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| Meadows |
In the eleven months and ten days since the January 6 insurrection that attempted to overthrow democracy in America, the paid stooges at FOX Noise have been downplaying what went on that day. And yet we now know that, at the moment the shit was hitting the fan, some of the most visible hosts on that channel were furiously texting Trump's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, imploring him to have Trump take to twitter with a video telling the rioters to go home. Brian Kilmeade actually telling him that the rioting was in danger of undoing all of the ex-president's "accomplishments". What exactly those "accomplishments" were he didn't make clear.
FOX needs to be completely destroyed. There is a damned good reason we have something called the Federal Communications Commission. One of the reasons it was created was in order to protect the American airwaves (which we own by the way) from dangerous propaganda and misinformation. FOX is responsible for the deaths of untold thousands of people due to the lies that they spread regarding the importance of receiving the COVID vaccine. Most of those folks relied on FOX Noise for their news and information. When FOX shows up to renew their license to broadcast, it should be denied them. Responsible cable TV companies across the land should refuse to carry FOX. This is what is called "a no-brainer", folks.
FOX News has been detrimental to public discourse since it was founded a quarter of a century ago. Those were the good old days. They've now become a danger to the lives and the public health of all Americans foolish enough to take them seriously. For the good of the American people, it needs to be completely dismantled and abolished. Advertisers who fund it should be boycotted. This is a longshot, I know, but it is not-at-all beyond the scope of possibility. Every news entity is protected by the First Amendment, but they all have a responsibility to keep the public informed, Rupert Murdoch's media company long ago discarded that responsibility.
"This instrument [Television] can teach, it can illuminate, yes, it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is nothing more than wires and lights in a box."
Edward R. Murrow, 1958.
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| Murrow |
Murrow died nearly fifty-seven years ago, but the man was prescient in many ways. One of his biggest fears was that television news would become what FOX News undeniably is. A propaganda arm for any political ideology. That in itself is not necessarily a completely bad thing. After all, MSNBC leans notably to the left. But FOX Noise is something else all together: Lights and wires in a box. Not to mention a serious danger to our democracy and the public well being. It needs to disappear forever.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED LISTENING:
Here is a link to listen to Murrow's October 1958 speech in its entirety:
The man was a prophet.
63 Comments:
If we are going to abolishing the 1st Amendment let's not stop with abolishing Fox news, lets abolish Tom's blog, The Rant.
Why Is The Left Suddenly Worried About The End Of Democracy?
It is quite simple. The Left expects to lose power over the next two years – both because of the way it gained and used it, and because of its radical, top-down agendas that never had any public support.
Joe Biden’s negatives run between 50 and 57 percent – in Donald Trump’s own former underwater territory.
Less than a third of the country wants Biden to run for reelection. In many head-to-head polls, Trump now defeats Biden.
In other words, leftist elites are terrified that democracy will work too robustly.
After the Russian collusion hoax, two impeachments, the Hunter Biden laptop stories, the staged melodramas of the Kavanaugh hearings, the Jussie Smollett con, the Covington kids smear and the Rittenhouse trial race frenzy, the people are not just worn out by leftist hysterias, but they also weary of how the Left gains power and administers it.
If Joe Biden were polling at 70 percent approval, and his policies at 60 percent, the current doomsayers would be reassuring us of the “health of the system.”
They are fearful and angry not because democracy doesn’t work, but because it does despite their own media and political efforts to warp it.
When a party is hijacked by radicals and uses almost any means necessary to gain and use power for agendas that few Americans support, then average voters express their disapproval.
That reality apparently terrifies an elite. It then claims any system that allows the people to vote against the Left is not people power at all.
https://dailycaller.com/2021/12/16/victor-davis-hanson-why-left-worried-end-democracy/
Regurgitating Parrot Vern can't even think up his own lies again. (At least he linked to his radical Right source.)
"It is quite simple. The Left expects to lose power over the next two years – both because of the way it gained and used it, and because of its radical, top-down agendas that never had any public support."
We can hear the dog whistle clearly.
"...The way it gained (power)" is all about pushing Trump's Big Lie.
"...radical, top-down agendas that never had any public support" is an outright lie.
Poll after poll shows majority approval for Biden's agenda. His infrastructure law has majority support. His negative popularity increased by the obsessive media coverage of a terrorist attack in Afghanistan that he could not have prevented.
"...Leftist elites are terrified that democracy will work too robustly."
Another lie. It is the opposite. The radical Right is at war with democracy and equality, through targeted voter suppression, and disenfranchising minorities' fair representation by gerrymandering.
They can't win by fair elections so they are corrupting the system by putting radical Right partisans in control of elections. They are seizing the power to overturn the will of the American people.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/new-polls-suggest-broad-support-democrats-voting-rights-bills-n1277837
"Polls suggest broad support for Democrats' voting rights bills
A majority of voters surveyed said they support passing such legislation without a filibuster-proof majority.
A majority of voters in seven states support elements of Democrats' voting legislation and passing such legislation without a filibuster-proof majority, according to a series of new state-level surveys.
The voting rights group Fair Fight commissioned surveys with Public Policy Polling, which does polling for progressive groups, in Alaska, Arizona, Maine, Montana, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Fifty-four percent to 64 percent of voters surveyed in each state support the idea of senators passing voting bills along a simple majority — not the 60 votes currently required by Senate filibuster rules.
The survey also suggested that voters in the seven states support preventing polling site closures in rural and urban areas, stopping partisan gerrymandering, and reducing long lines at the polls — all things the For the People Act aims to accomplish.
Republicans oppose it because it would roll back the voter suppression and gerrymandering they need for minority rule.
For the first time in the U.S. free speech does not exist any more. On Common Dreams, a Liberal site I read they say Anti Vaxxers Not Welcome. They delete comments and links as soon as you post them.
Even the KKK had and still has the right to spread their views and hold public meetings. If only some people have free speech then the whole concept is destroyed.
I am not anti vaccine but these shots are totally different from real vaccines. When I was 6 I received the Polio vaccine, a weakened virus that the body can recognize and kill on sight.
These work differently and have multiple negative side effects. These side effects will accumulate over time and the more shots you have the faster they will build up.
For the first time Fox news is on the right side of history, I never thought I would say that !
Here is the inventor of the Covid vaccines speaking truth, he is censored by many even though his credibility is indisputable.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/12/16/scientific-journal-censorship.aspx?ui=3bb64f0b99eeb3c8bef290402359d1b29ff808dd3148f5b6fc10ba7a92d8f2af&sd=20110604&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20211216&mid=DM1067600&rid=1351900109
Woody,
"For the first time in the U.S. free speech does not exist any more."
This isn't true. Private sites can edit anything they want. Always have. THEY have rights too. It's fair to criticize them, It's YOUR right that you still have.
No government agency is silencing you.
I agree the big money operators and Pharma are not advocates for our best interests.
The first thing to understand is NO drug is perfectly safe. There is no magic potion that will prevent covid infection, but some can mitigate it.
The unvaccinated are the great majority of covid deaths. Just a fact.
I wish there could be honest and informed discussion on the alternative treatments for Covid, but everyone has their own economic interests. Both sides.
There are still very legitimate concerns about ivermectin.
https://www.menshealth.com/health/a38281370/pierre-kory-ivermectin-catches-covid/
The Doctor Who Called Ivermectin a 'Wonder Drug' Caught Covid
Dr. Pierre Kory, a critical care doctor based in Wisconsin, claimed to take the drug weekly last December during a U.S. Senate hearing. Eight months later, he contracted Covid-19, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported on Wednesday. Kory has not publicly stated if he is vaccinated against the disease.
Kory has testified twice to the U.S. Senate in support of ivermectin, stating that it is a "wonder drug" with "miraculous effectiveness" against COVID-19. The Journal Sentinel reports that he has since doubled down on taking the drug as treatment.
As of October 2021, there have been 1,810 reported cases of ivermectin poisoning across the country, compared to 499 within the first 10 months of 2019, reports the Journal Sentinel.
Let's be clear about Malone's study of Celecoxib and High Dose Famotidine on 25 patients.
It is NOT intended to replace other treatments. Yet this is what people are doing.
Adjuvant therapy, also known as adjunct therapy, adjuvant care, or augmentation therapy, is therapy that is given in addition to the primary or initial therapy to maximize its effectiveness.
The public generally don't dig this far into studies and can easily be misled and confused by all the controversies. That is FOX(R)'s specialty.
And Mercola repeats one of Malone's key points, "Recovered, natural immunity is equal to, or better than, the jab."
Up to a point, he is correct, but in the long term everyone would go back to being vulnerable.
Also Malone states:
Once again I feel it necessary to make a clear and unambiguous statement. The data strongly indicate that the experimental genetic vaccines, including the mRNA and recombinant adenoviral vaccines, have saved lives. Many lives.
But it is also increasingly clear that there are some risks associated with these vaccines.
Various governments have attempted to deny that this is the case.
https://bestuur.midden-groningen.nl/Vergaderingen/Raadsvergadering/2021/08-juli/19:30/02-1-bijlage-Statement-Robert-Malone-21-June-2021-1.pdf
I'm just saying, beware of easy answers to complex problems. Life is full of risks. We have to decide which are the greater and lesser ones.
This is why I am vaccinated.
Dave, you are one of the best debaters I have come across in 25 years, a very worthy opponent.
The overdoses of Ivermectin must be because the easiest way to buy it is as a horse medicine and people do not know how big of a dose a 180 pound person would need. There are very few side effects if given in the proper dose.
I am reading stories that the vaccinated are getting Covid more than the unvaccinated in given areas. So far the vaccines do not stop people from getting Covid, spreading Covid and becomes ineffective within months.
If all the social media sites and websites and forums stop you from bringing up an alternative opinion then free speech is very limited. When the corporation's do the governments bidding then we are heading into Favism.
Dave, I am in the control group and I plan to stay there. There is talk of extreme penalties for people who do not take the shots and it is happening in other countries already.
It is a race against time weather the tide will turn with these mandates.
Woody,
Thank you. I see this is a more discussion than debate. (A debatable proposition?)
I was on my high school debate team. Debate is a formalized argument on a specific proposition. Since we agree on many points, this is more like discussion.
Here are the steps to debate argumentation that I endeavor to maintain: These are also important to rational good faith discussion.)
ARGUMENTATION MSPDP students are taught a simple but highly effective argumentation model – A--‐R--‐E--‐S--‐R. Superior debaters use this technique to establish their team position and give them a relative advantage in a debate.
The first 3 steps create an argument – A--¬R--¬E.
Assertion – an unsupported claim or opinion, usually brief and clear for easy note taking
Reasoning – the logical support for an assertion, the explanation or justification for it
Evidence – the empirical information that verifies the reasoning, evidence includes generalizable statistical information and research reports (e.g., hundreds of thousands of Americans are made ill or die annually from tobacco products), specific statistical information and research reports (e.g., According to the NOAA National Climatic and Data Center 2013 Global Analysis, that year was the warmest since record--¬keeping began in 1880), historical examples, contemporary examples, anecdotes (representative or typical ones), expert testimony, and hypothetical scenarios based on well--¬established facts. Students add to the importance of an argument with the next step .
S. Significance – Qualitative significance – the degree of change or importance of an issue in an individual case; Quantitative significance – the number of cases (e.g., Qual/Quant -¬¬ specific privacy loss that genuinely matters and affects hundreds of thousands of people) Students conclude an argument with the final step.
R. Result – What is the result of using the argument in a debate? Does it prove the proposition team’s case? Does it undermine the case? How does the argument help the judge decide the outcome of the debate?
~~~
Most people think debating is just disagreement. No, it requires evidence-based and reasonable arguments. As we've seen demonstrated by almost all of the radical Right, and by some on the Left, this model is often abandoned.
It is also true that governments doing the bidding of corporations is also fascism. Corporate controlled governments are the antithesis of a democratic republic. It's a dangerous partnership. The Eternal Golden Rule. Those with the most gold, rule.
WOW, who knew that Tom watched FOX News!!
Good thing Covid didn't kill him.
FOX News quoted Biden saying he was going to stop Covid during the campaign, was FOX lying or Biden?
See you in NOV Dave. We will see then who was lying.
"Polls suggest broad support for Democrats' voting rights bills while at the same time some Democrat cites are allowing non citizens to vote...connect the dots.
Fox has no lock on covid vaccine misinformation. We are a year into vaccination with 3/4 of the adult population, and significant portion of kids (needlessly, since it turns out they are not protecting granny, and the risk of being killed from covid in that age group may have been less than the risk of being killed by the vaccine [.0022% per shot according to CDC] * (2 + NumBoosters)) vaccinated. In March the CDC estimated that 33% of the population already has had covid, so by now it is probably ~50% - and yet covid is running rampant.
Ask whenever the opportunity presents itself when you hear of a person getting covid, 'Have you been vaccinated'?
The answer at the moment is nearly always yes.
If they are in the hospital, 'Have you been vaccinated'?
You will not get the truth from the television, internet or scrolling a smartphone and obviously not the capitalists. Speak to people.
The vaccine is not working - or at least not the ones that are being pushed by every media network.
There is a upside however if you happen to be a stockholder for a pharmaceutical company. Now think what industry is the largest advertiser on television?
Time for your booster!
Dave, that was interesting information about debating.
As time goes on there will more facts about Covid and the vaccines and there will be a general consensus on what is real or not. It took 20 years but 70% of the people believe 9/11 was an inside job. Most people believe Kennedy was killed by a government conspiracy. It took 30 years to find out Viet Nam was started by a false flag and maybe 10 years for for people to believe the Iraq war was was not about WMD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOt-ZEqdIYM
Two of my favorite political commentators on You Tube.
War is coming closer all the time and it is all the U.S. fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbu6AII10Pk
Worth watching.
Now THIS would be debate:
John: The vaccine is not working - or at least not the ones that are being pushed by every media network.
Dr. Malone: Once again I feel it necessary to make a clear and unambiguous statement. The data strongly indicate that the experimental genetic vaccines, including the mRNA and recombinant adenoviral vaccines, have saved lives. Many lives.
Here is where mutual definition of terms is important to a debate. What does "working" and "not working" mean?
If John means a vaccination is not working if it does not save every life, has negative side effects, and does not stop transmission, he would be correct.
But if saving lives means the vaccination is working, then Malone is correct.
In March a year into the pandemic, about 350 under 18 in the US had been killed by covid. Now, 9 months later (and since portions of that age group have been getting vaccinated), the number has tripled to 1000. Additionally, other children have been killed or disabled by the vaccine.
The only rational (although I don't agree with it) that could advanced vaccinating that age group is to protect other people. Since the vaccine does not prevent the spread, that justification is bankrupt.
So regarding young people, can we agree that Dr Malone's unambiguous statement is somewhat wrong?
I understand there are high risk kids with underlying health concerns where the benefits outweigh the risks. A science and medical need based policy would make total sense - but such notions get trumped in corporate boardrooms.
John,
The argumentation model for debate would include sourced evidence on the cases with children.
The logical question regarding the statistics would be, "Wouldn't the re-opening of schools be the reason child covid cases are on the rise?"
I would be interested in which studies support your assertion.
I'm just spitballing here, but the overwhelming abandonment of mask wearing would seem to be a significant factor too.
Bidenflation Translates to $3,500 in Added Costs for Average Family in 2021
Thanks to inflation, the average American household is much worse-off financially in 2021 than in recent years.
In fact, according to a new report from the Penn-Wharton Budget Model, “inflation in 2021 will require the average U.S. household to spend around $3,500 more in 2021 to achieve the same level of consumption of goods and services as in recent previous years (2019 or 2020).”
In other words, due to inflation, Americans’ standard of living is rapidly plummeting.
Biden's gift.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vern blames Biden for inflation that is global.
How is he DOING it, Vern?
Crickets.
Just hate.
Are these Vern's grandkids? Using his standards, I blame Vern for this:
Two Texas teens are facing hate crime charges after they allegedly dressed as Ku Klux Klan members for Halloween — then attacked at least one Black child with a Taser.
https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/teens-indicted-on-charges-related-to-reported-attack-on-woodsboro-black-teen
Two 17-year-olds were indicted Thursday on charges of engaging in organized criminal activity and tampering with evidence as the result of a reported attack on a Black teen in Woodsboro over Halloween weekend.
Noel Garcia Jr. and Rance Bolcik were indicted in Refugio County, and could face from two to 10 years if found guilty of the charges. Each is being held on $10,000 bond.
Both charges are third-degree felonies, and the indictments also include a hate crime enhancement.
Ruh, Roh!
Vern remains silent on whether or not Trump was defeated by Biden in a fair election. His silence is damning. Is he such a coward that he can neither admit the truth, nor support the Big Lie?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/dominion-defamation-suit-against-fox-gets-go-ahead-from-judge
Dominion Defamation Suit Against Fox Can Move Forward
Fox News probably had enough information after the 2020 presidential election to know a conspiracy theory claiming Dominion Voting Systems Inc. rigged the contest was false, a judge said in denying the network’s request to dismiss a defamation lawsuit.
Delaware state court Judge Eric M. Davis on Thursday ruled Dominion had presented enough factual allegations against Fox for the $1.6 billion lawsuit to proceed.
“Fox possessed countervailing evidence of election fraud from the Department of Justice, election experts, and Dominion at the time it had been making its statements,” the judge wrote. “The fact that, despite this evidence, Fox continued to publish its allegations against Dominion, suggests Fox knew the allegations were probably false.”
Denver-based Dominion, which provided voting technology in more than two dozen states, has long alleged that Fox and other conservative news outlets trashed its reputation by falsely placing the company at the center of a vast conspiracy to flip votes away from former President Donald Trump. Trump’s false claims of vote rigging ultimately helped trigger the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol by a mob of his supporters.
Davis noted that Fox continued to give air to the conspiracy without challenging it with known details debunking the lies.
“When Fox guests spread or reiterated disinformation about Dominion, Fox did not use the information Dominion provided to correct its guests or to reorient its viewers,” Davis wrote. “Instead, Fox and its personnel pressed their view that considerable evidence connected Dominion to an illegal election fraud conspiracy.”
FOX(R) is the propaganda wing of the enemies of democracy and truth.
Nixon infamously told aides, “I want you all to stonewall it, let them plead the Fifth Amendment, cover up, or anything else.”
Trump said as a candidate in 2016, “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment? The mob takes the Fifth.”
Roger Stone pleaded the Fifth Amendment to the January 6th Committee.
The mob takes the Fifth.
Vern is also silent on the Big Lie and 1/6 coup.
Will Vern pitch in?
Insurrectionist liar Alex Jones is in a bind, struggling to make ends meet due to his court loss to the Sandy Hook victims. He's begging for money to save infoWars.
https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/where-do-you-stand/
From the author of The Long Emergency, James Kunstler. He write two columns a week with up to
1500 comments each!
What a contrast with Tom who praised Dr. Anthony Fauci.
And now Trump spewed this:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-says-jewish-people-had-absolute-control-of-congress-in-antisemitic-interview-with-barak-ravid?source=twitter&via=desktop
Trump veered into antisemitism in a recent interview with journalist Barak Ravid. “It used to be that Israel had absolute power over Congress,” he said. “Today, I think it’s the exact opposite, and I think Obama and Biden did that.”
The comments were in relation to how Jewish people feel toward Israel, and according to Trump, they don’t seem to care about the Jewish nation.
“The Jewish people, in the United States, either don’t like Israel or don’t care about Israel,” he said before fully blowing the dog-whistle. “I mean, you look at The New York Times—The New York Times hates Israel, hates it. And they’re Jewish people that run The New York Times. I mean, the Sulzberger family.”
All because most Jews didn't vote for him...
Woody,
Thanks for the link.
Again you can color me skeptical.
First let's understand why Fauci wouldn't promote unapproved medicines and treatments. He would've been crushed by lawsuits by families of those who didn't recover.
“In his quest to eliminate the control group for his experiment in hazardous mRNA injections, Dr. Anthony Fauci reiterated his warning that the nation faces “a crisis of the unvaccinated.” Omicron is upon us, he told a US Chamber of Commerce meet-up this week, and the hospitals will soon be overwhelmed by the unvaxxed.”
He can spout all the cynicism he wants, but the crisis has already overwhelmed hospitals in Lansing MI where all the fatalities are the unvaccinated.
Covid-19 patients at this hospital are dying 'at a rate we've never seen die before' -- and it's taking a toll on health care workers
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/us/hospital-covid-19-deaths-michigan/index.html
Since Kunstler has no medical degree, I’d like to see his documented evidence supporting these claims.
”In fact, Dr. Fauci is likely responsible for a preponderance of the total 802,000 US Covid deaths — putting aside the number of people who actually died from highway accidents, cancer, diabetes, old age, and other causes, but were listed as covid deaths by hospital accounting personnel avid for federal subsidy cash.
It’s Dr. Fauci who is responsible for the emergency use authorization on the mRNA “vaccines” that may have killed hundreds of thousands more Americans — based on the CDC’s VAERS system...”
Yes, there it is again, that unreliable ubiquitous VAERS system... Any idiot can submit any lie or misunderstood case to that base. Just a fact.
That alone indicates a weak case, unsupported by verifiable documented evidence.
In case you conclude I’m a true believer in Fauci, let me be clear that I was horrified when he didn’t immediately recommend wearing masks. I get it. Front line care workers may have had difficulty finding them in the rush, (and they did) but there should have been a nationwide push to manufacture and distribute them from the beginning.
Now millions of covidiots think masks do not mitigate the spread of pathogens. Would they let a surgeon operate on them without a mask? Just sayin’. I hear little outcry or condemnation of this anymore, compared to the flood of antivaxx rants.
Political? Hell, yes. It went from the "Trump vaccine" to the "Holocaust Needle" since the election.
Even Trump FINALLY recommended vaccinations at a rally last summer. The crowd reacted with silence.
He damn well wishes he could have had it, before he caught covid and spread it by not wearing a mask.
Too much disinformation only contributes to the mass madness.
Nobody can seem to say, "I just don't know for sure" anymore.
Everyone is an expert.
Dave, thanks for reading the article, I just wanted you to check out what the other side believes and Kunstler is a very good writer.
I actually believe the VAERS sites are fairly accurate, I would think not even 1 in 100 has heard of it and I read that it is very difficult and laborious to use the site.
Just as there is very little voter fraud, I do not believe thousands of people would take the time to create a fraudulent listing that that nobody reads anyway.
The second You Tube link is Christmas related, not political.
Woody,
The problem with VAERS is that it is easily corruptible and not verifiable. Bad combination. It is not scientifically valid, medically documented and sourced information.
Again, vaccinations are so politicized, it's not difficult to assume there is deliberate misinformation dumped there. The fact it is so widely assumed to reflect actual medical science is the reason why.
It's the same as Trump saying, "I'm hearing..." or "People are saying...", and "The election was stolen by massive voter fraud by illegals", if he took the time to post it online.
Why not wait for, or seek out, legitimate, well sourced documentation instead of relying on
VAERS?
It's like trusting FOX News for election results. Agenda alert.
>Dave Dubya said...
>John,
>The argumentation model for debate would include sourced evidence on the cases with children.
>The logical question regarding the statistics would be, "Wouldn't the re-opening of schools be the >reason child covid cases are on the rise?"
>I would be interested in which studies support your assertion.
No problem Dave. Check out these links:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 459 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through November 29, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 10,128 reports of death (0.0022%)
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
CDC estimate of 33% previously infected is from March 31, 2021
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics
The 1000 children deaths are from current data on the above link.
I wrote this passage around the end of October:
The 763 deaths among children value was obtained from the CDC Demographics site. Scroll down to ‘Deaths by Age Group:’, click on ‘Download’ then select ‘Data’, then sum the relevant values.
The 350 deaths was originally from my recollection, however I used the wayback-machine to lookup CDC demographic data to confirmed these number. You have to dig around a bit because the CDC changed their webpage format. Oh and the actual total number of deaths the CDC reported of children under 18 years of age on 3/3/21 was 267.
So by all means, verify these numbers and tell the world what you think about them.
"legitimate, well sourced documentation" Since I view the entire Covid issue as one big conspiracy run by the government, medical industry and aided by the MSM the only real information will come from alternative sources.
You view the conspiracy lies with the alternative sources, that is what makes this a fascinating conflict of ideas.
The saying "When there is smoke there is fire" applies here also. It will get harder to dismiss so many stories from so many places as all being made up.
One thing is certain, when the largest and wealthiest industry on the planet is making the most money it ever has, doing immoral things to keep the money flowing is believable.
Oh yea, since you brought up debate, my position is there are some fucked up sociopaths running covid policies in this country - particularly the push to vaccinate children.
If anyone wants to argue about that, I will not bother to respond, as I don't think I can articulate it better the bolded text.
I have tried to dissuade people from taking the shots, especially not giving it to kids but not a single person listened to me. I cannot push too hard as I would lose my carpentry business so I hardly try anymore.
Dave, this is a valid question, and I forgot to address it,
>The logical question regarding the statistics would be, "Wouldn't the re-opening of schools be the reason child covid cases are on the rise?"
There is no reason to think kids has a significantly lower exposure to covid (ie the 33%). Rather than expand on it, it might be beneficial to multiply:
75 million (kids) * .000022 (notice, two more zeros) * the number of doses a kid is likely to get
I think this is one of those cases where the cure is worse than the disease...
Woody,
I recall reading that while vaccinated people can contract and spread covid, both the severity and infection transmission period are greatly reduced.
I don't support forced covid vaccination for children.
And yes real information will come from alternative sources, just as dangerous misinformation does. It's not easy sorting it all out. Politics and profit are behind a lot of it.
I can admit if I was infected and had no access to good health care, I'd definitely opt for ivermectin, famotidine, HCQ, Azithromycin, etc. In fact I take Vitamin D and famotidine daily.
While I don't quite share your "Grand Conspiracy" theory, suspicions should be examined and questions asked. The country is far too much under the sway of the the corporate Pharma/Insurance/Medical/Military/Industrial/Media/Prison/Congress complex. Constitutional regulation of commerce is being flipped to corporate regulated government.
And we circle back to neo-fascism.
John,
Thanks for the links.
"VAERS received 10,128 reports of death" does NOT indicate that many lethal reactions to the vaccination.
"VAERS accepts reports of any adverse event following vaccination.
Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."
At least they claim, "CDC and FDA continue to review reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination and update information as it becomes available."
Am I the only one who actually knows someone who died from covid? Another friend has yet to completely regain his senses of taste and smell a year after being infected.
The danger and lethality are very real. Those with co-morbidities are fools to not get vaccinated, Grand Conspiracy or not.
You're right that in too many cases the cure is worse than the disease. As we know, no drug is perfectly safe. Hell, I'm allergic to penicillin and hops in beer make me sneeze.
I've been forced to acquire a taste for wee drams of scotch. Another deadly medicine, if not for sensible moderation.
It's not debatable that some of the most deadly diseases know to man were wiped out by vaccines developed by medicine. It's part of the "miracle of medical science". The SLIGHT come back by some of those diseases is due to parents refusing to have their children vaccinated. Over 90% of those still catching covid, or a strain of covid are the un-vaccinated. If your religion denies medical science, it denies one of God's gifts to the world. I see no difference in letting people have a choice in taking a vaccine and letting women have a choice in having an abortion. Both are asking for the right to do with ones body as one wishes.
This is from European medical agencies listing deaths and adverse reactions to the vaccines.
https://vaccineimpact.com/2021/32649-deaths-3003296-injuries-following-covid-shots-in-european-database-of-adverse-reactions-as-young-previously-healthy-people-continue-to-die/
pianoguy24
Kamala admits administration has not been victorious in fighting pandemic, “Didn’t see variants coming”.
Yet they’ll still claim President Trump didn’t do enough.
Trump didn’t have the vaccine at the beginning of this.
Biden did.
Trump HOPED it would be done by Easter.
Biden claimed 100 days of masking would eliminate it.
Trump was called a xenophobe.
Biden was lauded for the same thing.
Trump was caught unaware of it and had to learn as it came.
Biden had all of the previous information learned.
And yet Biden has more deaths despite all he had at his disposal.
Pianoguy,
You are misinformed
Trump was NOT "caught unaware". He lied about covid during the critical first months.
Here's what your radical Right media won't tell you:
On February 7 Trump called veteran journalist Bob Woodward to tell him there was a deadly new virus spreading around the world. It was airborne, he explained, and was five times “more deadly than even your strenuous flus.” “This is deadly stuff,” he said. He would not share that information with other Americans, though, continuing to play down the virus in hopes of protecting the economy.
"Biden has more deaths despite all he had at his disposal."
Here's another fact showing you are misinformed:
According to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Biden has presided over about 353,000 deaths in a little over 10 months, compared to about 425,000 for Trump in his final 10-plus months.
More deaths are now due to the idiots who went from calling it the "Trump vaccine" to "Holocaust needles". All because Biden beat Trump fair and square.
THEY are the ones dropping like flies. Maybe you're next.
Woody,
Interesting site.
I would caution your reliance on "Vaccine Impact" for reliable information.
I always dig deeper into any unfamiliar linked source.
"Vaccine Impact" has quite a reputation for conspiracy mongering and absurdities.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vaccine-impact/
"Overall, we rate Vaccine Impact a Quackery-level pseudoscience website for the promotion of anti-vaccination propaganda."
Putting that critique aside, look at these other articles linked at “Vaccine Impact”.
"Insider Exposes Freemasonry as the World’s Oldest Secret Religion and the Luciferian Plans for The New World Order"
"The Seal and Mark of God is Far More Important than the “Mark of the Beast” – Are You Prepared for What’s Coming?"
"The Satanic Roots to Modern Medicine – The Mark of the Beast?"
.....Wow. But it's your prerogative to trust them.
I'd say even the inconsistent CDC would be far more reliable.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dave, you are making several assumptions here which are incorrect. I never endorsed this site and I never read anything there beyond the article in question. Even the most wacky site can have truthful articles.
You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I did a search on Duckduckgo with the phrase European Database of Adverse Reactions and found the same article on what it seemed to be 100 different sites. By dismissing a very credible article because where it published does not work because you would have to dismiss 100 more sites which is not logical.
I can see no reason for you not to accept the facts coming from European governmental sources.
1:30 PM
I do not think that media fact check site is the be all and end all to truth on the internet.
Mozart loves that site as he can use it to dismiss all the links I post but that does not work when I can post the same articles in 100 other places. Personal I think it is a nonsense site.
pianoguy24
Covid-19 Deaths under Biden Surpass Deaths during Trump Administration
Strange how the media is almost totally silent about the fact that more than 400,000 Americans have died of Covid-19 since Joe Biden was sworn in January 20, with more than 1,000 deaths a day adding to the toll. As you’ll recall, there was a full-blown national day of mourning on January 19, Trump’s last full day in office, which was the day deaths hit 400,000. The New York Times has the current death count at 801,037. It seems likely that at least another 100,000 will die as the winter storms in. It’s not hard to imagine that there could be twice as many Covid deaths on Biden’s watch as on Trump’s. But what was Trump’s fault under Trump is America’s fault under Biden.
It turns out that Joe Biden’s Secret Plan to End Covid worked about as well as when he promised to “cure cancer.”(https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/582388-biden-promised-to-eradicate-cancer-where-is-he-now)
Thanks in pertinent part to Trump’s Operation Warp Speed, Biden was able to take office with the vaccination effort already well underway, and he declared victory over the virus in an Independence Day speech. At that point, 200,000 Americans had died of Covid on his watch, and since then, another 200,000 have perished.
Remember all the pundits and Democrats proclaiming that Trump had “killed” 400,000 Americans? Will Chris Hayes and Kamala Harris blame Biden for “mass slaughter” now that he has presided over even more deaths? Or even the 200,000 since Biden’s “Mission Accomplished” speech?
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/covid-19-deaths-under-biden-surpass-deaths-during-trump-administration/
Woody,
I'm not disagreeing that there are negative side effects from vaccination. To deny it saves exponentially more lives than it destroys is out of the bounds of reality and unsupported by documented evidence.
I'm glad you agree it is NOT a credible source. And their source is as unscientific as VAERS.
Media fact check and politifact are unquestionably more reliable than that nutjob site.
Sources and context. Sources and context.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/31/blog-posting/european-database-does-not-prove-covid-19-vaccines/
European database does not prove the COVID-19 vaccines are lethal
The post shares information from a European database of reported adverse effects after COVID-19 vaccination. The agency maintaining the database stresses the information it provides is preliminary and requires additional research before making conclusions.
The vaccines have been administered to millions of people across the globe and health agencies have vouched for their safety and effectiveness.
See the sources for this fact-check
Our ruling
A post claimed that in Europe "3,964 people have died from adverse drug reactions for COVID-19 ‘vaccines’ – 162,610 injuries."
That’s a misrepresentation of information in an European database that tracks suspected reactions to medicines, including COVID-19 vaccines. The agency behind the database cautions that the information is only of suspected side effects, and that it should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine caused the effects or that it’s unsafe.
A detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data is needed before drawing conclusions, the agency said.
The COVID-19 vaccines have been administered to millions of people across Europe and the United States, and health agencies have vouched for their safety and effectiveness. We found no definitive proof that a COVID-19 vaccine caused someone’s death.
We rate this claim False.
~~~
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/11/bill-zedler/bill-zedler-insists-program-doesnt-collect-wide-ra/
In a July 2005 web post, Dr. James R. Laidler wrote: "The chief problem with the VAERS data is that reports can be entered by anyone and are not routinely verified. To demonstrate this, a few years ago I entered a report that an influenza vaccine had turned me into The Hulk. The report was accepted and entered into the database.
pianoguy24
Harris was asked in a Sept. 6, 2020, interview whether she would take a vaccine if it was approved before the election. She replied:
"Well, I think that's going to be an issue for all of us. I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about. I will not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach. I — no, I will not take his word."
Harris was asked in an Oct. 7, 2020, vice presidential debate if she would take a vaccine if the Trump administration approved one. Referring to the leading government epidemiologist Dr. Anthony Fauci, she said:
"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it."
Trump-deranged Democrats endanger lives by blocking vaccines
https://nypost.com/2020/11/09/trump-deranged-democrats-endanger-lives-by-blocking-vaccines/
pianoguy 24
ANALYSIS: The Left Said It Wouldn’t Trust The Trump Vaccine. Now They’re Shaming The Unvaccinated.
Public figures on the left spent months saying that they wouldn’t trust a vaccine produced under former President Donald Trump’s administration, but are now shaming people who say they won’t take the vaccine.
MSNBC host Joy Reid said multiple times that she would not trust a vaccine made by Trump or his “politicized” Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
In one tweet she mocked “Operation Warp Speed,” the effort that the Trump administration made in order to get a vaccine made as fast as possible.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-the-left-said-it-wouldnt-trust-the-trump-vaccine-now-theyre-shaming-the-unvaccinated/ar-AAMLI1k
https://www.adrreports.eu/en/background.html
Dave, if you read about all the government agencies, medical groups and pharma logical agencies that have contributed to the data bases of harm to the public going back 12 years you will see this is not a political site.
It is a very scientific consortium to publish unbiased medical information. For Politifact to dismiss every thing they say and do for the last decade as nonsense makes them look like fools to me.
This is the conspiracy I am talking about, Politifact is pushing the vaccine agenda against all reason and facts.
To be clear, the Vaccine Impact site is wacky but not the article reporting the side effects of the vaccines.
I do not see how you can find a more credible site than the European data site. Since you agree that the vaccines are not harm free I do not understand you accepting Politifact"s assertion that that they are harm free.
Can you believe there are idiots who still credit Trump for the vaccine, praise him for it, and yet now that he's out of office, they refuse it?
News for pianoguy:
There is NO SUCH THING as the "Trump vaccine". Sorry, MAGAts, all he did was allow regulatory steps to be bypassed in the development process in the US.
The Pfizer vaccine was developed in GERMANY.
Trump had NOTHING to do with it. I'm sure these facts will be ignored, as they do not conform to cult indoctrination.
Woody,
Maybe you're not as cynical and skeptical as I am. Conspiracy theories prey on those who don't examine evidence or reject it without consideration. Better to admit we don't have the answer than fall for agenda-driven BS.
This is the "Satanic New World Order" fodder for places like Vaccine Impact.
"It is bullshit and it is not good for you." -George Carlin
Would you claim a wacky site like Vaccine Impact has no agenda that would be served by spreading misinformation?
Ask yourself why that would be so.
Data is only data. It is raw data at that. Anti-vaxx interests have their own agenda and like govt. agencies, are guilty of misrepresentation, and in such cases, MORE so.
Why can't you be skeptical of arguments and agendas on both sides?
"I do not understand you accepting Politifact's assertion that that they are harm free."
I did not make that claim.
Read it again. That was NOT Politfact's assertion either. They attributed it to the agency cited by Vaccine Impact.
"The agency behind the database cautions that the information is only of suspected side effects, and that it should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine caused the effects or that it’s unsafe."
Why do you suppose Vaccine Impact omitted some critical points from their linked source?
See for yourself, direct from the agency:
https://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html
The information on this website relates to suspected side effects , i.e. medical events that have been observed following the use of a medicine, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine.
Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine.
If this doesn't clarify it for you, I can't help you.
The bottom line is vaccinations save lives. Far more lives than it destroys. This is the reality I operate from.
You have no proof this is not true, just a "Grand Conspiracy" theory. Good luck with that.
Your body, your choice. My body, my choice.
Feel free to seek out all the quacks, crackpots and political agenda driven sources as you like, but beware of confirmation bias and gullibility. Something I try to remind myself of as well.
Thank you for the challenge and impetus to learn more.
Woody, it depends on your definition of "harm" and the percentage of people "harmed".
in the BIG PICTURE vaccines are a valuable weapon against viruses.
Millions are allergic to peanuts but I don;t see creamy Jiff going off the market anytime soon.
MY DOCTOR TELLS ME TO GET THE SHOT, I GET THE SHOT.
Period, end of story.
Sybil, we said we wouldn't trust TRUMP and any "cure" made from obsolete malaria drugs or horse dewormer.
Your own article says exactly that. VP Harris...
" I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about. I will not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach. I — no, I will not take his word."
"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely."
Funny how you claim one thing and then prove our points.
Funny also how the VAST majority against the vaccines are CONSERVATIVES, who praised "operation warp speed" and now say that vaccine is "poison".
Dave, I think we took this as far as we can for the moment and would like to move to a new topic. I have a big interest in international politics, our survival is at stake so I will see you on the next thread.
Mozart, I do not share your confidence in the medical industry. 500,000 people die a year from medical malpractice.
They will do what is best for their bottom line regardless of any negative health consequences you may incur.
I know with absolute certainty if I was not my own advocate I would have been one of those 500,000.
My, the piano guy is a DEEP thinker, isn't he?
Say, which is the "Trump Vaccine" anyway? And why is it the "Trump vaccine"?
Hint: Pfizer developed it in Germany.
Guess who are dropping like flies, now that they've gone from calling the "Trump vaccine" to "Biden's Holocaust Needles".
Enlighten us, piano guy.
Actually Woody, it's HALF that and the numbers include INFERIOR medical care, which is a direct result of the right's support of "for profit" healthcare.
However vacccines would not be included in those numbers.
I will continue to trust the person who went to medical school over some guy on a blog who would rather snort horse dewormer.
https://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/09000/A_New,_Evidence_based_Estimate_of_Patient_Harms.2.aspx
This site says over 400,000 deaths and up to 20 times that get harmed or injured.
Good luck with your next 6 booster shots.
Woody,
That information does not refer to covid shots.
Given that covid hospitalizations are highest among the unvaccinated, good luck with your hospital stay...
For an additional fear factor, look up nosocomial infections.
Dave, I never said it did, the article did not mention Covid.
I am trying to be polite with Mozart but if he throws out an insult I will throw one back.
Thanks for wishing me well.
Woody,
I misunderstood. I thought your booster shot reference was related to the link.
But do take care. I'm as afraid of hospitals as your are of the vaccine, or both.
As Americans decide to embrace anti-democratic authoritarianism, as covid runs rampant, and as the world slides into turmoil and chaos, I've learned we may as well enjoy the show.
I'm keeping a good bottle of single malt in reserve for when it all hits the fan.
Cheers.
As long as my DOCTOR tells me to get em, I'll keep getting the shoots.
PLease tell us all where I "insulted" you, other than to explain how you were wrong.
If I have a broken water pipe, I cal;l a plumber. If I need more outlets, I get an electrician. I trust what they tell me because that's what they do for a living. They have to be tested and certified.
WHen I need medical advice, I don't call some guy with a blog, who's sister knows a lady who's cousin got the shot and now she glows in the dark.
I listen to my DOCTOR.
The entire conservative movement since Reagan is to convince us NOT to rely our most trusted institutions. THen they take control of them and show us why.
But not ALL doctors lie. I've known mine for 20 years, got to keep her when the right claimed Obama forced us all to change. When she says get the shot I get it. I've had my booster. I go for my 2nd shingles shot right after Christmas.
It's nothing.
"I will continue to trust the person who went to medical school over some guy on a blog who would rather snort horse dewormer".
I assumed you were talking about me, if not you have my apologies.
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