Ten Minutes or Ten Years Ago?
"....that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain - that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Abraham Lincoln
"With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us, God."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt
"Go shopping"
-George W. Bush
There will be a lot of talk today in the media and out in the blogosphere about what happened to this country ten-years-ago today. I'm terribly sorry but I haven't much to add to the discussion.
In spite of the passage of an entire decade, it refuses to fade from memory, that's for sure. Those attacks might as well have occurred a couple of hours ago - they are that ingrained into our collective consciousness. That it was the most depressing and horrifying day in the lives of most of us is hard to argue with. And the addition of ten years of 20/20 hindsight only adds to the despair. You see, it is now crystal clear - in a way that it was not at the time - that America's luck ran out on September 11, 2001.
And how lucky we were. All throughout our incredible history, whenever this country was faced with an unprecedented crisis, fate had always placed in the executive mansion - by pure happenstance - a leader of great wisdom and ability. Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt come immediately to mind. That wasn't the case on September 11, 2001.
The terrible carnage of 9/11 was only the beginning. Our "rulers" (I refuse to describe them as "leaders") used the devastating events of that day as an excuse to plunge this once-great nation into economic ruin via two unfunded wars, while simultaneously granting massive tax cuts for a class of people who already had more money in their bank accounts than they knew what to do with. The results were as predictable as the setting sun. The use of that metaphor is by no means accidental.
If Osama bin Laden's mission on September 11, 2001 was the complete and utter destruction of what used to be the "United" States of America, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.
I'm going back to bed.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
Remember the time?
America the Beautiful
by Ray Charles
Was this a great country or what!
posted by Tom Degan @ 7:02 AM
47 comments
47 Comments:
Depressing but I agree. I don't want to diminish the tragedy of that event in any way and I don't think we should ever, ever forget it. At the same time, all the commercialization, politicization -- hyped by the media -- has caused me to move on whenever I see mention of it.
Leslie, unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, the corporate mainstream media haven't asked the hard questions or probed the unanswered ones. Omission is its greatest sin.
I believe most Americans, down deep, want to know the real truth of what happened that day, but at the same time are afraid and uncertain of what that may be.
It's up to each person to discover, and confront, when they're ready. Many already have, many more are at the threshold, whereas many more will never want to confront the very real possibilities. It's just too painful.
jg,
your profound words of wisdom bring tears to my eyes.
OMG,
The hate you lefties have for GWB is beyond belief.
If, as JG implies, 9-11 was an inside job, then how was it planned in 9 months? After all, if it is true as Tom states
("All throughout our incredible history, whenever this country was faced with an unprecedented crisis, fate had always placed in the executive mansion - by pure happenstance - a leader of great wisdom and ability. That wasn't the case on September 11, 2001.")
how could this be done by a President lacking in great wisdom and ability?
Or did the President with "great wisdom and ability" (Clinton) in office before GWB set up and plan the 9-11 inside job, with the goal of his V.P. Gore being the President instead of GWB?
Or was the 9-11 inside job planned by then Senator Edwards with the goal of then President Gore being killed when the plane/bombs hit the White House? That way Edwards would become President.
But something I have never clearly heard is, if 9-11 was not an inside job, in the liberal mind set, what would have been the correct response to the attacks?
Jefferson,
are you implying 9/11 was an inside job? if so, you are an even bigger anti-American ASSHOLE than i have thought.
I wish I could disagree with you, Tom.... I look at things that have happened in our democracy in direct consequence of 9/11 and I can't. Yes, there were a few brief moments in the immediate aftermath where hope and unity looked possible, and the heroism of the first responders still brings tears to my eyes - but instead of rising to statesmanship, those who had been elected to lead us led us into unspeakable acts (waterboarding - need I say more?), severe erosion of our civil rights and protections, and xenophobia. I hold GWB and Cheney directly responsible for, at the very least, creating the climate where these acts became inevitable, for cronyism and opportunism, for waste of resources and human lives. I suspect history will eventually see the GWB presidency as one of the most unfortunate episodes in our history of a nation.
pragmatist said...
You must be talking about President Obama, cause he sure hasn't stopped the things you hated so much when done under GWB.
Like I asked JG, if 9-11 wasn't an inside job, what would have been the liberal response to the attack?
If Osama bin Laden's mission on September 11, 2001 was the complete and utter destruction of what used to be the "United" States of America, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.
I read somewhere that he said his target was our economy. It hit the bulls eye.
I just read a position that was the opposite of this, and though I disagreed with the argument I noted that it was well-made. This article puts that one to shame because it expresses my opinion, which is to the say, the right opinion, with greater eloquence than I was able to do.
Hmm. Should I plagiarize it?
Despite his sociopathic and cruel nature, I’m not suggesting Cheney launched the 9/11 attacks, but he knew how to capitalize on the tragedy. We now live in a surveillance state permanently at war, with Halliburton/KBR reaping fortunes.
The US irrevocably crossed over into the dark side after that, no matter who did what on that day ten years ago. Too many questions were ignored by our corporate media, as they parroted the Bush/Cheney propaganda on Iraq. Phil Donahue's show was cancelled because he asked too many questions.
Even disregarding the mysterious collapse of building number seven, how is it we have never seen footage of a jet hitting the Pentagon? Tape surely exists, but for some reason it is never shown. Why?
Something stinks, other than the agenda of the warmongers.
Oh, what the hell. Go for it, pal.
Cheers!
Tom Degan
"Phil Donahue's show was cancelled because he asked too many questions."
I know how that feels, Dave, because you remove my posts due to my asking too many questions of you on your blog.
Like this one, if 9-11 wasn't an inside job, what should our response have been?
Also, sounds like your splitting from your lefty friend JG a bit there by saying you don't Cheney launched the 9/11 attacks, but he knew how to capitalize on the tragedy. Sounds a lot like Rahm Emamuel's policy of never letting a crisis go to waste.
God, if only Tom would remove JTF's posts! How cool would that be?
Much as I wish these knuckleheads would go away, Leslie, I have a strict rule that I adhere to: that no one - regardless how crazy their argument might be - shall be censored from this site.
My advice, should they wonder off-topic in order to confuse and obstruct the argument being put forward, is to simply ignore them. When you respond to idiocy it only further encourages them. Turn the other cheek - as Christ admonished us to do.
Also, there are those exceedingly rare occasions when they do make a valid point. I recall about four or five years ago one of them actually did.
And this must also be remembered: They make for great comedy.
Sincerely,
Tom Degan
Hey Tom, have I wandered off topic? Have I been unkind to anyone? My posts have been about your subject matter for this thread or a response to anther's post.
It wasn't me who first brought up the possibility of an in side job at 9-11, that honor goes to the 2nd post on this thread by JG. My response to him was again about 9-11. As was my post in response to "pragmatist".
Dave D brought up the question of Phil Donahue's show being canceled because he asked too many questions. Note I didn't ask Dave to support his claim, but it would be a good question, don't you agree?
If you read my posts you will see they all are in line with the subject matter you presented.
In fact the the first post on this string that does not deal with the subject you selected was that from "Leslie Parsley"! Who is calling for liberal censorship..I thought only the far right censored the views of those they don't agree with, like Dave D claimed was done to Phil Donahue.
I didn't post anything today just reading blogs.
Coffee is on.
One of my favourite local writers shared this
http://www.ydr.com/mike/ci_18860017
Of course, I still can't forget The Emperor Chimp reading The Pet Goat upside down...
Just read that Mike Argento column you linked. Very good!
"We have become the kind of people we used to go to war against".
He makes a good point. In fact we have gone to war against our selves. It's not so much a civil war as it is a mass suicide.
Tom: "I recall about four or five years ago one of them actually did."
Ha.
I'm aware of and applaud your strict rule on censorship, and have learned to ignore the unenlightened for the most part. It's just that this comment by JTF struck me as particularly funny, precisely because of your rule.
As the old saying goes, Leslie"
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."
We can also - all of us - rejoice in the SCADS of accidental comedy!
The United States 9/11 tragedy was rather small potatoes compared to the Iraq 'Shock and Awe' tragedy.
Yeah, Tony. I recall the night of the invasion of Iraq, the electronic media were broadcasting images of distant explosions, marveling idiotically about the wonders of American military technology - conveniently omitting the dreadful fact that for each of those teeny-weeny flashes of pretty light, a score or more of people were being incinerated.
It's always a different story when "others" are on the receiving end of the terror.
Dear Tom Degan, I have great respect for your opinions and "The Rant" however, I do not think Al Queda and bin Laden succeeded pm 9/11.
They caused great tragedy, and their mission was quite ingenious in an obscene sense to turn our air transportation system against us as weapons was quite a plot.
I often hope and pray that all the negative energies were used for positive means, what an even more wonderful world we would have.
I don't mean to seem PollyAnnish, just my dreams, (and I'm not even wishing on a star, haha) Amituofo, your faithful fan. mary jaco
Taken from a friendly blog...
In memory of those who died on September 11, 2001 and in its aftermath:
2,977 in the attacks, representing more than 90 countries and all major faith traditions, 403 of whom were first responders
7,503 American and coalition forces in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
an estimated 13,375-33,000 Afghan civilians (conflict-related deaths)
an estimated 100,000-650,000 Iraqi civilians (conflict-related deaths)
From the Gregorian Mass for the Dead:
Lux aeterna luceat eis, Domine, May eternal light shine on them, O Lord,
cum sanctis tuis in aeternum, with Thy saints for ever,
quia pius es. because Thou art merciful.
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, Grant the dead eternal rest, O Lord,
et lux perpetua luceat eis, and may perpetual light shine on them,
cum sanctis tuis in aeternum, with Thy saints for ever,
quia pius es. because Thou art merciful.
Tom
"It's always a different story when "others" are on the receiving end of the terror."
So what do you suggest we allow "others" to do to us to make it more fair?
Thank you for your informative and entertaining blog. I have found much of interest here. Peace.
I was given a great big 'shame on you' by a friend, for making the comment last week that if I had to hear about 9/11 one more time I was going to be sick. I was told that obviously I didn't have any friends that died from the tragedy, otherwise I would have a different attitude and be more respectful and honorable of the dead.
I have had a lot of family and friends die, all of whom I miss. I am a graduate of Columbine high school, I know tragedy closer than I would like. In none of these circumstances do I want or need to remember or recollect horrible circumstances of death, or even gentle ones. I honor those that have passed by remembering their life, death is not anything but bad.
Which leads me to call out the corporate media circus as using this event, year after year, to beat the drums of war and revenge, all the while rolling out advertisement after advertisement for their pathetic profiteering corporate brethren. It's like Christmas holiday, only worse, because now instead of Santa Clause you have Satan's Cause, and the message 'never forget' can now be interpreted as 'never stop bombing people that have things we want'.
2 wars and now a third in the region. hundreds of thousands dead. Multiple civilizations in shambles. A world that's polluted and poisoned. And still the only enemy to identify with is no more real than ghosts in a graveyard.
Wave the cloth, sing the song, pledge the whatever, but never forget that what comes around goes around, and when the worthless managers of the fiat system crank out their last bailout, others might never forget too...
My first read on your blog, Tom. I'll bookmark it.
Thank you for that! Check out Chewy Bees' blog, folks. It's pretty cool!
http://www.chewybees.blogspot.com/
Who cares what Dave Dubya has to say? What a Hugo Chavez media censor! He could easily get a job in Hugo's state run newspaper.
Dave Dubya, in your "arguments" on your blog, you are just like the Politicians in Washington who are programmed to deflect and avoid answering questions.
Your lap dog WeaselDog, should be renamed BigBullShitDog.
Wonder what, if anything, Dubya thought of Paul Simon's Sounds of Silence?
Is Iraq repaying us with their oil profits?
Watching Dubya's face when notified of the WTC attack cements his legacy as Moron and Chief.
GWB's management style - Point me in a direction and tell me what to say!
Gypsy Bob,
Do you still get tingles up your leg when the big bullshit artist you voted for reads from his teleprompter?
It won't be long till bullshit barry is building houses with the other guy you voted for, Jimmy Carter.
Tom Degan,
On 9/11, I was reading the article "Dems Fret Aloud Over Obama's Re-Election" and all the comments in the NYTimes. It looks like a lot of libs want to throw Obama under the bus and I can understand their frustration. The number of people Obama has thrown under the bus would give me carpa tunnel syndrome if I had to type them all!
I am really starting to get nervous that Rick Perry would run over Obama in the presidential election.
I think its time we started supporting Hillary to challenge Obama in a primary. I'm hoping we can start a grass roots movement in the blogosphere. We need to get key people like Jefferson's Guardian and Dave Dubya to support the movement.
Let's face the facts. Obama has really turned out to be a crappy president but was a damn good campaigner.
Anonymous....and we all know why you haven't the courage to use your name....
Every president since Dwight D. Eisenhower has used a teleprompter. I find it quite interesting - and very revealing - that it wasn't until the black guy entered the White House that it became an issue.
Did you ever see Ronald Reagan attempt to "wing it"? The results were always beyond pathetic.
For all the flaws of this president (and there are more-than-a-few) at least he has the ability to speak extemporaneously.
Sincerely,
Tom Degan
Michael Stivic....
An incumbent president who is challenged in the primaries from within his party is usually so weakened that he almost ALWAYS loses the general. The only exception to this rule that I can think of is Harry Truman in 1948, who survived a challenge on the right - AND THE LEFT.
Obama leaves a tad to be desired, no doubt about it. But we should not lose sight of the fact that he is damned better than ANYTHING the GOP has to offer.
All the best,
Tom Degan
I gotta give it a little credit.
"Michael Stivic" is one of the Anonymous Troll's more imaginative deceptions.
Dave Dubya,
Have you read "Dems Fret Aloud Over Obama's Re-Election" in the nytimes and the comments from the left? It doesn't look good for our president who said he would change how things are done in Washington and get rid of the special interests who buy our congressional votes.
Dave, are you telling me the Coke Brothers are behind all the negative comments about our President in that article?
I have a question, which I think I know the answer to, but are you Caw, Anonymous?
Tom, even with the aid of a teleprompter, George W. Bush was an embarrassment to not only himself, but to the nation. I'd cringe every time he spoke.
Gypsy Bob, your comment about Bush brought back memories. I'll bet money, after he left the second grade class and boarded Air Force One, he had to change his pants.
How many terrorist attacks have been successful on US soil since 9/11?
BTW, anyone catch the election results in NYC last night? Your Deity is toast.
This is a link that will allow all of us who care about the great work President Obama has done, to report to him the lies and falsehoods being spread by the Tea Party and other members of the extreme far right!
my.barackobama.com/page/signup/o2012-attackwatch-report-an-attack
Tom, Down here in San Antonio in my local paper we get an occasional column by a ret. Army gen, MOH holder.
He is quite the fascist, but the reason that I bring him up, other that the fact that he really like bush, is that in his last column(not the one today) he stated that he dreamed about a military takeover of the govt and how quickly a Brigade could set things right and run the country correctly.
I know a bit OT, but the fact that this gen get a column in my local paper(which BTW, claims to be non partisan)along with all the other wingers and the fact that all of the news seems to become more slanted to the right, while at the same time not really telling us anything.
I stopped watching the national news because they do not ever tell us anything more than our local news does.
It is no wonder that we have become the most ignorant polity in the industrial world, the corporate media ensures that the sheeple are fed the news that they want us to know, everything else just kind of goes away after 1 day(like the Downing st memos did)
At any rate, great column as usual.
As we become a nation of mushrooms-kept in the dark and fed shit-the internet is the only thing that might save us, except the corporate whores(our congress, the best that money can buy)might just take that away also.
Tom Degan, Dave Dubya, Jefferson's Guardian,
I read the following and am deeply troubled about our Democratic chances in 2012:
Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Bob Turner, with voters dealing a rebuke to President Barack Obama in a traditionally Democratic district, won the New York City House seat that scandal forced Anthony Weiner to give up.
The Associated Press reported that with 88 percent of the vote counted in yesterday’s special election, Turner had 54 percent and Democrat David Weprin had 46 percent.
In another special election for a vacant House seat in Nevada, Republican Mark Amodei defeated Democrat Kate Marshall. Amodei was favored to hold the seat that fellow Republican Dean Heller vacated this year when he was appointed to the Senate to replace John Ensign, who resigned in the midst of an ethics inquiry into an extramarital affair.
I agree with my ex son-in-law Michael Stivic that 2012 is going to be disastrous unless we get Hillary to challenge the incompetent buffoon we have in the White House. I'm very afraid that Rick Perry will win and cut off my social security and force me to go to Bible school.
Obama has sold out to the multinational banks and corporations and is just as greedy as any Neocon! How he got a Nobel Peace Prize for what he has done in the Middle East drives me batty!
boltok....the NYC results stem from the Dems finally having the sense to put Israel in its place which pissed off the Jewish folks in that district. They vote with their hearts and not with their brains. BTW....all things considered it is quite possible the Woodstock Nation Party will support Hillary Clinton if she were to primary Obama....did I just say that ?? :-)
Ellis, My somewhat limited experience with orthodox jews lead me to believe most were NOT Zionist. The problem for BHO is everyone is waking up. When you lose in NYC as a democrat, you have no Hope.
Lean Forward? Lean Forward and Take It Up the A@$ ?
boltok,
I plan to report some of the things Jeff Guard, Dave D and Tom have said about our president on this blog.
Yes, please report every word. That would be much appreciated.
Have a nice day!
Tom
PS 0 Have the courage to post your name. I'm just sayin'.
Lean Forward in 2012,
Let Obama know I put a bumper sticker on my car:
"I just got my Government Stimulus, but now my arse hurts!"
Obama will be gone soon, so you better report me now.
Do you still get tingles up your leg when obama speaks?
Sure will, right after Jeff G Dave D, Pepperlady and a hosts of others do so first.
Not to worry, I'll be sure to give your blog and your name all the credit for what I turn in.
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