain a family upon. It is meant as a starting wage for an unskilled worker in order to gain skills and experience and thereby increase his/her wages accordingly. If you are a person in his forties, trying to raise a family on minimum wage, perhaps you should devote some effort into acquiring more marketable skills or you should have worked a little harder in high school to get all the benefits possible out of your education.

Further, many of the union contracts have clauses that pay their members a salary that is a given fixed value above minimum wage, so increasing minimum wage there will also increase salaries and thereby prices of goods and services provided by union labor on top of that.

 
At 11:04 AM, Blogger T. Paine said...

As for your meme of empathy decreasing as wealth increases, I am glad that I don’t live in your world. Most of the wealthy people I know donate large sums of money and time to help those that are less fortunate. As I have become more financially stable over the past twenty years, my work with multiple charities with my time and money has drastically increased too. I remember what it was like to be poor and struggling. The fact that God has blessed me means that I have an obligation to help those that are unable to help themselves. It doesn’t mean that I should have to help those that don’t want to try and provide for themselves and simply want a hand-out. What we subsidize we will always get more of. If we help the poor to help themselves, they retain their dignity and learn how to improve their lives with our help. If we simply give hand-outs, they hands will always be out for more.

Regarding your favorite boogeymen, the Kochs, I don’t know if they and others are actively working for wage suppression or not. I suppose as good businessmen, they want to attract the best workers possible at the lowest salary possible. Labor costs are typically the highest budget line item in a business. If an employee is very valuable to that business, it makes sense to pay him or her a good salary in order to keep them happy and productive. If an employee is an unskilled laborer, he should not be paid but a minimal salary until he has proven to be more valuable to the company. As their worth as an employee increases, so should their salary.

The whole class warfare nonsense is counterproductive and is nothing more than a political ploy. I am not harmed by how many billions Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, or the Koch brothers make. Frankly, it is usually a net-positive for the economy as a whole when even the “evil rich” do well. Most of them don’t simply put those billions of dollars into the bank to sit upon and run their fingers through. They reinvest that money into other ventures to create even more money. This creates jobs for you and me, Dave. I have yet to ever have been offered a job by a poor man. How about you? Instead of hating and envying the rich, I am happy for other’s financial success if they have obtained it legally and morally. That is good for all of us. It is too bad that so many progressives want to punish those that have created wealth instead of working hard to create their own wealth. It sounds like misdirected energy to me.

 
At 12:29 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Seattle hasn’t’ raised the minimum wage to $15 yet. It is to be phased in. I think restaurants are having the hardest time as they are to eliminate tips. I would exclude them from the mandate, but find a way by going back to tips and wages to meet the goal. Personally I’d spread out the increments of raises. We shall see.

One thing for certain, the money paid to workers is immediately recycled into the economy. Better there than in the pockets of those who have more than they and their children can spend in a lifetime.

Minimum wage is not meant to be an income to sustain a family upon.

“Meant” by whom? Reality says otherwise. The Walmart model is not just teenagers with temporary jobs, in case you haven’t been there.

If your business plan requires employees to need food stamps and medicare then you should NOT be in business. YOU and I are paying what Walmart does NOT pay. It is just another form of corporate welfare.

I hate to point this out, but you repeat Right Wing FOX talking points without bothering to back them up with evidence.

As for your meme of empathy decreasing as wealth increases,

It’s not a “meme” when substantiated by numerous studies.

The Money-Empathy Gap

http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

Jeb’s advice for Americans to work longer hours is the neo-aristocratic view that exemplifies this tendency. Note nobody says that no rich person has empathy. It is an observable tendency. However, if you don't want to see it, then don't open your eyes. A tax-deductible charity isn't the same as empathy. Al Capone was charitable at times, right?

How about a quote from Trump showing his empathy for the poor and low wage earners?

See what I mean?

Just because you are “not harmed” by the actions of billionaires buying politicians, doesn’t mean nobody is harmed. Open your eyes, if you have empathy for those being harmed. Close them if you want to keep repeating the dogma.

Kochs, I don’t know if they and others are actively working for wage suppression or not.

They have clearly stated their wish to eliminate all minimum wages. Maybe before you call them my “boogie man” you should educate yourself on their level of empathy.

The whole class warfare nonsense is counterproductive and is nothing more than a political ploy.

You are blind to the reality that Warren Buffet openly acknowledges. The Kochs are pulling the strings of the GOP, but that’s not a “political ploy” is it?

Obviously you don’t know any union workers who have lost their rights to collective bargaining for pay and working conditions. You believe unions are bad. The Kochs agree, and it means more money and political power for them.

Your faith in the “job creators” is just what they love, as the kill off unions, cut benefits, and off-shore jobs, and BUY the government.

I suggest you listen to the Pope, He knows about Mammon, aka the “Free market” god, and it’s damage.

Instead of hating and envying the rich

If you're going to play that card, then you obviously hate the poor. You revere the wealthy and see wealth as virtue and low pay as vice.

See what that looks like? Cut out with the demonization. I don't hate or envy anybody.

But I do hate injustice, too big to fail, and the "privileged entitlement" of our neo-aristocracy to subvert and suppress democracy to control our government.

I have a feeling I've said this before, yet the "You hate the rich" always comes back.

 
At 2:26 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

T. Paine, class warfare has been around since the beginning of civilization. It stems from the belief that humans are not created equal, that some for whatever reason deem themselves better or more worthy of life than others. It's real and I doubt the wealthy people you say that you know do not feel this way.
Your example of Seattle is exactly why I say that a living wage might have to be subsidized with regard to small businesses or at least compensated for in the form of a tax credit. You ask why not $35 an hour ? First of all let's call it a living wage and not a minimum wage. The only sense it is minimum would be that it is the least that an Amerikan can comfortably live on. The $20 an hour figure is merely what I believe is necessary for one to afford food, clothing, housing, healthcare, retirement savings and needed leisure/vacation time. What standard of living should hard working Amerikans expect ? Life in a slum tenement eating beans and Ramen Noodles with maybe a night dining out eating McShit ? Should everyone live in excess eating caviar, lobster and prime rib while they reside in a McMansion ?
You make a point about people bettering themselves to gain income etc. Much easier said than done in today's Amerika. That whole issue revolves around education or the lack thereof. Our society does a terrible job of educating people and providing the training and skill acquisition needed to find gainful employment. The education system we have only serves the purpose of brainwashing and conditioning our young people to be good little robots unable to think critically and certainly not able to question and rebel against authority. This is where the problem begins. Back in my day we questioned everything and protested against our oppressors as we had a Constitutional right to do. Today the sheeple swallow all the bullshit they are feed hook, line and sinker.
I also want to address the question of Anonymous regarding what if one's best effort isn't good enough to get the job done ? Well, such a person is obviously being given the wrong job. If you can't hit 95 mph fastballs then you can't be a professional baseball player, find a line of work your skills are more suited for. If you have no skills ? That is the fault of a society with misplaced values, one that favors the wealthy and tries to maintain the status quo as its main objective.

 
At 2:42 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Yes I know, should have read fed, not feed sorry !!

 
At 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lindsey (closet queen) Graham called Obama Neville Chamberlain this morning on CBS.

Obama is a truly talented man. How many of us can hope to be Neville Chamberlain and Adolph Hitler?

 
At 4:34 PM, Blogger The New York Crank said...

Reagan had a smidgeon of gravitas? Are you kidding me? Or are you referring to Ronnie and Nancy conferring with astrologers?

Yours very crankily,
The New York Crank

 
At 4:38 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

Ellis-
“The education system we have only serves the purpose of brainwashing and conditioning our young people to be good little robots unable to think critically and certainly not able to question and rebel against authority.”

So, you can actually look around you and feel that our society has a problem with rebelling against authority? And that we have “good little robots”? I see the exact opposite, in a sense. I think the modern American has taken the concept of secular “liberty” to mean essentially unbridled personal autonomy (and for good reason – it’s quite logical). I see very little respect for ANY authority anymore, from any part of the political spectrum. The concept of authority has been undermined to the point where there is no longer rebellion – there simply isn’t the feeling that authority is a valid concept. That is why you see the “social contract” in the midst of a massive breakdown today – the moral basis for it is daily chipped away at. So, a business major, while learning the ABC’s of business, economics, etc. is also picking up the concepts of materialism and humanism in the local university. He learns he was not created (and neither were you) by a moral authority, and that the here is now is what you have. He leaves confused at best and downright amoral at worst, if he had no grounding otherwise.

So, to turn it back around to you… why should the filthy rich men who would take advantage of the rest of us not rebel against the authority that YOU would construct that would restrain their wills? Seems to me they’ve learned better than having to follow your arbitrary moral authority that you would claim you don’t exploit the poor for your own gain. They say “not in my mind – I’m my own man –not your good little robot”. You can’t throw the rules away and then cry foul when the other player doesn’t follow the rules.

Ultimately, if there is no Authority, then there is no authority. Authority is a meaningless concept in a secular society. The literal meaning of the word tells you that. Without an author with prerogative, there is no authority. So, the libertine, unhindered by God, gropes for meaning in authority. He doesn’t rebel against it – he punches in the air trying to find it. He ultimately must conclude it doesn’t exist. He ultimately must decide that it is himself.

 
At 5:18 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

If I may.

Authority is a meaningless concept in a secular society.

Only if you believe that the rule of law, legal system, and Constitution are not the final authority in the country.

And who are the guilty in escaping the Constitution and rule of law? Look to our fearless political and economic leaders.

How about a president who can start wars based on lies about Saddam being in cahoots with al-Qaeda until 70% of population is brainwashed into believing it?

The liars became the final authority over life and death. They even imposed torture to go along with their war of choice for crony profit and political capital.

Then came the president who can be judge, jury and executioner by drones.

And then there are those who have the best justice money can buy. Too big to fail banks with rich managers are still unaccountable for their swindles on a global scale.

Authority is now up for grabs for the most current authoritarians in positions of power and influence. THAT is the authority we question, but we get attacked from the far Right as “hating America” or more recently, “hating and envying the rich”.

Those who get away with violating the authority of law and Constitution represent the authority we oppose and question.

We don’t need religion to inform us. Many of the usurpers of authority wrap themselves in religion, the flag, and morality.

And yes, our population is most certainly being trained to not question that authority.

“You’re either with us or against us.” - The Authoritarian Decider

 
At 5:25 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

Ok, so a handful of rich men from 250 years ago are your authority, then?
From where did they derive the authority to be your authority? They didn't. It was arbitrary. Why shouldn't Machiavellian presidents push against THAT authority structure? Why shouldn't the elites push against the laws of man; the laws of "nature's god"? Why should they magically accept your own version of valid authority?

I'm not questioning your morality - I'm questioning your philosophy.

 
At 7:15 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Ok, so a handful of rich men from 250 years ago are your authority, then?

That is not what I said.

From where did they derive the authority to be your authority?

They won a revolution, and were elected to govern. THAT was where they derived their authority to write a constitution. THEY are not the authority and never made such a claim.

The Constitution is the ultimate authority of our land, not the Bible.

It's not philosophy, it is fact.

Once a government bases its authority on the Deity of the politically powerful, it becomes theocracy. There's good reason we don't have a religious test for the politically powerful.

THAT is one reason why we thank those men from 250 years ago. Sadly their vision of a democratic representative republic has been corrupted beyond repair.

For all practical purposes, our national god is wealth. In greed we trust may as well be our motto. Mammon in the form of the so-called "free market" is revered as an infallible god, and the wealthy servants of mammon are allowed to influence elections, buy politicians, and run the show.

The operating principle of the Right may as well be the notion the rich are too poor and the poor are too rich. Wage suppression, slashing of safety nets, gross wealth inequality, and "free speech" of wealth are accomplishing just that agenda. Even the Pope can plainly see this.

We the people are secondary, and inferior, to "We the corporations" now. This is how much our Constitution has been subverted by influence of wealth.

The wealthy spend their money in elections and politics for a reason. It's not for the general welfare, and it's not for regulation of commerce. It is corruption in service of the elite few over the interests of the vast majority.

Money was also "free speech" in aristocracy and a feudal society of lords and serfs. That is where we're headed.

The rulers of Iran base their authority on God. We tried that "philosophy" and that is why women were hung as witches.

God is a personal moral authority and must be kept so, for there are as many notions of God and His will as there are men.

You don't have to be a Christian or Muslim or a Jew to have a morality that says killing and theft are wrong. Not that this has stopped innumerable Jews, Muslims, and Christians from doing just that. Yes, there are atheists with stronger morals than many Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

God aint gonna come down to smite and stop the wrongdoers for us. This is why we need Constitutional rule of law as our final authority. When the wealthy neo-aristocrats have more power than government, nothing can stop their lawlessness. That is called corruption.

And they're winning, aren't they? Obama the "Marxist" is shilling for their corporate written trade agreement while keeping it all secret. Some commie, eh? No wonder the far Right is seen as a crazed cult. At least many liberals are outspoken against this corruption.

That is my philosophy. Feel free to ask questions. I'm not an authoritarian who demands silence and obedience.

 
At 7:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you have no skills ? That is the fault of a society with misplaced values, one that favors the wealthy and tries to maintain the status quo as its main objective."

Skills are a "misplaced value"? Do you want the unskilled surgeon to operate on you or the skilled on? Who should command the most for their skill?

Are all humans born with the ability/skill to be a brain surgeon? If not, is that the fault of the wealthy?
A very insightful look at the thinking of today's liberal. All should receive the same wage, is that what your saying Ellis? For different labor? How very communistic of you

Where's your proof Dumbya? Can you read the minds and therefore can tell us what they thin and how they feel?

 
At 10:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NEW YORK — The latest indictment against a former state Senate Republican leader says he pressured a malpractice insurance company that wanted to discuss legislation with him into hiring his son and then supported his son after he bragged to his new boss that he didn't have to show up for work because of his father's powerful post.

In the newest allegations, prosecutors said a malpractice insurance administrator was lobbying Dean Skelos in 2012 about legislation critical to its business when he began repeatedly soliciting its chief executive to direct money to his son.

The indictment said Adam Skelos asked the executive for a full-time job when he and his father attended a political fundraising event in August 2012, saying he needed income and health insurance benefits. The executive told Dean Skelos later that day he had agreed to help Adam Skelos with a job and the father thanked him, the indictment said.

But Adam Skelos failed to report to the $78,000-a-year position almost from the start, showing up for no more than one hour for four days of his first week, the indictment said.

When a supervisor called to discuss his schedule, Adam Skelos threatened to "smash in" the supervisor's head and told him he would "never amount to anything," the court papers said. They added that Adam Skelos also told the supervisor he did not have to go to work regularly because his father was Senate leader.

Prosecutors say Dean Skelos then called the company's chief executive, demanding to know why the supervisor had "harassed" his son. They added that the executive told Dean Skelos that his son had not shown up for work, had verbally abused his supervisor and had told fellow employees that he was entitled to special treatment because of his father.

According to the indictment, Dean Skelos told the executive he needed to resolve any issues the supervisor had with his son so he could remain employed. Prosecutors said Adam Skelos worked for three or more hours only on five days during four months with the company.

The indictment returned Tuesday in Manhattan federal court boosted charges against 67-year-old Dean Skelos and 33-year-old Adam Skelos, who now face eight counts, including new extortion and bribery charges.

Allegations regarding what the government said turned into a no-show job added its portrayal of the men as bullies who used the elder Skelos' position for financial gain. Authorities had already alleged that at least $300,000 was illegally steered to the son, including $200,000 between November 2012 and last April by an environmental technology company that was threatened with losing a significant contract with Nassau County if the son wasn't paid as a consultant.

Dean Skelos was the state's most powerful Republican when he was arrested in May.

 
At 12:06 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

Mozart,

Hillary is sinking like a rock! Soon you will be able to buy her book for 50 cent!

 
At 1:29 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

Hillary is ahead of every GOP candidate by a wide margin.

 
At 3:34 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Dave D. explained the origin of authority very well. I would like to add a bit about the social contract that has been mentioned. After the Constitution and civil and criminal laws are in place, the social contract is what binds the government and the citizenry to adhere to the Constitution and said laws. Without getting too deep into first year law school contract law principles, one must understand that for any contract to be or remain enforceable there must be what is know as " consideration " backing the contract. Simplified, consideration is the presence of a benefit or detriment flowing to the parties in contract in the carrying out of the terms and conditions of the contract. That said, it seems to me that what we are experiencing in Amerika today is what is known as " a failure of consideration. "
By this I mean that with all social programs and safety nets etc. under attack and being lessened or removed totally there is no longer consideration flowing from the establishment ( government ) to the citizenry, which renders the contract no longer enforceable. As a result citizens are theoretically no longer obligated to adhere to their end of the bargain. While no court has declared the social contract null and void I think We The People in our minds ( those who have critically thinking minds ) have realized this and feel that the social contract at this point is a one way street in favor of the establishment. So yes Harley, We The People actually now are within our rights to no longer abide by and allow oppressive intrusions into our lives by the establishment. That's it in a nutshell...

 
At 7:47 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

More bad news for the Republican Party: The economy is expected to be chug chugging right along for the 2016 presidential election, and a good economy further hurts its crappy chances.

In a New York Times survey of 17 economists, the consensus view was that unemployment would be the lowest it has been during an election since 2000, when it stood at 3.9 percent. The median forecast for the unemployment rate when voters go to the polls in November 2016 is 4.8 percent, down from 5.3 percent last month. The economists saw only a 15 percent chance of a recession starting by next Election Day, while interest rates, inflation and gasoline prices will be slightly higher than they are now, but quite low by historical standards.

 
At 7:51 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

Jeb Bush, whose message (whatever it is) is among those getting trampled by Trump, was quick to defend McCain, but any sense of outrage was AWOL 10 years ago when Bush praised Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that led the slanderous (there's that word again) attacks questioning the Vietnam service record of Kerry, who commanded a swift boat (think Apocalypse Now, kiddies) and received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.

"As someone who truly understands the risk of standing up for something, I simply cannot express in words how much I value their willingness to stand up against John Kerry," Bush wrote in a January 2005 letter regarding the group's anti-Kerry offensive. "Their efforts, like their service to their country, speak volumes about what matters most."

But wait! There's more:

In 1972, Jeb! drew number 26 in the Vietnam draft lottery, which likely meant his induction the following year and the prospect of a trip to the Big Muddy. He then told his parents, George H.W. and Barbara, that he might file for draft-exempt conscientious objector status in order to avoid the draft as well as protect his privileged status. (Let's not forget that Vietnam was an internal class war as much as it was a war against the Red Menace.)

According to one Bush family biography, Babs and her husband, himself a World War II hero and ardent Vietnam War hawk, assured young Bush that they supported him. As it turned out, the U.S. began its withdrawal from Vietnam the next year and the draft lottery was ended, so Bush skated.

 
At 8:26 PM, Anonymous Hillary Clintoon said...

Help fellow progressives!

"I've fallen, and I can't get up!"

 
At 8:35 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/17/its_time_to_draft_al_gore_if_democrats_want_to_win_its_clear_neither_hillary_nor_sanders_is_the_way/

It’s time to draft Al Gore: If Democrats want to win, it’s clear neither Hillary nor Sanders is the way

Hillary's flailing. Biden's grieving. Bernie's a longshot. Gore bridges the party's establishment, progressives




lol,lol. The Democrats are starting to shit their pants!

 
At 11:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joe,
Hillary is ahead of every GOP candidate by a wide margin.

CNN said she was behind in swing states today.

 
At 8:42 AM, Anonymous Joe said...

Report: Fox News' Roger Ailes And Boss Rupert Murdoch Fighting Over Trump Coverage

While Fox News continues to promote and defend Donald Trump's presidential campaign, other parts of Rupert Murdoch's media empire and Murdoch himself have criticized the candidate in what appears to be an internal proxy war.

lol,lol. The Krapublicans are starting to shit their pants!

 
At 9:26 AM, Anonymous Joe said...

Trump May Consider Third Party Run: 'The RNC Has Not Been Supportive'

Donald Trump on Wednesday hinted that he may run as a third-party candidate if he continues to be treated poorly by the Republican National Committee.

"The RNC has not been supportive. They were always supportive when I was a contributor. I was their fair-haired boy," he told The Hill in an interview published Thursday morning. "The RNC has been, I think, very foolish."

Trump said he would continue to monitor the race and how the Republican party acts toward him.


lol,lol. The Krapublicans are starting to shit their pants!

 
At 2:35 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

Well, not exactly, Ellis.

So, justification was (1) won revolution and (2) public election of leaders.

If one person does not have the right to assert his moral authority, it is arbitrary if not dubious to claim that a group of people do any more than the individual. That just becomes tyranny of the masses. For example, does a street gang or an organized crime syndicate (who “democratically” affirm their “constitutions”) have that right? So far as they can defend it, you’d have to say they do. Well, unless you want to invoke one of the absolutes that we mostly all share, which is you don’t use violence against innocent people. You don’t commit murder. …part of your “consideration”. Consideration involves agreed to maxims that are agreed to ostensibly because they are absolute (or use whatever term is comfortable in a post-modern mind). If they are not absolute, then no one has the right to claim them as material or binding. In fact, they could be construed as infringing my rights, especially within the context of a society that allows itself to define or redefine norms – like ours. Also, I would bet a year’s salary the framers would (disregarding the morality of the issue) not be for the fed forcing the marriage issue on the states – well maybe a handful would, but not the majority. Even Lincoln, the assumed civil rights champion, was not as racially enlightened as most think. His goal was preservation of the union – not preservation of individual rights. And that certainly flying in the face of the commonly held “moral constitution” of the southern states and desire to form a government that suited their own desires. What was good for the goose, was not good for the gander. And, don’t get me wrong, I detest what they stood for.

As for the American Revolution that was begun and won (oddly enough by a group of what today would be called “one percenters”) I find that to be irrelevant. All revolutions are not created equal for starters. And, even our revolution included complex and questionable issues. England had valid claims as did we. Might doesn’t make right I think we’d all agree. And whether we were “right or wrong” is up for debate. And, in no way would victory contribute to authority.

So, no, I don’t think DD justified or pointed to any valid source of authority. In fact his justification begs more questions than it answers.

Good discussion, though.

 
At 3:05 PM, Blogger T. Paine said...

Interesting commentary Harley! I am glad to see some sophistication in the debate and discussion instead of simple sophomoric tactics. Kudos to you, Ellis, and Dubya.

 
At 3:13 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Harley, the obligation to obey laws etc. stems from the social contract ( though admittedly it is a contract of adhesion ). The reason that there has been a failure of consideration for the social contract is the very corruption that Dave D. refers to in his comment. This isn't about gangs and murder, it's about the establishment being no longer willing to play by the rules and provide for the health, safety and welfare of the citizenry.

 
At 4:21 PM, Anonymous Harry from Wallingford, CT said...

" I am glad to see some sophistication in the debate and discussion instead of simple sophomoric tactics. "







But simple sophomoric tactics are all I have.

 
At 4:52 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Harley,
I'm fairly certain most would agree the final legal authority in a constitutional democratic representative republic is the Constitution.

If you claim the Constitution is not a valid source of authority in the US, please enlighten us on your reasoning for this.

We understand your personal moral authority is the Bible. We're not disagreeing with that.

You used the word authority without definition, so that leaves us with a flexible interpretation. The authors of the Constitution had authority to draft it. The president has authority to enforce it and the Supreme Court has the authority to interpret it. You can say it is God-given, but it would not have happened without the revolution and election of the authors by consent of the governed.

Do you know how many one-percenters were on Lexington Green that morning of April 19th?

Anyone with sufficient power can claim "divine right of kings", but that doesn't mean their authority was God given. But authority is what they had. Thankfully the founders saw through that scam.

You seem to have trouble understanding how others can have a moral foundation without holding to your religious beliefs. Am I correct?

Hypothetically, I would also bet a year's salary the founders would re-word the Second Amendment today too.

This is why they didn't claim to be the final authority, and provided for the amendment process to the Constitution.

 
At 8:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

CNN said Hillary was behind in swing states today.

The Democrats are "starting to shit their pants"!

How much pull does Hillary Clinton have with the press? Politico´s Dylan Beyers noticed a subtile, but monumental change to an article in the New York Times this morning that altered the entire thrust of the piece. The State Department´s inspector general is requesting a criminal investigation into Hillary Clinton´s outside email accounts because he suspects that hundreds of classified documents were stored on the server. Without explanation or notice, the Times changed the focus of the article. The New York Times made small but significant changes to an exclusive reportabout a potential criminal investigation into Hillary Clinton´s State Department email account

The New York Times made small but significant changes to an exclusive reportabout a potential criminal investigation into Hillary Clinton's State Department email account late Thursday night, but provided no notification of or explanation for of the changes.

The paper initially reported that two inspectors general have asked the Justice Department to open a criminal investigation "into whether Hillary Rodham Clinton mishandled sensitive government information on a private email account she used as secretary of state."

That clause, which cast Clinton as the target of the potential criminal probe, was later changed: the inspectors general now were asking for an inquiry "into whether sensitive government information was mishandled in connection with the personal email account Hillary Rodham Clinton used as secretary of state."

The Times also changed the headline of the story, from "Criminal Inquiry Sought in Hillary Clinton’s Use of Email" to "Criminal Inquiry Is Sought in Clinton Email Account," reflecting a similar recasting of Clinton's possible role. The article's URL was also changed to reflect the new headline.

 
At 8:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis,

Define who you mean by "the establishment".

 
At 9:21 AM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

No, Dave, I'm not saying no one CAN have a moral code of ethics without the Bible. I was broadening it to say that a materialist, atheist (not saying you are, but many progressives are) does not have any warrant to advocate for any particular moral code. One cannot logically believe that all is matter, yet somehow create out of thin air the metaphysical concepts of love, honor, loyalty, or moral codes. It is logically inconsistent and dissonant.

I absolutely believe that people do have moral codes - even those who reject God. That is actually biblical and consistent. I am not chastising them for holding to them - only pointing out that they have chosen to live in contradiction. Obviously my hope is that they would see their error.

Also, I have trouble understanding how you would say "we tried that and it failed" vis-à-vis the burning of witches. First, we never had any type of theocratic construct and Christians don't advocate for that for the most part. Also, that was not a widespread issue but a localized issue. Not unlike any other brand of kookiness that happens on a regular basis in the world. Second, I could just as easily say "we've tried the representative democracy and how's that going for you..." All of the issues we have today with the fleecing of the American public by our leadership, unjust wars, overstep of power in international affairs has taken place under the auspices of the great experiment. I don't exactly give it an A+ at the moment...

So, in your mind, the southern states that revolted (it was a failed revolution, not a civil war) were or were not warranted in what they were attempting? And, the lack of authority to do what they did was invalidated only by the fact that they lost? Because, following the revolution (had it succeeded) they would have no doubt cast a constitution, organized and elected leadership.

 
At 9:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Indiana worker fired for opposing same-sex marriage files lawsuit, predictably quotes Leviticus:

Summers says she is a Christian with a “sincerely held religious belief” against gay marriage. I hear Walmart is hiring. Maybe they won’t make her handle any shellfish?

 
At 10:26 AM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

Maybe had she quoted Romans 1:18-27 (written by a top Jewish legal scholar of his day) she'd be better off. And, she could still handle shellfish. I love that Levitical reference. Never has anything been more referenced and less understood...

 
At 12:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NBC’s John Harwood just tweeted, re Hillary’s “criminal” email investigation story at NYT:

Justice Dept official says “referral” related to Hillary Clinton’s email is NOT for a criminal investigation – contradicting earlier reports

So to recap:

The New York Times publishes a story saying that the inspector general recommends a “criminal” investigation of Hillary related to her emails.

Turns out that Hillary is NOT the target, and that the investigation is not for “criminal” activity.

Other than that, bang-up job, NYT.

 
At 2:17 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Harley:
Since your definition of authority is derived solely from the Bible, that is, apart from definitions, the end of the discussion. It is a matter of belief.

“…metaphysical concepts of love, honor, loyalty, or moral codes,” all existed before the Bible. Apart from moral codes, these are primarily emotion based, not created from thin air. They may, or may not, appear logically inconsistent and dissonant to belief systems that followed. Moral codes may be derived by emotion and/or reason and built on, and “warranted”, by social and legal consensus. Again, if “warranted” is by one’s definition Biblical, then further discussion is reduced to definitions.

All words are ultimately representational concepts created from thin air.

Yes Salem was a “localized issue”, but the theocratic and superstitious foundation was present. At the time, colonists were only localized. The Inquisition showed such a pattern on a larger scale. ISIL is doing it now.

The southern rebellion, or civil war, by definition, was “warranted”, until defined better, by the Southern political and aristocratic class in reaction to their sense of under-representation in DC and desire to continue a slave based economy, oddly not in contradiction to the Bible. Now that corporations are “persons” and money is “free speech”, 99.9% of Americans are under-represented. Not that this is the focus of our so-called “liberal” corporate media.

Civil War: a war between citizens of the same country.
Revolution: a forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system

As with “authority”, we need a mutual agreement on its context and definition to continue discussion beyond the definition. As I noted, your definition is in the Biblical sense, rejecting other definitions. So that is as far as the conversation can go when others hold a legal or social definition.

We are not a theocracy, so legal and social definitions are in effect regarding the country as a whole. This doesn’t negate one’s personal moral code, whether Biblical or not.

Atheists with a moral code are in contradiction to your beliefs, but they agree that murder and theft are wrong, by shared “authority and warrant”, or not. This is not contradiction, but concurrence.

Contradiction is also not absent from Christianity.

Christians have conflicting moral codes on capital punishment, economics, and war. At this point “authority and warrant” are back in flux.

 
At 2:31 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

Anonymous, here you go: Establishment : A group in a society exercising power and influence over matters of policy etc., which is seen as resistant to change. I think that covers the oligarchs who now own our government.

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ellis, you really aren't required to respond to every stupid question the orphanBoyTroll spits out at you. Don't you know he's trolling you?

Has he ever answered any question posed to him?

 
At 4:22 PM, Blogger Ellis D., Esq. said...

True, but no harm in defining the term.

 
At 9:30 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

DD, points are well taken.

Last thoughts since this is really off the topic...

Point I was making is that a materialist has no basis for metaphysical concepts like morality (from which authority stems). If he "feels" a morality, it can only be due to a by-product accidental consequence of some deterministic material forces and would have no true meaning. Yes, they can "feel" that it has meaning but it doesn't. To try to advocate for meaning after having defined a meaningless construct is delusional at best. Morality does, of course, exist in reality for the obvious reason. And, ironically, even the atheist cannot deny it - well except for the few honest ones. Anyway, few really care or have the patience to think through it. So, I'll shut up.

As for Civil and Revolutionary wars. Not clear cut - and semantic I realize. Both had aspects of both. The southern rebels were not interested in battling over the existing leadership - or overthrowing it. They simply wanted to secede and set up their own government and their own country. Not purely a civil war. America at the time of the revolution was a hodgepodge of English colonies, and were in a sense wresting control from them - civil war in that sense. Also, not all colonists were in favor and there was MUCH civil unrest in the years leading up to the revolution on the continent. Again, how many angels can dance... I think we're just arguing to argue now.

 
At 6:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the few honest atheists?"

Harley, your god is the sum of your fears and phobias and insecurities wrapped up in a bronze age myth.

The fact you can't conceive of anyone being moral without fearing the punishment of some imaginary deity says a lot about your morality.

 
At 11:10 PM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

Case in point.

 
At 9:49 AM, Anonymous HarleyA said...

"No, Dave, I'm not saying no one CAN have a moral code of ethics without the Bible. I was broadening it to say that a materialist, atheist (not saying you are, but many progressives are) does not have any warrant to advocate for any particular moral code."

From post previous to the one you referenced. Joining a conversation late...

 

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