Chris Matthews Nails It
"He [President Obama] is going to destroy this country, and we're either going to stop him or the United States of America is going to cease to exist."Alan Keyes
By the way, over a decade ago, Keyes had a nightly program on MSNBC. Are you ready for the punchline? It was called, Alan Keyes Is Making Sense. I'm not kidding you.
Just in case you happened to miss Hardball last night on MSNBC, Chris Matthews' special report, The Rise of the New Right , was one of those rare (these days) moments of essential viewing that we would be wise not to ignore. It will probably be repeated several times in the next few weeks and I urge you to keep your eye out for it. Seriously, if Matthews doesn't get an Emmy for this program there is no justice in this world.
The program is the most comprehensive look yet (at least on non-public television) at the crack-up the Conservative movement in this country is now going through. Let's face some serious facts here, boys and girls: The right wing in this country has always been (since the days of the Confederacy and before) a tad crazy - not to mention dumber than doggy dung. What is happening to them now is beyond anything in their long and entertainingly weird history. In effect they've totally lost it. Here's a quaint little soundbite from last night's program that illustrates perfectly what I'm talking about. The words were uttered by some pathetic, bat shit-crazy woman at last year's "March on Washington":
"We are losing our country. We think the Muslims are moving in and taking over. We do not believe our president is a Christian - and he let us believe that. The president is a liar. God bless Joe Wilson."
Isn't that sweet? We can only assume she was not referring to the same "Joe Wilson" who is married to Valerie Plame, but that's just a hunch on my part.
Once upon a time people this - "ill informed" shall we say? - were to be found mostly on the fringes of the American political scene. Not even in the days of old Joe McCarthy did it get this strange - not on such a national level anyway. Back in the good ol' days, the type of behavior we are witnessing today was pretty much restricted to KKK rallies in the deep south and the editorial offices of the Wall Street Journal. A half a century ago political extremism hadn't yet gone mainstream. It has now. In fact it's ready for prime time! For this we can all thank the nice people at FOX Noise.
It was Rupert Murdoch's "News Group" that promoted this movement from its inception. Murdoch himself has denied this accusation over and over again, but the videotapes are there - and video doesn't lie - unless, of course, it's a taped replay of a typical Sean Hannity program. The Plutocracy, with FOX as its propaganda arm, has brilliantly managed to convince a huge segment of the American public - a lot of whom could barely be qualified as middle class - that the problem with this country is all those damned, bleeding heart Liberals. The question needs to be put to them: "Where were you assholes when George W. Bush was driving this nation into the economic ditch?"
"We need to defeat these bastards. We need to wipe them out."
-Rush Limbaugh
Ah, yes! The language of inferred violence! It's out there, folks. They're not reporting it on FOX but it's out there. One person, a Tea Party candidate named Sharron Angle who is running for Harry Reid's seat, actually said that the Nevada senator should be "taken out". This hideous bitch then went on to say that what is direly needed was a "Second Amendment solution". You know what she's talkin' about, don'cha? Sure ya do! It's the same type of solution implemented by John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald when they "took out" two noted politicians of their day whose policies they disagreed with. It's the same "solution" Sirhan Sirhan used when he murdered Robert Francis Kennedy forty-two years ago this month. It is the exact "solution" carried out by (let's be fair to the ultra-Conservatives) Arthur Bremer in 1972 when he attempted to assassinate right wing icon and uber-racist George Wallace.
This is the new political atmosphere of the United States. I fear that it is only a matter of time before the ultimate act of violence is carried out. I pray to God that I am wrong, but I don't think I am; in fact I am certain of it.
"I have a message - a message from the Tea Party that is loud and clear and does not mince words: We have come to take our government back."
- Rand Paul
"Take our government back"? From whom??? Is he referring to the same people who were duly elected via legal democratic processes? Is he implying that the administration of Barack Obama is somehow not legitimate? Of course he is! Most of these jackasses refuse to believe that the president is an American citizen in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. What we are dealing with here is a political movement made up of people whose senses have decided to take a permanent vacation.
REALITY CHECK:
Anyone who denies that the core of the Tea Party's rage is the fact that our president is an African American is kidding themselves. The evidence is too stark to ignore: This is a white supremest movement, kiddies. To be sure, at any Tea Party gathering there can always be seen on the peripherals of the crowd a pathetic, token Uncle Tom or two, chomping the hell out of some unfortunate watermelon. And while it would be unfair to categorically state that every member of the Tea Party is a racist, this is essentially a White Nationalist movement we're dealing with here. Let's stop kidding ourselves. By the way, Malcolm X had the perfect description of the Alan Keyeses of this world: "House Niggers". The man really had a way with words, didn't he? You gotta love him!
Here's the good news: When the Republicans stupidly embraced the Tea Party last year, they effectively kissed a viper smack dab on the lips. It is my belief that this nutty movement of freaks and malcontents will end up doing that party more harm than good. Last January on this site, I predicted that Harry Reid was a goner on Election Day next. That was before the Nevada GOP cheerfully nominated the Tea Party's newest sweetheart Sharron Angle to run against him - she of the "Second Amendment solution" fame. This extremism run-amok is starting to frighten the hell out of the segment of the electorate who identify themselves as "moderate". Without the support of the moderates, the "party of Abraham Lincoln" is screwed. Remember you read it here.
You know, I was just thinking: We sure do live in interesting times. We really do!
Tom Degan
Goshen NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
AFTERTHOUGHT:
Here is a link to where you can watch The Rise of the New Right in all its nasty entirety on the Hardball website:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/vp=37742996�&from=en-us_msnhp&snid=18424736
Otherwise keep an eye out for it in your TV listings. They will be airing it again. It is absolutely essential viewing. Seriously.
SUGGESTED READING:
What's The Matter with Kansas
by Thomas Frank
posted by Tom Degan @ 4:08 PM
57 comments
57 Comments:
I saw it and also felt it was excellent. I especially liked how he showed the history of this way of thinking, the similarity of the words that these people use to build fear and anger. It's not fun viewing. It's upsetting to realize we have so many who think this way in our country, but we need to know it.
Great article Tom
Didn't catch this show... Ive seen enough of it in real life.
I'm sure with all these dingbats converging on your site the inevitable "You're a racist for calling us racists" comments will start flooding in. In fact I can pretty much guarantee it lol. I will never understand how that makes any rational sense...
Lets not forget the Muslim element. Obama is black but he also has a Islamic name. These people are more racist against Muslim than black people.
I don't agree that these people are purely white supremacist. There is definitely racist elements whether they realize it or not. Too bad for them, once the label gets stuck, its impossible to wash off. Anyone involved whether they are racist or not, is guilty by association.
I do personally know several conservatives and T-baggers who are very racist. Combined with what I have observed online and in real life there is no denying the simple truth, these people are racist.
I also feel something terrible is going to happen and most likely soon. It may be overly dramatic to call this a boiling pot, but look around... God help us if any sort of successful organized domestic terrorist attach takes place. It will most likely lead to a huge crack down and more violence...
Tom I was blogging and trying to watch the show at the same time. So much was going on last night it was all coming to a head at the same time the show came on. I know it will air this weekend so I will catch it then. Your analysis of the rightwing NUTS is right on. They are killing the republican party and are too dumb to realize it. How else do you explain more wins by extremists like Angle and R Paul? Which BTW is great news for us! The rightwingers are hateful, hideous people, they need to implode and SOON!
Oh and sadly, I have a brother who is now saying.."Obama is not a Christian, he is a Muslim" Goodfuckingrief....
Peace and Love to ya Tom
I was raised to be a bigot. Of course, I was also raised a tea totaling, Christian non-smoker. I got over that last group a lot faster than the first. However by being “appropriately” indoctrinated from birth, I can pretty much spot anyone that avows that they aren’t a bigot, yet truly are, from a mile away. The Tea-party and their ilk are nothing if not KKK in a cleverer disguise. All one has to do is really “listen” and not talk in their presence. It doesn’t take much of their conversation before it denigrates into the using of the “n” word…particularly if they happen to think if you’re one of “them.” I live in KY and work with folk that have masters (and even doctorates) and yet hear that sort of trash every single day. Regardless of who won the “War Between the States” the South hasn’t changed all that much, pockets of it, yes, the vast majority of the willfully ignorant, not so much. It is so discouraging…sigh.
Lee in KY
I'm pulling it up on the lappy as we speak. Meanwhile, I absolutely loved the quotes you chose! Every one of them is tautological, schizophrenic insanity. They sound like send-ups, like Jon Stewart tweets, like the punchlines of jokes on the Colbert Report. Alan Keyes states he will either destroy Obama or the USA; well, which is it, Al? Rand Paul is not supposed to want to own a government.
Fools. As a sociologist, I was always worried about where reality television would lead.
Tom, I appreciate your comments AND the time-saving link to the Matthews program, I saw your comment on the HuffPo story about this item, and I found it to be more thoughtful than the usual drivel people post. I'll save a link to your blog. Unfortunately, long bookmarks lists aren't very easily managed. So I'll keep a link on my desktop for when I have more time to read more.
Thanks, -- "Bob6stringer" (not my name at HuffPo.)
Thank you for the kind words and for stopping by. Much appreciated!
By the way, did anyone catch Barton of Texas accusing Obama of a "shake down" of BP and then apologizing to the company? The guy is too good to be true!
Cheers!
tom
And all 7 of his audience agrees...that about sums it up.
Both the Republican Party and the corporate lackeys who created the Tea Party are starting to worry about this monster they've created. In case you haven't noticed, Dick Armey and the rest are telling their candidates to run from the Tea Party label far and fast. Thus we have the modern "constitutional conservative running on the Republican ticket" candidate -- a dog whistle to the Tea Party, but not too scary for the GOP moderates.
Good luck with that!
The majority of the Tea Party is made up of people who were told their whole lives that a black man would never be elected President of the United States, and believed it as an article of faith. When the unthinkable happened, their response was disbelief, it had to be a trick, hence the birther movement.
Faux Noise seized on that irrational belief and promoted it for its own gain, giving the loonies on the rightwing fringe the legitimacy they never would have gotten on their own.
As far as Glenn Beck having a larger audience than Chris Matthews, I think a quote from H.L. Mencken explains that: "The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; .
the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth."
Hello, Bill!
I've never heard that Mencken quote before but it sure rings true. Thank you so much for sharing it.
All the best,
Tom Degan
"It's the same type of solution implemented by John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald when they took on the policies of two noted politicians with which they disagreed."
Except Oswald did not shoot JFK.
-Allen Lowe
Lee in Ky - I am with you; I grew up in Georgia and still have bigoted, red necked and so called educated cousins living there. Racism and hatred is alive and well in the south.
Tom, a point that you touched on has me very concerned; I too am afraid that we are going to have bloody violence. And although I have been against violence and such all of my life, I am seriously thinking it is about time to get armed. Actually, I am not alone in this; many of my friends on the so called Liberal Left are thinking the same thing; get armed and ready to fight if necessary.
I saw the piece and it is nothing more than propaganda meant to further divide US. It is entirely frustrating to have people repeat the words of Bill Oreilly, Glen Beck, or Chris Mathews without even doing a little bit of research... The rise of the new right is flat out one of the most blatant pieces of brainwashing I've ever seen.. no different than FoxNews.. wake up folks.
I voted for Obama, used to be a dedicated NPR listener.. then I started flipping the channel to hear what Rush Limbaugh had to say.. still didn't buy it.
Then I read 1984 and Brave New World, then I started listening to the Alex Jones Show.. then I started researching much of the "conspiracy" theories.. and to my amazement, when I DID RESEARCH ON MY OWN.. I realized that Alex Jones is about 95% accurate.. This blog is another example of pre-judging an entire segment of the population that have different opinions. The irony in accusing conservatives to be "dumber than dogyy do-do" while at the same time pre-defending yourself from being attacked as a racist.. I mean seriously folks.. Divided we all fall.
You know what really matters:
Chem Trails, Nuclear War, BP Oil Leak, Obama's lies (like i said I voted for him because I believed in his hope & change and I NEVER voted for Bush Co.)
or what about:
Al Gore and Ken Lay setting the groundwork for Carbon Trading at the Kyoto Summit? Or perhaps you want to explore the number of executives from Goldman Sachs who are currently serving the white house.. or perhaps you want to start somewhere really simple and do some research on Monsanto and the depth of their reach into the FDA, Supreme Court, and Agricultural Policies.
Go ahead and label those people who are genuinely worried about the security of our country.. while there is a 7% rise in homeless families this year, rise in unemployment, rise in the number of Federal Workers (yes, the government now is responsible for over 58% of the income in our country.. this will in fact cause major problems due to lack of tax revenue)
Great piece. I hadn't seen this blog before, glad I found it.
Because I am a history geek, however, I've got to say that the degree of conservative whackadinghoy-ery we're seeing these days is not quite as new as we think it is. We think of it as new because we have all lived in a post-Rooseveltian (Theodore, not FDR) nation in which the general consensus has always been that some degree of minimal 'leftist' philosophy was necessary to truly support a civilized society.
Even in that post-Rooseveltian society, however, the qualities we bemoan in the New Right have always been there in the Old Right. The Civil War happened in the first place because Southern conservatives couldn't agree on one presidential candidate for the political party they largely controlled. Then they decided they didn't like the guy to whom their inability to compromise handed the election.
Soon they were shooting at the US Army... at a garrison ironically commanded by a guy from the South.
We dismiss the KKK today because the KKK, today, begs so desperately to be dismissed. In the 1920s, you couldn't win a Democratic nomination without the KKK endorsement. Not just in the 'South.' One could not be elected to a Congressional or Senate seat in Indiana if the KKK wasn't behind you. At one point, every elected official in the state was a member.
The big change is not that the right has become crazier. They've always been much as they are now. The big change is that, since the 1980s (and arguably since Jimmy Carter won the 1976 nomination by running to the right of the rest of the Democratic Party and won the presidency primarily as a Christian populist), the center has been moving to the right and the left to the center.
In the 1950s a president like Eisenhower could be a referee between the left and the right and happily sign a centrist compromise into law with a clean conscience.
Today the conservative 'center' starts with a compromise the moderate 'left' can swallow but the reactionary right is compelled to reject.
The far right is pretty much as it always has been. It's just that the center and left are closer to them than they have ever been before.
This isn't something we can blame on the Republicans or 'conservatives.' Centrists and liberals /chose/ to become conservatives and moderates.
Eclectic Radical....
Something you wrote really hit home - in fact I was thinking about it only a few minutes before I read your post. My grandfather, whose name was Walter Clements, was a native of South Bend, Indiana. I have written about him on this site before. He was involved in Indiana politics in the 20s and 30s. Being a Catholic, he mightily opposed the Klan and fought them on every front. To the day of his death in 1975, he would speak of them with unveiled contempt.
Thanks for the great post, pal, and keep 'em coming!
All the best,
Tom Degan
"To be sure, at any Tea Party gathering there can always be seen on the peripherals of the crowd a pathetic, token Uncle Tom or two, chomping the hell out of some unfortunate watermelon."
Ok Senator Bryd, you can come out from behind the curtain now. You're not fooling anyone.
What a cute little piece of fluff you have, here, Tom.
Nobody with an I higher than room temperature will ever take it seriously, of course. (the same problem poor Chris Matthews has.) But still, at least it seems to be giving you and your circle of friends a comfy little echo chamber to regurgitate your ignorance and hate... and, hey, whatever keeps you out of the way of productive society, right?
I just stopped by to take a peek in much the same way one pauses to listen to a couple of homeless argue over which planet the mind-control signals are coming from- It's amusing as much as it is pathetic... a novelty of ridiculousness that offers a momentary laugh for those who don't share your complete disconnect reality.
I thank you for the amusement. "useful idiots", indeed!
the following blog is a lot better than this place:
http://www.realitychex.com/the-blog
Thomas Frank nails it too.
"What's The Matter with Kansas" and "The Wrecking Crew" really helped me understand what people with backgrounds and opinions very different from mine are thinking and from whence some of these groups arise.
TOM! Did I direct you to an article written by Benito Mussolini on the definition of fascism? I sure hope so, because you truly MUST read this thing. I found it sometime back when i was checking to make sure i was not mis-using the term (I hate capitalizing "I")(wastes time) Anyway as i was reading this thing the hairs on the back of my neck rose up because i was reading the RNC platform only it was written by the King of Fascism! Oh Tom, we in deep poop now.
No war is ever won, no battle decisive.
It is a little known fact, but the fascist were not a cohesive body any more than the so-called Conservative movement is. They had their nut jobs, too, just like Glenn Beck. Many Nazis did not appreciate the "Final Solution" because they were sane enough to know that would kill their country, as it did. Actually it was Hitler's insanity that killed them, but he was crazy mad at the Jews. So here in American Fascistland we have a few Republicrats claiming sanity and sounding not-too-crazy, but over at Faux News, not so sane. Why are they gathering nut jobs? Cannon fodder, mobs, assassins. But make no mistake about it kids, the new American Fascists (aka Tea Party) expect to, plan to and are eager to light up the night skies, breaking windows and lynching moderates, intellectuals, gays, and Muslims. Actually they don't have to be Muslim per se, just brown skinned, turbaned or have an accent.
"But it can't happen here." As you go down in flames, or escape in the night to Canada this phrase will be reverberating in your head. It's what many Europeans said in the late 30's. But of course it can. I have known enough people on the fringe of white supremacy to know that it is happening here, but now we have at least a couple national TV stations accelerating the mood and encouraging violence against others, especially our President. Night before last I watched a Senator tell Jon Stewart that Obama was certainly NOT born in Hawaii! I repeat: a member of Congress, sporting a big stupid grin, asserted that the POTUS is a non-citizen, which means the Ship of State is rudderless. Time for an all-American Hero to show up and take up the tiller and steer us safely to world conquest and rows of neat little death camps.
Can we not PLEASE if we rescue this sad collapsing empire can we PLEASE include sanity as a requirement for public office? How the hell did they miss that criteria? Egotistical slave owning idiots in their stupid powdered wigs left us wide open to DEATH BY DUMBNESS!!
Sorry Tom but the whole damn story is so fucking easy to read and yet so damn few care enough about their country to even think about it. I can no longer talk about politics to ANY of my friends because "it upsets" them. Great. Let's be murdered in our sleep.
Are you a history person or (how do I phrase this?)just a political person? See, history tells us what is going to happen to us. Politics is how. Ya wanna know WHAT? Fire, bombs, guns, riots and eventual dissolution of the federation. Yup. I know this is the case because as a student of history I have discovered that back before the 7th century this sort of thing went on. People can't learn, it is not in our DNA, we don't know what to do with old information so we forget it. And we don't talk to our children, we insult their intelligence.
PT 2
The good news is that every population of mankind has gone down this road in the same way every male grew pubes and began to obsess about boobs. The New federation of some half dozen regions will be more European-like except for the Southern regions like New Texas and New Arizona, which will still be fighting over brown skin versus white. So the NE Region will negotiate with the Central region over air pollution problems, the NW Region can negotiate with Japan and New California will probably turn into the world's pot dealer, as well as a very rich country.
Finally, between you and me, DNA studies affirm that "race" is a myth based on skin tone variation in the human species. So Racists are actually acting upon their lizard brain's aversion to "others" in the same way an albino deer is not allowed into the herd. But the all white deer does not register as prey to the wolves, so they remain at the edge, safe. My point is the brown deer are no safer by rejecting the white.
We should try to learn from our furry brothers.
I always laugh when the leftwing nuts have to resort, "they are all racist" know what I say whatever you do not know me, you don't know what I do and the amazing part I feel sorry for liberals like you who live a paranoid life of a boogeyman behind every rock. Anything that is on MSNBC and especially out of Matthews mouth you know is DNC approved and for the most part dishonest, but hey you libs keep living a life of hate.
Speaking of quotes, notalib reminds me of one from "Blazing Saddles':
"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all in debt to Gabby Johnson for stating what needed to be said. I am particularly glad that these lovely children are here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed the courage little seen in this day and age."
Thanks, notalib.
Paranoid is a great word to describe the cackling going on here. What a scoop Matthews has – newsflash - there are people who don’t agree with him. Oh, and some of them are racists. What? Who knew? Uh, Chris, we knew that already, my man. I suspect he couldn’t truly refute an argument if his life depended on it, so he resorts, as media shills on both sides do, to ad hominem attacks. The benefit he has, though, is that he has the perfect resume for his role – DNC speech writer.
You guys don’t get it. The media decides what movements are created in America. The media created the tea-party movement. The media created it to tear it down. It’s a straw man on a grand scale. These guys are working you like puppets. But, you want to be worked like a puppet so you don’t have to think. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t buy into the Rep/Dem false dichotomy hook, line and sinker.
Here’s a dose of reality. Obama has not shut down Gitmo, has increased troops in the eastern war front by many thousands, and is in the pockets of the insurance industry with his “health care” plan. Yet his popularity is as strong as ever. Oh, maybe a few dissenters, but nothing really. No Matthews news specials on this topic for sure.
Regarding that dose of reality, Harley....
Good points and all conceded. The fact of the matter is that this president has been a disappointment in too many areas. Thanks for the post.
Hatred, bigotry, and ignorance have been with us since the beginning of mankind. The Founding Fathers certainly didn't agree on many subjects. Slavery was a huge issue with them and, as we all know, it took many years for it to be abolished.
Ugly political cartoons were rampant before radio made the spread of information more rapid. The 'far right' thinkers have always been there.
The big difference between then and now is that the news is instant via TV, radio and the Internet. The hatred and misinformation spreads so rapidly. Helen Thomas, one of the greatest journalists in my life time, can make a most unfortunate anti-Semitic sounding comment in private and it is all over every news channel the next day.
The Tea Party bunch are frightening because of the mob mentality. Not one of them stop to ask, "Is this really true? Who said so and why? What is the motive of the speaker? What will a country 'taken back' look like? How will it be governed?" They just parrot the hateful rhetoric without giving a single thought to what it means, or if it's true or not. It's so much easier to let someone else do your thinking.
And so they scream and form a glob of humanity like some writhing beast demanding something that they don't have a clue about. It is so easy for the manipulators to sway a glob (mob)like this and watch it spread like the oil in the gulf. It's tentacles reach the non-educated so easily.
Fanaticism can quickly become a very dangerous thing in the 'blotter believers'. They soak up the slogans and thrive on the excitement and the spreading glob rapidly reaches every corner of the country. God help us!
Great post Tom, I'm going to check out the Chris Matthews special later today.
http://braff-234.blogspot.com
Okay, I have read your piece and then the comments, or read most of them anyhow, and I find myself wondering how you have the courage to blog. It's kind of awe inspiring and terrifying. Talk about anger! I for once totally agree that a lot of the anger is directed at our president simply because of the color of his skin. But I know there are those who don't see it that way. My feeling is, they should do their best to try and imagine what it would be like if he was white, or say, Hilary Clinton, or make that Bill Clinton, or even hey, Ronald Reagan. What then? Would we have the tea party going on at length about taking back "their" country? I don't think so.
Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that there are those of us who believe Obama’s policies (and your own worldviews) are significantly flawed and will lead the US down the path of decreased prosperity? The politics of egalitarianism hurts everyone and tends to impact the poorest the worst. Study Argentina – they are the best model of where we are headed, and it’s not pretty. People uncritically believe that we’ve had failures in free market economy when, in reality, they were politically-driven failures. Unfortunately, this forum is too brief to explain. BP, the banking industry, the housing collapse – all politically driven failures. Yet, these failures are used as more ammunition to take us further into the desert of fascism/socialism.
Red, yellow, black, white – the man is a bad President. Jimmy Carter on steroids. You really want to talk about race? He had zero qualifications for this job. He was elected unapologetically because of no other reason than his color, yet you don’t call this racist. It’s hypocritical.
It is the conservative world view and policies that are totally flawed and have been ruining this country! Also if you think socialism = fascism then you have no clue what you are talking about, so STFU!!!
Laneman,
I do not think socialism = fascism, nor did I state that in my post. They are cut from the same Marxist mold, though. The reason I listed both is that Obama and liberals in this country like to borrow from both systems. Believe me, I don’t need to be educated by you, but nice try. Also, thanks for following the liberal model of silencing (well, trying anyway) your opponent. The STFU defense – brilliant !!!
Harley,
Fascism and Marxism are two different things. Yet it is conservatives who don't understand that. American liberals do not borrow from either of these systems. However conservatives borrow heavily from Fascism and are very supportive of it. You certainly do need to be educated since you are ignorant of the most basic facts of every topic. So, I stand by my defense, STFU!!!
Well, I'm not sure which planet you're following, but we will apparently not be able to engage in a rational conversation. Nice chatting with you.
And, by all means, stick with the STFU defense. It's the best shot you have - trust me.
Oh, I just saw the other gem - I am "ignorant of the most basic facts of every topic". That's priceless. What year of university are you currently in ?
Now! Now!
Let's be kind to one another.
There's nothing you can know that isn't known
Nothing you can see that isn't shown
There's no where you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
It's easy!
All you need is love
I don't understand the why so many folks don't like Marxism. Marx rightly thought class warfare, which leads to the exploitation of the working class ( the majority of We The People ) by the wealthy elite, would be eliminated if private ownership of property was eliminated and all resources and wealth was owned collectively by We The People. The communism in the USSR was not Marxism. The communal living on hippie communes was/is much closer to what Marx believed than what Amerikans have been brainwashed to believe Marxism was all about. No " reconditioning camps " or the like are necessary to achieve this.....folks just need to learn to share and not be self-centered greedy pigs !! This process begins with what folks teach their children. Humans are intelligent enough to learn that cooperation and sharing work a lot better than obstruction and greed. Until folks wake up to this things will never change for the better.
I love how Tommy Boy preaches love. Typical Liberal bullshit. You wouldn't know what love is if it knocked on your door.
How is that 6 month drill moratorium which was senseless and it was based on lies working out for you Tommy Boy.
I see that moron Matthews doesn't have that tingle going up his leg anymore. You know what I'm talking about Tommy Boy...that tingle you get when you think of Chivas Kennedy.
Todays liberals are cancers. Simple as that.
Harry from Mass
Hey Harry,
YOU and all conservatives are cancers!
How's that drill baby drill workin out fer ya?
Moron.
Tom,
Sorry, but I cannot be kind or practice peace and love towards conservatives. I just can't do it. My liberal ideals are only for other liberals. Conservatives go frak off and die. Sorry.
As Chris Matthews so aptly said, "This sort of name calling is not helpful". You are not proving your points or making converts. It is useless venting of your spleen. Lets all grow up and try to stick to the real issues and discuss them rationally.
I am a proud liberal and if you look the defintion up in the dictionary you will see why.
the current effort to roll back to the good old days recalls just how embedded white supremacy was/is in US society.
then-pres. Woodrow Wilson praised "Birth of a Nation" as "history writ in lightning." according to Wilson, the "white men of the South were aroused by the mere instinct of self-preservation [...] until at last there had sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan" (A History of the American People, vol. 5., Reunion & Nationalization, NY: Harper & Brothers, 1902), 58–60.
in 1925, the KKK marched 50k-strong down Pennsylvania Ave., passing Wilson's White House balcony.
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/articles.php?cid=86
and to those who say the TEA Party has absolutely nothing to do w/the defense of White Supremacy, ask yourself, what if they were angry, militant black men? and we already know the answer to that: Fred Hampton, "Buchy" Carter, John Huggins, Arthur Morris, Alex Rackley, Bobby Hutton...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/22/AR2010062204792.html
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"Laneman, you dumb coward. Drill baby drill works out fine 99.9% of the time you fruitcake. Your idiot president would be destroying lives if that judge didn't overrule him. Do us a favor and go save an ant or something you D bag."
Bad news sparky: President Obama's ban was for deepwater drilling, which applies to less than 1% of all the wells in the Gulf. So, according to your 'thinking', a spill of this size is an acceptable risk rather than shutting down 1 in 100 wells, some of which aren't even producing yet?
The BP spill clearly shows that IF something bad happens to a well in deep water, nobody knows how to stop it, so it would make sense (to anyone except some rightwingnut) to let all the producing wells, and all wells in shallower water keep working until someone finds a way yo keep something like this from happening again.
How could anyone but a complete imbecile attribute a political motive to stopping this catastrophe from happening again.
This has to be the second most moronic thing to come from the right in connection to the spill.
The first most moronic thing is Texas (where else? except maybe Oklahoma) Representative Joe Barton's apology to BP for making them clean up their own mess.
Hey Harry you stupid fucking piece of shit. When drill baby drill fails it fails big time. Do you not see that you stupid coward? Spills from drilling happen all the time all over the world. And the moratorium is a temporary one for drilling not production you idiot. Which effects only 33 wells. Leases for more drilling have already been approved. You moron.
Harry, you and all conservatives are scum. You support the corporate feudalism over democracy, the filthy rich over working people, and corporate greed over environmental protection. Ants are far far superior to you! And I would sooner help an insect over any republican or conservative any day. Now, go fuck off and die you piece of shit!
Okay fellows, start acting like adults and put a lid on the insults and name calling. If you want to act like school yard kids, get one another's address and go duke it out on the playground. But meanwhile stop boring the rest of us to death with your childish comments. Everyone who reads this column has the right to disagree, but keep it civil.
Hey Ellis, Esquire,
“The communism that was in the USSR was not Marxism…”
Where on Earth did you come up with that gem? Do you know any history? Lenin was a HUGE follower of Marx – he was THE Marx disciple. His driving goal in life was to implement the Marxist ideology and Stalin picked up where he left off. The USSR was the epitome of Marxist communism. Lenin’s assumption was that the collective proletariat would eventually exist in a stateless organization – but only AFTER the totalitarian state forced it on them for a generation or two. Lenin was very willing to lead that totalitarian regime, since he’d never worked a day in his life – he was, like Marx, an aristocrat. It was the aristocrats of the day that had time to dream up outlandish utopian ideals fueled by a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature from reading too much Rousseau and Hobbes. Marxism gets a bad name because it doesn’t’ fit reality and creates hell on Earth – as an atheistic system will.
Hey Harley....I was waiting for someone to respond to that statement !! Marxist principles really don't necessitate totalitarian rule. You hit the nail on the head with your comment about a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Selfish, greedy egoistic behavior is not innate, it is learned. It can be " unlearned " if different values are taught to future generations. A non-ownership society would be one where all get appropriate use of resources without individuals having ownership thereof. It works if folks aren't hung up on owning possessions and are enlightened enough to realize use of resources is all they really need to survive.
Ellis –
You seem to imply that humans are innately good but we’ve just learned bad behavior. Why would an inherently good person allow him/herself to “learn” bad behavior. It would seem to me that that would be an innately bad trait. An innately good person would not allow him/herself to learn bad behavior. And who taught the bad behavior – another inherently good human? Please explain.
Harley.....the " bad behavior " is a result of a hostile environment. The difference between humans and animals is the ability of humans to reason. I agree that the predominant human consciousness is egoistic and paranoid. ALL learned as a reaction to environmental conditions MOST of which were/are the creation of humans. It doesn't have to be that way. I believe it is capitalism that causes this mindset of greed and paranoia, hence my support of Marxist ideas. There would be no need to steal if everything were " free ". Put people in unnecessary competition with one another and 2010 Amerika is the result we get....
Oh wow, and the same 6 liberals duke it out on this site lol...
Let me let you guys in on a secret, it doesn't matter if your a liberal or conservative, the government has become so powerful now, that you are all nothing but common scum to them. The elites of the world have the control, liberal, or conservative. We need to get back to by the people for the people. Not by the government for the government. That would be the real solution.
Ellis, you’re getting tangled in your own illogic. You completely miss the point I’m making. In your construct, humans are the innocent bystanders of a capitalist system that causes them to be evil. And, if they could only be liberated from it, this utopian ideal (promised by Hobbes, Rousseau, Mill, Marx…) would finally come to pass. And, at the same time, humanity has created the capitalist system. You are caught in a contradiction. Now for the truth. If humans were innately good and not sinful by nature, then, of course, socialism, fascism, capitalism, whatever-ism would all be fine constructs – you see, the problem is not in the system, it’s in people. We are sinners by nature. As much as naturalistic humanism wants that to not be true, it cannot be disputed, even if you don’t believe the truth of the Bible. That is why no system will ever be perfect. But, reasonably regulated capitalism tends to create the most value in society and tends to work the most in concert with our natural tendencies towards self-preservation, while providing incentives to utilize resources the most efficiently. Not perfect, mind you. There is still corruption, still oppression, still unfairness. But, the best we’ve found so far. Try to tune out the silly noise around you and really think about it. You cannot make a cohesive argument for Marx. Atheism is the starting point and it is what drives the foolishness. “The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.” And I pray that is not your starting point.
You have the last word and nice debating with you…
Harley.....so you can make a cohesive argument for the existence of God ?? If God is YOUR starting point then you might as well start with the Tooth Fairie who doesn't exist either !! So this debate is really nothing more than the age old dichtomy of Good vs. Evil ?? So humans being inherently evil need to be controlled and put in their place ?? I think humans are inherently good and need to be nurtured to act altruistically, a behavior that would come naturally but for the interference of people who have brainwashed themselves to believe that they are somehow better or more worthy than people they perceive to be below them. ALL humans are equal in their right to exist. All humans are NOT equal in their abilities. Society must care for and protect those not able for whatever reason to care for and protect themselves. Anything beyond that is purely exploitation by those who have managed to gain control. In this sense Anonymous is absolutely correct. The elite have control which they have used to manipulate society to preserve and prevent change that would benefit WE THE PEOPLE. Capitalism benefits the people in control of the main mechanism thereof... MONEY. The working class, the majority of WE THE PEOPLE are not benefitted by capitalism. Capitalism is a detriment to the purpose of government which as I said is to care for and protect those who cannot do so themslves. The purpose of government is not to exploit the citizenry to preserve the status quo and benefit the wealthy. Keep God out of this for if he did exist he certainly would not allow the " evil " establishment to run amuck the way it has !!
Well, I said you could have the last word (and I eventually will), but I can’t help myself for now.
On the inherent goodness of man, I have stated it as clearly as I can. Either argue it or don’t. But, so far, you are grossly contradicting yourself. You say that man is inherently good out of one side of your mouth. Out of the other side, you talk about those who are corrupt. I will not allow you to continue to forward this senseless argument. Either man is inherently good or he is not – which is it?
But before that, if there is no God, then there is no good or evil, and all of your philosophy (and mine) is in vain. You have no warrant to ascribe goodness or badness, truth or falsehood, right or wrong to anything. You want to have a law, yet no lawgiver. You want to posit a system yet have no basis to do so. If you want man to be the measure of all things – ok. Then let each man do whatever is right in his own eyes and quit the senseless job of trying to establish the “right” system. Who are you to say that a capitalist getting rich off of oppressing poor immigrants is wrong? Are YOU now God? Nietzsche is the only honest atheist I’ve ever read. His “will to power” is the only logical outworking of an atheistic worldview. Anything beyond that must borrow the same moral capital it seeks to destroy to do so.
Harley.....I use the term " evil " for lack of a better word. The people you say I call " evil " are merely misguided and very unenlightened. This is the origin and extent of human corruption. Truth or falsehood are semantic ideas as are right and wrong. I believe in what the Chinese call the Tao minus the deism aspect. When one is in tune with NATURE one knows intuitively what behaviors will result in positive energy and which behaviors will result in negative energy. When one places faith in a God one will obtain an illusory sense of security while losing one's ability to harness positive energy and make altruistic decisions. Enlightened people with expanded consciousness make such decisions on a daily basis. Unfortunately there are too few such people alive today.You are right about it all being in vain though....it really doesn't matter anyway.
“Truth and falsehood are semantic ideas as are right and wrong.”
Is that a true statement? Are you attempting to posit a truism without the benefit of truth itself ?
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