Fear and Carnage in Las Vegas
It's happened again. To tell you the truth, we were a bit overdue. This is a good news/bad news scenario for Donald Trump. The good news is the fact that this latest little saga in the national train-wreck will divert the public's attention from the scandal that will very soon consume his presidency; The bad news is simply that the shooter who killed at least fifty people last night in Las Vegas apparently was not a Muslim.
Fifty people. The numbers are expected to rise.
Fifty people. The numbers are expected to rise.
This is a subject that I'm sick of writing about. To make things a little bit easier for my purposes, I'm just going to tip toe through the old archives and let previous things I've written over the years do the talking for me. Here are a few oldies but goldies for your reading pleasure - all still perfectly relevant:
This week, as in times past, we're having all the old, tired clichés of the National Rifle Association shoved down our throats: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." Of course they don't - and I'm seriously considering shooting the next person who tells me that. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them." Yeah right. Were you aware of the fact that gun violence in Britain has all-but vanished since that country banned all hand guns a few years ago? The same is true for Australia! In countries where firearms are difficult or impossible to obtain, the murder rate is extremely low or (in some cases) non-existent. I'm not makin' this stuff up, folks! Do the research!
March 29, 2009:
As Americans arm themselves to the teeth, the law of averages will eventually forbid such an unspeakable tragedy from not touching the lives of almost everyone. It has already happened to my family - twice. Two female cousins of mine - who never even had the joy of meeting one another - (one on my mother's side, the other on my father's) both died as the result of being murdered by men who were stalking them. Don't for a moment reflect on the passive tranquility of your lives and delude yourself into thinking, "It can't happen here". It can. It will. Whether child, parent, sibling, cousin or friend; gun violence will touch your seemingly untouchable lives eventually. Count on it.
July 20, 2012:
This is the way it's going to be from now on, kiddies. When a country has the stupidest gun laws in the western world (laws that are getting even stupider by the year) its citizens should come to expect this sort of thing. Our lawmakers have no intention of correcting this unacceptable situation. Most of them are too terrified of the power of the National Rifle Association to do the right thing. [In 1957] John F. Kennedy (one of history's more celebrated victims of gun violence) wrote a book that profiled examples of great political courage throughout American history. He wouldn't have much material to work with were he around today to write a sequel. Cowardice abounds. Get used to living in a country in ruins. This is the way it's going to be from now on.
December 15, 2012:
The tragedy in Newtown yesterday morning defies reason and common decency; but don't think for a minute that a change is going to come. Any half-witted, psychotic little geek with an attitude problem and a fist-full of dollars will still be able to walk into any gun shop in Anytown, USA and take home a handy-dandy, semi-automatic, military assault weapon specifically designed to kill an entire roomful of men, women and little children - and do it quite quickly and efficiently, too. Our lawbreakers disguised as lawmakers will still act as whores to expediency and campaign contributions. American children will still be slaughtered on the alters of greed and human stupidity. That ol' River of Blood is gonna still keep on flowin', baby! Nothing is going to change - nothing. Why bother getting so bent out of shape over the inevitable? I'm not.
The NRA types love to jabber away - like diseased little myna birds - about 'freedom'. We need to come to grips with some unpleasant realities. A society that lives in dreaded, mortal terror wondering when and where the next massacre of innocents will take place may indeed be many things - no argument there. 'Free' they are not. Let's just stop kidding ourselves here and now, okay?
January 13, 2013:
The gun crazies tell us that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to have the people armed to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. That's pretty crazy, too. The founders had a bit more faith in this new democratic experiment than that. There's a dandy reason why it was not legal for a private citizen to own a cannon back in the day. A cannon, when aimed just right, was capable of harming or killing a whole lot of innocent people. That's why they inserted the line about "a well-regulated militia" (a line the NRA always omits when quoting that amendment). James Madison and crew could not have envisioned rapid-fire, semi automatic weapons in their wildest dreams. Hell, they couldn't even foresee the Edison Wax Cylinder! That's the reason they designed the Constitution to be amendable. They had no idea what future technology had in store for humanity. A bit of amending is in order, wouldn't you say?
December 15, 2012:
The tragedy in Newtown yesterday morning defies reason and common decency; but don't think for a minute that a change is going to come. Any half-witted, psychotic little geek with an attitude problem and a fist-full of dollars will still be able to walk into any gun shop in Anytown, USA and take home a handy-dandy, semi-automatic, military assault weapon specifically designed to kill an entire roomful of men, women and little children - and do it quite quickly and efficiently, too. Our lawbreakers disguised as lawmakers will still act as whores to expediency and campaign contributions. American children will still be slaughtered on the alters of greed and human stupidity. That ol' River of Blood is gonna still keep on flowin', baby! Nothing is going to change - nothing. Why bother getting so bent out of shape over the inevitable? I'm not.
The NRA types love to jabber away - like diseased little myna birds - about 'freedom'. We need to come to grips with some unpleasant realities. A society that lives in dreaded, mortal terror wondering when and where the next massacre of innocents will take place may indeed be many things - no argument there. 'Free' they are not. Let's just stop kidding ourselves here and now, okay?
January 13, 2013:
The gun crazies tell us that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to have the people armed to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. That's pretty crazy, too. The founders had a bit more faith in this new democratic experiment than that. There's a dandy reason why it was not legal for a private citizen to own a cannon back in the day. A cannon, when aimed just right, was capable of harming or killing a whole lot of innocent people. That's why they inserted the line about "a well-regulated militia" (a line the NRA always omits when quoting that amendment). James Madison and crew could not have envisioned rapid-fire, semi automatic weapons in their wildest dreams. Hell, they couldn't even foresee the Edison Wax Cylinder! That's the reason they designed the Constitution to be amendable. They had no idea what future technology had in store for humanity. A bit of amending is in order, wouldn't you say?
February 20, 2013:
Sure enough, and as predictably as the sun setting in the western sky this evening, it is quite clear that nothing is going to change. Nothing. Two months and six days ago twenty human beings - just barely out of infancy - were slaughtered like cattle by some goddamned lunatic bearing a tiny arsenal of rapid-fire weapons. In spite of national shock and outrage and the demand that these guns be eliminated from the public marketplace, most of our representatives are going to see to it that things remain just as they are.
March 22, 2013:
In the meantime (very mean indeed) we really have to come face-to-face with the prospect of living in a nation in ruins. We need to understand that there are just too many people in this doomed country - too violent, too stupid, and too stone-cold crazy - to ever see the light of day. This is not a situation that can be cured overnight by some magical, sociological panacea. This is a condition that will take a century or more to remedy - if it is ever remedied at all. We might as well deal with it as best we can. We The People are diseased. Congress is an organized criminal enterprise. The media is beyond dysfunctional. The chickens are coming home to roost - and they're armed and dangerous.
GUNS! Guns galore, baby! GUNS FOREVER! Lots 'n' lots of little baby body parts! Little boys 'n' girls, blown to smithereens - to teeny weeny bits! Decapitated heads and limbs - severed forever by the force of the explosion from the hand of some homicidal half-wit with a serious attitude problem and way too much time on his hands. This is what happened in Newtown, Connecticut on December 14, 2012. Have a look at the autopsy reports if you think I'm lying to you.
April 9, 2013:
But what the hell! Ninety percent of the American people want to see stricter gun legislation and yet these assholes refuse to do the right thing. I can't keep emphasizing this enough, folks: Congress is an organized criminal enterprise. And it's not just the Republicans in the cross-hairs of my scope (figuratively speaking - I promise!) There are enough Democrats who are hardly blameless. They should all be held accountable for the carnage when the next massacre of innocents happens within a few months time. And it's gonna happen, make no mistake about it - again and again and again. Mitch McConnell and his fellow Republicans (not to mention Harry Reid and the conservative Democrats) will see to that. This is a fact of life that we need to grow accustomed to.
May 7, 2013
How "free" do you feel? Free as a bird? That's perfectly understandable if you've never had someone you loved dearly killed by gunfire. I have. I wonder how many of the parents of the kids murdered in Newtown didn't give a rat's ass about the "gun issue" prior to December 14, 2012. I don't know the answer to that question. What I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that they care now. They care very much. You will, too, if and when it happens to you. And as we continue down this idiotic road, the chances are getting better by the day that it will indeed happen to someone you love - or to you - or to me (YIKES!).
September 8, 2013:
Note to the rest of the world: Planning on a sweet and cozy vacation for the spouse and kiddies? Here's some sound advice you'd be smart to heed: Stay out of the this place. We here in the good ol' USA want you dead. And if we catch you in the wrong place at the wrong time you're a goner, Buster. Of course the odds are much better than fifty/fifty that you'll get out of here alive but why on earth would you want to take such a chance - particularly when your loved ones are involved? Go out and hug a tree during a thunderstorm. It's much safer than visiting the United States of America. Think I'm kidding? Don't mess with us. Stay away from here if you know what's good for you. I'm not kidding.
September 21, 2013
Wayne LaPierre, the National Rifle Association's most visible spokesman, will be going on Meet The Press for a sit-down with David Gregory tomorrow. He's always loads of fun to watch. On his last appearance on that program, the hideous twit was literally foaming at the mouth. I'm not kidding! It must be a difficult thing to make one's living defending the indefensible. How this guy sleeps at night is anyone's guess. My theory is that he's simply a sociopath. Or maybe he's suffering from acute brain damage. Whatever the case, it should be an interesting hour.
In the wake of the Newtown tragedy of December 14, Wayne said something to the effect that the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. In the case of the Washington DC Naval yard massacre you had a bad guy with a gun entering a military facility that - we must presume - was packed to the rafters with lots of good guys with guns. And sure enough, one of them was able to take the bad guy out. HOORAY! The only problem was the fact that he was able to murder twelve innocent people before he was put down. OUCH! So much for the delightful idiocy of Wayne LaPierre.
September 2, 2014:
A little news item in this morning's paper caught my attention pretty quick. There has been a stampede nationwide to purchase as many models as possible of a particular, Russian-made AK 47. You see, Obama has just initiated a ban on importing them as part of the sanctions against the former Soviet Union because of their involvement in the Ukraine conflict. As a result, they have literally flown off of the shelves at gun stores all across this ruined land. As far as anyone can tell, there are no more of the things left. That's what is known as a good news/bad news scenario.
Good News: There is one less dangerous weapon available.
Bad News: In the last week America has become just a wee bit more lethal than it was the week before. Isn't that nice?
August 27, 2015:
And please, don't give me the NRA's argument (and if they haven't used it yet, they will - count on it) that if only Alison and Adam had the sense to arm themselves, they would be alive today.
Alison Parker and Adam Ward were focusing on their jobs. They were ambushed. They were doomed. They never had a chance.
May 24, 2016:
This is not "the land of the free". If you are under the delusion that, as an American, you are freer than a citizen of, say, Norway or Ireland or France or England or the Netherlands, you might just as well go back to sleep. We live in a constant state of paranoia and despair, wondering when and where the next massacre of innocents will take place - as it surely will, and very soon. Call it what you will, just don't call it "freedom". Don't insult my intelligence, okay? We've been sold down the river to the lowest bidder. Stop kidding yourselves. Just deal with this American wasteland as best you can.
TIMELY TIP: Vodka helps. Lots 'n' lots of vodka.
June 13, 2016:
But what the hell! Ninety percent of the American people want to see stricter gun legislation and yet these assholes refuse to do the right thing. I can't keep emphasizing this enough, folks: Congress is an organized criminal enterprise. And it's not just the Republicans in the cross-hairs of my scope (figuratively speaking - I promise!) There are enough Democrats who are hardly blameless. They should all be held accountable for the carnage when the next massacre of innocents happens within a few months time. And it's gonna happen, make no mistake about it - again and again and again. Mitch McConnell and his fellow Republicans (not to mention Harry Reid and the conservative Democrats) will see to that. This is a fact of life that we need to grow accustomed to.
May 7, 2013
How "free" do you feel? Free as a bird? That's perfectly understandable if you've never had someone you loved dearly killed by gunfire. I have. I wonder how many of the parents of the kids murdered in Newtown didn't give a rat's ass about the "gun issue" prior to December 14, 2012. I don't know the answer to that question. What I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that they care now. They care very much. You will, too, if and when it happens to you. And as we continue down this idiotic road, the chances are getting better by the day that it will indeed happen to someone you love - or to you - or to me (YIKES!).
September 8, 2013:
Note to the rest of the world: Planning on a sweet and cozy vacation for the spouse and kiddies? Here's some sound advice you'd be smart to heed: Stay out of the this place. We here in the good ol' USA want you dead. And if we catch you in the wrong place at the wrong time you're a goner, Buster. Of course the odds are much better than fifty/fifty that you'll get out of here alive but why on earth would you want to take such a chance - particularly when your loved ones are involved? Go out and hug a tree during a thunderstorm. It's much safer than visiting the United States of America. Think I'm kidding? Don't mess with us. Stay away from here if you know what's good for you. I'm not kidding.
September 21, 2013
Guess Who |
In the wake of the Newtown tragedy of December 14, Wayne said something to the effect that the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. In the case of the Washington DC Naval yard massacre you had a bad guy with a gun entering a military facility that - we must presume - was packed to the rafters with lots of good guys with guns. And sure enough, one of them was able to take the bad guy out. HOORAY! The only problem was the fact that he was able to murder twelve innocent people before he was put down. OUCH! So much for the delightful idiocy of Wayne LaPierre.
September 2, 2014:
A little news item in this morning's paper caught my attention pretty quick. There has been a stampede nationwide to purchase as many models as possible of a particular, Russian-made AK 47. You see, Obama has just initiated a ban on importing them as part of the sanctions against the former Soviet Union because of their involvement in the Ukraine conflict. As a result, they have literally flown off of the shelves at gun stores all across this ruined land. As far as anyone can tell, there are no more of the things left. That's what is known as a good news/bad news scenario.
Good News: There is one less dangerous weapon available.
Bad News: In the last week America has become just a wee bit more lethal than it was the week before. Isn't that nice?
August 27, 2015:
And please, don't give me the NRA's argument (and if they haven't used it yet, they will - count on it) that if only Alison and Adam had the sense to arm themselves, they would be alive today.
Alison Parker and Adam Ward were focusing on their jobs. They were ambushed. They were doomed. They never had a chance.
May 24, 2016:
This is not "the land of the free". If you are under the delusion that, as an American, you are freer than a citizen of, say, Norway or Ireland or France or England or the Netherlands, you might just as well go back to sleep. We live in a constant state of paranoia and despair, wondering when and where the next massacre of innocents will take place - as it surely will, and very soon. Call it what you will, just don't call it "freedom". Don't insult my intelligence, okay? We've been sold down the river to the lowest bidder. Stop kidding yourselves. Just deal with this American wasteland as best you can.
TIMELY TIP: Vodka helps. Lots 'n' lots of vodka.
June 13, 2016:
Don't hold your breath waiting for change to come. That's not going to happen - not now, not ever. Every Republican in Washington (and way too many Democrats to count) are in the pocket of the National Rifle Association. I imagine the only thing that would reverse this intolerable situation would be an epidemic of random shootings of our elected representatives (with a handful of NRA spokesmen thrown in just for shits and giggles). That would change things overnight - you'd better believe it, Bubba! But it would be wrong for me to hope for such a deplorable trend in our national affairs - and I'm not even gonna go there. I'm just trying to make what I feel to be a very valid point. And besides, violence isn't my thing. It isn't your thing either, I'm sure....I hope.
If the corpses of twenty little girls and boys, all barely past infancy - slaughtered inside a Connecticut schoolroom like a barn-full of rabid pigs - wasn't enough to get these sociopathic bitches and bastards in Congress to do what is, after all, the only morally right thing to do, the mutilated bodies of nearly fifty dead homosexuals is not going to get the job done either. Call that "an educated guess" on my part. Don't forget that these nasty little regularities are the price we must pay for - ARE YOU READY FOR THIS? - our "freedom". Ain't that a riot?
****************************
Well that's it. This is now officially the worst mass shooting in the history of this doomed country. More people were shot last night in Las Vegas, Nevada on American soil than any time since the Civil War. In the short time it took me to compile this piece the numbers did indeed go up. At this hour the fatality count is over fifty-eight human beings slaughtered and over four-hundred injured, all while innocently enjoying a Jason Aldean concert. Those numbers are expected to rise before the sun sets on this troubled day in the life of Idiot Nation.
I'm going back to bed.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED READING:
Suffer Little Children
From this site, April 9, 2013
https://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2013/04/suffer-little-children.html
This one was written less than four months after the massacre of twenty little boys and girls inside a classroom in Newtown, Connecticut.
Dead-Dead-Dead-Dead-Dead.... ` |
****************************
Well that's it. This is now officially the worst mass shooting in the history of this doomed country. More people were shot last night in Las Vegas, Nevada on American soil than any time since the Civil War. In the short time it took me to compile this piece the numbers did indeed go up. At this hour the fatality count is over fifty-eight human beings slaughtered and over four-hundred injured, all while innocently enjoying a Jason Aldean concert. Those numbers are expected to rise before the sun sets on this troubled day in the life of Idiot Nation.
I'm going back to bed.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED READING:
Suffer Little Children
From this site, April 9, 2013
https://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2013/04/suffer-little-children.html
This one was written less than four months after the massacre of twenty little boys and girls inside a classroom in Newtown, Connecticut.
28 Comments:
Yep. Damn those inanimate guns for killing all of those innocent people. If somehow we could get rid of those evil guns, then evil human beings would no longer be able to kill innocent folks.
Mr. Paine will defend to the death the right of disturbed Americans to own machine guns. We can't blame the NRA and gun industry for those weapons of mass death finding their way into every corner of the country.
What possible harm could there be?
Nothing to see here. Just more human sacrifice to the benevolent "Well Regulated Militia Amendment".
It's the price of freedom, doncahknow. Except the victims are not free, are they?
T. Paine, are you implying that this maniac could have killed more people last night had he used a steak knife?
please, keep 'em coming.
Already people like Pat Robertson are blaming this on Liberals. People like T. Pain would defend his guns over the lives of his own children.
It's one thing to own guns, another to WORSHIP them.
The same people that attack those exercising their FIRST amendment rights will now bleet "shall not be infringed!!" when it comes to the 2nd.
This is 100% a result of "Trumpism". No spinning this one. This guy was a conservative, who had no business owning the weapons he did.
The truth. I am nearly 70 and I lived in DC for 41 years. The NRA is there. Congress (those bastards and bitches with no balls - both!) are up on the Hill. Guns are a disaster in the hands of idiots and crazies. I can understand hunting (but with an AK-47 or some other assault rifle?) but people? Kids barely out of infancy? Kids peacefully attending a concert? Gay people? There's this strain of machoism (and of course racism and white supremacy) that runs through this country and it's a disgrace to live here in "the Land of the Free". Is that so? Yes. It IS better in some other places in the world. So when the inevitable comment comes "... if you dislike it so much here then get out!" I've been to some of 'em and it's a fact it's less dangerous from GUN VIOLENCE in some of 'em. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
Tom, thank you for your response to T. Paine. Apparently he's more concerned with his own hurt feelings due to the NFL's response to the unwarranted killings of black men whose only "offense", really, was being black. The slaughter of dozens of concert-goers, I can only guess, was an "inconvenient truth" to his comfortable worldview.
Mr. Degan, this evil bastard could just as easily have loaded up a van full of diesel fuel and fertilizer that he collected over time and drove through to the middle of the crowd before setting off such a bomb. Do you think that might have killed even more folks? Should we make vans, diesel fuel, and fertilizer illegal too?
The fact is that evil people will continue to kill others. It's been that way since Cain got pissed at Abel. Maybe if Abel walked around with a rock too, his brother would have reconsidered his actions.
We can choose to disarm ourselves to make this job easier for those evil people ... or not.
T. Paine: "Should we make vans, diesel fuel, and fertilizer illegal too?"
Vans and diesel fuel and fertilizer are not explicitly designed and made to be weapons of "mass destruction" -- as automatic weapons are. Sure, no doubt, they can be. Any rational person would, and could, discern the difference.
You're over-rationalizing and actually being quite silly. Mr. Paine, no points for you. Tom, your turn.
"It's been that way since Cain got pissed at Abel. Maybe if Abel walked around with a rock too, his brother would have reconsidered his actions."
Cain and Abel are Biblical fairy tale creations, Mr. Paine. I hope your new-found Catholicism has taught you this.
JG, as is typical you are missing my underlying point. You cannot legislate or get rid of evil. By disarming us so that some people feel better about things will certainly not solve the problem. Indeed, it will likely embolden and exacerbate those with evil intentions.
As for Cain and Abel, their story is representative of the murderous evil that fallen man is capable of committing. Whether one believes in biblical scripture is irrelevant to this truth. (And with all due respect, I doubt there is anything you could teach me about my own faith, sir.)
Which one would save more human lives, repeal of the 2nd Amendment or banning all abortions? Would the leftist and liberals be willing to make a straight up trade?
If not, why not
Mr. Paine is correct, "The fact is that evil people will continue to kill others".
Yes, and the greater the firepower, the greater evil they commit.
The problem isn't just "evil people". Many are mentally ill and not capable of rational behavior or comprehension of consequences. Many are depressed and desperate to find a way out. (Targeting Public health care doesn't help.)
Most of us have an emotional breaking point that results in actions not usually considered. Some go to the ultimate length.
Military style weapons are not made for hunting or sport shooting. They are made because they are efficient killers of human beings. Self defense is one thing, but a 30 round magazine has never, ever been needed for civilian self protection. The same with silencers and machine guns and mortars, and rocket launchers.
The availability of so many military style weapons is directly linked to the number of deaths from those weapons.
The Holy Church of the NRA preaches the answer to gun violence is simple. We just need good men with guns. Never mind "good men" go bad, get sick, get angry, get depressed and get stupid.
Good men with guns were at the Las Vegas concert. They and their guns were useless in countering the sniping mad man with militarized weapons.
People need a prescription for legal narcotics, and still kill themselves. What makes firearms safer? What makes their owners more responsible? Good people need pain treatment and good people have guns. Death can still result.
Why blame the supplier for what the buyer does? They know their products will kill. The Holy Church of the NRA has blood on its hands the same way heroin dealers do. They know the danger.
It's easier to get a convertible semi-automatic rifle with 30 round mags than to get a drivers license or even to register to vote.
"Values", I suppose. We reap what we sow.
You really have to hand it to conservatives. Anyone still defending the WORSHIP of guns after a PREVENTABLE tragedy like this are a special breed of STUPID.
I don't care iof it offends Clucky or not. CONSERVATIVES ARE RETARDS.
T. Paine: "JG, as is typical you are missing my underlying point."
I don't think I missed it at all, Mr. Paine. Your "Militia Amendment" is undoubtedly more sacrosanct and beyond reproach than any of the other Bill of Rights -- especially the First, from what I've read from you concerning the NFL player protest to redress a very serious problem.
"You cannot legislate or get rid of evil."
Yet you, and your fellow authoritarian personalities, attempt to legislate or regulate your perceived evils in so many ways.
At political conventions they've designated out-of-the-way fenced-in areas as the only legal venue for those wishing to express their right to assemble and right to unencumbered speech, yet this is fine with you. When NFL players express this same right during the national anthem at an entertainment spectacle, again this offends you because your sense of values have been challenged and accordingly you say this isn't the right time and place for such declarations.
But any such move to regulate and restrict the sale and possession of high-powered automatic weapons, or high capacity ammunition clips, is met with tenacious and ferocious resistance from you and other conservatives. I can only assume, in your mind, that the thousands of lives lost to gun violence each year are only collateral damage in the never-ending quest to retain your right to "freedom and the American way".
"By disarming us so that some people feel better about things will certainly not solve the problem."
Here, let me put this in a vernacular that might look familiar to you: [Gagging NFL players] so that [we] feel better about [our own personal values] will certainly not solve the problem [of systemic racism in our police departments -- but we'll not get our feelings hurt]. Look, I used your own template! Make sense now?
"Indeed, it will likely embolden and exacerbate those with evil intentions."
So, let me understand you clearly. We should be satisfied with mass-killings that are only on the order of the Las Vegas massacre, because if high-powered automatic weapons and large-capacity clips are outlawed, the evil ones will surely be even more emboldened and likely to carry our larger and more frequent mass killings?
"Whether one believes in biblical scripture is irrelevant to this truth."
Your explanation is why I reject the dogma and unfounded ideas placed on Christians that humankind is inherently evil.
"I doubt there is anything you could teach me about my own faith, sir."
You shouldn't be so confident in the faith you've placed in your statement.
Majormajor, your question about abortion versus guns is an excellent one. It will, of course, go unanswered by our Leftist friends here.
Mr. Dubya, I truly understand your argument. That said, I wonder if those good people in south central L.A. after the Rodney King police trials who simply wanted to protect their families, stores, and homes would want a six-round revolver or a rifle with a 30 round magazine to defend their loved ones when rioters came calling?
I wonder about those folks in New Orleans after the devastation of Katrina would want a two shot Derringer or an AK-47 to defend their homes and families from thugs looking to loot and harm others there?
As time drags on and power and water are delayed in being restored to the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico, I wonder if folks there would like a five round pistol or an AR-15 to stop the gangs that wish to take what little food, water, and family they have left for their own purposes?
And before you all start, it is not about living in fear. It is about being prepared and taking care of your loved ones. I don't live in fear of my house burning down either, but I do have fire extinguishers under the sink and in the garage in case fire starts.
Mr. Mozart, please tell me how this evil crime could have been prevented? If we passed a law today to ban ALL firearms, do you think that evil people wouldn't still keep or find ways to get guns? With the rest of the nation disarmed, do you think that makes us more or less safe? But what do I know? I am a stupid conservative retard who actually thinks about the consequences of our decisions. I wish you enlightened Leftists would do likewise, Mr. Mozart.
Mr. Paine,
“a six-round revolver or a rifle with a 30 round magazine”
This is not the choice, is it? I’m sure we can find numerous cases where a six-round revolver or a shotgun was plenty of deterrence and protection.
It is the False Dilemma Fallacy. The same is true for abortion versus guns. This is not reality, it is pointless deflection.
We can argue hypothetical “what ifs” all day and get nowhere. RPG’s and flame throwers would keep those rioting thugs away too, right? Or maybe not. There is no such thing as perfect safety.
Back to reality. Nobody has needed 30 round mags for self defense. I have a ten-round semi-auto rifle but don’t buy into the NRA propaganda that I need more.
Please tell me how I am unreasonable here.
Let’s take your fire extinguisher example. It is wise to have them. Does that mean we also need three fire trucks parked in the driveway at all times? Do you see my point?
how this evil crime could have been prevented? If we passed a law today to ban ALL firearms, do you think that evil people wouldn't still keep or find ways to get guns?
Why is it always the “all or nothing” false choice in your argument? No wonder compromise is impossible with conservatives.
As I noted, the greater the firepower, the greater evil they commit. If we had restrictions against 30 round mags and that damn bump stock, a lot more people would be alive.
I don’t know how you can understand my argument and not get this point.
Major clucky, as soon as you CONS start caring about the kids AFTER they are born (Sandy hook?) we can talk about them BEFORE.
I also notice that you religious fruitloops never mention FERTILITY CLINICS, which destroy more embryos than are aborted every year. Is that because "proper" conservative ladies use those to help them squeeze out bigger litters?
60 ACTUAL VIABLE BREATHING ON THIEOR OWN HUMAN BINGS WERE MASSACRED. hundreds more were wounded, and tens of THOUSANDS will bear the emotional scars.
Could you stick to the subject JUST ONCE?
Mr. Paine, with a database we could have seen how many weapons a man on MENTAL HEALTH medication was buying up. By your logic we should have NO LAWS since criminals just break them anyway, RIGHT? NO ONE IS TALKNG ABOUT BANNING ALL GUNS YOU IDIOT. Are you REALLY that stupid or are you just trying to keep Major Clucky from feeling lonely?
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "Would the leftist and liberals be willing to make a straight up trade?"
and...
T. Paine: "Majormajor, your question about abortion versus guns is an excellent one. It will, of course, go unanswered by our Leftist friends here."
Don't be so sure, Mr. Paine.
Yes, Chuck, I'll see you. The United States repeals the Second Amendment of the Constitution, and at the same time Roe v. Wade is overturned.
But I'll raise the stakes of your offer. Because the Supreme Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion, then by necessity the 14th Amendment must be rewritten to apply exclusively to citizenship rights of human persons only.
Do we have a deal? My attorneys are waiting for your answer.
"CONSERVATIVES ARE RETARDS."
"YOU IDIOT"
"Are you REALLY that stupid"
Mozart
"From this day forward, comments that are off topic or obscene and insulting to other commentators will not be accepted." Unless it's from Mozart, right Tom?
Mozart,
If the topic is about saving human lives then I am sticking to the topic. If it is about making a political statement, like you have Mozart, then it is NOT about saving human lives. Since you are per James AKA WOODMAN, not the sharpest "pencil in the box", I doubt you will understand the difference.
If I were you I would not bring up the topic of "MENTAL HEALTH".
Just saying.
"Back to reality. Nobody has needed 30 round mags for self defense." ~ Dubya
I am certainly glad that this is settled then. Mr. Dubya has declared it is so.
I wonder if those Christians and unapproved-versions of Muslims would agree when ISIS came to their towns in the Middle East to slaughter them. I know... I know... we aren't in the Middle East and that would never happen here. Nobody would ever think to start shooting 500 plus people at random here in America in a single attack. Glad I have my six shooter if this guy starts walking through the mall or down the strip or in a night club shooting people though. Sure wish I had my "would-be-illegal" Glock with 15 rounds though. Might improve my odds a bit until the police arrived to help. After all, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
By the way, I am SHOCKED that this evil bastard dared to bring all of his weapons into the "gun free zone" of the Mandalay Bay Hotel. I thought evil murderers would respect those signs!
Now I agree that it is unlikely that one will ever even need to use a gun in self defense. I further agree that it is exceptionally unlikely that one will need thirty rounds in doing so, but in the case of natural disasters, riots (haven't seen any of these lately...hah!), and societal breakdown caused by such, I would like to be able to effectively do so to protect my loved ones and innocent people.
"Major clucky, as soon as you CONS start caring about the kids AFTER they are born (Sandy hook?) we can talk about them BEFORE." ~ Mozart
Yeah, Majormajor! If we aborted all these kids as unborns then we wouldn't have to morn their deaths after we got a little more attached to them as kids that go to Sandy Hook Elementary. Good Lord, Mr. Mozart. How about we protect them before and after they are born? By the way, Sandy Hook was another "gun free zone" that disarmed everyone except the mentally deranged murderer.
Oh, and for the record, this religious fruit loop also thinks the killing of human life by destroying embryos is also horrific. It is one more reason against fertility clinics in my opinion, but let's not digress.
Mr. Mozart, I wasn't aware that the Vegas murderer was on mental health medications. Is this new information? Seriously. I have not heard that yet. I absolutely agree that anyone that is on psychotropic medications or is severely depressed etc. should be put into a database that is checked with background checks before firearms are purchased. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I think most gun owners would concur.
I don't object to background checks, Mozart. I think felons, domestic abusers, and those that are mentally disturbed should not be able to buy guns, LIKE THEY ALREADY ARE PROHIBITED from obtaining. Adding information to a mental health database to help ensure this is a good idea however. I am not against common sense gun laws. It is simply that your definition and mine are severely at odds of what that is. But what do I know? I have now graduated from a "stupid conservative retard" to an "idiot".
By the way, is this how you discuss issues with those whom you disagree? Simply act juvenile and call names? Sounds like a good thing you don't own a gun! You sound really angry, sir!
Mr. Paine,
Nobody would ever think to start shooting 500 plus people at random here in America in a single attack. You mean nobody’s surprised.
And what “tools” made that so horrible? Good guys packin’ their heat felt, and were, useless. It’s interesting how the Big One doesn’t fit the NRA’s master plan, isn’t it?
We both have firearms. They don’t make me feel safer. Cars are deadlier. Whatever makes you feel safe, brother.
T. Paine, '
Thank you for proving what we already know. That some people will defend their penis extensions no matter how many people die. Nice touch with deflecting from the fact that conservatives don't care about CHILDEREN (you don't protest fertility clinics do you?) it's control of WOMEN you seek.
And thank you for telling us you think there should be no laws at all since criminals just break them. I will call Major Clucky that and more, since he invites it. Why do you care, unless you ARE him. He does have several names.
Mr. Mozart, please go back and read my last comment again, as you must have skimmed through it and therefore got everything I said precisely backwards, sir. I am really not sure why you have a fascination with penis extensions, but hey... each to his own devices.
Not that you care, but I have written letters to my senators and congressmen about Planned Parenthood, Roe v. Wade, and indeed even fertility clinics for years. The destruction of nascent human life is the exact purpose of the first two and a side effect of the third. I am not the one showing inconsistency here, Mr. Mozart. You are.
My goal is to protect all human life from conception to natural death. That means that I will continue to always champion the over-turning of Roe v. Wade and the public tax payer funding of ghoulish organizations like Planned Parenthood. It also means that I will support first responders in protecting the public. When they are not there when a crisis develops, I will fight for Americans to keep and bear arms so as to defend innocent life from those that would do evil.
You seem to think the guns are the issues. They are not. You can not eradicate evil through legislation. Restricting or banning guns only ensures that the bad guys are the ones that have the balance of power in their favor.
Why you think that restricting or eliminating guns are the issue to protecting lives and yet think it is about "controlling women" to ban the dismemberment and sucking out of the unborn's body from a woman's uterus is acceptable is beyond me.
Since you missed it AGAIN, sir. I am for laws. I want laws that ensure that the criminals, domestic abusers, and mentally ill cannot get guns if at all possible. National data bases of such people should be tied to the background check tool accordingly. I am also for laws that protect the truly innocent among us, like the unborn.
It would be nice if instead of playing politics, you would show the same consistency, sir.
For Mr. Paine and those of his ilk, the answer to less guns, is more guns; to less war, more war; and to less corporate control of government, more corporate control of government.
To achieve meaningful debate with the intent of finding common ground with a conservative, means having to relinquish rational thought and the abandonment of goodwill toward humankind and all other living creatures. With Mr. Paine, his opposing views always rely upon one or more "what ifs", or a duality of contrasting end-results with absolutely no solutions in between.
This is the unrealistic reality of the conservative mindset.
I was just in Home Depot and the worker that I spoke with was saying how he doesn't have any guns since he gets angry very easily. A wise decision.
"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them." Yeah right. Were you aware of the fact that gun violence in Britain has all-but vanished since that country banned all hand guns a few years ago?
What about the liberal run plantation Chicago? When they had the strictest gun laws in the US of A the murder rate was still amongst the highest in America Tom.
Nothing but crickets about the murder rates in all the urban areas controlled by the progs. Without strict punishment including the death penalty for gun crimes, it will never change. You wear your rose colored glasses and soft bigotry of low expectations medal proudly like a good progressive Tom.
Also, the intent of Framers of the Constitution was not to limit citizens from only having a single shot musket to protect us from tyranny like out of control Authoritarian Socialism in Cuba and Venezuela. Do we write with a quill and parchment when exercising our 1st amendment rights? amirite?
"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them." Yeah right. Were you aware of the fact that gun violence in Britain has all-but vanished since that country banned all hand guns a few years ago?
What about the liberal run plantation Chicago? When they had the strictest gun laws in the US of A the murder rate was still amongst the highest in America Tom.
Nothing but crickets about the murder rates in all the urban areas controlled by the progs. Without strict punishment including the death penalty for gun crimes, it will never change. You wear your rose colored glasses and soft bigotry of low expectations medal proudly like a good progressive Tom.
Also, the intent of Framers of the Constitution was not to limit citizens from only having a single shot musket to protect us from tyranny like out of control Authoritarian Socialism in Cuba and Venezuela. Do we write with a quill and parchment when exercising our 1st amendment rights? amirite?
Archie, Chicago is surrounded by areas with lax gun regulations - including the suburbs of that city. All one needs to do to easily obtain a weapon is by taking a ten minute drive.
Nice try, though.
So the gang bangers in Chicago need to take a ride into the suburbs to get a hand gun (i.e. there is no black market in Chicago for buying stolen guns)?
LOL Tom. Get Real.
Until there are mandatory minimums for crimes committed with a gun and juveniles can be charged as adults if they use a gun in the commission of a crime the inner city Liberal Plantations will continue to be hell holes.
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