The Great Debatables Part 2
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| Smiling for a reason |
After watching the second debate of this comically catastrophic presidential contest, I came away a bit more at ease than I had been about the candidacy of Hillary Clinton (just a wee bit, mind you). When was the last time a presidential candidate in this country threatened to send his opponent to prison? Not in my lifetime, that's for sure! When he uttered that line I was on the phone with a friend of mine. At first I thought I was hearing things. It wasn't until after it was all over, watching a rerun, that I realized that I had, in fact, heard what I only thought was an audio hallucination. This is the sort of rhetoric one would expect emanating out of some banana republic. As disappointed as I was with Ms. Clinton's nomination in July, I am ready to take the plunge for her, so to speak. If this silly, psychotic nincompoop is elected to the presidency, this country is finished. Seriously
Of course that's never gonna happen. Glenn Beck has endorsed the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. Can you believe that? Glenn Beck! (or as I always called him, "The louse that roared"). My brother Jeff pointed out on a Facebook posting early this morning that, in denouncing Donald Trump, George Will is starting to sound like Paul Krugman. John McCain has withdrawn his support for Donald Trump. Republican Speaker of the House of Reprehensibles, Paul Ryan, has withdrawn his support for Donald Trump! A pig just flew by my window. Isn't life strange?
Here is how the Donald has even further debased our already thoroughly debased culture: On page 12 of this morning's Times Herald-Record of Middletown, NY - my local paper - they quoted him by using the words "fuck" and "pussy". That has never happened before - not in that paper. This candidacy is too strange for words. I never dreamed I would live to see the day when I would be nostalgic for George W. Bush. The bar just keeps getting lower with these people.
Here is how the Donald has even further debased our already thoroughly debased culture: On page 12 of this morning's Times Herald-Record of Middletown, NY - my local paper - they quoted him by using the words "fuck" and "pussy". That has never happened before - not in that paper. This candidacy is too strange for words. I never dreamed I would live to see the day when I would be nostalgic for George W. Bush. The bar just keeps getting lower with these people.
On January 20, one Democratic administration will follow another one into the Oval Office. The last time that happened on Inauguration Day was in 1857. The end of Hillary Clinton's first term will mark twelve years of Democratic control of the executive branch of our government. That hasn't happened since the days of Franklin Roosevelt. These two nasty little facts are the Republican Party's proverbial canary in the coal mine. That birdie's as dead as a doornail - you'd better believe it, Bubba. There might someday be another conservative living in the White House, but it will not be a Republican. That party is deader than the bird. The elephant has thoroughly imploded.
They have spent the better part of the last fifty years appealing to the worst aspects of the American character and it has blown up in their clueless faces. This is something that was bound to happen sooner or later. What mystifies me is the fact that it took this long.
They have spent the better part of the last fifty years appealing to the worst aspects of the American character and it has blown up in their clueless faces. This is something that was bound to happen sooner or later. What mystifies me is the fact that it took this long.
It's interesting (and quite amusing) to see the number of GOP uberstars who are now - finally - distancing themselves from the Donald. They have come to the valid conclusion that putting party before country probably wasn't the smartest idea. Racist assaults upon so huge a segment of the people wasn't enough to sway them, but when their political careers were on the line they started to see the light. If Trump's slander against women in the now-infamous Access Hollywood tape had disparaged merely blacks or Mexicans or Muslims (or all three groups even) it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to these assholes. But he insulted women - all women - which is most of the population. It's too late for a mass mea culpa on their part. The damage that Trump has done in eighteen months to the right wing cause is possibly irreparable. There is now a ghost of a chance that the Dems will take back the House - a possibility that wasn't even in contention less than a week ago.The party of Lincoln is about to go the way of the Whigs. The grand old party is over. Isn't this fun to watch?
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
SUGGESTED VIEWING:
Here is a link to watch the second 2016 debate in its entirety....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRlI2SQ0Ueg
....if you have the stomach for it.
Here is link to watch, also in its entirety, the first of three debates between Senator John F. Kennedy and vice-President Richard M. Nixon in September of 1960:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdVHFESjTsE
This was back in the good old days when politicians were more reasonable and civilized. Notice the tone. Both men are appealing to the intellect of the American people, to the better angels of their nature. Candidates don't even attempt to do that anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRlI2SQ0Ueg
....if you have the stomach for it.
Here is link to watch, also in its entirety, the first of three debates between Senator John F. Kennedy and vice-President Richard M. Nixon in September of 1960:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdVHFESjTsE
This was back in the good old days when politicians were more reasonable and civilized. Notice the tone. Both men are appealing to the intellect of the American people, to the better angels of their nature. Candidates don't even attempt to do that anymore.
posted by Tom Degan @ 12:59 PM
26 comments
26 Comments:
Ha Ha Wikileaks revealed e-mails show the real haters--its Hilliary...hates americans. You can see the look on her face at even having to answer questions from them. Ha Ha How do you think that'll change when she's in office? She won't answer anyone then. Proof: How long didn't she open up to the press? Put that in your "progress is an open admin" pipe. And what did Wikeleaks reveal about Hilliary e-mails and blacks? How about "Professional career-do-nothings". Put that in your racist pipe and smoke it. Think about this: What will Hilliary do to the PROGRESSIVE BRAND? Already its tarnished with one of the lowest levels of trust around--nearly entirely due to Hilliary alone. Hilarious isn't it? Already progressive is being equated to "NON openess in government" and a willingness to go where even Nixon never went before. And of course the obviously progressive policy of "rules and laws are only for the little guy". I TELL YOU THAT WITH DEMOCRATS TRAINED TO APOLOGIZE FOR OBAMA, it'll CONTINUE right on thru Hilliary.
I agree with you that it's all fun to watch (although sometimes I feel like taking a shower immediately afterwards.) However, I'm still reluctant to agree with you, much as I hope you're right, that, "On January 20, one Democratic administration will follow another one into the Oval Office. "
Seems like every other day in this election, either one side pulls a rabbit out of the other side's hat, or one of the two candidates accidentally shoots off another of his or her own toes. I can't image what awful revelations still lurk in the wings. Or in the Kremlin Kollection of Krazy Kandidate News You Didn't Know.
What keeps coming to mind is that 1947 photograph of Harry S. Truman gleefully holding up a newspaper bearing the headline "Dewey Wins," right after Dewey lost a presidential election to Truman.
If I may repeat yourself, I hope you're right. I hope Trump is as done as an overcooked goose on a spit. Much of the evidence seems to be pointing in that direction. But I'm not counting my chickens yet. They still haven't hatched. And right over there, over your shoulder, under those trees off in the distant twilight, you might be able to make out a troop of Trumplings heating up an egg coddler.
Very Crankily Yours,
The New York Crank
"They have finally come to the valid conclusion that putting party before country probably wasn't a very smart idea."
I agree, Tom. The Republicans are reaping what they have sown.
The fact that the Democrats refuse to put the country above their party too will ensure that they win this election; however, it also means that the Democrat Party will also end up dying just like the GOP. It may only take a corrupt Clinton presidency to bring it into its death throes.
"The party of Lincoln is about to go the way of the Whigs."
If only that were true. I don't believe it for a second. The Republicans will be wounded, but will not die. The polls still show that slightly less than half the country back Trump, his ugly policies and thinking. Those 10's of millions of voters aren't going anywhere. Trump will disappear. The Republicans will blame Trump for this loss, but not their institutional ideology. Of course that's another lie, but it will be swallowed. These Trump voters might be the strong 3rd party we haven't had for a century and future presidential elections will be won by less than 50%.It's sick that Trump has come so close to the White House, it's even sicker that almost half of my countrymen believe the same garbage Trump does.
So what if Glen Beck endorsed Trump, the Communist Party USA has endorsed HRC?
The establishment is against Trump and that means both parties and most media. Whether they have legitimate reasons or fear loss of power is a question that cannot be answered without partisan bias. I just wish the Democrats voting for her would at least be honest about what they are getting. It seems to me fooling yourself is worse than making a wrong choice in voting. I don't doubt she'll win with all he's got arrayed against him-- not even figuring in his own self-destructive personality. I wonder though if after this anyone outside the establishment will ever run again. I mean who doesn't have things back there that they'd hate to have revealed? How many people with money calculate their taxes so it'll look good if revealed? This might just solidify the power of the establishment. They are good at knowing how to manipulate people given all the reality shows they fool viewers into think are reality. Both of these candidates are damaged, fit the fable The Emperor's New Clothes. I'd feel better about those voting for either who at least weren't kidding themselves as to who they are. I'd like to think Democrats have read the Wikileaks. And Republicans understand not all men talk dirty and brag about their prowess (or lack thereof in Trump's case where he bragged about grabbing not his ability to seduce). I still think this time we should be voting on issues... and only hope what they are saying publicly they actually mean...
I doubt if anyone here even knows a member of Major Chuck's obsession, the "Communist Party USA".
But, we all know someone who believes, like majormajor does, in admitted sex offender Trump's hateful rhetoric and constant lies. The rabid ideology of racists, Klansmen, neo-Nazis, militia nuts, and Alex Jones conspiracy loons, aka Trump's base, all find common ground in Trumpism.
And most Republicans are falling in line behind their authoritarian leader. This is not your father's Republican Party. This is an example of authoritarian followers' loyalty to a proto-fascist, anti-democracy, far Right party.
Yes they are indeed deplorable. Unfortunately many good people don't inform themselves enough to understand who's goose-stepping at their side.
Voting for neocon/neoliberal Hillary is not "party over country". It's "Country over fascism". It's a sad statement that we have to choose between a neoliberal and a fascist sex offender.
If Hillary keeps her word and refuses to join the TPP, it won't be so much a step in the right direction, but at least one less plunge into neoliberal global corporatism.
I don't trust her word, but we must understand the words of fascists indicate their true nature and intentions.
"We need Donald Trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law." - Maine Gov. Paul LePage, a Tea Party Republican
Hermann Goring couldn't have made it any plainer.
More Ya Da ya da from Dave.
It is a fact that the Communist Party USA supports HRC.
Dave's response is a bit odd since he doesn't deny the fact, but instead wants to deflect by bring out his same tired old rants that he uses on every Republican.
If it were Cruz, he would make the same claims, if it were Rubio, ditto. Check back four years and see what he was saying about Romney. Aame ole same ole
Sad that he is cutting and pasting from his own previous posts and his blog. Same ole, same ole.
Yawn!!`
Why doesn't HRC disown the support of the CPUSA as Trump has disowned the support of the KKK? I guess their support of her doesn't bother liberals, they just don't want anyone to know about it. What does that say about them?
There is no diversity in liberalism
Everyone thinks the same way about abortion, 2nd amendment, immigration, taxation, govt spending,the military, the rich, etc. Name for me a liberal or democrat leader who is the exception. You can't and you won't..
Today's Democrat Party would not have room for JFK.
Wikileaks has exposed Hillary's dirty laundry that even bleach bit won't be able to remove the permanent stains and foul odor!
No matter how much lipstick you put on Hillary she is still a fat corrupt lying pig.
I don't know what's more entertaining. Watching Trump melt down or watching his supporters desperately trying to defend him.
Major (clucky) Major spends all his time on communist websites, T. Pain plays the "but THEY do it TOO!" game, and Trump supporters show they are clueless when they say "hey, it's all locker room talk" when they KNOW they would LYNCH Obama for saying the things Trump does.
It's going to be even better saying "Madam President" in January.
"This week, liberals have been repeating their frequent claim that voter fraud doesn’t exist. A recent Salon article argues that “voter fraud just isn’t a problem in Pennsylvania,” despite evidence to the contrary. Another article argues that voter fraud is entirely in the imagination of those who use voter ID laws to deny minorities the right to vote.
Yet as the election approaches, more and more cases of voter fraud are beginning to surface. In Colorado, multiple instances were found of dead people attempting to vote. Stunningly, “a woman named Sara Sosa who died in 2009 cast ballots in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013.” In Virginia, it was found that nearly 20 voter applications were turned in under the names of dead people.
In Texas, authorities are investigating criminals who are using the technique of “vote harvesting” to illegally procure votes for their candidates. “Harvesting” is the practice of illegally obtaining the signatures of valid voters in order to vote in their name without their consent for the candidate(s) the criminal supports.
These are just some instances of voter fraud we know about. It would be silly to assume cases that have been discovered are the only cases of fraud. Indeed according to a Pew Research report from February 2012, one in eight voter registrations are “significantly inaccurate or no longer valid.” Since there are 146 million Americans registered to vote, this translates to a stunning 18 million invalid voter registrations on the books. Further, “More than 1.8 million deceased individuals are listed as voters, and approximately 2.75 million people have registrations in more than one state.” Number of this scale obviously provide ripe opportunity for fraud."
By John Gibbs
Mozart,
Prove the Communist Party USA is "NOT" endorsing HRC. When are you going to call for HRC to disavowal their support?
Holding you to the same standards you hold Republicans too, how you it now?
Crickets.
I would bet money that if the Communist Party was running the US for the last 16 years we would be infinitively better off than we are now. The next big screwup will be war with Russia and we will be living life like we are in a Mad Max movie.
Any Communist candidate would be a better president than the two we now have, and I have not even read a single word about the Communist Party!
This week, liberals have been repeating their frequent claim that voter fraud doesn’t exist.
Chuck's far Right extremist source starts out with a lie and continues with mere allegations, not facts.
Nobody knows a member of the communist party. They couldn't fill a hotel ballroom. On the other hand, American neo-fascists fill arenas in every city to hear the lies and denials of a sex offender.
Heil, Trump!!
Tom,
How come you haven't congratulated Clarence Thomas on his 25 years of service with the Supreme Court? Are you a racist?
How many liberals here like WikiLeaks? It sure is entertaining to see the corruption of Queen Hillary being exposed. Bernie must be gnashing his teeth in private while forced to kiss Queen Hillary's derriere while on his knees in public. amirite Bernie supporters?
Julian Assange may be saving the juciest emails for last. Lets all hope so.
I like the emails that show how Chelsea Clinton raised serious questions about the shady actions of the Clinton Foundation but was told to shut her mouth. At least there is one honest Clinton.
Woodsman 1954,
Thanks for providing the proof that today's American liberals are Communist!
I rest my case.
Mozart, the fact that you think I am playing the "they do it too" game proves that either you don't pay attention or that you are really confused and think that I am a progressive.
I have always and consistently been highly critical of Trump as well as Hillary, and have even stated on this blog multiple times that I will NOT support or vote for either of the corrupt liars. Indeed, it is far more often that I find progressives that try and justify the corruption, lies, immorality, or unconstitutional behavior of their chosen standard bearers by saying, "Well, XYZ Republican did it too!".
That has been my point all along. I don't care what party some damned politician is a member of, particularly if they are in the wrong. I have seen a few progressives that follow that same standard but they are damned few and far between.
And Dave, the fact that you call Trump a sex offender while refusing to acknowledge that Bill Clinton is also, with Hillary explicitly enabling him in his sexual predations, smacks of the highest degrees of hypocrisy, my friend. And just so I am being clear to Mr. Mozart, I condemn both Clinton and Trump for their behaviors towards women on these matters. I do not excuse one's behavior by pointing towards his opponent.
TP is now equating a woman being cheated on with Trump's criminal predations...
What next? She reeks of sulfur too?
Dave,
Is that the best you can do?
Still claiming that anyone who is not as far left as you, is a Nazi? Where's your proof?
Or did Herr Reid tell you? Like Romney didn't pay taxes or GHWB flew on a Blackbird to Paris? Will you ever acknowledge when your talking points are wrong?
You do know that leaked emails from Clinton state that they believed Obama used voter fraud to win in 2008, or are your news sources not including that in their daily talking points?
Woodsman,
I appreciate your honesty, will you be joining Dave in the Ballroom for Workers World dance?
T. Paine wrote: "...the fact that you call Trump a sex offender while refusing to acknowledge that Bill Clinton is also, with Hillary explicitly enabling him in his sexual predations, smacks of the highest degrees of hypocrisy..."
I'm beginning to think you're also of the persuasion that rape victims should be charged and prosecuted, also.
Mr. Paine, you'll have to explain - or at least attempt to - how Bill Clinton's indiscretions have any bearing on his wife's running for the presidency. I'm failing to see the "fault" on her part. Tell me, within Catholicism does the devoted party in an adulterous affair also have to seek absolution or otherwise be condemned to hell?
DAVE, Kathleen Willey (A Democrat volunteer!) stated that Clinton sexually assaulted her. Juanita Broaddrick has a credible claim of rape against Clinton. And yet your moral equivalency allows you to call Bill Clinton a cheater and Trump a sexual predator?!?!?
Good Lord, man! It is amazing the lengths that you will go to in order to support a political agenda or candidate. How about we firmly denounce both of these disgusting guys?
The fact that Hillary was complicit in trying to clean up the aftermath from all of these "bimbo eruptions" caused by Bill seems to put the lie to her more recent declaration that "Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported." I guess she meant that ONLY if they do not cause problems with her upcoming coronation. Otherwise she'll just send out James Carville to use Alinsky tactics to demonize, marginalize, and impugn those that were molested by her dear hubby? Remember Carville stating regarding Paula Jones, " “If you drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find." Yep. Hillary is a woman's champion for sure!
What the hell happened to this country? When did the lines between wrong and right become erased? I am thoroughly disgusted by it all. I just finished my vote by mail ballot, and it did not include a vote for Hillary nor Trump. Frankly they both are national embarrassments at least and criminals at worst. (Mr. Mozart, notice that I don't approve of EITHER loser nominee there? No moral equivalence from me!)
Less than a month before the Nov. 8 election, allegations of voter fraud in Tarrant County are under investigation by the state, prompting concern that the timing may intimidate some voters — and possibly lay groundwork for the Legislature to enact more restrictions on voting next year.
The complaints focus on mail-in ballots, which allow people to vote from their homes without any ID or verification of identity.
The southwest border has cracked open over the last year as illegal immigrants into the U.S. spiked some 23 percent, according to the latest Homeland Security numbers released Monday.
Nearly 409,000 illegal immigrants were nabbed at the border in fiscal 2016 — up from about 331,000 a year earlier — and Homeland Security officials say the increased arrests also means an increase in the number that are sneaking by them.
Worse yet, the number of illegal immigrants traveling as families, fleeing rough conditions in Central America and enticed by the promise of lax enforcement in the U.S., reached a record high of 77,674. Unaccompanied minors — those children traveling without their parents — also rose to nearly 60,000, though that was still shy of the record set in 2014.
Less than a month before the Nov. 8 election, allegations of voter fraud in Tarrant County are under investigation by the state, prompting concern that the timing may intimidate some voters — and possibly lay groundwork for the Legislature to enact more restrictions on voting next year.
The complaints focus on mail-in ballots, which allow people to vote from their homes without any ID or verification of identity.
The southwest border has cracked open over the last year as illegal immigrants into the U.S. spiked some 23 percent, according to the latest Homeland Security numbers released Monday.
Nearly 409,000 illegal immigrants were nabbed at the border in fiscal 2016 — up from about 331,000 a year earlier — and Homeland Security officials say the increased arrests also means an increase in the number that are sneaking by them.
Worse yet, the number of illegal immigrants traveling as families, fleeing rough conditions in Central America and enticed by the promise of lax enforcement in the U.S., reached a record high of 77,674. Unaccompanied minors — those children traveling without their parents — also rose to nearly 60,000, though that was still shy of the record set in 2014.
I don't think kissing a woman against her will meets the criteria for criminal offenses. Rape does. If Trump did molest women, that would be abuse but that's not proven. I don't really get why the left ignores what the Clintons are accused of doing which is not only the criminal assault but also her threatening the women and then their insulting the women and calling them names as though they sought out him.
Some of what Trump is accused of is hard for me to understand the women's role in it. So I am in a nightclub and a man puts his hand on my knee. He's absolutely gone as far as I'm going to let him go, yet if that woman is telling the truth, she let him go way further. Is there some mentality out there where women let a man go until he finally goes too far? And I've had several men try to kiss me when I didn't want it, and I stopped them. Now maybe these women are tiny and didn't have the strength for that but in a very public setting, just screeching would stop the jerk.
Trump himself said he did these things; and if he really did, I guess he considered it cool. I consider it boorish and stupid. That's not seduction. It's sexual addiction.
I just wish more Americans were paying attention to the issues at stake. This election has some big ones including the Supreme Court. To vote because you hate Hillary or you think Trump is a lout, ignores the very real issues that are ahead of us. The debates are not helping as they've gone for pop questions. A really disappointing year.
TP.
Bill Clinton, like Trump, is a swine, but only one predator is on the ballot.
Maybe Bill raped Juanita, maybe it was consensual. You and I weren't there, so we have to consider mitigating FACTS. These facts are not present in Trump's cases.
Let's discuss your NPR link at another blog that you claim supports your "blame the victim" card, but only if she is Hillary. (Now poor Melania is taking an almost word-for-word defense of her husband as Hillary did.)
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/09/497291071/a-brief-history-of-juanita-broaddrick-the-woman-accusing-bill-clinton-of-rape
In an interview given to the right-wing website Breitbart, Broaddrick said that weeks after the alleged rape, she met Hillary Clinton at a fundraiser for Bill Clinton.
Hillary Clinton allegedly thanked her for "everything you are doing in Bill's campaign." As Broaddrick tells it, she tried to leave the event but Hillary Clinton grabbed her arm and told her, "Do you understand everything you do?"
Broaddrick took that as a threat that implied she should keep quiet.
So. there's no evidence Hillary had any idea that Broaddrick was actively pursuing Bill, or accusing him. Perhaps Broaddrick's sense of guilt was the reason she "took that as a threat that implied she should keep quiet".
Again the "Trump in the room" is this; what the hell was Broaddrick doing at the fundraiser? As with her SWORN affidavit this FACT also suggests the real possibility of consent.
I know this is not an arena of comfort for you. Conservatives have a problem with ambiguity, and usually confirm their bias instead of investigating evidence. Look it up if you doubt me. Or look inward, if you care.
You accused me of "twisting facts" yet failed to cite an instance.
Now you have two significant un-twisted facts.
1. Her sworn affidavit denying the "rape". Trump victims have given no such admission.
2. "...she met Hillary Clinton at a fundraiser for Bill Clinton." WTF!! Trump's victims NEVER wanted to be around him again. And you blame Hillary for that confrontation!!
How "Alinsky" of you to condemn her without facts, and presume she knew what happened and acted on that knowledge.
JG, see my comment right beneath yours above for what "Hillary has done" regarding her husband's sexual predations.
Rain, I appreciate your reasoning and appreciate the nature in which you state your opinion, ma'am. I wish some of the other good folks commenting here would learn from your excellent example for all of us to follow on civil debate.
Here are the full accounts of the story by that bastion of conservative journalism known as NPR”
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/09/497291071/a-brief-history-of-juanita-broaddrick-the-woman-accusing-bill-clinton-of-rape
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/10/michael_issikoff_says_nbc_is_sitting_on_devastating_tape_of_juanita_broaddrick_.html
Dave, notice that Broaddrick told a friend of the assault right after it happened. She swore out her affidavit denying it because she was afraid and didn't want it to be dug up again. When Ken Starr came to her and spoke with her, she came clean on the subject and stands by it to this day. From the time it happened and she told a friend about the rape until this year, her story is consistent.
As for Hillary, she has been accused of many of Bill's "bimbo eruptions" of strong arming them, intimidating them, or ridiculing and marginalizing them. Of course she isn't going to come right out and say, "Regarding my husband's molesting, raping, fondling etc. of you, I know you will do the right thing and keep quiet about it, right?" She is corrupt; not stupid.
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