Into the Abyss
I finally figured it out last evening. It came to me like a loud bell in the night. It is so obvious, how could I have missed the clues? What I am about to reveal might floor you so brace yourselves: The entire Tea Party phenomena is a left wing plot to destroy the Republican Party.
Ted Cruz is a Communist plant. His entire family are agents of Fidel Castro! Think about it: Teddy Boy's dear old dad fought alongside Castro on the fifties and was instrumental in overthrowing the Batista regime. He now claims that he had no idea that the Bearded One was a commie. YEAH, RIGHT! NUDGE! NUDGE! WINK! WINK! After the evil-doers had that island in their treacherous claws, and Batista was safely living in disgraced exile, Fidel sent Papa Cruz over here by way of Canada - CLEVER! He was even able to fix himself up with an American wife. The perfect front! Old Man Cruz has been doing Castro's dirty deeds ever since. He was even able to enlist his half-witted kid into the cause. There is no other logical explanation - none.
Whether or not Ted is a willing participant in this conspiracy remains to be seen. My guess is that he is not. I mean, let's face it - the guy is just so dumb. Whatever the case, the team of father and son have done their work well. As I write these words the "party of Abraham Lincoln" is self-destructing thanks in large part to commie-dupe, Ted Cruz. He has talked the Grand Old Party into cheerfully committing political suicide. I submit to you that Ted's dad is the Albert Einstein of international espionage.
But seriously, folks....
Each day it's getting weirder. We're two weeks into the complete shutdown of the government and a couple of days away from a possible default on our debt - which would mean economic catastrophe - not only in this doomed country, but worldwide. When this happens (and I'm willing to bet that it will) the right wing scream machine will smugly announce, "See? Big government doesn't work!". This is all quite amusing, don'cha think?
But seriously, folks....
Each day it's getting weirder. We're two weeks into the complete shutdown of the government and a couple of days away from a possible default on our debt - which would mean economic catastrophe - not only in this doomed country, but worldwide. When this happens (and I'm willing to bet that it will) the right wing scream machine will smugly announce, "See? Big government doesn't work!". This is all quite amusing, don'cha think?
On Inauguration Day 2017, a Democratic administration will hand over the reigns of power to another Democratic administration. Do you know when the last time that happened? March 4, 1857, when Franklin Pierce tossed the keys to the White House to stuffy old James Buchanan. It hasn't happened since. Check the history books. Not only that, the first black president might very well bequeath the office to the first woman president. Interestingly, the Democrats of 1857 were a party chock-full of racists and (obviously) sexists. Had they known of this possibility they would have disbanded the party right then and there. The history books overflow with juicy little ironies like that one.
The GOP is within five years of disappearing completely. They have devolved from the "party of Abraham Lincoln" to the party of Uncle Fester. George W. Bush will be remembered for two reasons:
1. For being the most corrupt, insanely incompetent chief executive in the history of human stupidity and....
2. For being the last Republican president. There will never be another one. The grand old party is over.
How ironic that a political party founded on the principal that the black man should be liberated from bondage would commit suicide over the first African American being elected president.
Isn't life strange?
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED READING:
Bloody Crimes
by James Swanson
Two stories are interwoven here: The last days and funeral of Abraham Lincoln, and the flight and capture of Jefferson Davis. A few years ago this same author wrote a book about the hunt for John Wilkes Booth. Both of them I couldn't put down. Swanson is a first rate historian.
posted by Tom Degan @ 10:57 AM
112 comments
112 Comments:
Wow that's great Tom!! In five short years there will be no one speaking against the sharing of your medical records used by ACA with law enforcement!! No one opposed to increase spending and taxes. No one to support our military, cause we wont need one because the rest of the world will love us with the GOP gone.
And all illegals will then be legal citizens without going through any kind of back ground check. Surely in five years there will be no need for voter ID as their will be just party to vote for, the Democrats.
Pure heaven, I can't wait!
On October 8, THE WEEKLY STANDARD reported that the privacy policy of the Maryland Health Connection (MHC), the state's Obamacare insurance marketplace, included a statement that the marketplace "may share information provided in your application with the appropriate authorities for law enforcement and audit activities."
An email had been sent to the MHC on October 3 requesting clarification of the policy, and included these inquires: Does that include both federal and state authorities? What type of information from the application might be of interest to law enforcement and/or state/federal auditors? However, no response was received before the story was published.
A follow up email sent to the MHC a day after the story ran was answered by the MHC with the promise of a response the following day, but none was forthcoming. A third email sent on Friday, October 11, was finally answered late that evening by communications manager Betsy Charlow.
Her full response reads as follows:
The Maryland Health Connection Privacy Policy has been developed in compliance with federal regulations codified at 45 C.F.R. § 155.260 and 45 C.F.R. § 155.280 to ensure consumer protections and operations of the insurance marketplace. Like all state agencies, we are required to respond to certain requests from law enforcement.
When the GOP goes away, we wont have to worry our little sheep brains on these things any longer.
(1) It was passed by legislative manipulation, not regular order. (2) It was signed by the President only after he promised an Executive Order banning abortion (Bart Stupak Amendment) which he subsequently allowed to expire. (3) It was only upheld by the Supreme court as a Tax which is directly contradictory to what the Administration promised. and (4) It costs three times more than originally promised when passed.
Before Passage of the law the proponents of Obamacare said:
1) Obamacare will cut the deficit – It will not, to the contrary it will explode the deficit.
2) Obamacare would be crafted in the open on CSPAN – It was not the entire thing was constructed in secrecy. “You have to pass it to find out what’s in it”.
3) Obamacare will cover everyone – It will not, there are estimated to be 30 million still uninsured even after full rollout.
4) Obamacare will be available for review online 5 days prior to signing – Never happened.
5) If you like your current plan you can keep it – Hundreds of thousands of people are losing their current coverage daily.
6) Obamacare will not cover abortions – It does, and it funds Planned Parenthood as a Healthcare provider.
7) Obamacare will not cover illegals – It does, there is no citizenship requirement for Obamacare coverage.
8) Obamacare is not a tax – It is, the only way it could be found remotely constitutional was if the mandate was considered a tax.
9) Obamacare would be bi-partisan – Not.Even.Close, not a single Republican amendment permitted. 100% passed by Democrats in 09′.
10) Obamacare would create millions of new jobs – To the contrary, the healthcare sector of the economy is laying people off for the first time in decades.
11) Obamacare would cover the 35–40 million currently uninsured – Yes. However, it’s estimated that an additional 30 million who currently have healthcare would now be without it specifically because of Obamacare. So no gain, just a switch in population.
Oh yeah, and it’s been upheld by the Supreme Court – Yeah, so what? As mentioned that was only possible by interpreting the law to be a tax, and even still the Fugitive Slave Act was a law challenged to SCOTUS and slavery was upheld in the Dred Scott case. So what’s that point about?
The fact that a healthcare system drives the Tea Cult bananas is revealing. Obamacare is the "tyranny" that must not hold.
Meanwhile, the Republicans don't seem to mind opposing drug war reform and Warrantless NSA surveillance.
But put Obama's name on it and its "commanism". As we've noted:
ACA More Popular than "Obamacare" with Republicans
Some examples of GOP disregard for real abuses by government:
Amash and Conyers submitted a bill to address corporate/NSA surveillance. What happened?
Let’s check the House votes, shall we?
House Amash Amendment:
Republican 94 Y - 134 N
Democrats 111 Y - 83 N
Looks like the House needs cleaning.
Better prioritize and attack the healthcare system.
How about the drug war ?
A bipartisan group of Congress members are proposing legislation to bridge the gap between the federal prohibition against medical marijuana and state-level laws that allow it. Under HR 6134, individuals who are using marijuana for medical purposes in accordance with their state’s laws will be better able to defend themselves against federal law. The bill also makes it more difficult for the federal government to seize and destroy marijuana paraphernalia. A coalition of 16 House Democrats and 3 House Republicans — including Reps. Ron Paul (R-TX), Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA), and Justin Amash (R-MI) — have signed on to support the legislation.
16 Dems, 3 Republicans. Again the party of lesser votes controlling the House is the problem.
Help us GOOP! Shut down our government over those death panels.
LOL!
They've been taken over by nuts.
Government healthcare is proven to be a good thing...again.
“Rapid CDC response to meningitis outbreak from tainted steroid saved lives”
Thank you CDC.
And NO thanks to the Tea Party.
Did the President read the ACA before he signed it?
BAAA-BAAAA-BAAAA
The San Francisco Chronicle published an article yesterday about how to take advantage of federal Obamacare subsidies, with the ominous headline “Lower 2014 income can net huge health care subsidy.”
The author, Kathleen Pender, correctly points out that there is now a huge and abrupt “cliff” in health care costs for many Americans: earn $1 more than the prescribed limit for being on the federal health-subsidy dole, and you’ll have to pay many thousands — even tens of thousands — of dollars more next year for health insurance than you would otherwise. So obviously the smart thing to do would be to find ways to “lower your income.”
After recommending a few accounting tricks (but also noting that most standard tricks won’t work), on page 2 of the article Pender gets to the point:
“You can also consider reducing your 2014 income by working just a bit less.”
This, right here, is the toxic essence of the welfare state. It’s already been proven over and over that for the lower classes, welfare incentivizes permanent dependence: Since one gets more money receiving a raft of federal entitlements than one would get earning a salary at a low-level job, it’s a rational economic decision to remain unemployed, on purpose. Which millions of Americans do, generation after generation, creating a permanent underclass that only consumes the common treasury without ever contributing anything to it.
What Obamacare does, as demonstrated by this eye-opening article, is bring the same economic disincentive to the middle class: It is now a rational economic decision for the average American to earn less money. And to earn less you must work less, and when you work less, you contribute less to the common good.
With people intentionally contributing less to the common good, there will be less federal money available to finance the subsidies (which are fiscally unaffordable even without this problem), leading to an unavoidable downward economic spiral for the entire nation.
This, right here, is the toxic essence of the welfare state.
"Waahhh, waaahh, waaah! Healthcare is tyranny!! Waaah, waaahh!"
Toxic?
Shut down the CDC and you'll see the toxic effect of the poison Tea Cult. Deny patients due to pre-existing conditions and you'll see the toxic effect of the poison Tea Cult.
So what's the Tea Cult's sane and compassionate alternative healthcare plan?
.....not a peep. Just "Waahhh waaahh waaah!" All we've seen so far is "Shut it down and let 'em die".
What a bunch of hateful, angry idiots. They make a prison guard look like a sane and compassionate genius. LOL!!!
Show us your plan, Einstein. Betcha 10,000 bucks you can't. LOL!
"After having thus taken each individual one by one into its powerful hands, and having molded him as it pleases, the sovereign power extends its arms over the entire society; it covers the surface of society with a network of small, complicated, minute, and uniform rules, which the most original minds and the most vigorous souls cannot break through to go beyond the crowd; it does not break wills, but it softens them, bends them and directs them; it rarely forces action, but it constantly opposes your acting; it does not destroy, it prevents birth; it does not tyrannize, it hinders, it represses, it enervates, it extinguishes, it stupefies, and finally it reduces each nation to being nothing more than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd."
[Alexis de Tocqueville Democracy in America]
EXITUS ACTA PROBAT
"Obamacare is tyranny." - Alexis de Nutville
Just to be clear, I want everybody here on Toms and Dave Alinsky Dubya's blog to know where I stand on our deficit spending problem! Where I stand is summed up nicely in the smooth talking speech I made in the Senate:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006.
What changed today:
Republicans have nixed their plan for a two-year delay on a controversial medical device tax slated to raise $30 billion for Obamacare. President Obama told House Democratic leaders that he would veto any bill that stripped Obamacare subsidies from senior government executives and their staffers. Shortly before 6:00 p.m., Republicans delayed a Rules Committee meeting needed to move their proposal along toward a final vote, raising suspicions that the real action could be pushed back until Wednesday.
GOP wanted to end the tax on medical devices, you know a tax on things like heart pace makers, things that save peoples lives and under Obama Care would cost those in need more to have, to save their lives!
President wants ACA subsides for those who have good paying jobs, IE senior government executives and their staffers. But you and the rest of Mr. and Mrs. America, tough shit, pay up now, pay full scale, you are just a part of the great unwashed. (Recall Reid's statement about the smell of those visiting Wash D.C.?)
This is what the liberalism looks like today, privileged govt bureaucrats, raking it in. Just like the govt bureaucrats did under Saddam Hussein.
Just like the Unions are getting sweet heart deals, just like the BIG corporations are.
So blame the GOP all you want for trying to stop this pile of crap and keep asking what the GOP has to offer instead. I can tell you this, if the GOP had the same amount of years to develop a "plan" and came up with this failure of a plan that the Dem's are trying to shove down Americas throat, I'd be on their case as well. But not the die hard liberals. Not one word, just follow the party line. All the time calling for compromise from the GOP and yet turning down every attempt to compromise.
Shame on you sheep supporters of your Shepherd Obama, have you no vision of what is workable and and what is not?
Shame on you for defending the obvious lies that have been told about the benefits of ACA, like it will create jobs, you can keep our Dr, it will cost less, like it will not pay for abortions.
LIES!
Shame on you for not addressing these points but instead pointing the finger at the party not in control of the WH or Senate. The party who did NOT create this train wreck.
Shame on you for not having the intellectual honesty to hold an open debate about the ACA.
Now this is where Dave comes out of his recliner and attacks instead thinking about the truths that have just been posted.
You ready Dave?
Time to defend the lies of the ACA
Tom, I wish we had a single payer insurance system (medicare for all) in this country so the wing-nuts that comment on your blog could get the psychological treatment they so desperately need.
They have been brainwashed to fight against their own interests. For example, their opposition to 'socialized medicine' paved the way for the cluser-fuck called Obamacare.
I predict that the current standoff will form the core of the republican platform in coming years as the enforced payers, uninsured and under-covered become disenchanted due to all the warts in the so called affordable-health-care. Not that this will make any difference, if you understand how the NSA surveillance can be utilized to circumvent any democratic input by the electorate. The only relevance of campaign platforms is as embroidery on the curtains that the man stands behind.
I agree with John,
These NAZI KKK tea bagging nut jobs are holding America hostage!
After MA elected their "Native American" to Senate, nothing the Democrats lie about surprises me any more.
The American Indian leader spearheading the campaign to change the name of the Washington Redskins is not a legitimate member of the tribe he leads, according to a New York State Assemblywoman, but rather an Obama crony who is raking in casino money and paying back only small stipends to his tribe members.
Oneida Nation Representative Ray Halbritter, who is also the CEO of Oneida Nation Enterprises, is not recognized in his position by the Grand Council of Chiefs governing the Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy. Halbritter is not a legitimate member of the Oneida tribe, Assemblywoman Claudia Tenney told The Daily Caller.
“He is not even technically an Oneida. There is not a drop of Oneida in him,” Tenney said. [...]
Halbritter attended a January 27, 2012 fundraiser with President Obama in Washington, D.C. with 70 Indian leaders. The $15,000 to $35,800 fundraiser raised up to $2.5 million for Obama’s re-election campaign.
Tom's source of ideas!
thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/14/2777891/coming-war-white-people/
Next on the REMAKING OF AMERICA 1.2 will be liberals bringing up Amnesty.
It is interesting that the liberal answer to "30 million" Americans with out health is to make 20 million new citizens. Even more interesting is the liberals say the illegal problem can not be fixed without changing the current laws which are not be enforced, BUT, refuse to even think about changing ACA, which must be obeyed even though it is not workable.
Liberal tactics will include use of the Race Card, blaming of TEA PARTY, GOP. NRA, etc. Can wait to see how Tom and DAVE DUBYA join in with the next set of talking points.
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anyone anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You can not multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them; and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Next on the REMAKING OF AMERICA 1.2 will be liberals bringing up Amnesty.
It is interesting that the liberal answer to "30 million" Americans with out health is to make 20 million new citizens. Even more interesting is the liberals say the illegal problem can not be fixed without changing the current laws which are not be enforced, BUT, refuse to even think about changing ACA, which must be obeyed even though it is not workable.
Liberal tactics will include use of the Race Card, blaming of TEA PARTY, GOP. NRA, etc. Can wait to see how Tom and DAVE DUBYA join in with the next set of talking points.
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anyone anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You can not multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them; and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
What talking points? Oh, the un-sourced plagiarized 5 bits of Right Wing resentments and ignorance. Well what can we expect, considering the source is a Bible thumping Armageddonist, Adrian “End Times” Rogers. Yeah he’s rational all right.
Because I’m feeling lazy as Anonymous Chuckie, I’ll return that favor with a couple un-credited sane responses.
1 - Very true. However, is anyone trying to legislate the wealthy out of prosperity? I've yet to see anyone even close to mainstream American politics try that.
2 - Right... assuming there's direct equality to begin with and one taxpayer per recipient of welfare. The faulty logic here is that by giving, say, food stamps to a poor person, you're not exactly knocking a singular other person down to the poverty level. Trying to create a one-to-one comparison of a recipient of welfare and some singular, faceless, "it could be you" payer is quite the breach of logic. (You may want to refer to the numbers on welfare recipients vs. working Americans below for an example of how faulty this sentence's "logic" really is)
3 - See #2... you've rehashed the same statement.
4 - This really doesn't mean anything. Nice platitude. No substance to discuss, unfortunately.
5 - Yeah, because half the population is on welfare? Don't know where you or your copy/paste email get half, but it certainly does sound scary when you conveniently leave out... y'know... facts.
====
'1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
No one is doing that. Progressive taxaion does not 'legislate anyone out of prosperity'.
'2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.'
Not true. For one thing, this is assuming that there is enough work for everyone to do. The main problem about 'people on welfare' is that there is unemployment - people unable to get jobs. Also, many of the people who 'receive without working' are not of working age: children and the elderly.
Yet more fundamentally, this is assuming that it is all a matter of taking from some individuals to give to other individuals. In fact, it is a question of society giving, and society taking. People pay taxes and social security contributions during their working lives, and in return they gain a pension when they are no longer able to work; publicly funded education for their children; public transport and maintenance of roads so that they can get safely from A to B; protection by police and emergency services; etc. etc.
Just as everyone receives benefits, everyone pays taxes - through VAT/ sales taxes, if not other taxes.
The idea that there is a division between taxpayers (who don't get benefits but are slaving to benefit others) and benefit recipients (who don't pay taxes) is a vile, mean-spirited and ignorant distortion of society.
'3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. '
Not true; see under (2).
'4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!'
You cannot use it effectively without dividing it. This is as true within a family or a private business as within society as a whole.
'5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.'
Possibly. But no nation has ever been run in this way, including communist countries.
=====
There.
Now when are you going show us your sane and compassionate alternative for healthcare?
LOL!!!
epublicans have nixed their plan for a two-year delay on a controversial medical device tax slated to raise $30 billion for Obamacare. President Obama told House Democratic leaders that he would veto any bill that stripped Obamacare subsidies from senior government executives and their staffers. Shortly before 6:00 p.m., Republicans delayed a Rules Committee meeting needed to move their proposal along toward a final vote, raising suspicions that the real action could be pushed back until Wednesday.
GOP wanted to end the tax on medical devices, you know a tax on things like heart pace makers, things that save peoples lives and under Obama Care would cost those in need more to have, to save their lives!
President wants ACA subsides for those who have good paying jobs, IE senior government executives and their staffers. But you and the rest of Mr. and Mrs. America, tough shit, pay up now, pay full scale, you are just a part of the great unwashed. (Recall Reid's statement about the smell of those visiting Wash D.C.?)
This is what the liberalism looks like today, privileged govt bureaucrats, raking it in. Just like the govt bureaucrats did under Saddam Hussein.
Just like the Unions are getting sweet heart deals, just like the BIG corporations are.
So blame the GOP all you want for trying to stop this pile of crap and keep asking what the GOP has to offer instead. I can tell you this, if the GOP had the same amount of years to develop a "plan" and came up with this failure of a plan that the Dem's are trying to shove down Americas throat, I'd be on their case as well. But not the die hard liberals. Not one word, just follow the party line. All the time calling for compromise from the GOP and yet turning down every attempt to compromise.
Shame on you sheep supporters of your Shepherd Obama, have you no vision of what is workable and and what is not?
Shame on you for defending the obvious lies that have been told about the benefits of ACA, like it will create jobs, you can keep our Dr, it will cost less, like it will not pay for abortions.
LIES!
Shame on you for not addressing these points but instead pointing the finger at the party not in control of the WH or Senate. The party who did NOT create this train wreck.
Shame on you for not having the intellectual honesty to hold an open debate about the ACA.
epublicans have nixed their plan for a two-year delay on a controversial medical device tax slated to raise $30 billion for Obamacare. President Obama told House Democratic leaders that he would veto any bill that stripped Obamacare subsidies from senior government executives and their staffers. Shortly before 6:00 p.m., Republicans delayed a Rules Committee meeting needed to move their proposal along toward a final vote, raising suspicions that the real action could be pushed back until Wednesday.
GOP wanted to end the tax on medical devices, you know a tax on things like heart pace makers, things that save peoples lives and under Obama Care would cost those in need more to have, to save their lives!
President wants ACA subsides for those who have good paying jobs, IE senior government executives and their staffers. But you and the rest of Mr. and Mrs. America, tough shit, pay up now, pay full scale, you are just a part of the great unwashed. (Recall Reid's statement about the smell of those visiting Wash D.C.?)
This is what the liberalism looks like today, privileged govt bureaucrats, raking it in. Just like the govt bureaucrats did under Saddam Hussein.
Just like the Unions are getting sweet heart deals, just like the BIG corporations are.
So blame the GOP all you want for trying to stop this pile of crap and keep asking what the GOP has to offer instead. I can tell you this, if the GOP had the same amount of years to develop a "plan" and came up with this failure of a plan that the Dem's are trying to shove down Americas throat, I'd be on their case as well. But not the die hard liberals. Not one word, just follow the party line. All the time calling for compromise from the GOP and yet turning down every attempt to compromise.
Shame on you sheep supporters of your Shepherd Obama, have you no vision of what is workable and and what is not?
Shame on you for defending the obvious lies that have been told about the benefits of ACA, like it will create jobs, you can keep our Dr, it will cost less, like it will not pay for abortions.
LIES!
Shame on you for not addressing these points but instead pointing the finger at the party not in control of the WH or Senate. The party who did NOT create this train wreck.
Shame on you for not having the intellectual honesty to hold an open debate about the ACA.
What? Still no alternative healthcare, other than "Shut it down and let 'em die"? Of course not.
When the GOP had total control of every branch of the Federal government they completely ignored healthcare, apart from wanting to gut Medicare.
Isn't that right, Anonymous Chuckie?
"So blame the GOP all you want for trying to stop this pile of crap and keep asking what the GOP has to offer instead. I can tell you this, if the GOP had the same amount of years to develop a "plan" and came up with this failure..."
Ah, but Obamacare really was originated by Republicans. Romney implemented such a system, even.
We forget that, don't we, Anonymous Chuckie?
And for some reason the ACA is more popular among republicans than Obamacare, isn't that Right, Anonymous Chuckie?
Care to explain?
Didn't think so.
Got an alternative healthcare plan?
Didn't think so.
"Shut it down and let 'em die" and obstruct the Black guy who won the election is the plan. Nothing else.
Shame on you.
Liberals have a sane and compassionate alternative, but corporatist Republicans and Dems won't consider it.
It's called "Single Payer". Like the socialist VA. You want to gut that, sport? We'd much rather have that than Obama's GOP plan. And even that is much better than "Shut it down and let 'em die".
Shame on you.
Intellectual honesty to hold an open debate on healthcare requires an alternative.
We have one. You do not.
Shame on your dishonesty.
Dave Dubya "It's called 'Single Payer'. Like the socialist VA. You want to gut that, sport? We'd much rather have that than Obama's GOP plan. And even that is much better than 'Shut it down and let 'em die'."
The VA is well beyond Single Payer (Medicare and Medicaid are basically Single Payer). Minor (and disastrous) nibbles of privatization aside, as far as I'm aware, the VA is actual capital "S" Socialized medicine.
"Intellectual honesty to hold an open debate on healthcare requires an alternative."
No it doesn't. That is what you think and want. In order to have an open debate, you need to stop spouting talking points and show where you think current train wreck should be corrected. I reject the position you take as judge and jury on what I should or not say. How about a little "Intellectual honesty" on your part and explain the lies that were told to sell ACA in the first place before you start to demand an alternative be offered?
Why should anyone support your position that "yes the ACA is a pile dung, but we have to do something"?n Or do you think its great? If you did, tell us why you think so?
Why not do something that actually works, unlike the current plans sign up website.
How about start with lower the cost of doing business so that the economy can grow in the public sector and by doing so, grow jobs and then with tax revenues coming in and unemployment dropping, create a medical IRA? Imagine if you can, the liberal sheep being allowed to direct their own future and own care? Shocking!
Are you against this because you feel the average (47%?) American is not competent to take care of themselves and need govt or union help? Are you going to say how will the govt pay for this cut in their taxes (income) when the sheep start saving their money in non taxable health care IRAs?
Gee, where does it say the govt never has to do with less income, but the citizens for which the govt is for the people and of the people must?
And you start Dave with the realization that your 5 counter points to the 5 points of truth, are not based on reality, but on the liberal belief system that prosperity is not owned by the person who worked for it but by the govt who allowed the worker to keep the fr4uits of their labor. The belief that all money belongs first to the Govt.and they determine who and how much is a person allowed to keep.
How's this work for you Dave, Romney was not a conservative, his health care plan sucked for MASS and will only suck more as it has been enlarged under ACA. There, feel better? What kind of argument is that anyway? Because Romney did something I opposed, I must agree with a larger plan that is based on his? That's grade school play ground logic. That's supposed to shut down any further debate?
Single payer, crap, look how medical costs have gone up since the start of Medicare? Do you think it will not continue under single payer? Show me an example of where it has.
Do you believe the 20-30 million amnesty citizens should be covered by the ACA and get subsidies the day they become citizens? How is that going to be paid for?
Modusoperandi, before you start explaining all the health care programs of the USA, how about explaining anti - Muslim racism growing in Canada?
It's plain to see here why "Anonymous" wishes to remain so. The men in the white coats are looking for him...
chuckyanonymous "Single payer, crap, look how medical costs have gone up since the start of Medicare? Do you think it will not continue under single payer?"
Sure. It'll go up, but it will continue to go up slower than privatized healthcare.
Which is cheaper overall;
1. Something that starts out at $X/year and goes up at a slow rate, or
2. Something that starts out more expensive than 1 and goes up at a faster rate.
Do the math. The answer won't surprise you.
...
But this is moot. You won't get Single Payer. Apparently it's Socialism, which is bad. Unless you're retired, then it's good (or ex-military, in which case it's also good). Unless you're poor, then it's bad (but just for other poor people). Unless you're poor and retired in which case it's good and also good.
No, it doesn't make any sense to me, either.
Advocating for the present private healthcare system the US has is advocating to impoverish yourself. Your country can and should learn lessons from the experiences of other countries. Look, if you really want to stay privatized, look to Switzerland. It's all private (private insurance, private doctors, private hospitals), which is apparently good.
And there's always Singapore's model.
"Modusoperandi, before you start explaining all the health care programs of the USA..."
Take that, me being on topic!
"...how about explaining anti - Muslim racism growing in Canada?"
Think of the Quebecois as the elderly white male facing a world that has [happily] passed him by, desperately trying to hold on to privilege.
As for the rest of Canada...
WE LEARNED IT FROM YOU! (/me runs to room, slams door, collapses on bed)
Chuckyanonymos,
In order to have an open debate,...What? We must obey your orders?
stop spouting talking points I didn't post the absurd 5 talking points. Or are you dictating that only YOU get to spout talking points? I see.
I reject the position you take as judge and jury on what I should or not say
Of course, yet only YOU are allowed to be the judge and and jury. We get it. More double standards and authoritarian demands.
show where you think current train wreck should be corrected
This unilateral demand has been met, but NOT by you. We want to replace it with socialized healthcare for all, not just veterans. We've been waiting for your "corrections" to healthcare.
not based on reality, but on the liberal belief system that prosperity is not owned by the person who worked for it but by the govt who allowed the worker to keep the fruits of their labor. The belief that all money belongs first to the Govt.and they determine who and how much is a person allowed to keep.
Not one liberal believes what you think they believe. You utterly fail to comprehend "the liberal belief system".
But you believe liberals are destroying America. You're one to spout about false beliefs, sport.
You remind me of a Moonie lecturing a theology professor, or rabbi, of priest on religion.
You don't even know that you are trapped in cult beliefs, way outside the rational world.
So, in the spirit of open debate, what healthcare "corrections" are you offering, other than "Shut it down and let 'em die"?
Romney was not a conservative
Yeah, right, and neither was Bush. LOL!
Gotta love that extremism. Your fanatic ideological purity standards make a mighty small minority...who still wants, and demands, to dictate for the rest of us.
This is why most Americans say "No thanks" to the Tea Cult. You either have not accepted that fact, or you don't care.
Is that your idea of how a democratic republic operates? Dictatorship by a minority is un-American where I come from.
The U.S. debt, which has jumped 55 percent under President Obama, is now so high that if working Americans had to pay their full share, the bill would be over $123,000, according to a new Harvard University Institute of Politics study of the nation’s empty bank accounts.
The school's fiscal 2012 Annual Report of the USA, which examines the federal budget, put the total debt at $16.7 trillion. But that's such a big number that the student authors tried to put it in perspective.
MozART
Maybe you can handle this one?
Do you believe the 20-30 million amnesty citizens should be covered by the ACA and get subsidies the day they become citizens? How is that going to be paid for?
"It'll go up, but it will continue to go up slower than privatized healthcare."
You miss the point Moe, before Medicare, was the cost of healthcare going up as fast as it has since the implementation of Medicare?
Wasn't the reason for Medicare to begin with was to provide for retired seniors a low cost government subsidized health insurance to go along with their S.S government subsidized retirement? Not to stem the rising cost of health care.
The argument has been made that the extra cost to the medical professional to manage the billing and paper work required by Medicare has increased the cost of health care? Do you agree?
Moe,
I will not answer DD again, as he is still claiming I haven't answered him, when in fact I did offer an alternative to the train wreck called Obama Care.
He is, I've been told a perfect rectum whose favorite part of his job is doing cavity searches using his tongue on his inmates. What ever turns you on DD!
Moe,
I will not answer DD again, as he is still claiming I haven't answered him, when in fact I did offer an alternative to the train wreck called Obama Care. I'm sure you could care less that I do that. But at least you acknowledged the racism in Canada instead of launching into the typical DD attack and deflection.
I have watched his treatment of anyone who disagrees with what Tom posts. You may have noticed that fewer people are posting here. That is because of DD making fun of posters faith as he did with Chuck Morre, conservatives as he calls them Nazis or fascist.
He is, I've been told, a perfect rectum whose favorite part of his job is doing cavity searches with his tongue on his inmates. What ever turns you on DD!
I will not answer DD again
Again? Right. We must have missed your alternative healthcare plan. Or was is "shut it down and let 'em die"?
Or is this your "alternative healthcare plan"? How about start with lower the cost of doing business so that the economy can grow
Yes, of course, the same magical Right Wing answer for everything. Cut taxes and de-regulate. Yeah that fixed things nicely for the Bush Crash of '08.
Good "plan".
He is, I've been told a perfect rectum whose favorite part of his job is doing cavity searches using his tongue on his inmates. What ever turns you on DD!
And how about that quality Right Wing thinking? Do you suppose this is why "that fewer people are posting here"? Nahhh!
Thanks for that "intellectual honesty" and "good faith" debate. LOL!
If you don't like being compared to fascists then stop acting like them.
Anonymous
You are bringing up a hypothetical with no basis in reality. An age old conservative ploy, but hardly worth commenting on.
For one thing, there will not be 30 million INSTANT "amnesty" recipients, and for another, under the ACA they would have to pay for their own insurance. That's the entire point. As it is NOW anyone who wanders into an emergance room MUST be treated and if they can't pay, it comes out of our taxes or from higher costs to those of us who can pay.
You are arguing against yourself because Fox news has convinced you to.
And if they can't pay for their insurance, what happens then? Of course the hospitals will not turn them away which means what? We still pay the bill for them.
And if they can't pay for their insurance and are given subsidies, who pays for the subsidies?
You are arguing against yourself with your claim that the entire idea behind ACA is to mandate everyone to have health insurance and therefore the cost of health care will drop, along with taxes. If that was reality, then why are there subsidies, why are Unions and company's being allowed out of the plan?
Why does the ACA tax a person if they have a health care plan that is considered to be Cadillac? If the reason for the ACA is to force everyone to have insurance, why penalize someone for having the best insurance?
As for "hypothetical with no basis in reality" statement, could not the same be said for the number of Americans that are claimed to not have health care insurance, it's just hypothetical?
Do you really believe with the 2014 elections a little over a year away that to become a voting citizen, amnesty is going to be a long draw out process?
How do you know so much about what is said and not said on Fox News? How many hours do you spend in a week watching it to know so much about it? It would seem, quite many to have become such an expert on Fox News. Unless of course, you are simply parroting what you have read and heard about Fox News for other sources? You wouldn't be doing that would you?
Now you can ignore these issues and counter with the standard liberal lines of those who oppose the ACA hating America(ians), being racists, hating the plan because Obama is half white, are terrorists as bad as Al Qaede etc. However, doing that will NOT strengthen the reasons or support for the ACA. Doing so only reduces the honest debate on the issue and turns it into a personal attack by you on those who disagree with you.
As has been stated before, to not answer the points brought up by those who disagree with your position only supports the statement that liberalism can not succeed in the FREE market place of ideas.
Doing so only reduces the honest debate on the issue and turns it into a personal attack by you on those who disagree with you.
Yes, do as Anonymous Chuckie says, not as he does. Obey his authority.
You see it's ok for Chuckie to say this:
"perfect rectum whose favorite part of his job is doing cavity searches using his tongue"
"Honest debate" is required from only liberals. Personal attacks are only allowed for hateful Right Wingers.
Personally, I've seen enough of Chuckie's sick personal fantasies. His remark says far more about him than anyone else.
As has been stated before, to not answer the points brought up by those who disagree with your position only supports the statement that liberalism can not succeed in the FREE market place of ideas.
Again, do as he says. HE is not required to answer questions.
Perhaps the reason Chuckie doesn't answer points brought up by those who disagree with HIS position, only supports the statement that Tea Cult brainwashing can not succeed in the FREE market place of ideas.
Will Chuckie ever tell us his alternative healthcare plan?
Nope, all we got is “Let the rich have tax cuts and let corporations write their own “regulations”. That worked wonders. Our economy and people still suffer from that proven debacle.
So it’s back to “Shut it down and let ‘em die” as their answer to healthcare.
Time for Chuckie to play the commie card...or is he more enamored of his “rectum card” now?
THAT argument should win the masses over to the Tea Cult. LOL!
Keep it classy sport.
From Ross Douthat, the Republican opinion writer at the New York Times:
“But with tonight’s vote done and the government open once again, I want to return to the theme of my Sunday column, and stress once more the essential absurdity of the specific populist gambit we’ve just witnessed unfold, drag on, and now finally collapse. However you slice and dice the history, the strategery, and the underlying issues, the decision to live with a government shutdown for an extended period of time — inflicting modest-but-real harm on the economy, needlessly disrupting the lives and paychecks of many thousands of hardworking people, and further tarnishing the Republican Party’s already not-exactly-shiny image — in pursuit of obviously, obviously unattainable goals was not a normal political blunder by a normally-functioning political party. It was an irresponsible, dysfunctional and deeply pointless act, carried out by a party that on the evidence of the last few weeks shouldn’t be trusted with the management of a banana stand, let alone the House of Representatives.”
Whaoa! Good one, Dave!
Thank you so much for posting it. I missed that one!
All the best,
Tom Degan
Anaonymous, unlike you I watch ALL the news outlets, in addition to reading three newspapers and scanning the web. Yes, I like to keep informed from ALL sides. CLearly you have no knowledge of what the ACA is about beyond what Fox news tells you. if you have a "caddillac" plan oyu do not have to deal with the ACA. YOU CAN KEEP THE INSURANCE YOU ALREADY HAVE IF YOU WANT TO.
Why was this SAME PLAN OK for Romney in Massechusetts but suddenly a bad thing for the country? No one has ever explained that? And why is the party of "personal responsibility" suddenly against it?
Clearly Mozart you didn't read what I wrote about the Cadillac plans. What I said was why do you have to pay a tax if you have a great Cadillac plan, not you cant have one. Based on your response's total lack of relativity to the issues poised in my post, I 100% believe that you dont know what or how to respond.
OR!
Must be spending too much time reading all those newspapers and watching all those different news programs on T.V, right?
Where have I said the Mass insurance plan is a good plan? Aren't you just assuming that because believe the ACA is a "train wreck"? If Mass, or for that matter any State wants to have a Romney type of health care plan, while I would not live in that State, the State has that right to put such a plan into effect. One of the most offensive parts of any Federal plan like this is there is no where to move to get away from it.
Again with the assumptions that you know everything about those who disagree with you and knowing that, you attempt to belittle them by being critical of their sources of information. Claiming I "have no knowledge" of the ACA other than what I learn from who you assume I am getting my information from. Do you realize how full of your self that makes you appear?
Try dealing with what was posted instead of the demeaning strategy used so often by liberals. Try to offer your views in the FREE market place of ideas about the ideas I have posted. So far you have not.
www.politico.com/
A finding in a study on the relationship between science literacy and political ideology surprised the Yale professor behind it: Tea party members know more science than non-tea partiers.
Yale law professor Dan Kahan posted on his blog this week that he analyzed the responses of a set of more than 2,000 American adults recruited for another study and found that, on average, people who leaned liberal were more science literate than those who leaned conservative.
However, those who identified as part of the tea party movement were actually better versed in science than those who didn’t, Kahan found. The findings met the conventional threshold of statistical significance, the professor said.
Kahan wrote that not only did the findings surprise him, they embarrassed him.
“I’ve got to confess, though, I found this result surprising. As I pushed the button to run the analysis on my computer, I fully expected I’d be shown a modest negative correlation between identifying with the Tea Party and science comprehension,” Kahan wrote.
“But then again, I don’t know a single person who identifies with the Tea Party,” he continued. “All my impressions come from watching cable tv — & I don’t watch Fox News very often — and reading the ‘paper’ (New York Times daily, plus a variety of politics-focused internet sites like Huffington Post & Politico). I’m a little embarrassed, but mainly I’m just glad that I no longer hold this particular mistaken view.”
Some of you who post here might be s bit embarrassed along with the Professor.
As of the time of this report, MoveOn.org has gathered 23,555 signatures in favor of literally arresting Conservative Tea Party-backed Congressional leaders for opposing Obamacare!
The Liberal signatories to this outrageous petition believe Conservatives should be criminally tried on “sedition” charges for their commitment to the rule of law and adherence to the American Constitution.
Here’s how Webster’s Dictionary defines sedition:
“Creating a revolt, disturbance, or violence against lawful civil authority with the intent to cause its overthrow or destruction…Sedition is regarded as falling one step short of the more serious crime of treason.”
In short, these Liberals see Obama’s desires to be the true expression of the American government.
They think resisting Obama is tantamount to engaging in conspiracy to overthrow the United States government because the Constitution’s commands matter less to them than Obama’s Socialist demands!
Check out some of the comments left by signers as reported by The Blaze:
Neal Shultz said:
“Hang ‘em High…charge them with sedition and put them in the town square in the rack and supply everyone with bushels of rotten fruits and vegetables…There isn’t anything bad enough for these anti-American anarchist lunatics.”
Brenda Barton said:
[sic] “It’s a shame how grown white men act get over it already Obama is in and u can’t change History.”
So, to recap, these people actually believe Conservative Republicans, some of them military veterans, are “un-American” because they oppose funding a broken, unsustainable system that is already forcing people out of their jobs?
Conservatives are un-American for refusing to support the notion that it’s OK to make people buy a product they can’t afford, then tax them for not being able to afford it?
Anonymous, if you already have insurance of ANY KIND, you are not required to participate in the ACA exchanges at all, nor will you be charged. Jeez, where do you get your info? Oh yeah, Fox news and Limbaugh.
I love Republicans, they just got their asses handed to them by the President and now it's a scramble to find excuses and place blame everywhere but upon themselves.
HILARIOUS.
Say it aint so, Joe.
Joe forgets that liberals and others who challenged the lies about Iraq were called traitors by the "Freedom Fries" gang.
So we learned, "on average, people who leaned liberal were more science literate than those who leaned conservative". No surprise.
And for some reason Tea Party folks not only vote against science, or rather for the party and its ideologues that suppress science that doesn't conform to their ideology, they also vote against the interests of most Americans.
They vote exactly like their fellows who like the ACA but hate Obamacare.
How smart is that?
Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006 speech:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
What I just don't get is that what Obama said March 2006 is fiscal responsibility which is the main issue of the Tea Party.
Now President Obama calls people who believe in fiscal responsibility the ones who were holding the country hostage?
I regret voting for Obama and am waiting for him to be a leader and stop campaigning, vacationing, and playing basketball behind the White House. Lets face the facts, he sure knows how to blow smoke up people's asses!
And also would Nancy Pelosi sign a contract to buy a house without reading it?
Wonder why "Confused Progressive" sounds just like confused Chuckie...
You freaking ignored my statement again.
Are you taxed for having a Cadillac health insurance plan?
Why dont you hand me my hat by talking about the issues and questions I brought up in my post which started with this concern:
"And if they can't pay for their insurance, what happens then? Of course the hospitals will not turn them away which means what? We still pay the bill for them.
And if they can't pay for their insurance and are given subsidies, who pays for the subsidies?"
Trying to have a honest exchange of ideas with liberals are like what happened on the Ed Schultz radio show today.
"On his syndicated radio show Thursday afternoon, MSNBC host Ed Schultz shouted down and eventually hung up on a man who called in to dispute the host’s claims that the Republican Party is the enemy of veterans.
“I just called to disagree with you about Democrats caring about veterans,” the called named “Russell” said. “I’m a retired veteran with 23 years of service and I don’t know if you know it, but 1 October, 171,000 of us were kicked off our health care. And those ‘evil Republicans,’ as you like to call them, passed a bill in June and it’s been sitting in the Senate and Reid won’t bring it up.”
“First of all, you have, uh, your facts wrong,” Schultz replied. When Russell tried to get another word in, Schultz immediately began shouting: “I’m not going to freaking argue with you, Russell. You’re full of crap, okay? You’re full of it. The government shutdown hurt the veterans. Is that wrong or right?”
“It hasn’t hurt us yet,” Russell shot back.
“I am going to break your idiot argument down piece by piece,” Schultz said.
When Russell noted that he is one of the veterans who recently lost their benefits, suggesting the Democrats have worsened the situation by not taking up the GOP proposal, Schultz told the man “You have your facts wrong.” The radio host expressed frustration at the conversation, dismissing his caller as being in need of a “right-wing talker” so that he can “go drink some Kool-Aid.”
He then tore into the caller once more:
"You can pin blame on whatever bill you want to pin blame on. The devil is in the details. The buck stops with the dollar. Who shut the government down? The Republicans. The Republicans. Who’s hanging in the balance right now? That Vietnam veteran with his legs lost, in a wheelchair, his only hope is to get a VA check. Who cut that off? And you’re telling me that you’re worried about health care when you’ve got a situation like that? And there’s 170,000 that were thrown off? Let me tell you how many hundreds of thousands have been thrown off from care because the Republicans have cut the funding to the VA. You gotta get your freaking facts straight, dude."
At another point, Schultz yelled at the caller for calling him “sir,” telling him “I’m not a ‘sir’ to you, the way you talk to me.”
Eventually, after several minutes of arguing, the host finally ended the call by hanging up on Russell. “I don’t want to deal with you. I just don’t,” he said. “Veterans, I don’t know who got in between their ears to make them think that the Republicans are their best friend. It drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. I admit it.”
Liberalism can not compete in the free market lace of ideas. Mozart, you and Schultz have proved the truth of that fact again.
Mozart since you get your information from all sides of the subject, why not add this site to your list?
http://grassrootjournal.com/
Anaonymous, you parrot Fox news like a paid employee. You have all the slogans down pat. plus, you have the taqctic down that when you are beaten in an argument, declare victory anyway. Good Dittohead, here's an Oxycontin.
Anonymous "You miss the point Moe, before Medicare, was the cost of healthcare going up as fast as it has since the implementation of Medicare?"
Pretty much, yes. Note that medical care in 1960 and medical care in 2013 are two radically different things.
Note, too, that the Ryan plan for it was more expensive than Medicare, not less. 40% more.
"Wasn't the reason for Medicare to begin with was to provide for retired seniors a low cost government subsidized health insurance to go along with their S.S government subsidized retirement? Not to stem the rising cost of health care."
Even while dealing with the sickest portion of the population, it does stem the rising cost (again, particularly versus private insurance). Medicare has economy of scale when negotiating prices, and its Medicare Cost Report gathers information from all hospitals under it; information that can help increase efficiency and that's available (redacted for privacy) to the public. Plus, now, it's got the IPAB for cost control and best practices, which the Republicans are against. Because they're Death Panels, or something.
"The argument has been made that the extra cost to the medical professional to manage the billing and paper work required by Medicare has increased the cost of health care? Do you agree?"
You do know that they already deal with billing and paperwork for every insurance company their customers are under, right? Of those, Medicare is the largest and most standardized (and, yes, it could probably be simplified, although at least part of that load is because the Medicare administration gathers lots of data. See previous section).
Joe Calandra Jr. "As of the time of this report, MoveOn.org has gathered 23,555 signatures in favor of literally arresting Conservative Tea Party-backed Congressional leaders for opposing Obamacare!"
That's it? The petition to get Obama to build the Death Star got 34,000.
Confused Progressive "Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006 speech:…"
Sure. The economy in 2006 (while riding a bubble) wasn't bad. The economy after the crash a year and a half later we're still recovering from.
I don't know why Keynesian economics is supposed to be controversial ("tax more in booms to spend more in busts").
"What I just don't get is that what Obama said March 2006 is fiscal responsibility which is the main issue of the Tea Party."
No it isn't. If it was, they would've appeared in force long before Obama's Feb 2009 Stimulus package. Two unfunded wars? Shrug. Unfunded Medicare D? Shrug. Unfunded NCLB? Shrug. Bank baillout? Shrug. HAMP? Shrug. Some obscure pundit on a channel nobody watches says Obama's going to be "subsidizing losers' mortgages" (via HASP, which is what HAMP was, but in 2009 instead of 2008)? Bam. Tea Party.
"Now President Obama calls people who believe in fiscal responsibility the ones who were holding the country hostage?"
The guy from the party that brought back PAYGO (up until the House got rid of it, replacing it with CUTGO*), who formed the Simpson-Bowles commission while still in the midst of the Recession, whose preferred budgets are wildly skewed to government cuts over tax raises, helped with the Budget Control Act (with automatic, idiotic, Sequestraton) calls people who manage to both say they believe in fiscal responsibility and have a bunch of members in Congress advocating defaulting hostages?
* Fun comparison: PAYGO vs CUTGO. Now tell me who's fiscal resposibility.
So, in conclusion, Obama (and the Dems) are for paying for things, for cutting healthcare costs (without compromising care, via things like Medicare's scale and the IPAB), for preventing the Free Rider problem with the uninsured (with the Individual Mandate) and for tackling the long-term deficit (Obama created Simpson-Bowles, loading it down with deficit hawks), while the GOP are for getting things without paying for them (dropping PAYGO), for cutting taxes without paying for them (bringing in CUTGO), for the Free Rider problem, and for holding the full faith and credit of the United States hostage to gut a funded program they don't like while their Base demands that the Dems do nothing to the big program they do like (Medicare) while their own party both keeps the "cuts" in that program Obama brought in and pushes to make it 40% more expensive.
Who really believes in fiscal responsibility?
I daresay there hasn't been a president yet in the past 40 years who hasn't supported some measure that has been a brick in the wall of our crippling debt burden.
Anyone remember Bush and the enormous expansion of Medicare prescription drug benefits? That makes ObamaCare pale in comparison to be honest.
I'm no supporter of ACA but folks have to be honest here - Republicans and Democrats both have destroyed our country. There is a day not far in the future when the Treasury will open the auction window and no one will show up.
Hear that? No more clinking sound. No more can being kicked down the road. The road has run out and they're not sure what to do. They have no options. They aren't ideologically deadlocked. They are scared to death - they are out of options. They are trying to figure out how to allow the crash to occur and what to do in the aftermath. Their bosses (banking interests) are working to insure they can cover losses by confiscating assets. Avoidance is no longer on the table. Cruel and unfortunate fact. So, forgive me if "Obamacare" seems somewhat irrelevant. Folks need to quit arguing about how to divide the pie. The pie is an illusion.
I know, I sound crazy. We'll see. I hope I am, but from where I sit math and history usually don't lie.
Christopher Weaver and Louise Radnofsky
Insurers say the federal health-care marketplace is generating flawed data that is straining their ability to handle even the trickle of enrollees who have gotten through so far, in a sign that technological problems extend further than the website traffic and software issues already identified.
Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans. Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Nebraska said it had to hire temporary workers to contact new customers directly to resolve inaccuracies in submissions. Medical Mutual of Ohio said one customer had successfully signed up for three of its plans.
The flaws could do lasting damage to the law if customers are deterred from signing up or mistakenly believe they have obtained coverage.
“The longer this takes to resolve . . . the harder it will be to get people to [come back and] sign up,” said Aetna Inc. AET -0.30% Chief Executive Mark Bertolini. “It’s not off to a great start,” he said, though he believes the marketplaces are “here to stay.”
Mrs. Mozart1220
How many hours a week do you watch Fox News to know anyone is a "parrot" for them?
How come a person with a Cadillac health insurance has to pay a penalty fine in taxes for having that policy?
Where does the govt get it's authority to determine what is and isn't a Cadillac policy?
Why are Unions getting a wavier from the Cadillac policy tax?
Who will pay the penalty for those not able to pay for a health care plan, if they can not afford the insurance in the first place, much less the fine?
Anonymous
Non one with their own insurance has to pay anything extra under the ACA. I watch ALL News programs and one doesn't have to watch Fox long to hear the same rhetoric repeated over and over. The exchanges are based on INCOME level and some people will get their plan at NO COST, so there is no reason NOT to participate. maybe you should actually research insted of letting Rush Limbaugh tell you what to think. You are so far off the mark it's hilarious. Oh, and keep up the insults, it probes you know you have no valid argument.
I have also proven I should not try to type before my first cup of coffee...jeez...
Harley,
You make some good points. But as the bean counters quibble over ending social programs, they've doled out corporate welfare, opened our government to cash bribery, built a warrantless surveillance state, geared for permanent war, worked to suppress voter registration and poll access, and continue to pass the Patriot Act and secret FISA travesty.
In other words, even with the holy grail of a balanced budget, they are dismantling our once free democratic republic.
Whenever I ask a Tea Party person why they obsess over a damn healthcare law, and ignore the really serious issues, I get no answer. Seems the Tea Party is only bean counters, tilting at fiscal windmills, utterly oblivious of the real, and far more immediate, dangers to our freedom, democracy and prosperity.
Dave -
All I'm saying is the shills in DC are puppets. The real "masters of the universe" are the world bankers. Have been ever since Jekyll Island... Though the $USD fiat wealth machine is about to go kaput and it will be fascinating to see how the transfer of power occurs. God help us.
Non one with their own insurance has to pay anything extra under the ACA.
Really?
Then why call an insurance plan a Cadillac plan?
At "NO COST"?
Really? Then who does pay for their insurance?
What insults?
BTW, since you listen to all kinds of view points, what's going on today on Limbaugh's program and what do you disagree with that is being said?
Here's a chance for DD to put his mouth were he wants all of us to put our money.
As bankruptcy hearings continue in Detroit to determine the legality of the city's historic Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing in July, state workers are hoping to get some clarity on the future of their pension benefits.
While bankruptcy and union lawyers continue to battle it out, the city has already announced significant changes to its retiree health benefits program. Effective Jan.1, retired city workers under age 65 will no longer receive full coverage from the state and will instead receive a $125 stipend to shop in Michigan's health-care exchange under the newly-rolled out Affordable Care Act.
Steve Kreisberg, AFSCME director of Collective Bargaining, says the drop to a $125 monthly stipend to cover health costs isn't enough for retirees younger than 65, especially since spousal and child coverage is being eliminated.
"This will have a major impact, especially if they insured their spouses and children, there is no longer room for that," Kreisberg says. "They are also replacing coverage that cost between $500 and $600 a month with $125 a month."
He says the changes have left former city workers confused, angry and concerned.
Guess they read it and now know what's in it.
I don't have to listne to Limbaugh today, I'm not riding with that particular idiot who insist on forcing everyone else to hear it.
And where are you getting your "cadillac plan" info from? If you already have insurance and you like it you are free to keep it. You are paying for it through an employer or on your own.How many toimes do I have to explain that? Your question makes no sense whatsoever, but then, thats typical of a conservative.
Here's a chance for DD to put his mouth were he wants all of us to put our money.
No, it isn't Chuckie. Really. That is nonsense.
Mozart,
Do you know what is different about Limbaugh show on Fridays, since you check out different view points including Limbaugh?
Are you saying that only idiots force other to believe as they do?
Cadillac health care insurance and how the ACA impacts them.
huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/08/obamacare-tax-cadillac-plans_n_3239488.html
uhc.com/united_for_reform_resource_center/health_reform_provisions/excise_tax_on_high_cost_coverage.htm
obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-taxes.php
cnbc.com/id/101065523
To summarize Jan. 1, 2018—The so-called Cadillac tax on health plans kicks in. Insurers or self-funded plans must pay a 40 percent excise tax on plans that cost more than $10,200 annually for individuals and $27,500 for families.
The ACA takes Medical devises that save lives, and makes the devices more expensive.
nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/cadillac-tax-health-insurance.html
If I cant afford to buy an insurance policy, I'm going to have to pay a penalty to the IRS. Am I correct so far? If I can not afford the insurance policy, how can I afford to pay the penalty?
Anonymous, if you can't afford to sign up for FREE insurance, then there is no help for you.
AS for the Tax on "Cadillac plans" it's because the tax is focused on high premiums, not high levels of coverage. It's to get the insurance companies to stop charging so much for crap coverage. It's not a tax on the recipient. Employers do not HAVE to scale back anything, but if they do, it will be out of sheer vindictiveness. That is NOT the fault of Obama or the ACA.
You might try actually reading youre own links, instead of letting Limbaugh and Fox news tell you what they said.
Oh, so it's the fault of the insurance company's.
Bit wait minute, when i sign up for medicare, cant i select different coverage and pay accordingly? Is that the insurance company again or Medicare.
"it will be out of sheer vindictiveness." How do you figure that? Since the coverage with ACA is so great why shouldn't a company want all their employees to have enroll in it? Be a lot cheaper for the company to pay the fine for not have insurance for their employes than to continue to pay for that Cadillac insurance and then have to pay a fine to the IRS for having done so.
Right, I mean isn't that what the ACA expects to happen, company's will not be able to afford the Cadillac plans because they ave become too expensive due to the ACA having a fine for them offering that level of plan.
How does that make sense to you? The idea behind ACA was for everybody to have healthcare insurance, yet if your health insurance is too good, the ACA fines you.
Does that make sense to you?
Dave Dubya is a schvartze
"You might try actually reading youre own links, instead of letting Limbaugh and Fox news tell you what they said."
What makes you think I dont read the new sources I linked you to? After all, I did link you to them?
Now are you going to retract your insults about me being so far off the mark? I said there were extra taxes on Cadillac plans, you said I didn't know what I was talking about. I provided you sources supporting my statement.
"Your question makes no sense whatsoever, but then, thats typical of a conservative." "CLearly you have no knowledge of what the ACA is about beyond what Fox news tells you." Care to make a retraction? Don't worry, I wont hold my breath.
"The exchanges are based on INCOME level and some people will get their plan at NO COST"
Ok, then whose cost will it be? Sounds a lot like your argument about the non insured costing us so much now because they will not be turned away at the hospital. Under the ACA, these people will not have to pay for their insurance nor will they have to pay for their care, right?
Then who will pay for it?
These are your claims in support of the ACA, I just need clarification but the sources I provided links for haven't dealt with these concerns. Imagine that.
Chuckie says, “Dave Dubya is a schvartze”... Amusing, perhaps, but derogatory nonetheless.
And three minutes later:
“Now are you going to retract your insults about me...”
LOL!!
Gotto love the thin-skinned, dish-it-out-but-can't-take-it hypocrisy.
There are no taxes on the recipients, only on the insurance companies that overcharge for crap policies. Had you read (and understood) your own sources you'd have gotten that. And why would a conservative owned company want the ACA to succeed? Why else oppose it?
You are arguing against your own best interest. First you say it's expensive, then you complain when it isn't. Make up your mind. You are arguing just for the sake of it and as usual you look like an idiot.
If you want actual answers to your questions stop letting Fox news and Limbaugh provide your information.
Mozart1220 "The exchanges are based on INCOME level and some people will get their plan at NO COST, so there is no reason NOT to participate."
No. As far as I can gather, the subsidy only kicks in if available insurance on the exchange exceeds a certain percentage of your income (for example, if you're at 400% of the poverty line and coverage exceeds 9.5% of your income, then the tax credit kicks in).
Income Max% Max premium per month before subsidy kicks in for single person (roughly double max premium for family of four)
133% 2% $24
150% 4% $54
200% 6.3% $114
300% 9.5% $258
350% 9.5% $300
400% 9.5% $343
With an average monthly premium of $328 (note: varies with both level of coverage chosen between states) this means that most of the 12% or so of the population that can be on it (no Medicare/Tricare/Medicaid/employer-based insurance) will get some level of subsidy, with a big, big hole for those between 100-133% of the poverty line in states that refused the Medicaid expansion who neither get Medicaid nor the tax credit.
Anonymous "Oh, so it's the fault of the insurance company's."
Actually, if memory serves, it's mostly the fault of wartime wage controls leading to employer-based heathcare coverage and from that Cadillac plans to entice and keep relatively high-level employees (it looks mostly like paying more each month to minimized or avoid co-pays and deductibles).
After the war the wage controls went away but the rest stayed.
"Then who will pay for it?"
See first link.
Thanks Moe, here is the list you provided showing who pays for those who cant or I guess, dont have to due to getting a waiver for some crazy reason.
BTW you are absolute correct, employer provided health insurance came about due to govt enforced wage freezes during WWII.
Here's the list of how the money is going to be raised to pay for the ACA.
+.9% Increase in Medicare Tax Rate (plus next item…)
3.8% New Tax on unearned income for high-income taxpayers= $210.2 billion ($200,000 for individual and $250,000 for joint filers)
New Annual Fee on health insurance providers = $60 billion (For calculation - Sec 9010 (b) of the PPACA.)[1]
40% New Tax on health insurance policies which cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family, per year = $32 billion (inland tax as opposed to an importation tax)
New Annual Fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs = $27 billion (For calculation - Sec 9008 (b) of the PPACA)[2]
2.3% New Tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices = $20 billion
+2.5% Increase (7.5% to 10%) in the Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction = $15.2 billion
Limit annual contributions to $2,500 on flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans (plans that allow employees to choose between different types of benefits) = $13 billion
All other revenue sources = $14.9 billion
10% New Tax imposed on each individual for whom “indoor tanning services” are performed.
3.8% New Tax on investment income. Includes: gross income from interest, dividends, royalties, rents, and net capital gains. Investment income does not include interest on tax-exempt bonds, veterans’ benefits, excluded gain from the sale of a principle residence, distributions from retirement plans, or amounts subject to self-employment taxes. (The lesser of net investment income or the excess of modified Adjusted Gross Income over a the dollar amount at which the highest income tax bracket, typically $250,000 for married filing jointly and $200,000 filing as an individual).
It looks like this list supports the statement that Obama-Care is a tax.
This information also gives creditability to this.
The government cannot give to anyone anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Ok Mozart, now what have you got to say? That I got my information from Limbaugh and Fox News? Hardly.
Is this still in my best interest
Still want to ridicule conservatives for having the gall to question Obama's plan? And get the truth about ACA? No where did I say that people shouldn't have health care.
I totally disagree with your claim that under the ACA the cost of medical care will go down. It will not go down. For those above the poverty level the cost will go up. It has to in order to pay for those below the poverty level. Knowing human nature, how long will it be before more than 47% of us decide to work and make less money?
Enjoy your future under Obama Care, you have worked hard for it.
Anonymous, you decided before you knew anything about the ACA that you hated it, BECAUSE you were told to by your Teabag masters. You refuse to even accept that it could be a good thing and you run to anyone who even comes close to backing up ytour ridiculous claims. I'm through trying to explain things to you. If you don't like the ACA , don't participate. If you already have insurance you won't even notice it going on. As a conservative, you just don't like poor people getting things YOU don't think they should have, and you refuse to acknowledge that YOU pay for their healthcare one way or the other, and this way will be better for YOU.
Have a nice life in your ignorance, and tell your Daddy Ted Cruz we said Hi.
Mozart,
OK.
Moe,
Do you believe the ACA Tax will create new private sector jobs?
Mozart,
Aren't you putting words in my mouth?
"As a conservative, you just don't like poor people getting things YOU don't think they should have, and you refuse to acknowledge that YOU pay for their healthcare one way or the other, and this way will be better for YOU."
1. Never said I didn't want poor people to get things.
2. Never refused to acknowledge that I pay for the health care of the poor now.
What I did was asked how the ACA Tax was going to be paid for and who would pay for it.
I'm all for poor people getting things. I hope that they all become millionaires. It's my conservative dream, that there are no poor in America. My concerns are that:
A. Govt programs will not and have not made the poor into millionaires.
B. Govt programs may take away the incentive of the poor to work to become millionaires.
C. None of the Govt programs to date have eliminated poverty from America.
D. What evidence is there that the ACA Tax will eliminate poverty in America?
E. It is claimed that the ACA TAX would cover the 35–40 million currently uninsured – Yes! However, it’s estimated that an additional 30 million who currently have healthcare would now be without it specifically because of ACA Tax. So no gain, just a switch in population.
F. If, as some believe, it is govt spending which drives the economy to prosperity, how come that prosperity has not occurred?
Be sure to share with us, any shortcuts you find when you sign up for the ACA Tax on it's Government approved and paid for website.
"It's plain to see here why "Anonymous" wishes to remain so. The men in the white coats are looking for him..." Mozart, still keeping it classy.
Modusoperandi, got some questions for you regarding Canada's single payer health care system. First, am I correct in saying your program is "single payer"? If I moved to Canada to work and live but was not a citizen, would I be covered by your system? Would I have to become a citizen before I was covered? Would I be treated if I went to an ER with no money and not a citizen?
Thanks!
Anonymous, I could never put words in your mouth. There is no room with Rush Limbaugh's ample butt cheeks in the way.
Governemtn was never meant to make poor people into millionares, but it IS trying to help poor people fight against millionares who can never get enough for themselves.
The ACA has NEVER made the claim that it will "eliminate poverty". Where you got that we will never know (here's betting Rush said it)
Why do conservatives ALWAYS have to take things to ridiculous extremes?
As to your CLAIM that "not a single Republican amendment was permitted in the ACA" IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY REPUBLICANS!!! Almost the entire thing is a "republican amendment"
Where you got the rest of your claims is anyones guess (not really, we all know who writes your material)
Anonymous "Modusoperandi, got some questions for you regarding Canada's single payer health care system..."
Health Insurance - Are YOU Covered in Canada?
Mozart:
"As to your CLAIM that "not a single Republican amendment was permitted in the ACA" IT WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY REPUBLICANS!!! Almost the entire thing is a "republican amendment""
Auuh, can you tell me where I have ever said the above? Cause if you can't then, then you are again putting words into my mouth.
Can you explain to me where the fight between the rich and poor is taking place? Will this fight be on pay for view? Is Don King the promoter? Would you please give sources supporting there is a fight? Maybe you could explain how the rich hurt the poor? Seems to me since the rich pay 85% of federal income taxes collected and that is used to fund programs that benefit the poor, that the rich are doing a lot for the poor already.
I dont know how it has been for you, but all the jobs I have ever had were because of a rich person starting a business and hiring me to work for them. Have you ever gotten work from a poor person? 47% of Americans do not owe federal income taxes, can I assume then, that they are the poor who need help from the govt in fighting the rich who, "can never get enough for themselves"?
Thanks for the link Modusoperandi I appreciate it.
Oh, the "bubble" is strong with this one...
Anonymous, you are trully a peice of work. You say all these things and then claim you didn't. You ask questions that have no basis in reality and whine when they are not answered, even when they are.
Go back and read. Unless there are mnore than one under your name, you will find all the words I "put in your mouth". Except for the crap you made up of course.
Mozart, put up or shut up!
Where did I say "not a single Republican amendment was permitted in the ACA" as you claim?
Look, I'm not going to get into a spitting match with you reverting to name calling and assumptions about what I am or mean, like dave d.does.
I asked some important questions about the ACA Tax, I did not say I was opposed to it or that I was against the poor. I shared my concerns about it's funding and how it will perform when and if we make citizens of the 30 million illegals. Along the line I threw in some of my conservative beliefs about role of wealth and govt.
Would I be out of line if I said you dont like the answers I found? Starting with the tax penalty on "Cadillac" insurance plans, which for the life of me if the goal of the ACA Tax is to force all of us to have health insurance, why penalizing someone for having a better insurance policy than someone else does makes no sense at all. Insurance envy?
I'd still like to have explained to me why if the ACA Tax is about making health care more affordable, why their is a tax on some medical devices, you know the kind that provide better health? Taxes raise the price on products and services, so how is that tax going to lower the cost of health care?
My advise to you is the same you gave yourself, dont do anything until you have had your coffee.
BTW, the link Modusoperandi provided (Health Insurance - Are YOU Covered in Canada?) answered all the questions I had about their method of providing health care and how the deal with non citizens who need medical service. I hope if we are going to have the ACA Tax, we modify it to follow the Canadian plan when it comes to no citizens.
Anonymous is on the ropes! DOWN GOES ANONYMOUS! DOWN GOES ANONYMOUS.
You know what was said.
I Love sore loser conservatives. The ACA is LAW. It as passed by both houses of congress, it was backed up by a very conservative Supreme court. Stop your whining like a little girl. Like the PRESIDENT said, if you don't like it, win an election.
A. Govt programs will not and have not made the poor into millionaires.
WHO EVER SAID THAT IT WOULD?
B. Govt programs may take away the incentive of the poor to work to become millionaires.
THAT IS A LOAD OF CRAP. THE RULES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY MILLIONARES SO AS TO KEEP MOST WORKING PEOPLE FROM BECOMING MILLIONARES, NOT THE HC LAW OR ANY GOVERNMENT PROGRAM
C. None of the Govt programs to date have eliminated poverty from America.
NONE WERE MEANT TO, BUT UP UNTIL THE REAHGAN ADMINISTRATION, WE HAD ESSENTIALLY ELIMINATED HUNGER IN AMERICA. REAGAN KILLED OR GUTTED THOSE PROGRAMS AND NOW PEOPLE ARE GOING HUNGRY AGAIN
D. What evidence is there that the ACA Tax will eliminate poverty in America?
WHAT EVIUDENCE IS THERE THAT ANYONE SAID IT WOULD? WHERE DO YOU GET THIS CRAP?
E. It is claimed that the ACA TAX would cover the 35–40 million currently uninsured – Yes! However, it’s estimated that an additional 30 million who currently have healthcare would now be without it specifically because of ACA Tax.
NONSENSE, PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE INSURANCE CAN KEEP IT.
So no gain, just a switch in population.
STOP LISTANING TO RUSH LIMBAUGH AND FOX NEWS
F. If, as some believe, it is govt spending which drives the economy to prosperity, how come that prosperity has not occurred?
WHO BELIEVES THIS? AGAIN, YOU ARE GOING BY THINGS RUSH LIMBAUGH PULLS OUT OF HIS EVER WIDENING ASS.
"None of the programs were meant to eliminate poverty?"
Now that's a load of crap!
That means the War on Poverty was a war we didn't want to win!
That means that you want there always to be some Americans in poverty!
What are you personally doing to give those hungry people you know food?
Where are these people, who are they, why are they hungry?
Does this mean that the Obama Administration has failed to provide for the "general welfare" of the people? After doubling the national debt in 5 years, what have we to show for it, if as you claim there are Americans who still are hungry?
Let me guess your answer and response to all the above: you are going to blame
1. GOP
2. Tea Party
3. Conservatives
4. The RICH
5. Limbaugh
6. Big Business
7. FOX News
Why do you have a fixation with Limbaugh's rear end? Have you seen it? Ive never? How do you know so much about it? Is it large? Is it hairy? Share with us what you know?
Drink you coffee, before you say something really stupid, again.
p.s. Weren't we told that the recession ended in 2010, the year of the SUMMER RECOVERY?
Mozart,
In case you over looked this, I'm bringing it to you before coffee attention span.
"Where did I say "not a single Republican amendment was permitted in the ACA(TAX LAW)" as you claim?"
Just keeping it real.
Anonymous, go back to Fox news and get some better lines. You might try an Oxycontin like your master.
It’s always refreshing to see “conservative beliefs about role of wealth and govt.”
First a little review:
the liberal belief system that prosperity is not owned by the person who worked for it but by the govt who allowed the worker to keep the fr4uits of their labor. The belief that all money belongs first to the Govt.and they determine who and how much is a person allowed to keep.
Not one liberal believes what you think they believe. You utterly fail to comprehend "the liberal belief system".
But you believe liberals are destroying America. You're one to spout about false beliefs, sport.
Romney was not a conservative,
Fanatic ideological purity standards make a mighty small minority...who still wants, and demands, to dictate for the rest of us.
This is why most Americans say "No thanks" to the Tea Cult. You either have not accepted that fact, or you don't care.
Dictatorship by a minority is un-American where I come from. Is that your idea of how a democratic republic operates?
His nonsensical 5 point copy and past gibberish by Armageddonist wacko Adrian Rogers was dealt with by thoughtful copy and paste rebuttals.
That should bring us up to the alphabet soup of “concerns”..
A. Govt programs will not and have not made the poor into millionaires.
B. Govt programs may take away the incentive of the poor to work to become millionaires.
C. None of the Govt programs to date have eliminated poverty from America.
D. What evidence is there that the ACA Tax will eliminate poverty in America?
E. ...ACA TAX would cover the 35–40 million currently uninsured – Yes! However, it’s estimated that an additional 30 million who currently have healthcare would now be without it specifically because of ACA Tax.
F. If, as some believe, it is govt spending which drives the economy to prosperity, how come that prosperity has not occurred?
Mozart was correct in assessing this load of BS.
Sensible folk know this to be true. "None of the programs were meant to eliminate poverty" Programs are meant to ameliorate the conditions of poverty.
However:
Now that's a load of crap! That means the War on Poverty was a war we didn't want to win! That means that you want there always to be some Americans in poverty!
So let’s have some fun with the Con-servative reaction.
Then Chuckie’s “load of crap” means the war on drugs is intended to eliminate drugs. The war on terror is to eliminate terror. The FBI is to eliminate federal crimes. The military, CIA, and NSA are to eliminate war and foreign threats.
None of those have been eliminated.
I guess that means con-servatives want to end all of these government programs. Right?
That’s a lot of failure, false beliefs... or a lot of straw men. ;-)
Never discussed by the radical self-postioned anti-redistributionists is the well-established FACT that a far higher percentage of welfare and other federal largesse goes to RED states than blue.
Wonder why. Any con want to field that one? LOL!
Next, I once again extend the one-way courtesy of answering questions.
In the meantime I have a few easy questions. When was the last time a poor person started a war? When was the last time a poor person off-shored American jobs? When was the last time a poor person bribed and bought politicians to write them favorable de-regulations and trade agreements?
Can you explain to me where the fight between the rich and poor is taking place?
In the state and federal legislatures and in the offices of their fellow opponents of democracy.
Will this fight be on pay for view? Is Don King the promoter?
No, and no.
Would you please give sources supporting there is a fight?
How about from Ben Stein, a wealthy Republican money man/actor with a monotone?
“In Class Warfare, Guess Which Class Is Winning”
By Ben Stein
Put simply, the rich pay a lot of taxes as a total percentage of taxes collected, but they don’t pay a lot of taxes as a percentage of what they can afford to pay, or as a percentage of what the government needs to close the deficit gap.
Mr. Buffett compiled a data sheet of the men and women who work in his office. He had each of them make a fraction; the numerator was how much they paid in federal income tax and in payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, and the denominator was their taxable income. The people in his office were mostly secretaries and clerks, though not all.
It turned out that Mr. Buffett, with immense income from dividends and capital gains, paid far, far less as a fraction of his income than the secretaries or the clerks or anyone else in his office.
If, in fact, it’s all just a giveaway to the rich (tax cuts) masquerading as a new way of stimulating the economy and balancing the budget, please, Mr. Bush, let’s rethink it.
Alas, we all know how grudgingly con-servatives “rethink” anything.
So let’s ask one of the richest guys in the world:
“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” – Warren Buffett
And let’s take other Republican sources on their fight against the poor in the legislatures.
“Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done." - GOP State House Majority Leader Mike Turazi (R-Allegheny)
Senate Republican Mike Bennett, from Bradenton, suggested it might be too easy to cast a ballot.
"We do make it convenient for people to vote," he said. "But I have to tell you, I don't have a problem making it harder.
Want more ?
Sen. Bill Nelson introduced into evidence a deposition unearthed by The Palm Beach Post. It showed that the Republican attorney who engineered the 2000 Florida felons list, which African American leaders said purged thousands of eligible blacks from voter rolls, drafted Florida’s controversial law that restricted early voting and voter registration campaigns in 2012.
In a written statement to the committee, he said: “For me it’s pretty straight-forward: Florida’s 2011 election law changes were politically motivated and clearly designed to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters – and, not, as its Republican sponsors contended, to prevent voter fraud.”
How about some more ?
Former Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer says he attended various meetings, beginning in 2009, at which party staffers and consultants pushed for reductions in early voting days and hours.
“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told The Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only. … ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’ ”
We have more if you need it.
In the meantime I have a few easy questions. When was the last time a poor person started a war? When was the last time a poor person off-shored American jobs? When was the last time a poor person bribed and bought politicians to write them favorable de-regulations and trade agreements?
Well that was a clever twist to the Republican talking point of Elite and Corporate worship. Taken to an extreme, we should be grateful to work 90 hours for stale bread and ditch water.
As the standard of living and the quality of life gets constantly eroded for the average person,Republicans say we should give even more wealth to the obscenely wealthy. I say Screw That!
I guess I’m overcome by the spirit of generosity and kindness toward Chuckie today. Let’s take a couple more questions.
Maybe you could explain how the rich hurt the poor?
Republicans are doing their utmost to cut food stamps, unemployment, and safety nets. They are also imposing greater restrictions on voter registration and poll access. Yes it’s a one-way fight by the powerful over the disenfranchised.
47% of Americans do not owe federal income taxes, can I assume then, that they are the poor who need help from the govt in fighting the rich who, "can never get enough for themselves"?
No. We do not have a 47% poverty rate.
Have you ever gotten work from a poor person?
No. See my easy questions in my 2:57 post.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dave Dubya, if I had to guess, the "47% of Americans do not owe federal income taxes" is the regular Rightwing talking point. Remind him most of that 47% are the unemployed, the working poor (particularly with children), students and retirees, so that he can ignore it and eventually repeat it. It's like a duet where the other person keeps on changing the song, but it has roughly the same lyrics. Did you know that 47% of people don't pay federal income taxes? Isn't that an outrage?
In any event, he's wrong. It's not the 47% who are losing the fight. It's the 80%.
It is amazing that after 5 years of Hope and Change that per the link Moe provides there has been no economic growth. It is only gotten worse.
The the blame for that belongs to:
1. GOP
2. Tea Party
3. Conservatives
4. The RICH
5. Limbaugh
6. Big Business
7. FOX News
Still waiting for proof that I said this as Mozart claims I did.
"not a single Republican amendment was permitted in the ACA(TAX LAW)"
Wow James, it sounds like the only moral, peaceful people in the world are the poor, those that live in poverty. I guess we all should be come poor, then there would be no more wars, and the other things you listed that the poor never have done or caused.
One thing for sure, since being poor is better for us and the Planet, we should surrender and declare defeat to the War on Poverty.
Am I a racist by sharing this with you?
Am I only posting this to discredit our first black President?
"CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo puts the focus back on the real issues with Obamacare and not on the ‘glitches’ that everyone seems to want to talk about. She told her colleagues on Meet the Press this morning that Obamacare is hurting job creation by forcing business to change their models from full-time employment to part-time employment because health insurance has become too expensive."
Wonder who is going to hire her now that she has told the truth liberals dont want to hear?
Anonymous "Still waiting for proof that I said this as Mozart claims I did. 'not a single Republican amendment was permitted in the ACA(TAX LAW)'"
"Anonymous said... 9) Obamacare would be bi-partisan – Not.Even.Close, not a single Republican amendment permitted...".
At least Anonymous has finally faced reality about who to blame for the economic problems the country is in. It's a start. From a tiny acorn a mighty oak grows.
MO,
The radical Righties MUST ignore, or at the minimum distort, every fact we present. I think it's in their FOX (R) manual.
not a single Republican amendment...You call that proof? LOL! He will ignore that too.
Bartiromo is paid to shill for Big Money at CNBC. She's less a journalist, and more a "Money Honey" bed-mate for Wall Street. There will ALWAYS be a corporate media job for those who display loyalty to wealth.
Did she even say, "forcing business to change their models"?
Nope. Just "Businesses are COMPLAINING about the cost of health care". Yeah, we all do. We'd better do everything the wealthy tell us, though, or they might complain again. LOL!
No wonder no quote was provided. All they can do is copy and paste their propaganda.
"Before Passage of the law the proponents of Obamacare said:
#9. Obamacare would be bi-partisan – Not.Even.Close, not a single Republican amendment permitted. 100% passed by Democrats in 09′."
Mozart said "IT (the ACA TaX) WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY REPUBLICANS!!! Almost the entire thing is a "republican amendment"
And you have proof that a single GOP amendment was permitted to be added to the ACA Tax?
And you have proof that any Republican voted for the ACA Tax?
And you have proof that "almost the entire thing is a republican amendment"?
Please share if you do.
All I am saying is give poverty a chance! (that's for James in our mutual quest for World Peace.)
We have another culprit for liberals to blame when their policy's dont win the War on Poverty.
Appearing for the first time in months, it comes in at number EIGHT!!
1. GOP
2. Tea Party
3. Conservatives
4. The RICH
5. Limbaugh
6. Big Business
7. FOX News
Drum roll please, or at least some kazoo playing L'Internationale. A little French lingo for you Modusoperandi.
8. BIG MONEY(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH little money, what ever that is)
Mozart, since you are such an expert on Limbaugh's "wide ass", where was his "wide ass" sitting last week when he did his highest rated radio show?
Anonymous "And you have proof that a single GOP amendment was permitted to be added to the ACA Tax?"
S.AMDT.2808, sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [R-LA]. Passed by unanimous consent.
Mozart, Here's a link to help you get signed up for the ACA TAX.
youtube.com/watch?v=nLg4bKslQm8#t=171
His wide ass was sitting on one of the Koch Bros tiny dick, and he doesn't have the ratings he claims anymore. Sponsors are dropping him left and right. Besides, It's easy to have high ratings when all the AM stattions are owned by conservative partisans. Gilligans Island had high ratings too, it didn't make the show a "documentary" or high social commentary. You have been proven to have said what I attributed to you. What say you to that?
Good catch Moe.
Looks like another example of the GOP's war on women.
Good thing a REPUBLICAN Senator read the ACA TAX or there would have been a restriction on mammograms for women.
Description: To prevent the United States Preventive Service Task Force recommendations from restricting mammograms for women.
Amends Bill: H.R.3590
Sponsor: Sen. Vitter, David [R-LA] (Submitted 12/02/2009) (Proposed 12/02/2009)
Cosponsors: 0
Latest Action: 12/03/09 Amendment SA 2808 agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.
Mozart,
You are starting to show your IQ.
Hope that link I provided you helps you when you sign up for the ACA Tax. I'm pretty sure Limbaugh had nothing to do with it's production. So you can watch with out any fear of having your mind confronted with truth and reality. Let me know if it helps, please.
Got a question for you, as you are THE expert on Limbaugh's ass, how do you find the time to discover the size of one of the Koch Brothers "male parts"?
Are you a Peeping Tom, or registered sex offender?
Blame alert, I'm happy to announce that our good friend and spelling bee champ, Mozart, has uncovered another reason why liberal policy's fail.
1. GOP
2. Tea Party
3. Conservatives
4. The RICH
5. Limbaugh
6. Big Business
7. FOX News
Drum roll please, or at least some kazoo playing L'Internationale. A little French lingo for you Modusoperandi.
8. BIG MONEY(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH little money, what ever that is)
9. "all the AM stattions are owned by conservative partisans"
Not even a thank you from Chuckie for my fact filled answers to his questions and insightful analysis of his beliefs.
More proof that I was correct. The radical Righties MUST ignore, or at the minimum distort, every fact we present. I think it's in their FOX (R) manual.
Chuckie, Still playing your "L'Internationale" commie card, we see.
1. GOP
2. Tea Party
3. Conservatives
4. The RICH
5. Limbaugh
6. Big Business
7. FOX News
Drum roll please, or at least some kazoo playing L'Internationale. A little French lingo for you Modusoperandi.
8. BIG MONEY(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH little money, what ever that is)
9. "all the AM stattions are owned by conservative partisans"
10. there are not enough peaceful poor people!
Looks like no more questions from poor Chuckie. His entire cult belief system has been shattered and he can't face reality. Poor, poor, frightened little Chuckie.
All he has left is his commie card to protect him in his bubble of fear. He's terrified that the commie liberals are destroying "his" America.
Now he's reduced to clucking his Chuckie Chicken distractions and pathetic excuses for "honest debate".
Poor wittow fwightend authoritarian.
We're here to help, if only he can absorb information counter to his cult programming.
But alas, he's to chicken to open his fearful mind.
AP(PHILIP ELLIOTT)
Reports that Hope and Change is producing a more peaceful America as "almost 6 million young people are neither in school nor working, according to a study released Monday."
That's almost 15 percent of those aged 16 to 24 who have neither desk nor job, according to The Opportunity Nation coalition, which wrote the report." The coalition also reports that "49 states have seen an increase in the number of families living in poverty and 45 states have seen household median incomes fall in the last year. The dour report underscores the challenges young adults face now and foretell challenges they are likely to face as they get older."
The Opportunity Nation is a coalition made up of businesses, advocacy groups, policy experts and nonprofit organizations dedicated to increasing economic mobility.
Can I get a
"YES WE CAN"
for old times sake?
"YES WE CAN!!!"
I love you OOOOOOOOOOOBama!
Thank you for the free food stamps!
I love you OOOOOOOOOOOBama!
Thank you for free medicaid!
I love you OOOOOOOOOOOBama!
Thank you for the free cell phone and minutes so that I can keep in touch with my social worker!
OOOOOOOOOOOBama! OOOOOOOOOOOBama! OOOOOOOOOOOBama! OOOOOOOOOOOBama!
"YES WE CAN!!!"
Hey Moduspropogandi (aka Tom Degan)
The Canadian firm that designed the ObamaCare software system also failed in Canada.
Do you know if it is common to have mentally challenged people work on important jobs to promote social justice in Canada?
Must be George Bush's fault or the Coke Brothers behind ObamaCare's web flop!
This is a pretty blistering report by CBS News on the rollout of Obamacare via the HHS website that cost $634 million to build. CBS News not only says it was ‘nothing short of disastrous’, but interviewed a computer database software expert who said he would be embarrassed had his company rolled out something like this. He said it’s not demand that’s killing the website, but rather it wasn’t designed well and looks like it wasn’t even beta tested. He said the website needs a complete overhaul. Great, how much more will that cost us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=81DBEKlrJsM
Be careful, carpatunnel syndrome caused by trying to get online to the site is not covered.
Last week Canada’s Supreme Court ruled that doctors could not unilaterally ignore a Toronto family’s decision to keep their near-dead husband and father on life support.
In the same breath, however, the court also confirmed that, under the laws of Ontario, Canada’s most populous province, a group of government-appointed adjudicators could yet overrule the family’s choice.
That tribunal, not the family or the doctors, has the ultimate power to pull the plug.
In other words: Canada has death panels.
Well, I'll say one thing for sure, this roll out of the ACA TAX answers the question "what could possibly go wrong with the government running my health care?"
Anonymous is right. That end-of-life decision shouldn't be up to doctors. It should be up to the insurance company.
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