Reach for the Skies, America!
From the Second Amendment:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I'm sorry, am I reading that wrong?
 |
| On American soil |
Good News: There is one less dangerous weapon available.
Bad News: In the last week America has become just a wee bit more lethal than it was the week before. Isn't that nice?
Recently our national dialogue (such as it it) has been engaged in a discussion on the "militarization" of America's police forces - not only on the left but also among the libertarian types. I understand full well the alarm that many are feeling at the prospect. But let me, just for the moment, play devil's advocate: Look at what the police in 2014 are up against. There is a huge percentage of the population that have become armed and quite dangerous. In certain parts of the country it is now cheerfully legal to carry semi-automatic, rapid-fire people-killing machines out in the open (in Texas for instance - SURPRISE!)
Remember what happened a few months ago in Nevada? When a team of rangers began to move in to evict the cattle of a rancher named Cliven Bundy from publicly-owned land they had been illegally grazing on for twenty years, an army of those half-witted militia assholes moved in to "defend" Mr. Bundy's "rights". What exactly those "rights" were they never made clear to no one's surprise. Some of these yahoos had brought their women and children with them. Fearing a bloodbath, the rangers were forced to back off. When one takes into consideration the horrifying possibility of what might have transpired it was the wise thing to do. The problem is that these fools got a propaganda boost that has made them crazier than they already were. "See?", they're saying to anyone who will listen, "We took on the big, bad gub'ment and we won!" Many of them then headed down to the Mexican border to "protect" America from the flood of children fleeing drug violence and right wing dictatorships in Central America.
A FRIENDLY MEMO FOR FOREIGNERS:
`
You're out of your fucking minds if you bring your loved ones on a vacation to the "Land of the Free". We're not free at all. In fact we are now a nation of sheep being held hostage at gunpoint. I just thought you should know.
Of course this all makes for very amusing copy. It really is a funny thing to behold a once mighty nation in the throes of willful self-destruction - and I don't mean solely on the issue of guns. When a people consistently vote against their better interests and then wonder why they are falling into the abyss, that's always good for a giggle. I'm completely serious when I say that the fall of America is the funniest thing I've ever had the joy to witness in my fifty-six years of life on this planet. I don't want to see this country destroyed, but it's going to happen regardless of what I think. In fact it's happening right before our very eyes. I might as well sit back and make the most of the ride into oblivion. I'll be making some tasty lemonade out of this barrel of nasty tasting lemons. Cynical you say? Yeah, maybe. I look at it this way: We're given two choices in life - to either laugh or cry. I choose the former. So sue me.In closing and for the record, I'm against the militarization of the nation's police force. But (for the time being anyway) I'm gonna give the poor sods the benefit of the doubt. They're up against a potential uprising of homicidal jackasses with beer bellies, low IQ's and bad breath. Can you blame them for being a tad paranoid? I can't.
Get used to living in a nation in ruins.
Oh yeah, and keep voting with the conservatives.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED VIEWING:
Bowling for Columbine
a film by Michael Moore
It's already a classic and should be viewed by every thinking American. You can get it for a good price on Amazon. Get it?
posted by Tom Degan @ 7:17 AM
143 comments
143 Comments:
"They're up against a potential uprising of homicidal jackasses with beer bellies, low IQ's and bad breath."
Sounds like:
a. reunion of Occupy Wall Street
b. Chicago
c. America's southern border.
What form of mental illness considers OWS "homicidal jackasses"? LOL!
Ignorance is strength on the far Right.
Speaking of the far Right homicidal jackasses, aka "Tim McVeigh Patriots", two Bundy militia supporters Amanda Miller and Jerad Miller started their "revolution" by murdering a cop and an innocent bystander.
How many did OWS kill? None, of course, but the Right and reality have parted company long ago.
In fact, the radical Right has been the real terror threat .
Sovereign citizen, Islamist extremist and militia/patriot groups are perceived by law enforcement agencies to pose the greatest threats to their communities, according to a new START study.
The National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) was established in 2005 as a U.S. Department of Homeland Security Center of Excellence, tasked with utilizing state-of-the-art theories, methods, and data from the social and behavioral sciences to improve the understanding of the origins, dynamics, and social and psychological impacts of terrorism.
START was awarded a 3-year renewal grant from DHS in 2008 to sponsor new and continuing research projects related to the core research areas of radicalization, terrorist operations and interventions, and community resilience relative to the terrorist threat.
Maybe they should consider the terrorist threat from GOP/Radical Right hate:
“This is a part of the war on whites that’s being launched by the Democratic Party. And the way in which they’re launching this war is by claiming that whites hate everybody else.” Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.)
The radical Right's hate is the hate that fuels fascism...and murder. THEY are such homicidal jackasses they are justifiably considered a terrorist threat.
No wonder they like to be "anonymous", right Chuckie?
Clean up in cell 204 dave.
What a sore loser. Chuckie the hateful troll has lost again. Better make it about me, right?
Clean up in cell 203 Dave.
This comment has been removed by the author.
How about some photos and stories about muslims beheading and running around with machine guns, you communist nitwit?
Do you realize muslims are killing your socialist compatriots, another beheading today, and this dribble is the best you can do.
Idiots like you don't address the real problems of the day because you don't want to your reputation among the left wing fanatics.
Americans have been given a constitutional contract to maintain weapons to defend themselves. Then states have not yet convened to amend the constitution.
Thank God left wing lunatics are still the minority.
Craziest Man On Earth???
Crazy? How about the Muslims running around with knives and blades eradicating non muslims and beheading journalists. You don't write about that because you don't want to jeapordize your left wing reputation, even though no one takes you seriously regardless of political affiliation. Left wing idiots must adore the imperialist tendancies of ISIS. A contributing reason that our President has no strategy and left wing press is silent, although their own are now taking hits.
Americans have a constitutional contract to bear arms. There is a constitutional process to change this should the broader population deem such a change appropriate.
It one thing to be a moron, its another thing to advertise it. No, keep focusing your attention away from murders and drunk drivers. Your idiocy should serve instructive to others.
Great rant. You are obviously NOT a Fox "news" watch like so many other commenters. You said what had to be said and perhaps some of the dolts who don't read their news might want to start doing so.
Best regards,
Tom Madison
Gresham Oregon
I have written about Muslim extremism before. You're not paying attention. Go back to sleep, Juan.
And thank you, Tomm.
Juan,
One of the great things about Tom's blog is he has listed by month and year every posting of a thread he has ever made.
So I took the "Tom Degan Challenge" to see when it was he wrote about "Muslim extremism before".
June 18th 2014, Tom wrote about the failure of democracy in Iraq with the main theme being the failure is not Obama's but GWB's.
There is not one mention or use of the term "Muslim extremism" from Tom.
April 16 2013, Boston Bombing, not one word from Tom about Muslims, extremism. He does use the word terrorism twice in this month. Once to describe the results of deregulation and the other to say he wasn't sure if the Boston bombing was foreign or domestic. Since it was found to not be domestic right wing extremism, Tom has not said one word about the Boston bombing since. Kind of lie most of liberalism. I do not find that strange as it fits the liberal template of the only thing extreme are Conservatives.
So you see Juan, you were correct. Tom hasn't addressed "Muslim extremism" much less used the words, once in the past 20 moths that I checked. Tom just gave you the liberal song and dance. How do you like it now? Kind of like Obama's promises, if you know what I mean, but in Tom's case he won't have Mozart defending him by blaming the GOP, or at least I wouldn't think so. But liberals continue to amaze me for their ability to blame others for their own failures. I just wish they held conservatives to the same standards as they hold themselves.
In closing Juan I'm going to share with you a few words from Dave Dubya, who, if the past is any indication, will be doing his defensive dance of the ad hominen with this now classic example of liberal insanity.
And now I quote the legend in his own mind, Dave Dubya.
"His is the hate that fuels fascism."
TA DA!
But liberals continue to amaze me for their ability to blame others for their own failures. I just wish they held conservatives to the same standards as they hold themselves.
LOL!
What continues to amaze the rational and sane people, is the hypocrisy and so-called “standards” bleated by the flock of the Radical Right Bubble Cult. It blames Obama and liberals for the Bush Crash of ’08. It blames Obama and liberals for the Bush Great Recession. And it blames Obama and liberals for the Bush Debacle in Iraq.
How's that for amazing?
The RRBC sets the standard in “their ability to blame others”. They are brainwashed to believe liberals are to blame for everything.
Yeah, like that’s news.
They scapegoat and accuse incessantly, without evidence or reason. They say the same things about liberals as their fellow Reich Wingers did about Jews, Communists, Socialists, Gypsies, and Gays. Liberals are the Jews of their Reich Wing Cult of Hate.
They are driven by ignorance, scorn, demonization and deep seated hatred for liberals, Muslims, and minorities. And we note the hate they convey here, especially for those who call out their lies, hypocrisy, scapegoating, and false accusations.
What was that profound statement about their hate again?
Just proving repetition really is the only way anything sinks in with the RRBC. It works so well for their Big Lies, I thought I’d try using it for the truth.
I love it.
Juan,
What did I tell ya?
Like clock work.
What Dave doesn't remember or want to tell you, he accused posters of being racist if they were critical of Islamic extremism. He has never been critical of Islamic extremist. I guess he didn't have a strategy then anymore than our President has one now in dealing with Islamic extremism.
Note the hubris exhibited as Dave accuses conservatives of being full of hate for just about anyone/anything you can think of, while overlooking the fact that in my post there was not one word of hate speech, just a review of the postings of Tom. A review which Dave not surprisingly ignores in an attempt to deflect from the fact that Tom is "ignorant" of what he has posted.
All because I shed the light of truth on Tom's "misstatement".
But you are correct Juan in your statement about Muslim Extremism and Tom saying a word about it. It's just not on the liberal radar, as the only enemy of America is non liberals.
TA DA!
Where I come from, lies and false accusations for others reflect hatred.
in my post there was not one word of hate speech, just a review of the postings of Tom.
That would be a lie.
What Dave doesn't remember or want to tell you, he accused posters of being racist if they were critical of Islamic extremism.
That would be another LIE, along with yet another false and baseless accusation.
This would be more of the hate:
But liberals continue to amaze me for their ability to blame others for their own failures. I just wish they held conservatives to the same standards as they hold themselves.
So fanatical in their hatred, they are blinded by the hate so much they can't see even their own hate. They view it as their self-anointed "virtue" and "superior" morality, as they reflexively spew false accusations and lies.
They cannot hide their hate. Theirs is the hate, accusations, and lies that fuel fascism. (We wonder how long it will take for Chuckie to read those new words of truth in my statement.)
It is too bad that the presidency was stolen from Al Gore, we could all be living in a Liberal paradise instead of a Conservative hellhole.
With him in charge there was a good chance 9/11 could of been averted and we would have avoided a host of sins foisted upon us by Bush/Cheney.
Because of their actions the U.S. is just a shell of what it was previous to the year 2000.
Sean Penn bows his head in the prayer,
CARACAS, Venezuela, Sept. 2 (UPI) -- Venezuela's Socialist Party PSUV (Socialist Party United for Venezuela) unveiled a new version of the Lord's Prayer during an ideology workshop on Monday.
Attendees of the First workshop for designing socialist training systems were the first to hear "Our Chavez," the Hugo Chavez-inspired version of the Our Father.
Representative María Uribe introduced the prayer as "The Delegate's Prayer" during Monday's event and began reading: "Our Chavez who art in heaven, on earth, in the sea and in us the representatives, Hallowed be Thy Name."
"Thy legacy come,
So we can bring it to towns here and there,
Give us this day your light so it guides us every day,
Lead us not into the temptation of capitalism,
And deliver us from the evil of the oligarchy, like the felony of contraband,
Because the mother land is ours, and so is peace and life,
Forever and Ever, Amen
Long Live Chavez"
Can't wait to read Mozart's version for Obama
Is this what happened to the middle class?
"Recently, a friend asked me what would I recommend his daughter major in as she begins college this fall. I thought for a moment and answered “welfare”. The father was quite taken back as I took out my IPAD and forwarded him some one of my files which contains our recent economic statistics.
There are 35 states in this country in which it is better to accept welfare than work at an entry level job.
Wayne Emmerich found that the family breadwinner who works only one week a month at minimum wage makes 92% as much as the breadwinner grossing $60,000 a year. Emmerich’s stats demonstrate that by working only one week a month on can save a lot of money in child care expense. But topping the list is Medicaid, which is accessible to minimum wage earners and the program has very low deductibles and co-pays. In short, by working only one week a month at a minimum wage job, a minimum wage earner is able to get total medical coverage for next to nothing courtesy of you and me.
The middle class is not as lucky as the $60,000 breadwinner pays out approximately $12,000 per year in health insurance costs with an additional $4,500 in co-pays. And if anyone in the part-time minimum wage earning family is disabled, SSI pays out an additional $8,088 per year. When one begins to calculate the expenses incurred by a typical breadwinner making $60,000 per year, compared to the part time minimum wage worker, coupled with minimum wage earners tax supported federal bailouts for these freeloaders, the poor have more discretionary income than those who pay the taxes that run the country. And if the part time minimum wage worker is willing to cheat and participate in the underground economy, they will have significantly more discretionary income than their hard-working $60,000 per year counterpart who actually works for a living. In short, if you are a full-time employee making above minimum wage, you are paying for your own economic demise. The numbers here suggest that we’d be better off staying home and living off of the labors of what’s left of the middle class."
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/#XFpLFFuSI3ey8wP8.99
BTW James, I guess your over looking Tom's big lie, right? As to be expected, make the focus on the person who exposes the liberal lie, vs liar.
It’s been clear for months that President Barack Obama is already in retirement mode.
He is closing in on 200 golf games since becoming president.
He regularly skips his briefings.
He’s disengaged from files,making only grudging statements about national crises.
Then a U.S. citizen, James Foley, was beheaded by the terrorist group called the Islamic State, or ISIS.
It was a shocking message of defiance and violence directed at the United States, a direct political and military challenge.
But Obama didn’t interrupt his vacation in Martha’s Vineyard, Mass. He didn’t go back to the White House situation room to meet with his generals or the CIA.
He went to a local elementary school, dressed casually— no tie — and made some perfunctory remarks about the murder. And then he immediately changed into shorts and went straight back to the golf course. He didn’t even wear a tie to talk about Foley’s murder, because he was already halfway to golf in his mind.
So it shouldn’t have come as a surprise last Thursday when, back at the White House now but still dressed in a lovely, light-tan summer suit, Obama was asked about his strategy for taking on the Islamic State. While Obama was golfing, and vacationing, and fundraising, and hitting the late night talk show circuit, the Islamic State had conquered half of Iraq, and much of Syria. So a journalist asked if Obama had consulted Congress about his strategy.
No, he had not. And for a good reason. “We don’t have a strategy yet,” Obama said.
You can’t get Congress on board your strategy if you can’t decide on one. You can’t get generals to execute your strategy if you can’t decide on one. And Obama has been so busy, you see.
The president has a golf strategy. He has a fundraising strategy. But he doesn’t have a counter-terrorism strategy. The Islamic State is a mutation of al-Qaida. America has been at war with them since 9/11. Obama has had six years as president to come up with a strategy. But he hasn’t.
That’s inexcusable. But it’s outright bizarre that he confessed that fact to the world. Not just to the Islamic State. But to Vladimir Putin, who can’t believe his luck.
At the same disastrous press conference, Obama was asked about his Ukraine strategy. And on that file, Obama has one: to do nothing.
That’s actually not quite true. Obama is doing less than nothing. He’s in outright denial — referring to Russia’s actions as “violence” or an “incursion.” He used every word except for what it really was — an invasion. A war.
That reveals Obama’s strategy: to do nothing.
Or less than nothing. Obama still refuses to sell any military weapons to Ukraine. He’s offered to send them MREs — that’s U.S. military “meals ready to eat.” So he’ll send Ukraine some freezedried food to eat while Russian tanks surge over the border.
This is a disaster for the world. Nature abhors a vacuum. And as America retreats, and navel-gazes, and golfs, others jump in. Russia, China, Iran. Smaller regional thugs like Venezuela, North Korea. And every terrorist with a plan, like the Islamic State, which now rules half of Iraq and much of Syria.
Obama famously campaigned with a book in his hands called The Post-American World. He believes in that — that America isn’t the boss, or it shouldn’t be.
That’s not safe for the world. And it will very soon be clear that it’s not safe for America, either.
Juan, before you start patting yourself on the back because Anonymous agrees with you (if you are not Anonymous under another new name)Let me catch you up on one of Anonymous' most proud statements.
"Ahh Mozart, Mitch McConnell is in the Senate, not the Congress."
The guy does not have a clue how our government is set up, has no idea who his own congressmen are, and stepps in to make every blog (even one about the late Robin Williams) into a whinefest about Obama. You'd think he's one of Romney's kids.
As for radical Muslims beheading people, let us know when it happens here in America.
And anyone who's obsessed with Obama's golf games (even resorting to counting) is not worth paying attention to. If you think any president is EVER "off duty" you are as clueless as Anonymous. Bush sat doing nothing for 7 minutes while the country was under attack on 9-11. He went on vacation to his ranch during Katrina, leaving a guy who organized horse shows in charge. Where's the outrage?
Obama is doing a great job in spite of unprecidented obstruction from the right. Get over it.
"As for radical Muslims beheading people, let us know when it happens here in America."
Anyone who says this, is not worth listening to.
On Tuesday night, the three major broadcast networks omitted from their coverage on the Islamic group ISIS a report that President Barack Obama has received briefings on the terrorist organization “for a least a year before the group seized large swaths of territory over the summer.”
See Mozart for explanation.
"Liberal war on men!"
LOL! it doesn't take much to frighten the tough guys of the RRBC, does it?
A 22 year old woman who correctly observes fewer men would mean less violence is now up there with ISIS as the dire threat to their "freedom".
"International Castration Day" and "genital mutilation, eugenics, and murder. Oh, and slavery. There’s slavery, too".
The horror! LOL!!!
Yeah, add that to of Obama's "death panels" and the evil "liberal" corporate media and it's plain to see the liberal war on everything good and decent.
They are either afraid of, or deny, anything that they don't understand, which is most of humanity as well as the universe itself.
Priceless!
Notice how anonymous TRIES to attack me with my own quotes? I stand by ALL of them. Does HE stand by all of his?
Obviously not, but he will keep coming up with bizzaar stories with no citations we can verify. When he's shot down in one area, he just changes the subject.
I guess this means Dave supports forced sterilization of males, like this liberal feminist. Maybe it's a job related thing for him.
Liberalism, policy's so wonderful they have to be mandated.
Bizarre stories? Without with no citations?
Try this for size Mozart.
youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4
Actually this is just a taste of the bizarre policy's the radical left wing wants to mandate on the rest of us.
As for changing subjects, hell I thought you and Dave were all about making sure the "truth" was published here. Yet both of you seem to have turned a blind eye to the lie Tom told Juan.
I just wish liberals held themselves to the same standards as they hold conservatives.
BIZZARE?
Wednesday at a ceremony to appoint Texas lawyer Shaarik Zafar to be special representative to Muslim communities, Secretary of State John Kerry said it was the United States’ Biblical “responsibility” to “confront climate change,” including to protect “vulnerable Muslim majority counties.”
Anti-Islamic posts on an Appleton alderwoman’s Facebook page prompted sharp criticism Tuesday from community members who called the sentiments hateful and dangerous.
Cathy Spears, a member of the city council, is at the center of the response to two “shared” messages that listed terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims and questioned whether Islamic teachings are peaceful.
An illegal immigrant who killed two children in a hit-and-run accident is not only avoiding deportation from the United States, she won’t receive any prison time at all.
Cynthia Garcia-Cisneros, an illegal immigrant, recently had her immigration case dismissed, despite the fact that she was convicted of two felonies for a hit-and-run that resulted in the tragic deaths of two young girls.
On top of the fact that her case was dismissed – although the reason for dismissal and the judge’s name have not been released – Garcia-Cisneros received no prison time for her conviction, an example of how the immigration laws in the U.S. can often protect illegal immigrants more than legal U.S. citizens.
One day after the Islamic State in Iraq and al Sham (ISIS) released a video showing the brutal beheading of American journalist Steven Sotloff–the second American journalist ISIS has decapitated on video–Secretary of State John Kerry gave a speech saying that Islam is a “peaceful religion based on the dignity of all human beings,” and that ISIS is not “the real face of Islam.”
Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz ripped into Republican Gov. Scott Walker’s record Wednesday during a round-table discussion on women’s issues at the Milwaukee Athletic Club.
The Florida congresswoman said: “Scott Walker has given women the back of his hand. I know that is stark. I know that is direct. I know that is reality.” Maybe that's why liberals want to castrate men?
OBAMA: "Democracy will win, because a government’s legitimacy can only come from citizens. Because in this age of information and empowerment, people want more control over their lives, not less. And because more than any other form of government ever devised, only democracy, rooted in the sanctity of the individual, can deliver real progress. And freedom will win – not because it’s inevitable, not because it is ordained, but because these basic human yearnings for dignity and justice and democracy do not go away."
Now Ive got a pen and a phone and mandates and the ACA all of which increase your personal freedom from Govt.
BIZZARE?
In June of this year, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) introduced an amendment to halt the Pentagon's 1033 program, which distributes hundreds of millions of dollars of military-grade weapons and equipment to local police annually. The amendment overwhelmingly failed, and just seven out of 41 voting members of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) supported it.
That vote has drawn controversy in the wake of this summer's protests and grotesquely militarized police response in Ferguson, Mo. Ferguson's own congressman is Rep. Lacy Clay (D-Mo.); he is a member of the CBC, and he voted against demilitarizing police.
Now, The New York Times reports that the CBC is campaigning on what happened in Ferguson to turn out African-American voters for 2014, an effort which would presumably be more difficult were the CBC's record on police militarization more widely known.
Dave, I dont see you speaking out against the war on men that the liberal women wants to wage. I dont see you correcting Tom for lying about the subjects of his posts to Juan.
Dave you are BIZZARE!
Or is this your "strategy"?
Wednesday on Newsmax TV's "The Steve Malzberg Show," former CBS News correspondent Sharyl Attkisson said the Obama administration is refusing to tell Congress where the ten of thousands of unaccompanied minors who crossed the U.S.-Mexican Border this summer were sent after they were processed though holding centers along the border.
Attkisson said the Obama administration seems to be intentionally stonewalling by not answering letters from members of Congress or reporters questions.
She added the only recourse is a FIOA lawsuit that will take years to go though the system.
More from the most transparent administration in our history
Mozart, your reply is proof that the only threat in your mind to America are conservatives. You are now the official Chief Clancy Wiggum of the liberal-ville
"Everybody step back, there's nothing to see here. Come on step back...[looks at crash] oh my GOD! A horrible plane crash! come on everybody look at this! Come on don't be shy, gather around"
"I'd rather let a thousand guilty men go free than chase after them."
Got to go now, working for the GOP Congressional races. Did you see that CBS just predicted three (3) more Democrat senate seats going to the GOP in NOV?
What do you expect when the leader of your party, the President, is a lame albatross around your candidate's necks.
p.s. it's not MY video.
Its OK to admit that your President is not doing a good job.
When George Bush was President he was constantly criticized about almost everything.
Barack Obama is a flawed human being, as we all are; he's not God, and some people even criticize God.
Next time, don't elect a community organizer who talks from both sides of his mouth.
Anonymous, you can name call and avoid the subject all you want, but you still said this:
"Ahh Mozart, Mitch McConnell is in the Senate, not the Congress."
And when asked who YOUR congressmen are, you run and change the subject.
You have no knowledge of how the American government works, you come in with ridiculous unverifiable statements from people no one cares about, and when asked to back up your statements you reply with childish mockery.
Now...tell us again why we should take you seriously?
Oh, and better a "community organizer" than a drunken coke addict who failed at everything he ever did. Jeez...he couldn't even get elected President without daddy pulling strings.
WHO ARE YOUR CONGRESSMEN?
Bet you don't know.
Boomers (greedy and spoiled) have always been out for their own good time no matter the consequences. Many of their parents (the so called greatest generation) had always said the Boomers would end up destroying America.
It is a failure of the Boomer generation that they will not only pass on an America much worse off than was passed to them, but have made it impossible to fix their own mess, even though they seem to have no interest in fixing their mess.
I have tried to work against that demise (much more than just voting) but found myself living under the majority of the foolish. I'm to old to do much more than just voting and I feel sorry for future Americans.
History will record which generation ruined what many generations spent their blood, money, hard work, and time to build.
I won't be around to help pay for the fix (if a fix is possible) and am happy I won't have to live through it.
Maybe the gun loons have it right? As water and food disappears, civil discourse turns to violence, and government is cut to nothing people might need guns.
It looks like a very bad Sci-Fi B flick from the 1950's. The scientist and intellects have told us the monster is coming, but the people won't do anything until the monster is destroying their own - so sorry - to late.
BIZZARE
THE "BEST" of Al Sharpton on his MSNBC show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbaR4SBAr4s
Once again Anonymous uses grade school mockery and avoids the original subject and all questions put to him.
ANONYMOUS...WHO ARE YOUR CONGRESSMEN? (And remember to include Senators as they are part of congress)
BIZZARE
Mozart won't post on the original topic of this thread, but WHINES when others don't.
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) on Wednesday said that the Obama administration should make defeating the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) its top priority.
Last week, President Barack Obama admitted that his administration does not “have a strategy yet” for attacking the Islamic State in its Syrian stronghold. On Wednesday, noting in the same speech that his administration would seek to “destroy” ISIS and/or “shrink” it into a “manageable problem,” he revealed that he does not really even have a single objective in mind for how to deal with the Islamic State.
"No one supports abortion" Mozart
MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry said "“So I have been having these imaginings,” Harris-Perry said, “Where, instead of behind her are these enormous letters that say ‘feminist,’ that she’d come out and it had said, ‘Hands up, don’t shoot,’ or it had said ‘birth control,’ I mean – ‘abortion’ behind Beyonce.”
HUUFPOST hires Donte Stallworth as a Politics Fellow covering national security. Stallworth is mostly known as a 10-year veteran of the NFL. In 2009, Stallworth pled guilty to a DUI manslaughter charge after hitting and killing a man in Miami Beach. He was suspended by the NFL for the full 2009 season. He is also a 9/11 truther.
Anonymous, I think the WORSHIP of guns in this country is our biggest national security threat.
As for Obama "not having a plan", one cannot come up with an INTELLIGENT plan overnight. Obama, unlike Bush, THINKS before acting. He looks at the situation, consults advisors and THEN calls the play, and so far he's been 100% successful.
I know how "thinking" confuses you, but try and grasp the concept.
now...WHO ARE YOUR CONGRESSMEN?
Ill bet you not only don't know, you are too stupid to look it up.
I CHALLENG YOU TO ANSWER MY QUESTION YOU IGNORANT COWARD!
You actually said...
"Ahh Mozart, Mitch McConnell is in the Senate, not the Congress."
Hell man, you don't even know how the government works.
ANON 11:08
I tend to agree. That represents the largest wealth transfer ever - and one that most aren't perceptive of. That being the transfer of wealth from "X'ers", "millenials" and future gens to the Boomers via unfunded obligations atop mountains of un-payable debt.
And, to clarify, much of the transfer won't actually make it to the Boomers' hands in reality - it will end up vaporizing as losses and/or in the hands of western banking interests...
harley,
You're right. It is not simply a generational transference of wealth.
in the hands of western banking interests...
That's part of the big payoff when too-big-to-fail banks, corporate "persons", and the new aristocracy of Kochs and Waltons are allowed unlimited and secret "free speech" to buy elections, to lobby, and to own presidents, senators and representatives.
We wonder why it is that most conservatives seem to have no problem with this. I suppose it's a lot easier, and far more encouraged, to just blame liberals for everything. Never mind who's really pulling the strings. Pay no attention to the wealthy, and corporate "persons", behind the curtain.
When those in public office serve only private interests, we no longer have a Democratic representative Republic. The only possible course is more "trickle up" wealth to the top and less for the rest.
And that is exactly what is happening.
Corporatocracy prevails and Wealth rules. "Conservatives" have won.
But what exactly are they conserving? Aristocratic dynasties? Corporate welfare? Power of the "economic royalists"?
What are the consequences for the public? Expanding inequality? Growing poverty? Dismantling public education? All of the above?
(My questions are rhetorical, not an authoritarian demand like Chuckie is so prone to do.)
Speaking of representing private, versus public, interests:
Mitch McConnell is on tape addressing a private June strategy session of Republican billionaire donors, convened by the Koch brothers. He thanks them, “for the important work you’re doing. I don’t know where we’d be without you. . . rallying, uh, to the cause.”
“..We now have, I think, the most free and open system we’ve had in modern times. The Supreme Court allowed all of you to participate in the process in a variety of different ways. You can give to the candidate of your choice. You can give to Americans for Prosperity, or something else, a variety of different ways to push back against the party of government.”
“We’re going to go after them on health care, on financial services, on the Environmental Protection Agency, across the board…”
There could be no clearer declaration of the class war by the financial elites against the public interests.
DD -
Not sure I'd agree with you that "corporations" are as much to blame. What I'm referencing is a handful of VERY powerful and influential interests vis-à-vis the Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank, Council on Foreign Relations, etc... Very complex and I don't pretend to have it all figured out - who does...? But, I don't guess I see large corporations generally driving this. In fact, they often stand to be victims to it as well in the final analysis.
Harley,
Corporations do become victims..of their unsustainable and blind devotion to the bottom line at the expense of the wage earners. THey suppress their own life-blood by their short term focus on profits.
They get their deregulation, the bubble bursts, the oil and chemicals spill, and the environment and public be damned.
Did you read what McConnell said? I can't understand your belief, in view of the evidence. Do you really not think corporate interests are over-represented in balance to the public interest?
Corporate interests write legislation through ALEC. Corporations write trade agreements that lead to off-shoring jobs.
Banks are corporations. Profits are up for Kochs and Waltons. Those two families are represented by more senators and reps than half the country.
So who else is doing as well, besides the elites?
I agree that most banks will never lose, despite the "sacrifice" of Lehman Brothers. Private profit at public cost has been very kind to them.
"I think the WORSHIP of guns in this country is our biggest national security threat. "
Mozart 9/4/2014
What is the name of your local gun worshiping church? Do you plan to violate their freedom to worship as guaranteed by our Constitution? Or are you just going to violate their 2nd Amendment rights?
I mean these are serous concerns you are sharing with us Mozart. What is the President's strategy to neutralize these gun worshipers who are a threat to our national security? Should Home Land Security issue a new warning level? What is our governments answer to this threat?
Should we sterilize the males who worship guns?
What will Eric Holder say?
baptism
Meaning:
the drenching of a prison guard with urine and/or feces
Example:
Word of the guard's "baptism" had spread throughout the cellhouse, sparking laughter and jeers from the boys in da house.
I do not know why but these posts by the anonymous people create images of roaches crawling around in sewer slop, dark mindless activity. I am very glad I am not one of them.
That was not me who made that last post.
Spamming isn't enough. Chuckie the extremist "con-servative" troll, really loves throwing the shit, doesn't he?
Classic sociopath behavior, for all to see. We would know exactly what to expect from him when he's jailed for some future violent act of hate.
So, will Chuckie's "Con-servative values", here on full display, win the debate, and demonstrate the superior wisdom of his hateful cult ideology?
He never fails to stoop to new lows. I bet he's a hit at his Klan and militia meetings.
Well done, Chuckie. Keep it thoughtful, dignified, and classy.
His is, indeed, the hate that fuels fascism.
Anonymous, there is no "local" gun worshiping church" but the NATIONAL one is called the NRA.
As for Obama;s plan, there was a pretty good bill up for a vote which over 80% of Americans (including many NRA MEMBERS) approved of and supported, but the NRA leaders made sur e it got shot down by buying off many congressmen (which includes the Senate BTW) and scaring off many others (political retribution)
Now, stop being such a childish dickhead and TELL US WHO YOUR CONGRESSMEN ARE YOU IGNORANT COWARD.
Oh, as for what we should do with gun worshipers, I would have suggested a lobotomy but there is nothing to work with.
MARKET WATCH – Hiring in the United States slowed in August as the economy created just 142,000 jobs, marking the smallest gain since December.
The deceleration in hiring last month ended a six-month streak in which the U.S. added at least 200,000 jobs a month, the best stretch of job creation since 2006. The number of jobs created also fell well short of Wall Street’s forecast calling for a 228,000 gain.
The unemployment rate, meanwhile, fell a tick to 6.1% to match a six-year low. More people found work, but more Americans (64,000) also dropped out of the labor force. As a result, the labor-force participation rate dipped to 62.8% from 62.9% to match a 26-year low.
Creeping towards that socialist nirvana.
Anonymous, you are the classic example of a person in "the bubble".
How did you ever get through High School without someone beating the living crap out of you?
Wait! I know! You never went! If you HAD gone you'd know that the Senate is part of congress.
Figure out who your congressmen are yet? Maybe you should ask your Mom.
But thanks for posting your "Market Watch" which proves that the economy is improving under Obama in spite of your heroes obstructing everything like a bunch of vindictive children.
Can't WAIT for "Socialist Nirvana"!
Mozart,
I will not stoop to your level of exchange as it is beneath my dignity to do so with people who are lacking in the number of chromosomes in their DNA.
Plus I know it pisses you off.
I will not stoop to your level of exchange as it is beneath my dignity...
Yeah, Mozart, Chuckie's level of "dignity" is posting irrelevant spam about feces throwing thugs.
We can't all be adults like him, right?
LOL!!!
Mozart,
"While unemployment nationwide is 6.1%, the unemployment rate for black Americans at 11.4% is more than double the rate for white Americans, who have an unemployment rate of 5.3%, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)."
The truth hurts.
Signed
The Rest of Us.
Dave,
Cuba’s communist-led intelligence services are aggressively recruiting leftist American academics and university professors as spies and influence agents, according to an internal FBI report published this week.
Cuban intelligence services “have perfected the work of placing agents, that includes aggressively targeting U.S. universities under the assumption that a percentage of students will eventually move on to positions within the U.S. government that can provide access to information of use to the [Cuban intelligence service],” the five-page unclassified FBI report says. It notes that the Cubans “devote a significant amount of resources to targeting and exploiting U.S. academia.”
“Academia has been and remains a key target of foreign intelligence services, including the [Cuban intelligence service],” the report concludes.
One recruitment method used by the Cubans is to appeal to American leftists’ ideology. “For instance, someone who is allied with communist or leftist ideology may assist the [Cuban intelligence service] because of his/her personal beliefs,” the FBI report, dated Sept. 2, said.
The Truth Hurts.
"The Truth Hurts."
What? You're afraid of Cubans? Should have known. It's a long list.
More BIZZARE transparency.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The IRS says it has lost emails from five more workers who are part of congressional investigations into the treatment of conservative groups that applied for tax exempt status.
The tax agency said in June that it could not locate an untold number of emails to and from Lois Lerner, who headed the IRS division that processes applications for tax-exempt status. The revelation set off a new round of investigations and congressional hearings.
On Friday, the IRS said it has also lost emails from five other employees related to the probe, including two agents who worked in a Cincinnati office processing applications for tax-exempt status.
The agency blamed computer crashes for the lost emails. In a statement, the IRS said it found no evidence that anyone deliberately destroyed evidence.
Anonymous, your "level of exchange" is that of a whiny teenage girl. You have no clue how the government works, have no clue who your congressmen are, yet you constantly WHINE about Obama and when proven wrong you change the subject or respond with childish mockery.
Piss me off? I'm LAUGHING at you.
This one is CLASSIC
"Ahh Mozart, Mitch McConnell is in the Senate, not the Congress."
Embarrassed much?
Maybe if you could answer the simplest questions with even a shred of honesty...
And "The rest of us"...talk to greedy bigoted buisiness owners about Black unemployment. It's not the president's job to "create jobs".
Maybe if the GOP members of congress (including the Senate Anonymous) would get off their asses and DO SOMETHING the economy would improve fast enough for you.
James Hanson, how many Americans were beheaded IN AMERICA this year?
Can you say NONE? Go to a war zone, where it's well known they behead Americans (because they know it shocks and offends us) and you take your chances. Tragic? Of course it is. Surprising? Not at all. Preventable? Yes, DON'T GO THERE!
"Christian" fundies with guns and a desire to pass discriminatory laws ARE a greater threat to us HERE than ISIS right now. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE!
ISIS isn't.
Oh, and about those "missing" E-mails...
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/issa-blamed-ibm-software-loss-22-million
Where was the outrage?
Hypocrite much Anonymous?
This blog is getting fucked up with the assholes that steal names. Free speech is one thing, sabotaging free speech is totally different.
They are infringing on my right to express my opinions and this problem is one sided. Only the right wing cowards are doing this.
Tom, if you can do something about this, act, because your blog is being ruined.
James,
Dishonesty and treachery are the hallmarks of the far Right.
Chuckie is a liar and a coward. He knows no other way. His cult-like radical ideology cannot be defended by reason, so he resorts to what he does best.
His evil behavior, or in his cult's term, "moral relativism", makes liberals look like saints in comparison.
Theirs is the hate that fuels fascism.
Less than 48 hours after President Obama vowed to “defend Estonia,” Russian goons kidnapped an Estonian cop to demonstrate just what U.S.(a.k.a.Obama) red lines are worth.
Tom is a liar and a coward.
One of the great things about Tom's blog is he has listed by month and year every posting of a thread he has ever made.
So I took the "Tom Degan Challenge" to see when it was he wrote about "Muslim extremism before".
June 18th 2014, Tom wrote about the failure of democracy in Iraq with the main theme being the failure is not Obama's but GWB's.
There is not one mention or use of the term "Muslim extremism" from Tom.
April 16 2013, Boston Bombing, not one word from Tom about Muslims, extremism. He does use the word terrorism twice in this month. Once to describe the results of deregulation and the other to say he wasn't sure if the Boston bombing was foreign or domestic. Since it was found to not be domestic right wing extremism, Tom has not said one word about the Boston bombing since. Kind of lie most of liberalism. I do not find that strange as it fits the liberal template of the only thing extreme are Conservatives.
So you see Juan, you were correct. Tom hasn't addressed "Muslim extremism" much less used the words, once in the past 20 moths that I checked. Tom just gave you the liberal song and dance. How do you like it now? Kind of like Obama's promises, if you know what I mean, but in Tom's case he won't have Mozart defending him by blaming the GOP, or at least I wouldn't think so. But liberals continue to amaze me for their ability to blame others for their own failures. I just wish they held conservatives to the same standards as they hold themselves.
Dave, clean up in cell 315
Sorry, but the truth hurts.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 46% of American Adults think higher corporate taxes hurt the economy, while just 26% say they help. Fourteen percent (14%) think higher corporate taxes have no economic impact. Fifteen percent (15%) are not sure.
Meanwhile back to the topic of Tom's post:
A Michigan “Chuckie” exercises his right-to-carry, and wins an argument the “Right way”:
”Responsible’” Gun Owner Gets Mad And Shoots A Man In The Face, Killing Him
The right loves to scream that the left wants to take their guns away. It never crosses their mind that perhaps some of them are so batshit crazy that they shouldn't own any gun that doesn't squirt water. Take 69-year-old Martin Zale, he thought it perfectly acceptable to shoot another man in the face last week.
On Tuesday, witnesses say Zale was driving recklessly in Howell, Michigan. He tailgated and then cut off 43-year-old Derek Flemming while Flemming was on his way to pick up his kids from school with his wife. When Zale and Flemming reached a stoplight, Flemming exited his vehicle and asked Zale,”What’s your problem?” In response Zale rolled down his window and shot Flemming in the face.
Looks like “Chuckie” Zale may be the next excrement throwing convict Chuckie the troll likes to report.
These rabid Right thugs and fanatics are not much different from terrorists.
After all, theirs is the hate, and rage, that fuels fascism.
Sorry, but the truth hurts, and kills.
"The Rest of us" does not realize that corporate taxes are the lowest in decades, and does not show WHY people think the way they do. Typical right wing tactic of telling half the story.
Besides, if corporations are people and people are taxed...
And Anonymous calling Tom a liar is too ironic to believe.
According to the White House Office of Management and Budget, Federal Revenues have tripled since 1965. This despite tax cut and recessions.
Yet the deficient continues to explode. What is the solution?
How then do you explain the deficits exploding under GOP Presidents that cut taxes?
Anonymous has no idea how our government works. He doesn't even realize the Senate is part of Congress.
Sorry, but the truth hurts.
MSNBC Poll: 82% Believe Carrying A Gun Is A Constitutional Right.
How then do you explain the deficits exploding under GOP Presidents that cut taxes?
Why don't you tell us Mozart, since you're the expert on conservatives and the GOP.
Anonymous, you need to go to school and learn how the government works, and "The rest of us"...carrying a gun may be a constitutional right, but the 2nd also says "WELL REGULATED" and all we are asking (0ver 80% of us)is some common sense laws that help us keep guns out of the hands of lunatics (maybe like you)
And just because people "believe" something does not make it true. Look how many people in this day and age still believe in a supernatural "Sky Daddy".
BTW, in the "old west" most of the towns had laws prohibiting the carrying of firearms within city limits. Just sayin...
Don’t Blame Obama – History Will
Countries living alongside each other, like the U.S. and Mexico, the old Eastern Europe vs Western Europe, North Korea vs South Korea, the Dominican Republic vs Haiti should tell even the most unenlightened that we must not pursue or seek to incorporate the failed collectivism, today known as "progressivism", of failing states.
Instead, more individual freedom, economic freedom, and a respect for free enterprise is what has brought the most benefit to most of humanity.
This is what America is all about. No "Great Debate" needed, just a strong commitment to the ideals that made this country great. Just Say'n
MSNBC Poll: 82% Believe Carrying A Gun Is A Constitutional Right.
"And just because people "believe" something does not make it true."
Like 75% the shit that you believe Mozart fits into this description.
Mozart -
I'd be interested to hear your rationale for disbelief in God.
Also, I be fascinated to hear where you get off preaching ANY kind of moral basis, without a basis for morality. You see, you run into a couple of very serious logical problems. Without God, there is no basis for morality. Also, if you hold to a naturalistic framework, there is, again, no basis for morality. We are material beings without any metaphysical essence and we are all "dancing to our DNA" and cannot be held morally culpable for our actions.
It is a belief system that collapses miserably under the weight of its own foolishness. But, alas, that will not stop those seeking to be the masters of their own universe from holding fast to nothingness.
And, I do know that the Senate is part of Congress, so I'm no slouch here...
Obama actually tells Chuck Todd that his immigration delay WASN’T about the midterm elections!
and surprise Mozart believes the president.
This is what America is all about. No "Great Debate" needed
Now THAT is a hoot!
No “Great Debate” is needed, indeed. The radical authoritarian Right has all the answers, and no desire for debate or compromise. Americans are to submit to their dictatorship. Period. Anyone who disagrees will be demonized and targeted for their hate.
Let's look at “what America is all about” to them:
First, make up crap like, North Korea is “progressivism” as you demonize liberals as commies.
Pretend to have “a strong commitment to the ideals that made this country great”, but restrict voting times and registration in targeted areas, embrace torture and a surveillance state, start wars of aggression based on lies for cronies and political capital, and above all, ignore, or suppress the Constitutional mandates for the general welfare and regulation of commerce. Their efforts at a “strong commitment to the ideals that made this country great” are to insure our laws and government are subverted and twisted into service of the undemocratic, autocratic, corporate oligarchy.
Their “ideals” are nothing more than whatever makes the rich masters more wealthy and more powerful. Period.
And then they pretend that their destructive deregulation and tax cuts are “individual freedom, economic freedom, and a respect for free enterprise”.
If you buy that line, I have some of Saddam's old "Nukular" aluminum tubes for his atom bomb to sell you.
Instead, their “individual freedom” turns out to be a multinational corporation is a "person", with unlimited “free speech” in our elections. For the American whose job is sent to Asia, “individual freedom” means, “You’re on your own”, and “don’t be a taker” of unemployment benefits.
Instead, their “economic freedom” turns out to be more tax cuts for corporations and their owners. Their “economic freedom” means never raising the minimum wage. Their “economic freedom” means slashing food stamps and safety nets. Their “economic freedom” means more pollution of our air, land, and water.
And instead of “respect for free enterprise” we see the Koch brothers owning an entire political party, and corporate insiders “regulating” corporate behavior, and writing legislation exclusively for their interests.
Finally, ignore the fact we saw the Great Depression and Great Bush Recession brought about by deregulation of banking and commerce, along with the usual tax cuts for the rich.
This is what America is all about. No "Great Debate" needed
Yeah, just trust them. You’ll see a police state, with more wars, more financial collapse, and more misery for the people.
No "Great Debate" needed. Trust them. They wouldn’t lie, would they? They wouldn’t steer us wrong, right?
The whole town of Ferguson was peopled with idiots with bad breath and beer bellies who needed a can of oppression unleashed on them, who knew?
"ignore the fact we saw the Great Depression and Great Bush Recession brought about by deregulation of banking and commerce"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/wall-street-deregulation-clinton-advisers-obama
Wall Street deregulation pushed by Clinton advisers, documents reveal THE GUARDIAN 19 April 2014
Previously restricted papers reveal attempts to rush president to support act, later blamed for deepening banking crisis
Wall Street deregulation, blamed for deepening the banking crisis, was aggressively pushed by advisers to Bill Clinton who have also been at the heart of current White House policy-making, according to newly disclosed documents from his presidential library.
The previously restricted papers reveal two separate attempts, in 1995 and 1997, to hurry Clinton into supporting a repeal of the Depression-era Glass Steagall Act and allow investment banks, insurers and retail banks to merge.
A Financial Services Modernization Act was passed by Congress in 1999, giving retrospective clearance to the 1998 merger of Citigroup and Travelers Group and unleashing a wave of Wall Street consolidation that was later blamed for forcing taxpayers to spend billions bailing out the enlarged banks after the sub-prime mortgage crisis.
The White House papers show only limited discussion of the risks of such deregulation, but include a private note which reveals that details of a deal with Citigroup to clear its merger in advance of the legislation were deleted from official documents, for fear of it leaking out.
“Please eat this paper after you have read this,” jokes the hand-written 1998 note addressed to Gene Sperling, then director of Clinton's National Economic Council.
Podesta, who was then staff secretary but went on to become Clinton's chief of staff, wrote a covering note telling the president that all his senior advisers backed the plan, although he noted the danger that “allowing banks to engage in riskier activities like securities or insurance could subject the deposit insurance fund to added risk”.
But Clinton's advisers repeatedly reassured him that the decision to let Wall Street dismantle regulatory barriers designed to protect the public after the Great Depression simply represented inevitable modernisation.
“The argument for reform is that the separation between banking and other financial services mandated by Glass-Steagall is out of date in a world where banks, securities firms and insurance companies offer similar products and where firms outside the US do not face such restrictions,” wrote Podesta.
Newly-appointed Treasury secretary Robert Rubin, his deputy Bo Cutter and senior advisers including John Podesta gave the president three days to decide whether to back a repeal of Glass-Steagall.
The new documents cast fresh light on the way the White House was first ushered toward deregulation by the tight group of Rubin allies.
Harry,
I thought our internal documents about banking deregulation had been shredded!
I just want to know who was in charge of shredding documents back then when Treasury Secretary Rubin, after 26 years at Goldman Sachs, was pushing repeal of Glass-Steagal.
If the shredders had only seen how good Hillary was shredding all the Whitewater documents nobody would know we were the primary people behind Banking Deregulation!
Harry,
Clinton was at the heart of this. It was his policy, his decisions, and he was well rewarded by Wall Street in money after 2000. The Clintons are greedy pigs worth 80 million today. The Liberals are so full of shit when they talk about "corruption". Hey Lets just create, the Saul Alinsky way, new Strawmen like the Koch Brothers!
Clinton also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation.
The fact is that Clinton is the problem not the cure.
In 1993, using the threat of no more branch openings or mergers he (and Franks and Schumer) told the banks to lend money to poor (unqualified) people who were unlikely to repay. The banks would never have done it -- they'd never done it before and banking tradition was abandoned in the name of compassion.
The Liberals then say the Free Market failed after their experiment in Government Mandates in the Banking Industry fail.
Then, after this socialist disaster, you had Franks and Dodd sitting on the committee doing the inquest on banking.
Dodd got a sweat and corrupt deal on his mortgage from Lee Mazillo at Country Wide.
In politics the murderer reads the funeral epitaph.
You just can't make this shit up!
Harry Chuckie again provides evidence proving me correct.
Corpo-Dem Clinton did indeed sign the The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act.
So who are Gramm, Leach, and Bliley? Why, they are the Republicans who sponsored the bill. They wanted to retroactively legalize the merger of Citicorp and Travelers Group Insurance.
The law also repealed Glass–Steagall's conflict of interest prohibitions "against simultaneous service by any officer, director, or employee of a securities firm as an officer, director, or employee of any member bank".
So you see, when I refer to the Clintons as corporatists, Chuckie now has evidence to support me.
Thanks again, Chuckie.
I can provide multiple cases showing Obama has been upholding the office of "Corporatist in Chief" as well.
But why should I? Chuckie's cult tells him Clinton and Obama are Marxists, to be hated for eternity.
Theirs is the ignorance and hate that fuels fascism.
Clinton kept the federal insurance and dropped the regulation giving the banks a free way to gamble and make money using insured deposits. He got well rewarded for it. So did Rubin.
Rubin sets up the gold rush and then joins it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Harry,
Thank you for bringing this up again as many have have no recollection of the role played by the Clinton administration in deregulation that proved calamitous.
And don't forget Hillary making $100,000 in cattle futures trading. Like Whitewater, nothing shady there LOL!
Dave, did you delete your post once again at 12:37PM?
So maybe in their fanatic, hate-driven zeal to blame Clinton and liberals, the Radical Right Bubble Cult can’t quite "ignore the fact we saw the Great Depression and Great Bush Recession brought about by deregulation of banking and commerce".
I love it when they blame Clinton and the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000. It completely supports my case.
H.R. 4541 was introduced in the Republican controlled House of Representatives on May 25, 2000, as the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000. Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), the Chair of the Senate Banking Committee, was quoted as insisting that any bill brought to the Senate Floor would need to be expanded to include prohibitions on SEC regulation of the swaps market. - Wiki
So what we have is the Cult telling us the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act or Commodities Futures Modernization Act was a sinister act of liberal treachery. And while they seem to indicate this contributed to the Great Bush Financial Collapse of 2008, they miss a very important fact about the law.
Yes the so-called "socialist disaster" was hatched by Republicans and passed by a Republican controlled House of Representatives and a Republican controlled Senate.
"The banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis --- that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place." - Senator Dick Durban
"In Washington, the view is that the banks are to be regulated, and my view is that Washington and the regulators are there to serve the banks." – Republican Rep. Spencer Bachus
It is obvious no one twisted the banks arms to lend money to people who could not afford it.
So who do the Chuckies of the RRBC blame? Why, liberals, of course. Liberals are the Jews of their Reich of Greed and Hate.
Theirs is the ignorance and hate that fuels fascism.
Good Points Harry,
This, more than anything else, is why Hillary Clinton should not be president, she is affiliated and beholden to the same group of people responsible for the collapse of this country and for that matter the World.
Chelsea Clinton married a Goldman Sachs employee whose father was a convicted financial criminal, the dirt runs deep with the Clintons, very deep.
The dirt stains cannot be removed just like that stain on Monika Lewinsky's blue dress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mezvinsky
Edward "Ed" Mezvinsky is a former congressman. A Democrat, he represented Iowa's 1st congressional district in the United States House of Representatives for two terms, from 1973 to 1977.
He made several unsuccessful Senate attempts in the 1980s. In 2001, he was convicted of several dozen charges of fraud, and served five years in federal prison.
Harry,
Maybe those documents should have been sent in in email to the IRS, they seem to be good at losing stuff.
Don't forget how Obama fixed the welfare "mess" Clinton left him. If what Clinton signed (without a gun stuck in his head) and didn't veto it, was so bad, how come Obama and his party's controlled Congress repealed it?
It's exactly like Harry says and all that DD is trying to do is blame someone else for another liberal policy failure.
Oh yes the GOP controlled Congress while Clinton was in office. Isn't that the time period liberals like to point to as examples of how great the economy was under a Democrat? How spending reductions and a balanced budget occurred?
How they like to give Clinton the credit.
You got him Harry, don't let go!
Chuckie said:
Oh yes the GOP controlled Congress while Clinton was in office. Isn't that the time period liberals like to point to as examples of how great the economy was under a Democrat?
So Chuckie admits the GOP controlled Congress, but they magically don’t share the blame. Double standards and hypocrisy are the rule for the RRBC. And yes, Clinton left a better economy than Bush did. Remember him? No?
Thought so.
At any rate the fruits of the GOP congress, Clinton, and Bush finally rotted and collapsed our economy.
Better blame the black guy. Or just liberals. Makes the same sense, none at all.
“I Was There" Chuckie said:
Don't forget how Obama fixed the welfare "mess" Clinton left him.
LOL!! Yes, Obama took office in 2000 right after Clinton.
It's exactly like Harry says and all that DD is trying to do is blame someone else for another liberal policy failure.
Exactly what DD said: Blame liberals for a corporatist signed, con-servative policy hatched by Republicans and passed by a Republican controlled House of Representatives and a Republican controlled Senate, aka “liberal policy failure”.
You don’t NEED to be an asshole to belong to the RRBC, but…naw… they really are assholes.
Proving once again:
Theirs is the ignorance and hate that fuels fascism.
Before his government service, Robert Rubin spent 26 years at Goldman Sachs.
He served as United States Secretary of the Treasury during both the first and second Clinton administrations.
Rubin pushed through policies to deregulate the Banking Industry while in the Clinton Administration.
His post-government role was as director and senior counselor of Citigroup, From November to December 2007, he served temporarily as chairman of Citigroup and resigned from the company on January 9, 2009.
He received more than $126 million in cash and stock during his tenure at Citigroup, up through and including Citigroup's bailout by the U.S. Treasury.
Rubin sets up the Banking Deregulation gold rush, then joins it, then cashes in his chips, and walks away with a load of money.
But hey, when Central Planners fail, why not create some strawmen like the "Koch Brothers" and the "International Bankers" for the Financial Crisis rather than the central planner's corruption and failures?
Clinton gave the GOP some things (Nafta for example) and they in return let him raise taxes a tiny bit and cut the military budget a little. It's called working together.
However, today's GOP would rather let the country go down the tubes than accept a Black President.
And yes, Anonyomus, I DO believe the President. At least HE knows that the Senate is part of congress.
Say Dave,
How many democrats voted for the awful bill that Clinton DIDN'T veto?
Obama "fixed' the changes Clinton had made in the welfare system, the changes that Clinton had promised he would make before he left office, remember now Dave? The term MESS was a play one words, the changes Clinton was forced to make in the system reduced the numbers of Americans on welfare, but I guess in the minds of liberals that's not a good thing to do. Obama undid those changes and has returned the system to the same mess as it was before.
You don't have to be stupid and full of envy and anger to be a liberal but it sure helps.
These are the acts of war on women, along with not paying them as much if the work for the President as men are paid. Not requiring a women to pay for her own birth control.
Ten days before Democratic Party Chairwoman Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fl., accused Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s policies of hurting women and “grabbing us by the hair and pulling us back,” she went to bat for a New Mexico House candidate and lawyer who has defended abusive husbands, according to court documents.
Islamic State (IS) militants in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul have kidnapped a group of women fortunetellers and beheaded them.
Why won't we do this along our southern border?
Saudi Arabia has unveiled a 900km multi-layered fence along its border with Iraq, as part of efforts to secure the kingdom’s vast desert frontiers against infiltrators and smugglers, state media SPA has said.
MSNBC guest thinks we’re unfairly demonizing ISIS terrorists
A liberal no less, imagine that.
Has anyone notice how many of the ISIS fighters from America, come from Minnesota? Has anyone noticed how many of them come from MN 5th District? Has anyone noticed that the Congressman for the 5th District is a democrat?
Has anyone noticed that the democrat Congressman for District is a Muslim?
Just asking.
Mozart,
Why haven't you answer Harley's post?
Chuckie says,
"But hey, when Central Planners fail, why not create some strawmen like the "Koch Brothers" and the "International Bankers" for the Financial Crisis rather than the central planner's corruption and failures?
Well, first the Koch Brothers and the International Bankers are not "strawmen".
No, they are real men, and they have, and apply, great economic power to influence and corrupt elections and government.
Second, the real strawman here is the false accusation that anyone blames the Koch brothers and international bankers for the meltdown.
Yes, more classic RRBC projection.
We correctly blame those responsible.
Bill "NAFTA" Clinton and and his fellow corporatist Republicans. Yes the Greedy Oligarch Party were the "central planners" who wrote the deregulation and passed it through the House and Senate.
Brainwashed drones and shills like Chuckie can't see that of course. Their cult tells them only Democrats are corrupt "central planners".
Reasoning with them is out of the question. All they respond with is their cult's dogma, resentment, anger, and hate.
All they have are outright lies and thinly veiled dishonesty and deception.
Their is the ignorance and hate that fuels fascism.
Harry, you nailed it.
During his election campaign in 2008 and subsequent to his election that year Obama vilified Bush constantly for the collapse of the Banks and the melt down of the economy.
Yet here we see that with Robert Rubin and Bill Clinton, the rot set in before Bush came into office and was precipitated by the Democrats. It should be noted also that it was they who blocked Bush's efforts to regulate the subprime mortgage market.
In the Senate it was Obama, Biden, Reid et al who blocked that measure and insisted that mortgages continued to be offered to those who, it was manifestly obvious, were unable to repay them.
Harry,
Go Phrack yourself!
Reality is that both the Clinton's and O'Bummer's are right wing fascist plants who have done their job excellently for the top billionaires.
The Fascists knew that they needed democratic presidents to complete their job of takeover which is almost complete now.
O'Bummer is also "Not Change We Can Believe In." All lies and smoke and mirrors. We need Bernie Sanders to change to democrat and either he or Elizabeth Warren to run for president representing the "Real Democratic Party" of a people centered politics instead of the oligarical style we have now totally tied in with the most right wing elements.
It is time for us "Real Democrats" to take control of the agenda and throw the bums out and lock the door on them. No more right wing fascist Nazi Democrats anymore. Go to the Republican Tea Partiers where you belong and let us have a real battle for the "Heart and Soul of either America or Amerika."
Chuckie's pulling all the names he can think of out his anus.
Bush's efforts to regulate the subprime mortgage market.
HAA HA HA HA! Hilarious. Good one! And then the liberal demons praised Satan and burned Bush at the stake, right?
So how many Republicans voted for that awful Republican bill?
Crickets...
From ALL the Chicken Chuckies.
Saul Alinsky dedicated his most famous book to Lucifer.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.
And Dave, marxists like you will scream and foam at the mouth claiming that you aren't marxists. You aren't fooling anyone.
Watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM "Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown"
The accounting at Fannie and Freddie was as bad as Enron.
McCain and Bush proposed more regulation and reforming of Fannie and Freddie because they were getting out of control.
Barney Franks and Chuck "The Schmuck" Shumer defended the corrupt status quo of Fannie and Freddie as they were cash cows for contributing to Barney Fwanks and Chuck "The Schmucks" reelection campaigns.
Yeeeee haw! I just got done with suckin on ol' G dubs' wing wang! Fuck that community organizer, it's not like he killed Bin Laden who Bush the second let get away. It's not like Bush shut down the operation to get bin laden or anything completely fucking stupid like that. It's not like Bush illegally tortured people or lied us into Iraq! Right? Yee haw!
Terri Schiavo, a brain dead white woman was worth more to King George than thousands of drowning black people in New Orleans! That was my kind o pres!
He (Chuck Todd) showed Mr. Obama a chart of his 2014 State of the Union goals — immigration reform, tax overhaul, a minimum-wage increase, etc. — and only one had a check mark: aid to Syrian rebels. “A lot not accomplished here,” Mr. Todd said, later noting, “That was with a Democratic Senate.”
Sorry for the bad news, but the truth can rally suck sometimes if you're a democrat.
This just n,
Koch Brothers proven to be the anti-Christ by Dave "clean up in cell 378" Duyba.
His stupidity is what fuels his envy and desire for what others have worked to secure.
"Douglas McAuthur McCain, an American citizen from Minnesota, was killed in Syria while fighting with ISIS forces.
Obviously from a Republican family."
Dave (clean up in cell 50) Dubya Crap Dave, where do you come up with these lies?
"The Free Syrian Army claimed on Twitter that Douglas McAuthur McCain, a 33-year-old rapper, was one of several foreign militants who died during a clash. After confirming his death, Caitlin Hayden, a spokesperson for the National Security Council, said, "We continue to use every tool we possess to dissuade individuals from traveling abroad for violent jihad and to track and engage those who return."
McCain was born in Chicago and lived in Minnesota for several years before moving to San Diego. On Twitter, McCain's profile name was "Duale ThaslaveofAllah," and he said he converted to Islam about 10 years ago, calling it "the best thing that has ever happened." McCain's family was notified on Monday about his death, NBC News says, and on Facebook, a woman named Delecia McCain, who says she was McCain's sister, wrote, "I really don't understand why and how and I have no words. I never thought this will be the way say goodbye... This is absolutely unreal to me I love you big brother."
Read more about McCain and how he made his way to Syria at NBC News.
P.S. photos provided by the Huffington Post show the late terrorist to be some one who could have been President Obama's son, gasp!
Another former American in the service of ISIS from the 5th District of MN. But, let's talk about the Koch Brothers instead.
http://www.msnewsnow.com/clip/10559219/breaking-group-of-teenagers-caught-on-camera-beating-kroger-employee
"Obviously from a Republican family."
Bush's efforts to regulate the subprime mortgage market.
Yup, that's what can be proven by reviewing the Congressional Record and the WH press release from the day.
Sucks to be a wrong huh Dave?
The Washington Post recently published this article on the new $15 minimum wage law in SeaTac, Washington. The article states:
“… union workplaces are exempt…”
This exemption is wrong because the law is supposed to treat everyone equally.
But also, it is an extreme example of hypocrisy. It was unions who got the ball rolling on this $15 minimum wage. It was unions who said that all workers should be paid at least $15 an hour.
But now, these very same unions are getting an exemption from the very same law that they so strongly supported.
Would liberals please explain why union workshops got an exemption from SeaTac’s $15 minimum wage law that was initiated and supported by these very same unions?
Read more at http://iowntheworld.com/blog/#xjPYhJ1oWr5hzsz8.99
This comment has been removed by the author.
Douglas McAuthur McCain. Still obviously from a Republican family. Or do Democrats name their kids after Republicans too?
Saul Alinsky dedicated his most famous book to Lucifer.
LOL! No he didn’t. Wrong again. Just more RRBC cult propaganda. But we all know Chuckie has sold his soul to the Republican Party, corporate interests and mammon.
Aww, Chuckie is sharing some FOX(R) video with us. How fair and balanced! It was about Republicans doing their usual, and not totally unreasonable, attacks on Fannie and Freddie. Now we finally know the truth.LOL.
They were NOT warning of the deregulated derivatives, mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps that private banks were using to poison our economy. Nope. But it raises the question about how Bush contributed to the housing bubble.
Did Chuckie see the excellent comment below the video?
It is obvious from that the clip above is a piece of propaganda. George Bush clearly intended to lessen the down payment rules in order to get people to qualify for government backed mortgages.
I specifically said both parties were complicit. GWB had 8 years to change the situation and decided to double down on it instead. Here's my point: both parties are owned by the same oligarchs, who use the ruse of 2 parties to play a divide and conquer strategy.
Now THAT is the truth that Chuckie will deny and dodge.
Along with this:
"We can put light where there's darkness, and hope where there's despondency in this country. And part of it is working together as a nation to encourage folks to own their own home."- President George W. Bush, Oct. 15, 2002
And at the 2004 Republican Convention:
Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence…Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high. (APPLAUSE) Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home." - President George W. Bush
Economists have things like this to say about Fannie and Freddie:
Fannie and Freddie had nothing to do with the explosion of high-risk lending a few years ago. In fact, Fannie and Freddie, after growing rapidly in the 1990s, largely faded from the scene during the height of the housing bubble….Fannie and Freddie got into subprime junk and helped fuel the housing bubble, but they were trailing the irrational exuberance of the private sector. They lost market share in the years 2002-2007, as the volume of private issue mortgage backed securities exploded.
And this Republican said:
Economist N. Gregory Mankiw, who advised President Bush, wrote , "I recount this story not because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the main cause of the recent financial crisis -- they were only one element -- but because it shows the kind of problem we'll encounter on a larger scale as we reform oversight of the financial system."
“Only one element”, not the main cause, admits the Decider’s economist. Would Chuckie care to educate this confused man where he’s wrong? Naww, Chuckie’s already let this fact bounce off his thick skull.
Ah, and once again I must thank our classic case study of the extremist authoritarian personality.
Dave, marxists like you will scream and foam at the mouth claiming that you aren't marxists.
This sounds even better in the original German. Ach, so! Liberals are the “Marxist/Jews” of the Radical Right Reich and their Radical Right Bubble Cult.
His is the hate that fuels fascism.
Anonymous, why don't you tell us who your congressmen are? Remember to include your Senators as they are part of congress.
Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-described socialist, called for a progressive estate tax on multi-millionaires and billionaires during a speech on Saturday.
“A nation will not survive morally or economically when so few have so much while so many have so little,” Mr. Sanders said at the Vermont AFL-CIO annual convention.
“We need a tax system which asks the billionaire class to pay its fair share of taxes and which reduces the obscene degree of wealth inequality in America,” said Mr. Sanders, an independent who caucuses with the Democrats.
RUN BERNIE RUN!!
Sanders for President 2016
Eric Holder is en route to look into racial motivated renting. Tell high school students he did this once in order to establish a community.
Will investigate for possible hate crime by the former white tenants for making community leaders upset by living in their community.
Two women were arrested after they robbed and then intimidated three tenants out of their Brooklyn apartment — and the crime was partly motivated by race and class resentment, law enforcement sources said.
Precious Parker, 30, and Sabrina James, 23, knocked on the door of an apartment building on Ocean Ave. near Newkirk Ave. in Flatbush at 9:30 p.m. on Thursday and held a 34-year-old man, a 37-year-old man, and a 25-year-old woman at gunpoint demanding they move out or be killed, police said.
The women then stole $800, an iPhone and personal information from the tenants, police said.
The terrified residents left soon after, said a night porter, who declined to give his name.
“They just left,” he said. “They said somebody wants to kill them.”
The usurpers then squatted in the apartment, a law enforcement source said.
The source added the trio may have been targeted because of their race, as one of the women said she didn’t like “that white people were moving into the area,” the police source said.
Both women were arrested Saturday in the apartment and charged with robbery and unlawful imprisonment, police said.
Jury of their peers will decide their fate? That ought to be interesting.
Anaonymous changing the subject and avoiding answering questions agin. Go figure.
And the onlt "regulation" bush wanted on the mortgage market was NONE.
Facts and Anonymous are mutually exclusive concepts.
Would liberals please explain why union workshops got an exemption from SeaTac’s $15 minimum wage law that was initiated and supported by these very same unions?
Are all Righties this ignorant, helpless, and confused? Do they really think union workers are earning minimum wage?
Mozart,
Have you replied to Harley yet?
Dave,
You are a bigot!
Evidence of your profiling by name a person's political party:
" Douglas McAuthur McCain. Still obviously from a Republican family."
Liberal bigot!
"Or do Democrats name their kids after Republicans too? "
Try the name Lincoln on for size, bigot!
Every American should be required to read Solzhenitsyn's 1978 Harvard Address.
No one could have nailed us any better. Nor pissed off more of the ruling establishment. He was ignored, but he was spot on. If you want to understand the roadmap to where we sit today (and why we find ourselves inexplicably taking shots at each other when in reality we all basically want the same things).... read it.
Harley,
Great suggestion. I've read that.
Too bad your fellow "conservative" Chuckie refuses to read anything not approved by his Party. He proves one will never learn what one doesn't want to know.
Dave, You are a bigot! Evidence of your profiling by name a person's political party: "Douglas McAuthur McCain. Still obviously from a Republican family."
His family is irrelevant, of course. Chuckie however sees a sinister correlation between his sympathy for IS and his going to school in Minnesota. A true ignoramus and bigot would think just like Chuckie.
Chuckie is so easy to upset when I yank his chain. The hate spews reflexively.
Chuckie’s own words show who’s the real bigot.
P.S. photos provided by the Huffington Post show the late terrorist to be some one who could have been President Obama's son, gasp!
Has anyone notice how many of the ISIS fighters from America, come from Minnesota? Has anyone noticed how many of them come from MN 5th District? Has anyone noticed that the Congressman for the 5th District is a democrat? Has anyone noticed that the democrat Congressman for District is a Muslim?
This gibberish is meaningless in all senses save one.
Born in Chicago. Went to High School in MN, and moved to California. Yup, all the makings of a terrorist in the bigoted view of Chuckie. So who’s really doing the racial/religious profiling here?
His is the hate that fuels fascism.
Harley,
Unlike Chuckie, I think you and I share the perspective given in the comment under Chuckie's FOX (R) youtube video.
It is obvious from that the clip above is a piece of propaganda. George Bush clearly intended to lessen the down payment rules in order to get people to qualify for government backed mortgages.
I specifically said both parties were complicit. GWB had 8 years to change the situation and decided to double down on it instead. Here's my point: both parties are owned by the same oligarchs, who use the ruse of 2 parties to play a divide and conquer strategy.
Now THAT is the truth that Chuckie will deny and dodge.
I will reply to Harly when he decides to care enough repeat the question. As for you, as long as you dodge simple questions and continue to prove you have no clue how our government works, I could not care less about answering anymore of YOUR questions.
I will reply to Harly when he decides to care enough repeat the question. As for you, as long as you dodge simple questions and continue to prove you have no clue how our government works, I could not care less about answering anymore of YOUR questions.
OK... after going through all the posts I FINALLY found "Harley's" silly question
My rational for disbeliefe in God? NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT ANY GOD EXISTS.
And one does not need a "god" to be moral. It's just better for the human race if we treat each other with kindness and a fairness.
If you are being "good" because you want an eternal reward, or yuou fear eternal punishment you are doing it for the wrong reasons, and if a "god DID exist, you'd think he'd realize that.
If you are doing it just because you are a good person you don't need a "god".
There Anonymous, happy now?
So...
WHO ARE YOUR CONGRESSMEN?
Methinks that "Harley" and "Anonymous" are the same person.
Go figure. He's probably all the other stupid conservatives here as well.
Harley, who are your congressmen?
Any bets he'll decline to answer?
Mozart -
Notice, I didn't demand that you answer my question. Nor will I ever. In fact, I already knew the gist of what your answer would be. It is the typical illogical non-answer I was expecting. And, I can assure you, I do not post under any other name than HarleyA.
Nor is the question a silly question. It may be (to you) a question with an obvious answer, but it is certainly not a silly question. Well, unless countless great philosophical minds throughout world history who have grappled with it can be discounted. Your answer on the other hand...
Your answer, as most of your fare out here, is in the typical language of a simpleton I've come to expect. Someone with as little in his arsenal as you should lower the rhetorical temperature a bit. And, I don't mean to say you are a low intellect, I mean to say you cannot (or do not) argue - rather, you spout.
Sorry if that offends, but it is the truth. Sometimes one needs to hear the truth. You should devote some time to really analyzing your response - you may find the error(s) in it. I won't bother to point them out as you are no doubt closed to any instruction by me.
Good day.
Mozart, furthermore...
I will respond to your question about my Congressman when you care enough to repeat it...
I couldn't resist.
Noticed how I answered harley's question honestly and logically, and he responds by calling me stupid?
Typical conservative response.
So I'll ask you THIS Harley...
WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE OF THE EXISTANCE OF A "GOD"?
WHY DOES ONE NEED A "GOD" TO BE MORAL?
DEFINE MORALITY.
This should be good.
Noticed how I answered harley's question honestly and logically, and he responds by calling me stupid?
Typical conservative response.
So I'll ask you THIS Harley...
WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE OF THE EXISTANCE OF A "GOD"?
WHY DOES ONE NEED A "GOD" TO BE MORAL?
DEFINE MORALITY.
This should be good.
Mozart,
You answered maybe honestly, but far from logically.
And, you need to reread. I was careful to say I was not calling you "stupid". I said a simpleton, which is a different thing altogether. I said I was NOT claiming your were of low intellect. Your understanding of morality is clearly very un-thoughtout and simple. It goes no further than the group-think of our post-modern world.
Morality is an absolute concept by definition. It can be nothing else. Without an authoritative law giver, you cannot have true morality. So, in a godless, material world, you can have your opinion and your preference as to what is good and true, but you cannot have any basis upon which to claim that I or anyone else should agree with you. Morality becomes relative to the individual - as it basically is in our autonomous, individualistic society. And, therefore nonexistent. You cannot have it both ways.
In fact, in a godless, material world you can make NO argument for ANY metaphysical concept - morality, truth, love, etc. So, in fact, I challenge you with the same burden - provide to me with one shred of evidence that morality exists. How can your concept of good or evil be anythign other than defined and informed deterministically by the DNA you evolved with?
Now to the question of the evidence for the existence of God. Vast topic. For one... That anything should exist. Unless you are a believer in an "ex nihilo" self-created universe, which flies in the face of reason and logic. When you come across a house or a fence, you do not wonder how such a thing came to be - you know how it came to be. Those are very simple objects with an extremely low level of complexity in design.
The evidence for a Creator is so strong as to require an answer as to how existence could have come to be without a Creator. The burden of proof is actually in your lap, friend.
Very short and incomplete, but sufficient for the forum.
Now explain to me your cosmology if you will... and explain to me why your basis for your moral code...
My Senators are Jerry Moran and Pat Roberts
My Representatives are Tim Huelskamp, Lynn Jenkins, Kevin Yoder, Mike Pompeo
"This should be good".
You really should not mess around with Harley, I think "never mind" is highly appropriate in this instance.
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned that the “new world order is emerging” and that “Iran will have a strong role in creating” it, according to a Farsi language transcript of Khamenei’s remarks late last week to the country’s Assembly of Experts.
Iran will lead this “new world order” that will replace American influence as capitalism and Western influence collapses, according to Khamenei, who underwent surprise prostate surgery on Monday.
“Iran will have a strong role in creating the new world order,” Khamenei said, explaining that Tehran will expand its already growing influence in Latin America and even Asia.
At last your wait is over Dave, socialism is coming to America.
Has anyone notice how many of the ISIS fighters from America, come from Minnesota? Has anyone noticed how many of them come from MN 5th District? Has anyone noticed that the Congressman for the 5th District is a democrat? Has anyone noticed that the democrat Congressman for District is a Muslim?
More creditable that the 9-11 was an inside job believers. Or those who blame the Koch's for all the failures at the polls by liberals.
Mozart,
What say you now?
So Harley answers with nonsensical mumbo jumbo, neglecting to explain WHY one needs a "God" to be "Moral"
He never answered a single one of my questions. Go figure.
SHOW ACTUAL EVIDENCE A "GOD" EXISTS"
EXPLAIN WHY A PERSON NEEDS A GOD TO BE MORAL
DEFINE "MORALITY"
He couldn't do it so he replied with BS, and fellow conservatives applauded him for it.
I CAN Be a good person without any "God" threatening punisshment or promising eternal bliss (like 72 virgins)
I do it because from an EVOLUTIONARY standpoint it's better for us ALL if we treat each other with respect and kindness. Besides, everyone wants to be liked rather than disliked, and treating people with respect and kindness works to that end.
What good does it do anyone to treat certain people like second class citizens just because they don't think EXACTLY the way we want them to? Eventually those people are going to get tired of being treated badly and do things that are detrimental to society at large. Who needs that?
Oh, and yes, calling me a "simpleton" is the same as calling me "stupid". It's disrespectful and unneccesary. But I guess when the facts are against you it's all you have left to make yourself feel superior.
Oh and Harley, the "Burden of proof" is in the lap of the one making the positive claim. Ona cannot prove a negative.
For example, PROVE that a flying spagetti monster DOESN'T exist.
You can't. So by your logic, it DOES.
More and more things once thought to be "God" are explained scientifically. The Sun does not revolve around the Earth for example. The Earth is NOT the "center of the universe".
Don't get me staterd on the creation myth, or Noah's ark.
Mozart,
Your spaghetti monster reference (a la Dawkins) is one of the more tired and worn and refutable nonsensical statements that is usually trotted out. By the way, that light-weight has been owned in so many debates, he likely will rarely debate anymore (heard from him lately? I haven't).
First, the "you can't prove a negative" isn't going to get you off the hook so easily. The problem with that escape hatch that atheists like to pull is this. That "negative" can be stated in the positive. So, show me evidence that our universe came into existence "ex nihilo" and created itself - no negative involved here. Show me any analogous observation you personally have or any scientific insight you personally have that would lend credibility to a universe that leapt into being from nothing. Because, as of now, the preponderance of the scientific community would assert a beginning to the universe.
I DID show you evidence for a creative God. THAT ANYTHING SHOULD EXIST IS THE OBVIOUS EVIDENCE - though not only. By the way, disbelief is not an intellectual problem - it is (ironically) a moral issue. It is denial of God. It is not where you want to be.
Does a "flying spaghetti monster" exist? It may, but I have no evidence upon which to believe it - that is why it is such a "stupid" concept by Dawkins - it actually illustrates the anti-thesis of his point (which he does often). Does a personal God who was the author of all things exist? Absolutely, based on the preponderance of the evidence, a man would be foolish to believe otherwise.
Your evolutionary morality (again) makes no sense. And, I did define morality for you. Evolutionary morality would, by definition NOT be absolute. It would have to be based on your DNA and subject to evolutionary change and eventual natural selection as to which morality is best. The "morality" of the stronger will likely prevail. In that sense your "evolutionary morality" (which is non-morality) will have the opposite outcome you intend. In fact, ONLY an absolute morality given by a good and fair law-giver could achieve your ends. The concepts of mercy, grace, truth, love will never "evolve". Again, the preponderance of evidence is against you, if you observe humankind. Your evolutionary god does not look to the betterment of "all of us" - you need to study evolutionary theory so you don't continue to misuse it.
How about providing some evidence the magical sky fairy 'leapt into existence', since you're so sure he exists.
At least science predicted, THEN discovered evidence that the Big Bang theory is a solid hypothesis (cosmic microwave background radiation).
Maybe that theory will prove not to be right in time, but what proof do you have that the magic sky fairy crossed his arms and blinked like Jeannie, and the Universa 'leapt into existence)?
"God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it." - Carl Sagan
DE-Bill
The Big Bang Theory (right or wrong) is massive evidence FOR a creator - not against a Creator. That's easy. It posits a beginning. It far more fits a theistic framework than an atheistic one. That being should exist, that reason should exist, that logic should exist, that love should exist, that the concepts of good/evil should exist - all of these point to an uncaused rational, first cause.
He didn't "leap into being" - he always was. That's why He explained himself to Moses as "I AM" - it's all very coherent. It's so simple a 5 year old can get it. But, too much for men to grapple with who want to flee the implications.
The Big Bang doesn't solve the atheists' problem, it magnifies it.
You are confusing scientific laws with agency. Laws don't create - they are observed. And laws we observe give the indication of rationality, purpose and being. All of which cannot (a rational man would agree) come from nothingness.
Guys, we can go back and forth all day. Keep the faith in your universe (complete with rational beings with emotions, desires, creativity, purpose, etc.) that sprang from an unknown nothingness and eventually evolved merely by time and chance into a purposeful metaphysical reality sans a rational first cause. Good luck with it...
I'll stick to the reality of our Creator.
Crickets.
The Rest of Us -
Sorry to bother you with my babbling. I hear they're talking about Obama's suits over in the next room... good stuff. I'm pretty sure there's room for you.
Harley,
Although I very much appreciate your thoughtful and earnest discussion, I must say re: Rest of US; I vote for best, and funniest of the entire thread.
Cheers to you, brother!
Wow, that's convenient. Using the bible to prove god's existence is about as rational as using Dr. Suess to prove the Cat in the Hat exists.
Last thought DE_Bill...
I was not aiming to PROVE via the biblical reference. I was using the illustration to explain the patently obvious reality that God is the uncaused self-existent first cause of all of the reality I observe. And, to add rejoinder to your confused and mixed metaphor, what I WOULD do vis-à-vis "The Cat in the Hat" if I came across it on a table is assume there was an author involved in its creation - not assume the book (materially and/or rationally) had sprung into being by itself.
DD - I do try to keep it light so as not to pull my hair out :)
"Cynical you say? Yeah, maybe. I look at it this way: We're given two choices in life - to either laugh or cry. I choose the latter. So sue me."
Are you sure you didn't mean to say that you choose the former? I've been reading your column for a long time and you are always full of giggles for the abysmal condition the US the falling deeper into. Example:
"that's always good for a giggle. I'm completely serious when I say that the fall of America is the funniest thing..."
Señor Grammar says thank you for your blog!
p.s. The Captcha things sucks balls. It's about impossible to read one of the words.
DE_Bill -
I said last thought, but had to share a funny moment with you that reminded me of the blog conversation.
I just sat down in my library for some late night reading ,and sitting on my coffee table (oddly and for some unknown reason) is my teenage daughter's copy of "Cattus Petasatus" - "The Cat in the Hat" in Latin.
Harley, Look, YOU claim ther IS a "god" so the burden of proof is on YOU. And Just becayse science hasnn't explained EVEYTHING (yet) does NOT mean there MUST be a "God"
Your analogies would not succeed in a high school debate, let alone a court of law where actual evidence is required.
As it is, there is not now, nor has there ever been the slightesr shred of actual evidence that any "god" exists.
It's the 21st century. We should be past all the mythological nonsense by now.In fact, most of us are.
Your calkim That Richard Dawson has been beaten in debates is the same kind of logic Anonymous uses when he says You have beaten me. You are lying unconsious on the ground and claim victory because my knuckles are bloody from beating you down. That's not how it works.
There have been over 5,000 "gods" in human history. Atheists simply believe in one less of them than you do.
Show ACTUAL MEASUREABLE OBSERVABLE EVIDENCE that a "god" exisys, or shut the fuck up.
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