Hillary Clinton For President
Early this morning, my cousin from Indiana, Margaret, sent me a link to an article that was posted on a website called, "Social Justice For All". The writer of the piece, Michael Hulshof-Schmidt,
describes himself as an enthusiastic, former supporter of Bernie Sanders.
"I have had to confront myself with the truth that I bought into a narrative about Hillary Clinton that has been produced, packaged, and perpetuated by mostly the GOP with the help of many democrats and independents."
I have to take gentle issue with that. It was a well-written essay and he made a very good argument why he feels that it is essential that Hillary Clinton be elected in November. My problem with the quote above is simply that, while his apprehension of Ms. Clinton might have been the result of right wing propaganda, mine certainly wasn't. I never, for a half a minute, fell for the GOP's Whitewater fiasco, or the "Travelgate" non-troversy; nor was I susceptible to the complete idiocy of the Benghazi hearings. My trepidation regarding Hillary Clinton (and my support for Senator Sanders) was based upon decades of close study. It has long been my belief that she is, at heart, a plutocrat, more beholden to the one percent than to the regular working men and women of this dysfunctional nation. I didn't come to that conclusion by listening to Rush Limbaugh. Maybe I will be proven wrong on this point. I really hope I am. Nonetheless I will be supporting her whole-heartedly. I'm even going to drag myself down to the local polling place to cast my ballot for her on Election Day. Given the current American political train-wreck, what choice have I in the matter? Seriously.
Let me repeat myself for the record: I've never been brainwashed by any political party. I'm just a wee bit more complicated than that. If I were that susceptible to propaganda, I would still be a Democrat.
I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here, ruining the junior prom for everyone by vomiting into the punch bowl. I really do hope that she is remembered as a great president. Eighty-four years ago, when Franklin Roosevelt was elected to the presidency, very few commentators were particularly enthused. Walter Lippman, the leading progressive columnist of the age, memorably said of him:
"Franklin Roosevelt is no crusader. He is no tribune of the people. He is no enemy of entrenched privilege. He is a pleasant man who, without any important qualifications for the office, would very much like to be president."
FDR's own cousin, Alice Longworth (Theodore's daughter) would contemptuously dismiss him as a "feather-duster". Both Mr. Lippmann and Mrs. Longworth would live to regret their words (or at least Walter would. Alice stuck to her guns until the very end). I'm hoping that in a few years time, I, too, will be eating a heaping, healthy dish of crow. We shall see.
An article in this week's Rolling Stone by Sean Wilentz, leaves me somewhat optimistic - albeit cautiously:
An article in this week's Rolling Stone by Sean Wilentz, leaves me somewhat optimistic - albeit cautiously:
"Hillary Clinton has already indicated what she would pursue in her first 100 days in office: launching her infrastructure program; investing in renewable energy; tightening regulation of health insurance and pharmaceutical companies; and expanding protection of voting rights. She has also said that she will nominate women for half of her cabinet positions. And not far behind these initiatives are several others, including immigration reform, and raising the minimum wage."
At least I'm not experiencing the kind of panic that I was feeling four years ago. At this point in the 2012 campaign, I was convinced that the Republicans would be able to take the day - legally or by fraudulent measures. After Obama's second debate with Mitt Romney, I thought it was all over. No such paranoia in 2016! With the exception of Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton has got to be the luckiest presidential candidate in American history. Winning the White House for her will be the equivalent of shooting a school of half-witted fish in a leaky barrel. The candidacy of Donald Trump is too good for the Democrats to be true. This sure has been one interesting political year, it really has.Not to worry: This Bernie Sanders supporter is going to stand by Hillary. As has been noted on this site previously, Dr. Jill Stein is a decent, brilliant woman who has all the qualifications to be president - and not a chance in hell of being elected to that office. Pardon my stubbornness on this point, but the sooner we progressives understand this, the better off we'll be.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Signing off tonight with this homage to Gene Wilder, who passed away on Sunday. I always thought this was the sweetest song....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ApySWpfJyc
He's safe in Heaven with Gilda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ApySWpfJyc
He's safe in Heaven with Gilda.
Pure imagination.
peace....
peace....
posted by Tom Degan @ 1:08 PM
36 comments
36 Comments:
Tom,
Have your decades of closely studying Hillary made you aware that she is a liar? Surely you know that others, and not just the GOP, have come to that same conclusion.
Tom Degan: "Pardon my stubbornness on this point, but the sooner we progressives understand this, the better off we'll be."
Please pardon my comment because I'm certain you'll find it offensive, nonetheless it needs to be said. Your support and endorsement of Hillary Clinton disqualifies you from being entitled to labeling yourself "progressive".
The Democratic Party of this age is neither "progressive" or "liberal" -- by any standard. As Dave Dubya mentioned in a previous post, at best the Democratic Party could be considered "conservative-lite".
Apparently the Democratic Party's full support of the prevailing corporatocracy, to the exclusion of true democratic values, hasn't resonated with you yet. I often wonder, Tom, what is it going to take?
So you admit she is a liar, and since others have lied, you're ok with voting for her?
I doubt you voted for GWB for his 1st term in office. So I won't believe your vote then had anything to do with a lie. It was based on your political stance/view point. As have been all your votes. I'm pretty sure you voted for Obama's 2nd term, after his lies about Obamacare were well known.
Just a reminder, GWB isn't running in this election so what does he have to do with voting now for a known liar? Do you think bringing GWB up excuses your vote for Hillary?
Just wanted to find out what your standards are. But since you refuse to correct a lie about Chuck made by JG, I already knew. I'm not surprised you would vote for a liar.
What worries me about her lies is how they make no sense-- like claiming she was under fire when she visited Afghanistan as a Senator. I mean obviously there are videos and photos. Sociopathic/pathological liars do this though. It's like how she lied about not having classified info on her emails. Not hard to find out it was a lie or when she only deleted emails relating to yoga and weddings and then used a scrubbing device to permanently erase these innocent missives. Or when she said she only did it to avoid having multiple devices except she had multiple devices. I don't like liars period but some at least use sense with it.
But is that worse than someone who says things that constantly turn out to be wrong or the opposite of what they'd earlier said because they didn't remember? That's where we are caught as voters-- between a rock and a hard place. My husband is leaning one way on this and I'm leaning the other.
Liars?
Mexico is sending murderers to America.
Obama is a foreign born Muslim.
Obama founded ISIS.
Hillary co-founded ISIS.
Trump knows more about ISIS than the generals.
Judges with Mexican ancestry cannot do their job.
No lies from Trump, amirite?
Tom Degan: "Pardon my stubbornness on this point, but the sooner we progressives understand this, the better off we'll be."
I certainly will not be better off with Clinton in the White House, and neither will you.
Tom, I'm guessing -- probably correctly -- that you took offense to my previous comment and that's the reason you're refusing to release it. My question for you is this: Without laughing too hard, how in the world can you self-describe yourself a progressive, while at the same time support one of the most corporatist Democratic presidential nominees ever?
You've said so yourself that you left the Democratic Party because it changed beyond recognition. Maybe it's time to put a little more thought into what you said, and more importantly, what you meant.
Sorry, Tom, either my eyes are fooling me, or you just released my comment while I was composing the second.
Cheers!...
You lost me as soon as you compared FDR to Clinton's political situation. There is no comparison.
In my comment on Hillary and sniper fire, I had gone by what I remembered... Since i have CRS, turns out it was the wrong country but the right events... kind of. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/22/donald-trump/trump-clinton-bosnia-sniper-story/ Good thing I am not running for President ;)
Note the drastic difference between Hillary's lies and Trump's.
Hers are generally defensive, and his are generally offensive, in every sense of the word.
Trump lies to promote hate, bigotry, racism, scapegoating, nationalism and his ego. No wonder David Duke and Klan say not voting for Trump is "treason to your heritage".
This is exactly what American fascism looks like.
No wonder Chuck flees from explaining the "truth" in Trump's fascist lies.
What the hell is it with Trump supporters that they can ignore all that hate and lies? Instead the embrace it all.
It is pure hatred of Hillary, racism, "white victimization", worship of wealth, and extreme gullibility.
Obviously Americans are duped into supporting liars over truth tellers like Bernie.
We get what we deserve.
So lying to avoid facing the consequences of your actions is a desirable character trait in a President, Dave Dubya??? I really don't get how you figure that. Lying in a friend, colleague, family member, or boss, means you can't thrust them. I might have to vote for her, based on the alternative, but excusing what she does, by not facing it squarely, seems a mistake and asking for more of it. Lefties turn every argument against her into an attack on someone else. Why not deal with what she has done and will do as President. You can go way back to the weird ways she's escaped consequences 'because she just didn't understand what she'd done.' For those who defend her lying, hope they aren't raising kids with that kind of justification.
In my opinion, we have two flawed candidates this time around and how you feel about issues will probably determine how you vote-- and then hope for the best.
Rain
Again you are 100% spot on!!
When you vote for Hillary you are voting for someone who has been in politics for years and lied from day one.
The only reason I can imagine her doing so it for the $$.
So lying to avoid facing the consequences of your actions is a desirable character trait in a President, Dave Dubya?
Sorry you think that was my point. I expected that conclusion from Chuck, who also ignores or repeats Trump's lies.
Some lies are more dangerous than others. If you don't think so, look at Iraq...and ISIS. The fruits of the dangerous lies.
Hillary's lies have made her money, gained her power, and that's okay? I see it that a person may have to vote for her based on the alternative but I don't remotely see her as someone with character.
I didn't say Trump didn't lie. I said both are flawed. I would like though for someone to admit, from the left, that she's a liar but they will have to vote for her and they are not fooled. What got me when I looked into her past again recently, just to see if I was being unfair to her, is how she got off on other things besides the most recent by-- she just didn't understand what she'd done. So the most recent with the emails is okay because she didn't intend to send our secrets to enemies. Is it also okay that she did it to hide that she was engaged in pay for play. Of course, it was a good cause-- the Clinton Foundation. Of course, that didn't actually benefit her other than she's now a multimillionaire and did allow meetings with those who donated a lot to her foundation.
I want to make it clear. I am not a leftie or rightie. I am in the middle and swing different ways depending on the issues. As a moderate, I look at these two and think how did we come to this? Hillary has the support of the Hollywood elites and the big money. She talks like she's for the little guy while she eats meals with celebrities because they are the ones she relates to. I really cringe that she'll be our next President, but Trump... seriously can I vote for him? I think my husband and I may cancel each other out this year as he's thinking of voting for Trump and he's not any racist or extreme right winger. He's just tired of the trajectory we are on.
We have friends who are being badly hurt by the health care issues with raising premiums and copays and finding it harder to find doctors. I don't know if Trump can fix it but the idea that Hillary will continue on Obama's policies, like with trade, is not good news to me. Even Supreme Court Justices have me wondering since I am a gun owner and although I'd like more regulations for having a gun and what kind, I don't want gun rights taken away. I should add, we donated a lot of money to Obama's campaign-- twice but his policies like for trade have been a big disappointment. I think he sold out on health care based on protecting the corporate interests to get his bill (same with TPP). As retirees, in a good financial situation, we worry about our grandkids and their future. It's the most disappointing year I ever remember for a Presidential election and I have seen a LOT of them.
Hillary's lies have made her money, gained her power, and that's okay?
Again, not my point. Are you saying her lies are what put her into the Senate or State Department? You must know something I don't.
I can't recall the number of times I've stated the fact that Hillary is a corporatist and neocon. Both are antithetical to democracy, shared prosperity, and peace.
I won't vote for her. This doesn't mean I will allow neo-fascist Trumpism to go unchallenged.
Of course she has lied. That is what politicians do, therefore it is important to differentiate between the liars. I've noted but a few of Trump's lies for comparison. We can either buy into the corporate media line and shrug, "Both sides do it", embracing false equivalence, or we can point out the relative danger and hate mongering in them.
I am also a firearm owner. As for gun rights, the old con-lie about Clinton/Obama/Clinton coming to take them away is nothing but NRA/Republican propaganda. Do those lies count as much as Hillary's? Supreme Court appointments have been between moderates or the Right's Federalist Society, dedicated to the dismantling of constitutional regulation of commerce and general welfare.Sadly, we will not be seeing anyone remotely like Bernie Sanders appointed by either the dominant corporatist party or the junior corporatist party.
Disarming the American people is not in the Democratic Party platform. It won't happen, yet the corporate/far Right have engineered this cult belief and this myth will never be relinquished.
Mark Twain accurately noted: "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Also remember what has become Obamacare originated from the Right's Heritage Foundation, not from Bernie, not even from Obama the appeaser. Healthcare is a right elsewhere, and should be here. Why waste billions of our health care dollars into corporate pockets that provide zero care?
This clearly shows who owns the politicians. In these twisted and sick times being pro-democracy is now seen as radical.
I can't comprehend how anyone with a lick of sense believes Trump. All I can see is hate and resentment guiding their beliefs.
If America chooses a pro-torture president who said Obama isn't an American and founded ISIS, while climate change is a Chinese Hoax, we shall most certainly reap what we sow.
Imagine the abuse of power gained by THOSE lies.
Dave,
Enlighten us with the lies Trump made while holding an elected office.
Rain, you seem to be the only one truly making sense here. I won't vote for Trump or Hillary though. The system is broken and our uneducated, ignorant, pop-culture-worshiping citizens are to blame for the hell we will all have to pay.
When we have people putting a dangerous, boorish, ignorant, and bombastic fool on the GOP ticket and then similarly put a corrupt, lying, criminal on the Democrat ticket, there really isn't a valid choice in which one can cast his or her vote in good conscience. Sadly, either person elected will end up causing grave harm to our already failing nation.
That is the legacy we are leaving our kids and grandkids, as Rain said.
JG:
If I deleted your comment it was inadvertent.
I'm not crazy about the idea of Hillary as president. But the choice between her and Trump is like having to choose between a cold or terminal brain cancer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi.html?_r=1
September 3, 2016
"The documents provided a number of new details about Mrs. Clinton’s private server, including what appeared to be a frantic effort by a computer specialist to delete an archive of her emails even after a congressional committee had requested they be preserved.
In a 3½-hour interview with the Justice Department’s top counterintelligence officials on July 2, Mrs. Clinton defended her handling of the private email system by repeatedly saying she had deferred to the judgment of her aides, an F.B.I. summary of the interview showed."
You Clinton defenders got to admit that they are masters at covering their arses by lying, distorting the facts, and throwing people under the bus. Remember the attempted defense of "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is", amirite?
Its great to see, that despite heroic efforts by the media and State Department to cover Crooked Hillary, details about the Clinton Foundation's pay for play arrangement with the State Department is causing Hillarys poll numbers to tank.
This is the single most corrupt scandal since Teapot Dome.
Deleting emails with BleachBit reminds of when Hope Arkansas ran out of paper shredders when the Rose law firm was told to release records on White Water. The Clintons threw Susan McDougal under the bus on that one. She had to serve prison time for refusing to answer questions on Slick Willie's association with White Water. 15 individuals were convicted but the Clintons came out squeaky clean. Anybody wonder what Susan McDougal was told to keep her mouth shut?
Also, lets face it people, when it comes to handling top secret information Hillary is as sharp as a bowling ball.
More and more people are realizing that Hillary is a pathological liar and should not be president. "O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!" should be on the headstones of both of the Clintons.
To those with selective memory who will deflect by saying we went into Iraq based on lies, check out the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 where Bill Clinton stated Saddam Hussein should be removed from power and that Iraq has stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.
Hillary's health also concerns me, I doubt she could open a pickle jar.
Dave, I wrote so much on commenting to your post above that it got out of hand for posting it here. I have several blogs and try to keep politics out of my main one as it is something that upsets so many people. Health has to come first and I try to make the main blog positive... mostly. Sometimes though I just need to rant and I have a place I can without caring who it pleases. I don't know if Tom allows a link like that here but if he doesn't, he has moderation now and can just not post it ;) -- Rainy Day Rants. I don't have a schedule there; so something shows up only when I'm in the mood. Sometimes the whole thing is so upsetting that I don't feel like even ranting about it.
Hillary is no worse than our average sleazy neoliberal/neocon politicians. Yet the twenty odd years of smearing from the Right has demonized that person well beyond all others.
Funny how Hillary is the "great liar" and Trump isn't. Well, not funny, but depressing. Why does he get a pass on his neo-fascist, hate, resentment and paranoid filled lies?
Everyone here says Hillary lied, yet not one of you has openly called Trump a liar. In fact I got jumped for suggesting the differing nature of the lies.
The only indication in this thread, other than my point, is Rain's, "I didn't say Trump didn't lie." Still she is more focused on Hillary's lies than Trump's. Why is that?
At least I acknowledged the truth with "Of course she has lied." In fact the most dangerous and harmful of her lies was agreeing with Bush and Cheney's lies. THOSE lies had the most serious of consequences.
TP,
What parts of this thread don't make sense to you?
If you can tell us which of Hillary's "crimes" are worse than authorizing torture and indefinite incarceration without charges, and invading a country based on lies, leading to the deaths of untold thousands and the birth of ISIS, then I share your outrage.
Tom,
Although I won't vote for Trump or Clinton, at least I appreciate the sanity of understanding the binary reality of this election, and the consequences of a disaster waiting in the wings that will make Bush/Cheney seem like honest statesmen.
Yes, our country is on the decline, but do we want to hope for the best for a crash landing or go down in flames with Trump?
It's a form of mental illness to believe human lives can be entrusted to an ignorant hate monger.
It is gullibility to the point of pure delusion.
Now I expect to be chastised once again for "worshiping Hillary" or some such nonsense.
Tom Degan: "But the choice between her and Trump is like having to choose between a cold or terminal brain cancer."
Tom, I think you're way too biased in framing your analogy. I believe Julian Assange's metaphor was more accurate when asked who he favored and he replied, "Well, you’re asking me, do I prefer cholera or gonorrhea?"
If Ms. Clinton were only the equivalent of a cold, I'd eat better, drink plenty of liquids, and within a few days I'd feel better. As you know, healing from cholera and gonorrhea wouldn't occur as easily without plenty of affordable help.
Clinton told FBI she couldn't recall key details 26 times.
Blames the concussion cause by the fall
Yes, she is the most qualified person running for President, LOL.
How many times did Reagan say "Well, I...don't recall" at the Iran Contra hearings?
I'm thinking more than 26, since it was almost the only answer he ever gave.
Blames Alzheimer's he'd had since before he was elected.
Yes, he was the most qualified person elected president.
Majormajor: "Clinton told FBI she couldn't recall key details 26 times."
and...
Mozart1220: "How many times did Reagan say 'Well, I...don't recall' at the Iran Contra hearings?"
Ah, yes, "I don't recall" -- while under oath, the most expedient and foolproof answer to prevent being convicted of perjury. It's the real life equivalent of the Monopoly "Get Out of Jail Free" card.
With what is known, why the three of you (Tom Degan included) would continue to back either candidate totally mystifies me. Your support of, and devotion to, your respective candidates is the reason I've lost all faith in the American electorate to do the right thing.
Dubya, the focus for Tom's piece was to vote for Hillary, and it's why my emphasis was on her. Where it comes to Trump, I don't know if he lies or just is wrong. For a President, not sure that's better than having a liar, but it's just harder to say for sure. He seems to stay ignorant and chooses to get all his info from right wing sources. But then a lot of lefties get all theirs from left wing sources.
The thing with Hillary is she is supposed to be super intelligent and the most experienced person ever running for President; so when she says she can't recall (a common theme for her over the years), a person (who doesn't already support her) does have to wonder what's going on. For those though who hate Trump, who call him names, it doesn't matter. It's necessary for them to defend her by saying this all happened because someone was out to get her. Interestingly enough with that 'out to get her', she's managed to amass a fortune and get a second run for the Presidency. For being picked on, she's done rather well for herself-- no press conferences this year, going to one fat cat fundraising event after another, not gaining the crowds of the working stiffs, and still the likely winner in November. It seems it's either poor Hillary or Hillary the magnificent depending on the latest accusation.
I can't vote for Trump either though (just imagining him having John Bolton in a Cabinet or a Supreme Court pick would decide that) so-- I will likely be voting third party this time and that's a first for me.
T. Paine: "When we have people putting a dangerous, boorish, ignorant, and bombastic fool on the GOP ticket and then similarly put a corrupt, lying, criminal on the Democrat ticket, there really isn't a valid choice in which one can cast his or her vote in good conscience."
Sure there is!...but you'll need to abandon your preconceived notion that a "valid choice" can only be found within the two-party system.
Out of curiosity, and because you've already committed that you'll vote for neither major party candidate, who will you be voting for?
"Yes, he was the most qualified person elected president. "
Elected twice in landslides, so I'd say the people believed he was the most qualified.
"Blames Alzheimer's he'd had since before he was elected."
Site your source for that one!
Again more false equivalences from liberals, as Regan is not running for office.
Next to the race card it is all they have.
Chuck "can't recall" Reagan handed our government over to corporate shills, and led our creditor nation into a debtor nation. 'Cause Constitutional taxation and regulation of commerce are evil, greed is good, and "gobmint's the problem".
Perhaps Chuck has a touch of Alzheimer's too?
Rain,
Where it comes to Trump, I don't know if he lies or just is wrong.
It's not either/or, it's both.
Mexico is sending murderers to America.
Obama is a foreign born Muslim.
Obama founded ISIS.
Hillary co-founded ISIS.
Trump knows more about ISIS than the generals.
Judges with Mexican ancestry cannot do their job.
Dupes, fools, rubes and authoritarians still won't admit Bush and Cheney lied us into war.
And yet Hillary the she-demon is sill the most corrupt Big Liar in our history. Amazing.
This country is only getting what it deserves.
tom you're right
common cold or Spanish influenza
hangnail or amputation
diarrhea or Ebola
they all work because the difference
is that damn stark
shit we all wanted Bernie
but in politics like war
you go with the candidate you got
not the one you want!
Bernie's not dead he's still there to
shape policy yell truth to power
Trump is a god damn caricature
an assimilation of all the heinous
attributes that can be contributed
to this nation without one smidgen
of compassion, or decency
A hollow man filled with ego
and topped by orange hair
Clucky, everyone knows Reagan had Alzhiemers. Everyone knows he lied at the Iran Contra hearings
Obama isn't running either but you have slammed him.
Trump isn't qualified to run a dog show,(He'd probably say he'd date one if it wasn't HIS dog) let alone a nation.
Hillary IS the most qualified AND since the FBI has cleared her you can stop beating the HERD of dead horses you have been obsessing on.
Or do you want to WHINE about her nail polish now?
JC, there are TWO viable candidates.
ONE is the most qualified person EVER to run.
The Other is Trump, who is married to a hooker and wants to sleep with his daughter.
Take away the GOP BULLSHIT and There is nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton.
The thought of Trump picking SCOTUS judges is enough.
Mozart, because of uninformed opinions and/or totally ideological stances from people like you, I've abandoned hope in the American electorate to do the right thing.
Mozart
Site your sources for claim that Reagan had alzhiemers. Should be a snap if as you claim everybody knew he had it.
Nothing wrong with Hillary?
LOL!!!
"Site your sources for claim that Reagan had Alzheimer's."
How about the press release from the Reagan Library on the day he died?
Chuck, you really need to take a hiatus on the comments. More often than not you make a complete ass of yourself.
Tom Degan: "More often than not you make a complete ass of yourself."
"GIGO"...this term has stuck with me since I was in school so many decades ago. It used to relate strictly to the computer industry and the problems incurred with program output that was faulty and incorrect.
Today's brand of conservatism has widened the net of applicability.
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