Monday, August 26, 2013

Jesus Who?



'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

Jesus of Nazareth
From the gospel according to Matthew 25, 31-46

JESUS IS A COMMUNIST!!!

"The Nazz"
A gent by the name of Dr. Rick Lippin left a link on my Facebook page early yesterday evening.  It was an opinion piece from the Forward Progressive website by Allen Clifton. It was titled: "It’s Time to Tell the Truth: Republicans Aren’t Christians". That left me a bit confused. Do you mean to tell me that there are people out there that are only now figuring this out?

Did you ever notice how a lot of these so-called right wing "Christians" are so crazy to have the Ten Commandments engraved into the marble facades of courthouses and government buildings all across this once-great nation? Why is that? The Ten Commandments are from the Old Testament. Jesus isn't even mentioned in that book - not even in passing!

Why has not one of them ever asked that the Sermon on the Mount be engraved on these public buildings instead? Those are Jesus' own words! Straight from the Holy One's mouth, so to speak. I'll tell you why: because Jesus' words in that sermon are anathema to the twisted ideologies of the modern conservative movement, that's why. Think about it....

The meek will inherit the earth? Are you kidding me?

Blessed are the "peacemakers"? Sure, unless that's the name of a guided missile.

BLESSED ARE THE MERCIFUL??? I'm not even gonna comment on that one.

Dick Gregory once remarked that if Jesus Christ (or "The Nazz" as Lord Buckley called him) were to come back to earth today, instead of nailing him to a cross the right wing would tie him to a giant peace sign and roll him off of a cliff. I wonder what the Prince of Peace would have thought of tax cuts for a class of people who already have more money than they'll possibly be able to spend in three lifetimes. I am not a theologian, but I have a sneaky suspicion that Christ would not have approved. Call it a silly hunch on my part.

FOR THE RECORD: Jesus healed people with pre-existing conditions. Did this make him "some kinda damn socialist"??? You gotta wonder. You really do!

I wonder what Jesus would have thought about this blog of mine - or what he thinks of it. The Son of God wasn't a fan of calumny, and I must confess that I can be pretty nasty at times. I'm sure he would not smile upon my referring to the previous president as "a half-witted frat boy" - or worse. I'm certain that he would not have been pleased when a couple of months ago I referred to Sarah Palin as a "brain-damaged bitch". 

My problem is that this site is an outlet for my anger. Anger isn't as good a motivation as sorrow. The problem is that I'm more angry than sorrowful. In fact I'm in a blind freakin' rage. Also I don't claim to be what I'm not. I've never said that I have a hot line to the Almighty. He has never spoken to me (as he seems to "speak" to so many Republicans these days - Have you noticed that?) I'm not a perfect Christian but I will tell you this: If Mitch McConnell showed up at my doorstep one cold and stormy night - hungry and homeless - I would take him in, feed him and give him a warm bed to sleep on. Were the rolls reversed I don't think old Mitch would reciprocate. In fact I'm certain the old bugger would have me arrested - or shot

NOTE TO THE KOCH BROTHERS:

Go out and purchase yourselves a camel. I'm not too sure what the going rate on camels is these days but, what the hell, you guys can afford it. When you get that camel home, try slipping it through the eye of a needle. Good luck.

If the GOP really is the party of "family values" then that is one twisted, funky and dysfunctional family, baby. If they really are the party of "Christianity" (as so many of them claim to be) they really need a refresher course on what it means to be a true "Christian". Too many of our right wing friends do not worship Jesus. They worship Ayn Rand. Paul Ryan never requires the interns on his staff to read the Beatitudes. Instead he made the reading of Atlas Shrugged manditory. By the way, Ayn Rand was an atheist who thought that religious people, Christians in particular, were nuts. Something to think about, ay?

There is nothing - and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - within the agenda of the modern-day right wing/Tea Party/conservative/Republican movement that has a thing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ. But then again, I'm really not giving away any state secrets here, am I?

Have a holy Monday, folks. Seriously.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY 

SUGGESTED READING:

The Sermon on the Mount by Jesus of Nazareth
From the Gospel According to St. Matthew

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.


There, that wasn't so hard, was it?

42 Comments:

At 5:04 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Well put! This is what many people have been saying for a long time, but it can't be said enough. However, the fun part is yet to come, when we see how conservatives find ways to spin it and make excuses. The best one is "Rich people give more to charity than poor people" I have reletives that are EXTEMELY conservative and CLAIM to be Christian, and when I point out to them that by today's political standards Jesus was a LIBERAL they go out of their minds.

 
At 5:44 AM, Blogger Sheria Reid said...

Well said and quite accurate. I can't decide if those on the Right that constantly declare themselves to be Christians and assert that America is a nation of Christian principles are lying or delusional or perhaps, both.

 
At 9:27 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Interesting post and one that should generate some healthy discussion. As a Christian, I warn other Christians that there is no “Jesus party” in America. By and large, Caesar doesn’t typically bow his knee. The Republican party has, in my opinion, used Christianity more than it has espoused it. And, I find the Democratic party to be no better in that regard. It is a fair comment about people holding Rand in high regard and calling themselves Christians – that’s always been a head-scratcher to me. I find her to be philosophically repulsive and her writing to be mediocre at best.

Christ had much to say and we can’t take bits and pieces out of context. So, as you read the entirety of the Sermon on the Mount, he was expanding upon the Law and teaching folks that even a superficial effort at following the Law wasn’t enough to achieve the righteousness that God demands (e.g. – our lust being guilty of adultery, hate of a brother being guilty of murder…). And, that ultimately the Law points us to our moral failure and need for forgiveness and redemption. He also taught that He had come, not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it (on behalf of those who would follow Him).

The world of men has always been and always will be corrupt and ruined – which is why He came in the first place. His story is the most important and most fascinating reality there is – and the only hope for men. No other man, or party, or “ism” can give us hope, though we will continue to try it. Our politics to Him are trifling and mere foolishness – He would probably chuckle if you asked Him which “side” He supported. Akin to asking which form of terminal cancer you’d rather have.

 
At 11:34 AM, Anonymous Jay said...

Hello again Tom,

I'm not going to gain any fans with my comments, but here goes:

The GOP uses religion because if you are dumb enough to believe a Fatherly Figure sits on a magical cloud and chooses 800 year old drunk to build an ark, you might just believe they have a plan. It's that simple!

If you're one of these lunatics praying over your dying child rather than taking them to a hospital--you just might be GOP material. If you think dancing around with snakes is going to do anything other than get you bit--you just might be GOP material. If you can easily gloss over the fact that "God" was a vindictive prick in the Old Testament and accept a new re-branding in the New Testament; along with a new character that was forgotten about in the Old, you might be simple enough to be a GOPer.

You might have guessed, I'm a bit hostile towards religion. I do not believe and I honestly question the sanity of people who literally believe in the Bible. I might have converted had this alleged Almight hurled a thunder bolt toward Adam Lanza's way at Sandy Hook or turned him into a pillar of salt. "He" didn't. Many would say, "God" works in mysterious ways..." Bullshit!. Somehow this God only seems to show up at when a high school gay couple wants to go to prom, or in Michelle Bachmann's veiw as a natural disaster "punishing" us for our defict, or on toast. Jesus and the Almighty are big on toast.

There was a recent article from California were people were flocking to a "weeping tree." It was said it was a "miracle." It was bug shit Tom. Bug shit! Some infestation of bug had shitted up and down the tree and these mental cases are standing around it holding up their hands basking in bug shit! They probably voted for Romney too! He was portrayed as the Second Coming also, but upon further examination, he was bug shit too.

Now there are some great passages from the Bible that, if we all lived by, would make our society great. However, the same can be said about many of the writings of Dr. Seuss! I'll cite, "The Lorax" and "The Better Butter Battle."

For many years, I never pushed back against religion. hey if people want to spend their Sunday doing Christian aerobics--sit, stand, kneel, pray--g'head. Be happy! If you feel it makes sense God always appears to some lone person out in the middle of nowhere, speaks through burning bushes, and are "ok" with the obvious incest in the Bible--I really didn't care.

It's when these lunatics started appearing on my doorstep harassing me with booklets that read, "Jesus Loves You--Are You Prepared for Death?!?" that I started getting pissed off. While I don't expect the Church to embrace homosexuality, it'd be nice if they weren't overtly discriminatory against it either. When I read about church sponsored homeless shelters turning gay youth away...well I don't feel very "Christian" towards Christians. It also amazes me how these jag-offs sit around for most of the school year indifferent to the youth in their community, but let a gay couple want to go to prom and they suddenly get interested in their local high school.

The GOP will never embrace the true meaning of the Bible because there is no power in the true meaning.

Jay
http://loraxlog.blogspot.com

 
At 12:10 PM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

“...a man will be justified by faith when, excluded from righteousness of works, he by faith lays hold of the righteousness of Christ, and clothed in it, appears in the sight of God not as a sinner, but as righteous...”
John Calvin

@Harley A.

DITTO

 
At 1:31 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

Jay,

I’ll ignore the condescending and offensive tone and your use of weak and ridiculous straw man arguments, indicating to me you haven’t the foggiest understanding of Christianity… and, so not worthy of further debate…

You invoke the concept of morality, as do most atheists. So, outside of God as the one who is able and has the property rights to establish morality, where do you get off claiming that anyone should act in ANY particular way? Why, for instance, was it wrong for Lanza to shoot children? In your construct, they weren’t innocent – because you destroyed guilt and innocence as a category (you simply don’t understand that you’ve done so). I’m assuming you are a materialist/naturalist, in which case you have destroyed any teleological warrant to the child or any reason that it holds any value – it is just an accidental conglomeration of chemicals, whose value is purely subjective and certainly up for debate. You’ve no basis upon which to establish any guilt on the part of Lanza.

In my construct, I attribute morality to God as the one who establishes absolute moral law and affirm that it is his rightful sphere of influence. In your construct, you take it upon yourself to proclaim what should or should not be, based on... well, based on something I know for a fact you cannot articulate nor defend logically (and, frankly, I hope you try). In truth, it is the atheist who is the self-deluded and egotistical bigot – not the Christian.

Also, it is presumptuous that you seem to speak for all Democrats as if Christianity is owned by Republicans. I know some very dear friends who vote Democrat that would take you to task.

 
At 5:07 PM, Blogger De_Bill said...

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw

People have always used their religion as a convenient rationale to get their way.
What their faith actually teaches is secondary in their minds to what they feel is 'right'.
'Christian' by itself doesn't identify the people on the right. You need to include ' science denying, xenophobic, inflexible' and then add 'Christian'.
There are plenty of Christians who do a lot of good in the world, and a fair percentage of them are politically conservative without being obtuse. They're mostly the disappearing moderate Republicans, as they watch their party run headlong into a brick wall.

 
At 5:53 PM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

I do not have an issue with the instruction from Jesus to take care of the least of us. I believe it is the duty as a Christian to do so.

My issues with Tom's understanding of His position are as follows:

1. Who defines what makes a person poor? The State? The very same State that has distorted the separation of Church and State clause to where having a minute of silence before a H.S. football game is declared that silence as a violation of that clause. The same State that by its actions prevents economic growth through it's rules and regulations on private business. The same State that funds Planned Parenthood the number one provider of abortions in the USA with tax dollars from pro lifers?
They get to define what is poor? Sounds a bit like the Fox tending the chicken house doesn't it?

2. The statement that Jesus was a Communist. Since Communism hadn't been "discovered" in 33 AD, that instruction to care of those in need, was not an instruction to use Communism as a way to redistribute the wealth of 49% of the people through the workings of the State (who has to take their cut to pay their employees)for final redistribution to the poor and needy.

3. What was discovered before 33AD was the instruction, if you don't work, you don't eat. I understand the outcry towards this instruction, that there are no jobs do you want me to starve, die from disease? No I do not. I would however ask you to reconsider voting Democrat again and expecting prosperity to return. It is not in the best interests of Democrats for the private economy to grow and for the State to shrink. And there is a limit to what can be taken by taxes from the private economy before it collapses.

4. The abuses of what the State declares is needed by the poor has no relationship to what the poor really need in order to find work that prevents them from being "the needy" again. The providing for the poor does not include the tools needed to never need help from the State. I do not think that is an accident, do you? If so, Ive got a bridge for sale and it might just fit your needs. Can we talk?

5. Great example of the State preventing actions that would give the needy the tools needed is the actions taken by the State against schools vouchers and Charter schools. If education is the best way to reduced poverty, then why would the same State that makes that claim, take steps to decrease the level of schools that can out perform other schools in the name of improving desegregation? Or for that matter any reason? See actions against Wash D.C. and Louisiana public schools. Is the State claiming that the poor can not reach their full potential unless they are keep from schools which have the highest performance results? Seems like it.

6. Is it Christian to keep people in poverty by teaching them their status in life has been caused by someone else? Have the poor been taught that they have zero responsibility for their status in life? That it is some one else who has kept them in poverty? Would Christ tell today's poor and needy that?

7. Name one law passed, or offered, one policy put into place, one Presidential Executive order that has been issued, that has a positive effect on the unemployment rate? Has the number of poor gone down? Has the numbers of Americans who depend of the State for their food and care gone down? If the answer is no, then what good have what the current programs been done?

I agree that Jesus command is still in effect and correct. I wonder if he would frown upon the States roll in the failed polices used to address poverty and needy and sick. I believe the State is not the source of wealth, but the destroyer of wealth. And no where do I find Jesus saying we all must have the same level of existence in order to be like Him.

 
At 7:55 PM, Anonymous Dave W said...

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Thats what Jesus and I believe! AMEN!

Thanks Tom for pointing out that Jesus was the first communist!

I'm going to give my only coat to someone at the Prison when I report to work tomorrow!

 
At 11:38 PM, Anonymous just the facts said...

Woohoo! Preach it Rev. Chuckie Naa Naa!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

A sermon from Rev. Chuckie Naa Naa makes my day. That’s a big pile of...ah...shall we say beliefs? I’m sure all this dogma will be every bit as correct as his last sermon about Jesus, taxes and Roman welfare.

I especially love the fact he leaves us with this deep concluding thought:

I wonder if he would frown upon the States roll in the failed polices used to address poverty and needy and sick. I believe the State is not the source of wealth, but the destroyer of wealth.

Yes, Jesus would no doubt agree with the mammon-serving Republicans, and command the state’s safety nets be gutted before Obama destroys America. He would never say something commie-like, “Render unto Washington that which is Washington’s.”

1. Who defines what makes a person poor? The State?

Yeah! What do THEY know? Dumb Census Bureau and Stupid Bureau of Labor Statistics.
This, like every other public policy matter, should be decided by the Koch Brothers and other billionaires.

2. to care of those in need, was not an instruction to use Communism

Yeah, why are we using Communism here in America? Help us from the evil Commaism that Obama that Marxist Muslim has imposed on our dear nation. Oh, look out! I see another post from Chuckie as a “Commie Dave W”. ...again. He loves dearly loves that lie as trollery How did Jesus feel abut liars, Rev.?

3. reconsider voting Democrat again and expecting prosperity to return. It is not in the best interests of Democrats for the private economy to grow

Heavens, yes! Nothing has improved since the crash of September 2008, and the climbing unemployment rate. EVERYTHING is worse now cuzza Obama the Marxist Muslm. (Who hates America)

And there is a limit to what can be taken by taxes from the private economy before it collapses.

Amen. So we can go back to the tax rates under Nixon.

4. abuses of... no relationship to what the poor really need in order to find work that prevents them from being "the needy" again. The providing for the poor does not include the tools needed to never need help from the State.

Yeah, public education is really a bad, bad Commie thing. Look at how the commie teachers and their commie schools have turned us into Commie America! AARRGGHHH!!!

5. actions taken by the State against schools vouchers and Charter schools

Yeah, that’s cuz the Commies want public education. And they hate private profit schools that teach about Jesus and the dinosaurs being around about the same time. How’s anybody gonna get a job if he don’t know that kind of important stuff?

6. Is it Christian to ...Would Christ tell today's poor and needy that?

Why would He preach Republican dogma?

7. what good have what the current programs been done?

No good at all, right? What good is giving the poor food stamps, housing support, and health care. No good at all, right? I mean “Right”? In fact, as any real American knows, the poor deserve to starve. No job, no eat. And it’s the Commies fault, not the “job creators” that there are not enough good jobs.

Name one law passed, or offered...

On Thursday September 8, 2011 President Obama presented the American Jobs Act in an address to Congress. But as we learned, that’s clearly not an acceptable answer. As it is also clearly unacceptable to ask the same question about Republicans. How do we know?

Ask Rev. “Chuckie Naa Naa”. But as we all know, Rev. “Chuckie Naa Naa” doesn’t answer questions.

Naa naa naa naaa naaaa!

 
At 9:26 AM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JTF –

I think people like you and Jay need to be a bit more humble when you approach these subjects. You do not understand them nearly so well as you think you do. One example from among many errors I could address… Your use of Christ’s discussion on “render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s” you clearly do not understand. Jesus was not primarily making a comment about government, rather he was illustrating that, since Caesar’s “imprint” was on the coin, then he had the right to collect the taxes in his “kingdom”. The larger meaning of the message as analogy was that God’s imprint (the “imago Dei”) is on us and therefore we owe ourselves (obedience, worship, love) to Him as He is ultimately the King, thus rendering to God what is His. His teachings are often subtle and to focus on the prima facie meaning could be to miss His point.

Having said that, I do not believe our current economic system in the US (or the world) is in any way biblical or in keeping with Jesus’ teachings. On that we would likely have some agreement. I see a system built on two main foundations – consumerism and usurious debt – neither of which are Godly things (nor are they necessary tenets of capitalism, by the way). But, there is some fair criticism for us to consider in all of this, I’ll admit. If Christians believe our current socio-economic model is good, I think we are off base.

 
At 9:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What would JTF do?

NEW HAVEN- Police arrested a 35-year-old New Haven man on gun charges among others after an allegedly unprovoked attack on a 71-year-old man.

Jorge DelaPaz was arrested on charges of assault in the third degree of an elderly person, carrying a dangerous weapon, carrying a pistol without a permit, criminal posession of a pistol and interfering with police.

Police say on Sunday, Aug. 25, the elder New Haven man was eating a hamburger in the Goffe Street Park following a Toni Harp mayoral campaign-sponsored event that afternoon when he was approached by the 35-year-old. Police say DelaPaz told the elder white male that he shouldn’t be “in his park where young black kids are playing”. When the man refused an order from DelaPaz to pick up a football, DelaPaz punched the man multiple times in the face, knocking him to the ground. Police say several witnesses supported the victim’s account of the unprovoked attack.

Upon police arriving at the scene at around 3:40 p.m., DelaPaz fled the scene on foot. When he was apprehended, police say he resisted and injured the leg of a responding officer. After being detained, police found a Sig Sauger P239 handgun, a set of brass knuckles and a voter registration card in DelaPaz’s bookbag. DelaPaz gave multiple false names before his identity was determined. Police say DelaPaz is a convicted felon.

 
At 12:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What would JTF do?

The president tomorrow will once again address the issue of race in American life in a speech commemorating the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington. Administration officials, however, bristled at suggestions that he make even a symbolic trip to the predominantly black city of Detroit, which last month filed for bankruptcy.

“There’s not a goddam [thing] we can do right now to help them,” an Obama aide told Politico’s Glenn Thrush.

In tomorrow’s speech, the president will look to link King’s vision with his own achievements, including the passage of Obamacare. In a radio interview this morning, President Obama argued that King would have been in favor of the law. “Oh he’d like that,” Obama said. “Well, because he understood that health care, health security is not a privilege, it’s something in a county as wealthy as ours, everybody should have access to.”

Andrew Johnson

 
At 12:45 PM, Anonymous just the facts said...

Harley,

I get your point, and agree with much of what you said. I admit satire and sarcasm are far from humble in description. I am not satirizing anything but Chuckie Naa Naa’s arrogance, ignorance and dogma.

I also understand the context of “render unto Caesar”. Jesus was rebuffing the attempts of Pharisees and a Herodian (religious/political conservatives of the time) to ensnare him. Like all conservatives, they resented some hippie freak defying their authority and talking about love for God and neighbor. He cleverly turned the “Render unto” retort on their attempt to corner him.

And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: For they knew that he had spoken the parable against them; and they left him and went their way. Mark 12:12

And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and one of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.
Mark 12: 13

Chuckie Naa Naa had previously preached outright falsehoods (Yeah, what else is new?) upon which he based his own conclusion of what Jesus though of government: “Think for a second, when Jesus said give to Cesare what belongs to Cesare, did Rome(Cesare)have welfare programs to take care of the needy? No! So Jesus was not supporting the money be given to govt for redistribution of the wealth as Liberalism want today.”

I provided historical documentation that this was wrong. Rome did indeed have a public program of food and even medical aid to the poor. Jesus would have known that, right?

I respect your point of being humble on spiritual matters, but humility is not appropriate when confronted by the brainwashed cult that thinks liberals are commies. He is a bigot, insane, or willfully indoctrinated to lies, and his words seethe with a most un-Christian hatred for all those he falsely sees, and repeatedly accuses, as communists.

I hope you understand this.

 
At 12:46 PM, Anonymous Friend of Shorty said...

What would JTF do?

PITTSBURGH
Three teenage girls are facing several charges, including ethnic intimidation, after police said they brutally beat a 32-year-old woman Sunday in Pittsburgh’s North Side.

Investigators said the incident happened around 2 p.m. near the intersection of Concord and Itin streets.

According to police, the girls threw a bottle at the woman’s car, and when she stopped to confront the girls, they attacked her.

“It’s sad, but it doesn’t surprise me. Our youth …,some of them are going in the wrong direction,” said one resident who did not want to be identified.

Officers said the woman was kicked, punched, robbed and left in the middle of the street. Police said they also called the victim a racial slur.

Witnesses ran to help the woman and one man said he watched as the three young black girls, ages 14, 15 and 16, were arrested.

“About 10 to 15 minutes later a bunch of cop cars came up and put them all in the back seat of the cop car,” the man said.

The victim was taken to Allegheny General Hospital and is expected to be OK.

The girls were taken to Shuman Detention Center and charged with ethnic intimidation, robbery and conspiracy.

NEW HAVEN CT.>> Police arrested a 35-year-old New Haven man on gun charges among others after an allegedly unprovoked attack on a 71-year-old man.

Jorge DelaPaz was arrested on charges of assault in the third degree of an elderly person, carrying a dangerous weapon, carrying a pistol without a permit, criminal possession of a pistol and interfering with police.


Jersey City, NJ Michelangelo Conte
The black St. Peter’s Prep student who purportedly received racist text messages warning him to drop out of the Jersey City high school's student government election sent the texts to himself, a school official confirmed last week.
The black St. Peter’s Prep student who purportedly received racist text messages warning him to drop out of the Jersey City high school's student government election sent the texts to himself, a school official confirmed last week.

"He is the type of boy who does not want any kind of trouble," the father said. "It's so sad. He doesn't want the image of the school to be tainted."

"It is a predominantly white school and there may be a few sections of the school who are fearful of a new face trying to get in office,” the father said at the time.

 
At 1:43 PM, Anonymous Right Wing Nut Job said...

Yeah, Anonymous!

Democrat party of hate, party of the Klan, the Dumbocrats. The party of racism, homosexuality, abortion, the party of death.

But who expect dumbocrats to know shit.

They all hate America, what with their evil Marxist Constitutional taxes and regulation of commerce. Oh, and that evil Marxist Constitutional "promote the general welfare" part.

Liberals are evil commies! They support the Marxist Constitution, and want expanded voter rights instead of restricting voter rights.

All they want are commie death panels! And Brown people taking MY stuff!

Arrrgghh!

Liberals hate America!

Liberals are commies!

You are true heroes of the State!

Black on white crime!! Black on white crime!! That’s PROOF that all liberals are racist commies!

Alinsky! Alinsky! Benghazi! Benghazi! Death Panels! Death Panels! Commies! Commies!!

We want Wall Street banks to write laws and regulations, not liberal commies!

We want a one-party, no-compromise dictatorship by the GOP, Party of Mammon!

Only evil liberal commies disagree.

 
At 4:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Right Wing Nut Job said

And your point is?

 
At 4:48 PM, Anonymous Right Wing Nut Job said...

And your point is?

I agree with everything you say, bro!

 
At 7:44 PM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

JTF,

Looks like we have found a point we can agree on. Further I admit my error, Rome did have a welfare system, just like ours, which was developed and supported just like ours currently does, and for the same reasons!

Lets see how that welfare system effected the History of Rome
First, why was there a welfare system in Rome.

Grain supply to the city of Rome and Populares

This phrase originates from Rome in Satire X of the Roman satirist and poet Juvenal (circa 100 A.D.). In context, the Latin metaphor panem et circenses (bread and circuses) identifies the only remaining cares of a new Roman populace which cares not for its historical birthright of political involvement. Here Juvenal displays his contempt for the declining heroism of his contemporary Romans.[5] Roman politicians devised a plan in 140 B.C. to win the votes of these new citizens: giving out cheap food and entertainment, "bread and circuses", would be the most effective way to rise to power.

… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses[6]


[...] iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses. [...]

(Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)

Juvenal here makes reference to the Roman practice of providing free wheat to Roman citizens as well as costly circus games and other forms of entertainment as a means of gaining political power. The Annona (grain dole) was begun under the instigation of the popularis politician Gaius Sempronius Gracchus in 123 B.C.; it remained an object of political contention until it was taken under the control of the autocratic Roman emperors.

So JTF, you are saying that today's welfare system is like Rome's was, "a means of gaining political power'?

Some of the reasons for the decline of Rome.
1. Mass migration is the biggest reason for the collapse of Rome. (Legal?)
2. Bad emperors
3. Economic problems. Rome was spending more than it could afford. The free food rations for the non working poor of Rome and Constantinople were costing a fortune.

The only thing I have been able to find about Roman free medical care is about the fees charged this: "That the poor paid a minimal fee for the visit of a medicus." And "The fees charged were on a sliding scale according to assets" I cant find any source to support the concep that medical care was free.


Now I don't know what you base your belief on that I am " a bigot, insane, or willfully indoctrinated to lies, and his words seethe with a most un-Christian hatred for all those he falsely sees, and repeatedly accuses, as communists". But I'm not going to waste minute of my time trying to dissuade you of your belief. In the long run, the person who holds on to as much hate as you have expressed towards me, with or without reason, only holds it as long as it supports a position they know in their heart in wrong.



 
At 8:23 PM, Blogger Harley A. said...

JTF -

I don't have a problem with some jabbing or sarcasm. I'm just not understanding why you have such acrimony for Chuck. I think he brings up some good points and does it the right way. Far more collegial and articulate than many, if not most, of the followers. I think the caricature you've built of him in your mind doesn't fit the reality. You realize that in his reply, his only reference to communism was in response to Tom's post, right?

In any event, your prerogative...

 
At 9:40 PM, Anonymous just the facts said...

Chuckie,

It is admirable of you to admit your error, although your response to me when I gave you the facts was:

You are a waste of good good band width.

Even still, I don’t hate you. You have false Right Wing beliefs that encourage your contempt for liberals. So I know where your hate comes from. I have family and friends that share your beliefs. I still love them.

A significant part of your false belief system was indicated in your phrase, “not an instruction to use Communism as a way to redistribute the wealth of 49% of the people through the workings of the State (who has to take their cut to pay their employees)for final redistribution to the poor and needy.”

This is clear indication of your belief that public safety nets constitute Communism. By logical extension, your beliefs would include regarding liberal supporters of such public safety nets as communists.

And there are numerous other instances of your alter egos casting more direct aspersions and red baiting. Don’t try to lie to us. We know this is true. “Chuck Morre” is the name you recently took as a facade of a more civil troll. You adopted that moniker while arguing with Charles Moore. It’s all back there for us to read.

I have a background in both language and psychology. Your disguises are not that hard to detect.

You really don’t understand liberals, and you do not seem to understand there is a difference between public social programs and communism.

 
At 9:41 PM, Anonymous just the facts said...

So JTF, you are saying that today's welfare system is like Rome's was, "a means of gaining political power'?

No, I am not saying that at all. In fact, over extension of military empire, greater opposition by enemies, internal warring factions, and corruption were greater factors than bread and circuses in the fall of Rome. By the time Rome fell, its armies were not even comprised of Romans anymore.

The “means of gaining political power” 'statement is from your copy and paste. It is from an article “Bread, Circuses, Spending Cuts, Unicorns, and the Appearance of Wealth” by a libertarian, James Quinn. That paragraph is repeated at Wikipedia.

We wonder if you agree with other points he made in the same article:

For the last forty years America has shifted from a society that created goods into a society that created debt. (Reagan took us from a creditor nation to a debtor nation)

The disparity in wealth between the super rich and the working class has never been greater. The working middle class that built this country has been systematically destroyed as the super rich have used inflation and debt to lure them into servitude, while the unproductive parasites have learned it is easier to feed off their middle class host than work for a living. It is clear to anyone, except a Republican ideologue, that when the top 10% richest Americans abscond with 50% of the income in the nation through their control of politicians, Wall Street and the few mega-corporations that set the economic agenda, a convulsive change is necessary.

When you see your leaders take actions that clearly are not in the long term best interests of the American people, you need to ask why. Since September 2008 your leaders have funneled trillions of dollars to the Wall Street bankers that nearly destroyed the worldwide economic system. They have funneled billions into the coffers of the mega-corporations that outsourced your jobs to Asia. They ramped up their wars in the Middle East to reward their friends in the military industrial complex.

When you watch the talking heads and contemptible pundits on Fox, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN and the other mainstream corporate media spinning our economic situation in a positive way, remember that every person you are listening to is a member of the top 1% richest Americans. They have large portfolios of stocks and will not let reality or truth interfere with their ambitions of further wealth and power. This country is controlled by the few for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.

I doubt the American Empire will linger on for centuries. The world moves rapidly. The Vandals (Goldman Sachs) and the Huns (JP Morgan) are at the gates.


Do you still want to quote him? Care to discuss his other points? If so, maybe we can find more agreement.

 
At 11:38 PM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

JTF,

You call this "HATE":
"You are a waste of good good band width"?

Sorry JTF, where I come from that's a gentle ribbing.

I apologize, I didn't know you were so sensitive so sheltered. I have a degree in clinical psychology. I will do my best not to analyze the issues in your life that cause you to react so angrily towards me. Instead I will turn the other cheek. And I will forgive you and ask that God forgives the both of us. I forgive you for making light of my Christian faith, as you have when I am explaining to James when he asks me questions. If find those posts offensive, I'm very sorry. But I will not stop posting them to prevent upsetting you. When you see those posts, I suggest you use your right to read and not read them. I will not back down an inch on my pro life position to avoid hurting your feelings. Again please don't read them if they upset you.

I do not want to ignore your points, questions and statements you made at the end of your post. So here is what I want you think about, and it's what I've already said and I do not believe you really answered or understood them.

"Tell us what the Obama jobs bill was and how many African Americans would it have put back to work?

What was the number the Senate and House put on the Obama jobs bill? I'd like to read it on the Congressional record.

So the problem is not the Republicans but Wall Street? Didn't you just claim that it was Republicans who blocked Obama's jobs bill, now you claim it's Wall Street?
How would it benefit Wall Street to keep unemployment in Black Americans high? How does stopping the Obama's job bill make the bankers rich?"

Next, I can not fix what others post here that you might think is me, anymore than you can control what Right Wing Nut posts. Guess you are going to just have to deal with that like an adult or not, as that is "your prerogative".

Final. If you would read my posts you would see my issue is not with the safety nets or public social programs. It is with the FACT that they never work like we were told they would, that they are never allowed to expire, that these programs only grow with no accountability to those who are funding them(tax payers), they create a dependent class in our society, they become an entitlement over time and the very govt who determines the usefulness of these programs is not held accountable for these short comings.

Does that sound like hate to you? Does that sound un-Christ like to you? What I hope you would hear is a Christian conservative who is asking why with all the money that has been and will be spent on these programs, there is a constant need for the growth of the current programs and a continued push for more of same!
It makes no sense.

 
At 10:51 AM, Blogger Mozart1220 said...

Did you see how fast the Religious fruitloops changed the subject and turned this into an "Obama bad" thread? "Christians" of today are so far removed from what the Biblical Jesus was about it's hilarious.

 
At 11:07 AM, Blogger Tom Degan said...

I agree, Mozart, it is amusing. I've been asked more than once why I do not delete the trolls. My answer is always the same: How could I? Their comments are the most hilarious thing about this blog.

Happy Wednesday, everyone!

Tom

 
At 11:22 AM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie,
my issue is not with the safety nets or public social programs. It is with the FACT that they never work like we were told they would, that they are never allowed to expire,

What were we told, other than helping the those in need of food, shelter and medical care? Show us where someone promised there would never be a need for safety nets, please. Oh, that's right, you don't answer requests.

Wasn't there just a reference to Jesus saying there would always be the poor? What were you told about them that would indicate safety nets would no longer be needed? How do you reconcile that with there always being poor people?

Yes we know, you don't answer questions.

You also don't want to discuss the other points from the article you quoted. Too bad, we may have found agreement. But you don't want to blame Republicans or failed Wall Street capitalism for anything. You choose to scapegoat safety nets and public programs.

The "waste of band width" was rude to say the least, especially in response to my telling you the truth. This shows your real feelings toward liberals. You dish it out but can't take it.

The Obama jobs proposal was an answer to your question. The American Jobs Act(S. 1549) (H. Doc. 112-53) and (H.R. 12) is the informal name for a pair of bills proposed by U.S. President Barack Obama. Another answer would be the Civil Right Act launched by the Kennedy Administration.

So if yours was a fair question, then so is this:

So name one law passed, or offered, by Republicans, one policy put into place, one Presidential Executive order that has been issued, that has a positive effect on the unemployment rate of black males in America?

Still want to play your one-way game? Typical Right Wing "my way or the highway", "hell no" and "never compromise" arrogance?

I guess it always has to be your way... That must be what you consider "adult".

I have to wonder about your claim to a degree in clinical psychology. Where is it from? A Michigan prison, perhaps? You seemed oblivious to projections and other defense mechanisms you've presented over the past.

OK Chuck let's see you swear on the Bible, swear to Jesus, you've never posted under another moniker...

Keep telling lies or try the truth. It is your prerogative.

 
At 12:36 PM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

Dave Dubya,

Is it the name I use to post or what I post that upsets you the most?

 
At 3:41 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie Naa Naaa,
Your silence on my request is telling. I seem to remember you saying you were an account executive, so I had to wonder how being a "clinical Psychologist" would fit that job.

I guess you don’t want to Gimme Some Truth. No surprise. No truth, no answers. Not a shred of decency to answer questions, just demanding answers and posting copy and paste crap under various monikers.

Is it the name I use to post or what I post that upsets you the most?

No, none of your lies and dishonesty upset me. We expect that from you.

Now for some truth:

I confess I’m not the original “just the facts”. Chuckie Naa Naa is.

Chuckie, Harry, Anonymous, Just my two cents, "commie Dave Dubya", Harry From a Michigan Prison, etc. and all your other monikers, going back to someone calling himself "just the facts", until he wanted so many more identities to misrepresent and deceive. As typical to Right Wing trolls, he appropriated other identities.

You can find his Just the facts Identity at this.blog

Here’s a photo of our troll and his blogger ID as Just the Facts.

Chuckie, does this Photo look familiar? Go ahead, tell us another lie or refuse to answer. We know the truth.

Now go ahead and delete the evidence. We can ask TP about you as "Just the facts". He's more honest than you are and will tell the truth.

Since it is well known you hate fair dialogue and refuse to answer questions, while posing as others, I admit to playing your game back at you

You, however cannot admit to the truth. Some Christian. You practice hate and deception, not love and compassion.

We got your number sport. Everybody knows your lies and dishonest little game.

How do you live with yourself? How do you sleep at night? You must truly have no conscience.

Your ilk is explained in John Dean's book, "Conservatives Without Conscience".




 
At 2:09 AM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

Dave

You really need to calm down, and take a chill pill or something.
I said I have a DEGREE in clinical psychology, not as you misquote me as having a job as a
"clinical Psychologist".

I think I will just let your rage devour you spirit, there are somethings honest and logical thinking can not over come in another person.

 
At 5:56 AM, Blogger Jim Lynch said...

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi

 
At 12:45 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuckie, we see you don't deny the evidence supporting my case that you are a liar. I guess that would fall under your special rule that you don't answer questions. Only liberals are on trial here, Right?

a DEGREE in clinical psychology...From a Michigan Prison? Is this why you prescribe a "chill pill" for someone telling the truth?

you misquote me as having a job as a "clinical Psychologist".

I did not. Your clinical skills are lacking, or you're just dishonest again.

This is what you misrepresented.

"I seem to remember you saying you were an account executive, so I had to wonder how being a "clinical Psychologist" would fit that job."

Seems you'd make a poor clinical Psychologist, or a poor account executive for that matter, by such dishonesty and misunderstanding.

let your rage devour you spirit, there are somethings honest and logical thinking can not over come in another person.

A person with a bachelors in psychology would see the blatant projection in that statement.

Do you need me to explain this again for you? I won't bother.

You are a liar. Liars are the ones who hate, especially the truth.

You, however cannot admit to the truth. Some Christian. You practice hate and deception, not love and compassion.

We got your number sport. Everybody knows your lies and dishonest little game.

How do you live with yourself? How do you sleep at night? You must truly have no conscience.

OK Chuck let's see you swear on the Bible, swear to Jesus, you've never posted under another moniker...

Keep telling lies or try the truth. It is your prerogative.

We all know the former will continue. It's the "Right" thing to do.

Please, we want more. Just don't answer any questions. Questions are for you and you alone. For it is we, the "evil commies", who must never question, always believe, and obey the authoritarian.

How about another sermon, oh ye Liar of Moral Superiority, servant of mammon, and agent of the Deceiver? Oh, and self-proclaimed "Christian".

LOL!!!

 
At 4:36 PM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

Dave,
I will pray for peace that passes all understanding to come into your life.

 
At 5:20 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Chuck,
Thanks, but I'm not asking for prayer. Save that for the poor and ill. I'm at peace, contrary to your belief that we need government for everything. All I'm asking is for you to be truthful, and engage in fair dialogue, like Harley. I pray you find the conscience to do so.

I've given you honest answers to your questions. Why is it you cannot return the courtesy?

As I stated: "I don’t hate you. You have false Right Wing beliefs that encourage your contempt for liberals. So I know where your hate comes from. I have family and friends that share your beliefs. I still love them."

Here's a tip.

Confessing your deceptions and speaking the truth helps. It would have been better to do so before being busted, but it still wouldn't hurt you to be honest for a change. Your avoidance of truth and demand for one way questions detract from your defense of your beliefs, and portray you as the worst kind of troll.

I'm saying this out of tolerance and kindness. If you return with more falsehoods, disrespect, deceptions, and accusations, I shall respond accordingly. I'm Christian enough to turn the other cheek on many things, but those offenses listed above will not be suffered gently.







 
At 8:05 PM, Blogger Sal said...

Tom, Great website: Religion Poisons Everything.

 
At 9:23 AM, Anonymous Chuck Morre said...

"If you return with more falsehoods, disrespect, deceptions, and accusations, I shall respond accordingly."

Who said I ever left?

 
At 3:57 PM, Blogger Steve Finnell said...

SELECTIVE "FAITH ONLY" SALVATION

FAITH ONLY BELIEVERS IN CHRIST DENY THAT THE NEW COVENANT PLAN OF SALVATION WAS NOT IN EFFECT UNTIL AFTER THE DEATH, BURIAL, AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS. (THAT WOULD BE ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST) IN ORDER TO BE SAVED WITHOUT BEING BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF THEIR SINS. (WATER BAPTISM) THEY PROCLAIM THAT THEY CAN BE SAVED LIKE THE THIEF ON THE CROSS. (LUKE 23:39-43)
IF MEN TODAY CAN BE SAVED LIKE, THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, THEN WHY CAN THEY NOT BE SAVED LIKE, THE RICH YOUNG RULER?

LUKE 18:18-22 A RULER QUESTIONED HIM, SAYING, "GOOD TEACHER, WHAT MUST I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?" 19 JESUS SAID TO HIM, "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? NO ONE IS GOOD EXCEPT GOD ALONE. 20 YOU KNOW THE COMMANDMENTS, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.' 21 AND HE SAID, "ALL THESE THINGS I HAVE KEPT FROM MY YOUTH." 22 WHEN JESUS HEARD THIS, HE SAID TO HIM, "ONE THING YOU STILL LACK; SELL ALL THAT YOU POSSESS AND DISTRIBUTE IT TO THE POOR, AND YOU SHALL HAVE TREASURE IN HEAVEN; COME AND FOLLOW ME."

WHAT WAS THE RICH MAN'S PLAN OF SALVATION?

The rich man's question was what must I do to inherit eternal life?

1. Do not commit adultery.
2. Do not murder.
3. Do not steal.
4. Do not bear false witness.
5. Honor your father and mother.
6. Sell all your possessions and distribute them to the poor.

Jesus said do this and you shall have treasure in heaven.

Can men today be saved by, the rich man's plan of salvation? OF COURSE NOT!

Can men today be saved by, the thief on the cross plan of salvation? OF COURSE NOT!

The apostle Peter preached the first gospel sermon under the New Covenant on the Day of Pentecost.

THE NEW COVENANT PLAN OF SALVATION
1. FAITH: John 3:16
2. REPENTANCE: Acts 2:38
3. CONFESSION Romans 10:9-10
4. WATER BAPTISM: Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:1-7, Colossians 2:12-13.

(All Scripture quotes from: NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE) YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY CHRISTIAN BLOG. Google search>>> steve finnell a christian view
.

 
At 2:52 AM, Blogger Grettalulu - Dr. Victoria Massey said...

Son of God? A prophet? Just a good man and good teacher? Who cares. All I know is that his teachings are the best of I know to show us how to treat our fellow man. The New Testament only needs the Four Gospels. The rest is poisoned by that crazy misogynist Paul and what fundy so-called "Christians" practice today is Paulism and not Christianity. I always think of Gandhi's words: "I like you Christ; I do not like your Christians." How appropriate.

 
At 2:55 AM, Blogger Grettalulu - Dr. Victoria Massey said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 2:59 AM, Blogger Grettalulu - Dr. Victoria Massey said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 12:21 PM, Blogger JWMJR said...

Well I just don't recall Jesus calling for the Romans government to feed the poor and help the sick. He called on INDIVIDUALS to do it as a personal moral responsibility. That's the trouble wilt liberals, they don't believe in such things. Why should they when they can get the government to do it for them with other peoples money.

 
At 12:46 PM, Blogger Dave Dubya said...

That's the trouble wilt liberals, they don't believe in such things.

No, that's just the warped con-servative view of liberals.

We know what Jesus told the rich guy. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Rich guys don't do that, so we have social programs.

And we know Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar".

 
At 8:39 PM, Blogger Alieux (Daij) said...

This blog post speaks too my heart. It does! I agree 100%. This is what I tell people all the time about rethugs.

Great post

 

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